Just an interesting site/link to add to the board.
((( Smiles )))

Does God Exist Scientifically?
Does God exist or not? God either exists or He doesn’t.
Your opinion of this issue determines your entire worldview.

Check out the scientific evidence here and start to examine your opinions and presuppositions about everything!
Some say that 21st century science and technology has removed the need for God…
You might be surprised by the evidence!


http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/does-god-exist-scientifically-aajc-f4b6.htm

Does God Exist Philosophically?

"Does God exist philosophically? A person's foundational worldview is based on how they answer this question.
Everyone at some point in their life has pondered this ultimate question - many of us ask it several times and from a myriad of approaches.
Investigate some of the sites below in your quest for the ultimate truth.

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/does-god-exist-philosophically-aajc-f4b6.htm

Is The Bible True?

Is the Bible true? This is a crucial question to answer.
If it can be proven that we have an instruction book from God, then we should truly investigate its contents.
Take the challenge and weigh the evidence yourselves.

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/is-the-bible-true-aajc-f4b6.htm

The short answer to post 1 is no, and linking to a list of creationist fallacies and lies isn't going to change this fact.

Anyone who is honest with themselves will tell you that religion is belief -- be it monotheism, polytheism, agnosticism, atheism, pantheism, Gaia, etc etc. This is because empiricism (measuring reality with what our 5 senses can detect) just can't go there, and the basis of science is empiricism. While science can tell us much about physical reality, religion and philosophy are distinctly separate entities. It wasn't always this way and IMO we've gone a little too far with our faith in what empiricism CAN explain, but unquestioning religious belief -- especially when it conflicts with reality -- isn't helpful either.

Post 2: Is the Bible true?

IMO the Bible contains many truths, particularly in the New Testament. Jesus had much to teach us about living as loving human beings. Other religious texts also have much to teach us about this. In taking any of them literally, people miss out on deeper symbolic messages that they contain. A 2,000 year old text written for a different culture living a different way of life contains some anachronistic rules that can cause problems when people today try to stick to them.

While there may be some interesting points to discuss here, I don't think this topic has much to do with creationism or evolution and is probably more suited to the Bible forum. I'm going to make a guess, though, that while people are avoiding having to deal with evidence for the geologic column and against a global flood, they'll quite happily flock here to a thread which has little to do with science.

He also talked a lot about hell.

Was He wrong?



You are getting mixed up in "watcher theology": Kabbalistic doctrine that Christ refers to as "the doctrines of demons".

This is not a game. You had better do your homework and stop picking and choosing what "truth" is.



You must be referring to the talk-origins style of lying that includes calling fossils "transitional" simply because they contain a mosaic of similar features.

http://urlbam.com/ha/M002A

New Earth Old Earth.. ((( Smiles )))

I follow the path of an older earth myself.
Like Russ I believe.

When was " the Beginning " ?

The Genesis account opens with the simple , powerfull statement...
" In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
{ Genesis 1:1 }

Period.
Now when was that exactly??
God didn't say.
Actually God left alot of the details out and told us pretty much all He believes we really need to know.
The big chemistry lab in the sky..
Whatever God needs to do and how much ever time it took..
Or didn't take, it's all beautiful marvelous powerful stuff.
God is not a human with human limits and restrants.
Like us.

The Creator says:
" Raise your eyes high up and see.
Who has created these things?
It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name.
Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing."
----Isaiah 40:26

The more I 'raised my eyes high up' to peer at the vastness,
the complexity, and the beauty of the universe,
the more I appreciate the work of the intelligent Designer
who brought all of it about and establised the laws that keep it all together.

As defined in the Bible, "faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration
[or, convinceing evidence," footnote] of realities though not beheld."
----Hebrews 11:1

There definately is more to this life a spirit world realities though not beheld.
Things that exist our eyes do not see but it's out there.
Things to come prophecies to be fulfilled..
And hundreds of prophecies have been fulfilled in the past and in our day and we can have complete confidence
in the fulfillment of Bible prophecies that pertain to future events.
That it will be fulfilled.
Thats what I believe.

