Doctrines That Seem To Divide?
In watching ministries on the Christan Channel there are those who believe and teach a pre-trib rapture mid-trib rapture or a post-trib rapture. Sometimes one may change over to another camp change their mind but also there are those who are convinced in their doctrine and there they stay.
It's always an interesting debate and sometimes on TV they have debated each other and even if one did not convince the other the debate was still good.
Also different ministries on Christian TV can have some differences in their way of interpreting but mostly agree on the basic's of Scripture itself.
I watch all of them and take it all in and there are also some Ministries too that have differing ways of seeing the biblical Hell. In watching the Ministries, alot of them already have their mind made up but they are all interesting to watch.
The Greek word “Hades” is translated as “Hell” in many English Bibles such as the King James Version.
And the Bible is clear on a resurrection of the dead those in the graves it says in scripture.
Hell being cast into hell or the dead being cast into the lake of fire. That's the debate between ministries it seems.
Not in if there is a hell or not but interpertations & translations in of when and where?.

This is an interesting look of both the sides mentioned in Doctrines That Divide on the Afterlife.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEcHe81wLA8

When Jesus comes back we all will be united in the word.
But, Many Christian churches hold vastly different views on key Bible teachings; of course and I see that playing out on Christian TV. I read this Pastor link above use to be a Baptist before and changed his mind on the teaching he once believed in.
Plus Pastor Arnold Murray has a teaching about the blotting out of & the consuming fire as well.
And I do agree with him on that too his teaching on verse to verse of why.
And Analogies and Parables and bloted out.

God the Consuming Fire/Hell Fire 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdNGNZqIEAs

In studying the Scriptures this just makes more sense to me.

Plus was reading on the Revelation 6:8 and The Revelation 20:14 thing and there is some disagreement on the word used in meaning of they don't see “Hades" as a fiery place as in hell cast into hell in use of language meaning there and there reasoning on it is on this site.

http://www.thetruthabouthell.net/#1

Is The Devil In Charge Of Hell?
I don't think he is the Bible say's wait alittle while and Satan will be no more. Turned to ashes from inside and WHO ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY is God.
What is Satan's Fate?
The penalty of sin, in the Court of Heaven, is simply DEATH -- not burning and torment forever and ever and ever, ages without end!
Jesus paid the penalty in full for us by his death.
The wages of sin is death so this makes more sense based on that.
Othwise He didn't pay the fine in full.
Yet we know He did.

http://triumphpro.com/satans-true-fate.htm

Like in Malachi,4:1-3
consuming away into smoke and ashes.
Will they perish?
Or will they burn forever in Hell?
I think they will be consumed, blotted out and perish.
That's how it reads to me in Scripture.
Like for Pastor Arnold Murray and others who see it like that too.
It will eventually end and be all made new again.

Doctrines that Seem To Divide?
The first death death of the flesh.
The second death death of the soul.
And body...

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Satan said You will not surely die” (Genesis 3:4).
You will live forever.
The Bible says only God alone is immortal.
And can give the gift of life.
Choose life or death and God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him will not Die/Perish but have everlasting life.
It's perish or life!
That's the choice.
Only Satan say's we will not surely die that we are immortal without God.

Revelation 20 - Part 3 - Rev 20 Millennium Time - Pastor Arnold Murray Omegacube SEM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k79awjXMS68&feature=relmfu

They will exist no longer forever and ever.
I don't think we serve any other God that will not wipe away every tear from every eye and there will be no more pain suffering and death and people screaming constantly billions of years in suffering torment all that the former things will pass away be blotted out.
It will exist no longer forever and ever eternally dead.
It's about death perish consummed into ashes no branch or no root.
Nothing left.
We serve an awesome God!

Lets see... Revelation 20 it talks about the rest of the dead did not live again until that's resurrection...
And it talks about blessed and holy the one having part in the first ressurrection.
That's resurrection..
It talks about the dead and ressurrection they appeared and the dead being judged thats the dead.
And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hades in the Literal Translation and the correct translation which must mean the grave because there is the dead in it as this seems to be talking about the dead and ressurrection which should be no surprise to us because the Bible says there will be a ressurection of the dead.
so death must represent mortality dead.
and Hell/ Hades must represent the grave.
So the lake represents the second death.
And they must have been raised from the dead for judgment.
So this must be talking about Death/ Resurrection/Judegement/ then The Eternally Dead the second death.
That makes more sense to me and many others out there too.
More so then the eternally tortured with tortured screaming agonizing horrible billions of poor lost souls shrieking for billions of years to pay for one lifetime of sin.
God only paid for it once by death on the cross in full the penalty for sin but for them...
It will take billions and billions of years in fire to pay it off and they never could, could they.
That's the divide that others see to be true.
That's why they disagree see it differently.

