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But the OT lovers love that cut and it is easier to convince them to walk into a burning building than to explain that in Christ circumcision has no meaning. Their ears and hearts are slammed shut.

I think you are right, Carla. I'm giving up on this discussion. I've given my opinion and if any one stumbles across this thread then it is here for them to see and evaluate for themselves. I'm not the kind of person who feels it necessary to always have the last word.