Guys! Demi and Carla...
I don't mean this in a harmful sense at all but I have to be honest with you both and tell you the truth; and this applies to both of you:
You are responding to things that I didn't even say. This makes me believe that you may do the same thing when you read the Bible and this is why get get different information from it then others do.
For example, Carla said:
So circumcision of the infant is relatively painless if it's done on the 8th day, huh.
That's not what I said at all. Where did you get that from? Please point it out to me. Did you get it from this that I wrote?:
...most don't honor the 8th day circumcision and therefore they cause unnecessary pain...
Carla, please read this again. I'm talking about studies that have led many researchers to believe that circumcision done on the 8th day is less painful. I said exactly what I meant but you took it to a completely different place. You turned it into an absolute when it was not. This must be why you get something so different from scripture than others do.
Now, tell me anything in this whole wide world that you want to tell me, but don't tell me that infant genital cutting does not seriously impair both the neurological system, and consequently the psychology, of the individual.
I think you'd have to admit (at some time in the future, perhaps) that what you wrote above is quite a sweeping conclusion. Again, many don't take the Bible very seriously, but it's only those who don't know it. Many more claim to know it than actually do; many! Just like the vast majority of Doctors, preachers simply repeat what they hear in school, and what they hear in school is largely controlled by those with "special interests".
Demi Said:
The Bible tells us that circumcision is not necessary
Not necessary for what?
Answer: For salvation.
Be careful because the scripture related to what you posted (Paul wrote it) means exactly what it says when taken in context, and
nothing more.
You're forgetting about Biblical law and Godly ordinances. You're forgetting about blessings.
Ask yourself why the U.S. became the most prosperous and powerful country in the world. The answer is easy: Law; Biblical law.
To not realize this important fact is to deprive yourself of great blessings. Law is about the quality of life; prosperity, and power, in the hands of good, knowledgable people.
Of couse this no longer applies to those who have ruled this country for the past 50+ years which is why the U.S. is failing dramatically. The party's over because of:
Lawlessness.
Law = Prosperity
Obedience = Blessing
You're doing what many do, and I call it
"glumping". This is the practice of taking a small piece of information and attaching implications to it that don't belong there. When you glump, you find "contradictions" in the Bible that aren't there because you're adding your own ideas, not letting it interpret itself.
I hope you understand that I'm not trying to make you feel bad by saying this. I'm trying to be a friend by helping you look at yourself in a more honest way, which is something we all should do.
[color:"red"]
"Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful."[/color]
Proverbs 27:6
Demi Wrote...
He said it's not the food we eat or how we eat it that makes us unclean, but the nasty words that come out of our mouths, and the NT makes it clear circumcision is meaningless.
Here is the scripture you're referring to:
[color:"red"]
"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."[/color]
Matthew 15:11
With all due respect, I could not disagree with you more. You have to take this in context or you will draw conclusions that are contrary to Christ's very purpose: To fulfill the law.
Here is an excellent commentary from Clarke that should straighten it out for you.
"Mat 15:11 - Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth - This is an answer to the carping question of the Pharisees, mentioned Mat 15:2, Why do thy disciples eat with unwashed hands? To which our Lord here replies, That what goes into the mouth defiles not the man; i.e. that if, in eating with unwashed hands, any particles of dust, etc., cleaving to the hands, might happen to be taken into the mouth with the food, this did not defile, did not constitute a man a sinner; for it is on this alone the question hinges: thy disciples eat with unwashed hands; therefore they are sinners; for they transgress the tradition of the elders, i.e. the oral law, which they considered equal in authority to the written law; and, indeed, often preferred the former to the latter, so as to make it of none effect, totally to destroy its nature and design, as we have often seen in the preceding notes. That which cometh out of the mouth - That is, what springs from a corrupt unregenerate heart - a perverse will and impure passions - these defile, i.e. make him a sinner."Christ is most certainly not talking about eating unclean foods. He is certainly not saying that the food laws are suddenly null and void, especially in the context of His life in which He came to fulfill the law.
[color:"red"]
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."[/color]
Matthew 5:18
[color:"red"]
"But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully..."[/color]
1Timothy 1:8
The law was established and well understood by Christ's audience and they certainly would understand that to take this in context would be in reference to what had been said just previous; namely Matthew 15:2 where He is speaking about
unwashed hands causing something to enter the mouth and defile you. This is very important and should clear up any misunderstanding of this verse if you read this in context.
Demi Said...
I don't think there is much point speculating when the end of the world will come. People have been doing that for centuries and they always think it will be in their lifetime or soon after. Most likely this planet will last for many more centuries. What matters, in my opinion, is taking care of the world so we can hand it on in better shape to the next generation.
Firstly, we're not talking about the end of the world. Some people think of it this way but it's simply due to bad translations. Additionally, we're not speculating. We're know the
signs of the times.
Why is it important to know the signs of the times?
Well first off, because God thinks so and that is the reason He provides them for us. Just like during the first coming when Judea didn't recoginize the time, in this coming event, most—even the vast majority—won't recoginize the time, except this time, the consequences are losing your soul. It's very serious to know the times because if you take the mark of the beast, well...
[color:"red"]
"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."[/color]
Revelation 14:10-11
Your call.
I could not agree more with taking care of the world—and let me add—each other. Christ said to occupy till He comes, and so we shall do, and hopefully with wisdom.