Why Even Have A Resurrection At All?
Why do we stand before God like that?
Because according to the Bible we should fear Him that can destroy both Body and Soul in Hell.
You need a body a soul to be destroyed in that form.
The Wicked will enter into Hell in bodily form the whole body will be cast into Hell and you can't have that without a resurrection.
Real live people not just spirits will enter into Hell in bodily form so they have to be resurrected first be as they were in life and then be Judged for their deeds and then will go to hell.
That is Hell.

Job 34:14-15,
14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Thats what shall happen.
Ashes to Ashes dust to dust.
Like in these verses.

They Will Be No More As God Is A Consuming Fire!
God is very clear on this as in not even a coal left to warm yourself at nor fire to sit before and when God is done they will become as stubble the fire will burn them and none shall save them from the unquenchable fire and nobody is going to put it out either it will consume into dust like Satan will also be consumed into ashes from within.

Job 30:19
He hath cast me into the mire, and I am become like dust and ashes.

Ashes to ashes dust to dust.

Isaiah 47:14-15
Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it. Thus shall they be unto thee with whom thou hast laboured , even thy merchants , from thy youth: they shall wander every one to his quarter; none shall save thee.

This is what God says.
This is God's word.

That seems to be pretty defined to me . No fire to sit in front of and no coal left doesn't sound very hot or warm to me. It sounds like the fire has burned out.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
As mentioned in Revelation 20 verse 5.....
sounds like they were not really alive until they were resurrected and the second death is final.
And what about the new heavens and a new earth where there is no more pain or suffering or crying or torment anymore?
If there will be no more pain or crying or torment to be anymore in the new heavens or the earth then where would the always burning tormented wailing people be?
If not in the home of the righteous in the new heavens and earth.
So where are they?
Where did they go and why won't we see them anymore?
Where are the former things?

If as written..
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isaiah 65:17
and
2 Peter 3:13
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness.

God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying as in
Rev 21:4
No more sounds like no more to me.
So if the new heavens and the new earth is going to be a happy place then where are all the crying burning people going to live?
If they are still alive that is.
But I think the former things will all pass away it will be all gone and it will all be made new.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/Golden/sgdb-chap_14.htm

A beautifull new creation a new place.
And in the second death it must eventually be final, as.
Because they could not be alive in the new heavens and new earth as it will be a new wonderful place to exist in.
As written about.
So if they are not there where else is there to go as it looks to me like the former is gone.

It Seems Straight Forward To Me...
Hell - The Rich man and Lazarus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8Z46xeZTEc

Their Worm Dieth Not ...

http://www.helltruth.com/q-a/their-worm-dieth-not.aspx

In the Bible it says only God has immortality but we get back to the tree of life and only God can give the gift of living forever. Planted by God in midst of the Garden of Eden (Paradise).
Denied to Adam and Eve but where is the tree of life?
In Paradise.

God said he will put an angel to gaurd the tree of LIFE, so that they don't eat it and become immortal live forever.
Genesis 3:22
But God say's only to them that overcome will God give to eat of the tree of life. So life forever for those who do not overcome or is it perish.
The tree of life will be in New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.... .
The Holy City ..
(Revelation 21:2, 22:1-2)
Will those in hell get to eat from the tree of life and become immortal or will they eventually perish be consumed will not be. The tree of life will be in the Holy City the Bible declares.
But the marvelous Tree of Life will be planted once again "in the midst of the paradise of God.
God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked.
Should mortal man be more just then God?
We got only two choices Life or Death.

I don't want to be misunderstood so I will say it again and people can look it up for themselves and decide if they agree or not. I

Some people will say but thats not fair that there is a place such as that. He created us He made us so He has that right even though he desires us to choose life instead. It's so serious that He gave his life as a ransome for us. He wants to save us instead to follow after Him.

Yet He did not prepare it for us.

Jesus a Ransome for many.
Jesus Saves!

RE: Ashes Final doctrines that Divide/ Lynnmn

In respect to the originator of this post, Lynn, I totally disagree with many, MANY of your previous and continual posts. You have been told by a few of us, "Do not believe everything you see on the Internet." Yet you continue to post things, then turn around and give 'your opinion'.

According to the Holy Bible, (yes, it does matter which one is closest to it's original interpretation), King James Version and New King James Version are the top choices.

In both you find that Hell is a real place of fire and brimstone.
Heaven is a real place of eternity, eternal life with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. (Please read Revelation 21].

AND Hell is definitely real, and lasts forever. NO, the fire does NOT go out, and YES, Satan is very much alive both now on earth causing terrible havoc. The Lord tells us Satan is the prince of the power of air. His time is almost up, where he will be thrown into the lake of fire, along with all those that have died and refused the Lord's 'free gift' of salvation. Every person on earth must make that decision for them self. "The soul that sins it shall die."