Demi Said...
Prophecy is so much like horoscopes or Nostradamus.
Not if you actually study it. It's very different and very important.
A very large percentage of scripture is prophecy. Let's not pick and choose but let us rather humble ourselves and see if it's
us—check ourselves—and see if we're missing something important.
Demi Said...
Its a dangerous game to start applying cryptic things to races and organizations.
It's only dangerous because mankind makes it so, and they are not cryptic if you study them yourself. Don't just take what someone else says for granted.
The scripture has assigned different genealogical groups to different tasks and positions, yet, has offered the gift of salvation to all. That's a good thing—a very good thing, for all.
[color:"red"]
"Why do the heathen (nations) rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? "[/color]
Psalms 2:1
Very pertainant question in today's world.
Carla Wrote...
Circumcision has "benefits", right? Well, if you twist it around enough, so does the placement of silver/mercury amalgam fillings. We can all see that some - actually many - people have no side effects from mercury in their mouths. None. No neurological, psychological, or physical problems.
Not so.
It's well known in science that mercury kills cells, causes mutations, interferes with a host of other body processes and it affects us all. Your conclusion that is does not affect everyone is extremely subjective...
I have family members (older) who are just tough as nails, and old as stones, and just keep on goin'! And they have mercury in their mouths day after day, decade after decade. If they should suddenly be diagnosed with cancer or something equally bad, can it be proved it was caused by the mercury fillings?
Can we prove negatives? Better to stick with real science.
Those people
are being affected. It's just that you can't see the effects of their lowered I.Q.s (because you have nothing to compare the alternative scenario—being mercury free—with), they don't tell you about their constipation or blood in their stool, they don't broadcast news about their swollen prostate, nor to they publish their erectile dysfunction. They write off their low energy to "age" and hide their depression.
Your statements are broad, sweeping conclusions based on your observation and knowledge of mercury. Science differs.
I once had an elderly woman over that swore that fluoride helped rid the world of cavities. She said, "Just look at how few children have cavities today." Hopefully, you know better.
Carla Said...
Circumcision? Well, millions of little jews have had it done on Day 8, and they went on to live long, healthy, productive lives. And because of these many successful lives, let's just ignore the ones (their number is carefully kept hidden, of course) who have to resort to the most degrading, foul forms of porno to be able to complete the sex act, because of circumcision damage. Also, because of the many happy and successful jews in our midst, let's ignore the ones who can't have sex at all, because a chunk of the glans came off with that filthy foreskin. I actually know of a couple of jewish babies who died from the trauma of that holy symbolic and health-giving act - but since this is such a teensy minority, let's ignore that, too. The greater good was served by the circumcision of all.
Let's not ignore anyone. Let's rather find out why this is happening. Let's look at the equipment being used and who is using it. You'll be surprised to find—as in most situations of this type—it's all about human error and negligence, not the procedure itself.
Again, you're making broad, sweeping, glumped conclusions that if applied to other areas of life, would lead to the elimination of all cars, houses and telephone poles as well.
Let's look at the details of failures and be shocked to find out how many pattererns there are and how easy it would be to make a change. It's our fault, not circumcision's.
Carla Said...
And a greater good was also served by all those millions of teeth stuffed with mercury amalgam - because prior to the development of composite filling, countless children and adults, too, would have had to have all or most of their teeth extracted.
Not so.
There are much safer alternatives and have been since the beginning of dentistry. Yes, I said since the beginning of dentistry. You certainly don't know that there have been 2 previous amalgam "wars" in the United States alone. These problems have been known about for a long time; and well established. The media has neglected to report this information, however, because placing amalgams serves the interests of the owners of the media.
Carla Said...
Gotta look at BOTH sides of the issue!
No, you need to look at
all sides of the issue, and considering you're assuming that there were no alternatives to amalgams for some time in your previous post related to "gumming oatmeal", you may only be looking at 2. There have always been alternatives so the scenario you described above has never been necessary.
Demi Said...
I believe education is the only way to enlighten people to alternatives in the interest of the child.
I believe true education (knowledge) is the key to many things, but who's going to do the educating?
The unfortunately fact is that education fails for the same reason the following statement is true:
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."—Edmund Burke
Too many people claim to have answers (knowledge) and want to be educators only to find out later that they didn't. People often hold on to an idea because it feels good to them, not because it's been proven good or beneficial. And then, throw in the evil people of the world—those without conscience—who would rather subvert the whole world than have an ounce of respect for another's rights.
It's a complicated situation, but without the proper information, nothing will be accomplished, which is where the world is today, and again, all for the beneit of the banking cartel, the [color:"red"]"merchants of the world"[/color], as the Bible calls them.
I appreciate both of your comments but please read posts carefully and examine what it really being said. Otherwise, we waste a lot of time making errata corrections which benefits no one.
I have a deep sense of responsibility when saying things and making posts because I'm responsible for what I say, and I'm aware that what I say affects other people. What you say does as well. Because of this respect for my fellow humans (and animals), I answer questions with research and solid information and I'm not afraid to say those beautiful forgotten words, "I don't know". I wish more people had this sense of responsibility.
And please, don't just read the Bible, study it. Doing so will clear up numerous misunderstandings in every area of life.
Good day!