The fire spoken of in Hell, is not like a burning fire in chimneys or on a gas stove. It is more like an continual heat so intense, perhaps as an electric stove. IMO, others have different descriptions. But they come down to the eternal intense heat that NEVER goes out,(ie lake of burning sulfur).

Don't forget God is not inside our time-frame. He is Creator of all things. He never had a beginning nor will have an end.
However, Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (I believe you vaguely mentioned this).
Unbelievers stand before the Great White Throne Judgment seat of Christ. They will all go to eternal damnation. They have refused to accept the Jehovah God's Son, Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Everyone gets that choice, (opportunity). (See Romans 1:18--32)

Satan, is a spirit and very much alive! He is the spirit of the antichrist. "Satan comes across today as 'an angel of light', the Bible tells us. WHY? Trying to lead God's people astray. The same thing he did to Eve in the Garden of Eden. Lucifer (Satan), deceived Eve and Adam, telling them they will be as gods! Satan is and always has been a LIAR! "Satan is the father of lies."

Regarding your post referring to the rich man and Lazarus. (Luke 16:19-31), it never says this is a 'parable'. As several commentaries have indicated, other 'parables' start out by titling the message, 'The Parable of the ......'
This is a 'Teaching' by our Lord Jesus to warn us against going to Hell. Hell is mentioned more times in the Bible than Heaven. WHY? The Lord Jesus is warning us, 'Wake up and Come unto me....and I will give you life and that more abundantly."

And when the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of earth--Gog and Magog--to gather them for battle. ..... In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the City He loves. But fire came down from Heaven and devoured them. And the devil, who deceived them, was throne into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:7:10) The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life was thrown in the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:7-15.)
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I would like to add, to those of you reading this, please Come to Jesus and LIVE eternally, in Heaven. He stands knocking on your hearts door. He will not turn you away if you come to Him, with a 'broken spirit and contrite heart'. He is not willing that any should perish. Please COME TO JESUS! Bible verses below explain what you must do to become a child of King Jesus.
"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in Him will never be put to shame."
---Romans 10:9-11 ~~

[-- --**We haven't seen Lynn for some time. Perhaps 6 years? This post is for everyone. Lynn, if you come back, please prayerfully read these verses, asking our Lord Jesus to open your eyes. Of course, no one wants to believe in an eternal suffering, especially in fire, Hell. However that is exactly what Jesus taught. He came to Earth to conquer death. And HE DID! He rose from the grave victoriously. He still had to die first. We all will die one day. Each of us has the choice to either choose Jesus and live eternally in Heaven with Him and all the saints who have accepted His death on the Cross for payment for their sin. "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" [Romans 3:23]. OR go with the flow of the world, not believing in an eternal Hell and eternal Heaven. That is the MAIN reason Jesus even came to Earth,--- to DIE. To save us from eternal separation from G-D. Jesus is God, if you can receive it. He said, "I and My Father are One" (John 10:30). It doesn't matter what Pastor Arnold Murray, Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn, or many other television evangelist say. GOD IS TRUTH! We will close with an article form IN TOUCH, "Will There Be Eternal Punishment?" ~~

~~~Will There Be Eternal Punishment?
--(Please Read / ~Revelation 20:11-15~~/ -'JUDGMENT at the Throne of God~)

Many people don’t like the idea of eternal punishment for the ungodly. Some people think God shouldn’t have created the world at all if He knew we were going to sin. But can you imagine never having been born? Others think that the heavenly Father shouldn’t have created man with the ability to sin and to do evil. But would you want to be a robot with no choices and no free will?

Our Father decided upon a different alternative: He created human beings with a free will. In this way, man can receive love from the Creator and choose to glorify Him in return. God gave us the right to decide between love or hate, obedience or disobedience. He understood that choice meant people would sometimes suffer, but that they would have the potential to grow in character. Then God can shape us as we grow in love and submit to Him—and in the process, we will be conformed to His likeness.

God knew free will was the best option for His created beings. What will you do with yours? I pray that you’ll understand the sacrifice Jesus made for you on the cross and choose to receive His love today. ~~
--IN TOUCH~
Revelation 20:14 "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."~~ IT IS A REAL FIRE! Please accept Jesus' death on the Cross for the forgiveness of your sins. Confess your need for Him to come into your life, and He will save you. [Please read, believe and follow Romans Chapter 10 verses 9 thru 13]. JESUS LOVES YOU, THAT IS WHY HE DIED. Take the Bible as a personal love letter to you, from Yahweh, YHWH, our Covenant-keeping God. "Come to the Father through Jesus his Son." ~~