The Final Events of Bible Prophecy..
The End Time Events..
The comeing of the Universal Jesus.
----Video----

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-236603451790404943

Mark Of The Beast..
Probation closes..

http://www.finalevents.com/Event3/verses.asp?p=O

I believe that Russ also believes.

In the last days mankind will be able to destroy the earth.
Have the capability to do so like never before.
As the Bible has predicted.
God will put a stop to all that.
He's comeing after thoses who are destroying the earth and we should be greatful for that because he said if he prolonged his comeing to long.
No flesh would be saved.
We live in highly dangerous times..
Full of deception and the comeing of signs and wonders..
It's comeing the new world order and the mark of the beast.
Russ see's that too.
Wether you see it or not, Linda..
This is for anybody who wants to know whats comeing.
So they can prepare for the final event.

Stay Well
Lynn

Plus I think of.. (((( Smiles ))))
The Miracles That Occur Every Day Feel Natural....

The difference between a miracle and a natural event is only it's frequency."
In other words, a natural occurrence is merely a repeated miracle that we have become familiar with.
It is a phenomenon that consistently duplicates itself, following a pattern...
When it becomes a " stale miracle" we call it " natural."

The riseing of the sun every morning is no less miracles then was the splitting of the Red Sea as the Jewish people left Egypt..
For if the sea were to split every day at noon, we would call it a natural phenomenon.
And conversely, if the sun were to have risen once in world history, we would dub it a miracle...

The heavens are declaring the glory of God ;
and of the work of his hands the expanse is telling. "
{ Psalm 19:1 }

In recent years scientists and engineers have, in a very literal way, allowed plants and animals to instruct them.
They are studying and mimicking the design features of various creatures- a field known as biomimetic--
in an effort to create new products and improve the performance of existing machines.

In the book of Job it says:
Job 12:7..
But now please ask the animals and they will teach you;
and the birds of the heavens and they will tell you.
8: or speak to the earth and it will teach you;
and the fish of the sea will recount to you;
9: who of all thoses does not know that Jehovah's hand has done this ?
10: In whose hand is the soul of every liveing thing,
and the breath of all flesh of man?
11: Does the ear not try words ? And the mouth taste food for itself ?
12: With the aged is wisdom ,and understanding in the length of days
13: With Him is wisdom and strength, He has forethought and understanding.

Not only do we have an awesome universe..
We have an awesome human body too!

In the time it takes you to read this sentence, your amazing body will have analyzed, synthesized, restructured,
and utilized thousands of nutrient molecules.

It will have split proteins, burned sugars, pumped minerals,
enchanged gases, and transferred electrons.

Thousands of chemical reactions occur each second in your body, every second of your life.
Just imagine the energy required to proform this bio- chemical magic that powers your human machine!

On Brain Power....

The human brain consists of more than 100 billion neurons (nerve cells)
through which the brain's commands are sent in the form of electric pulses..
Theses pulses travel at more than (250 mph), creating enough electricity to power a light bulb...

The brain consumes more energy than any other organ, burning up a whopping one- fifth of the food we take in..
It is estimated that the mental capacity of a 100-year old human with perfect memory could be represented by computer
with 10 to the power of 15 bits (one petabit)...

At the current rate of computer chip development, that figure can be reached in about 35 years..
However, that represents just memory capacity, not the extremely complex process of thought creation and emotions..
But consider this: for all the complexity of the brain, you still have only one thought at a time...

Make it a positive thought...

Factoids:
One-quarter of the brain is used to control your eye.
We actually see with our brains, with the eyes basically being cameras..
You're born with 300 bones, but when you get to be an adult,
you only have 206..
The rest of them let Innate (in-born intelligence) fuse them.

The body knows what it's doing.
Expecially if it gets the right kind of help it needs..
To stay on track.. To stay well...
Remember..
The Bible tells us that life on the earth at all levels is the product of intelligent activity.
And it tells us that the Source of all this intellgence
activity is Jehovah God, the Creator of the universe.
{ Psalm 36:9 } { Revelation 4:11 }

Do not let the fact that we have to endure in a world filled with suffering dissuade you from believeing that there is
a Creator and Designer of the earth and all life on it.
Keep in mind two fundamental truths..

One is that God did not design the imperfection that exists all around us.
The other is that our Creator has good reasons for temporarily permitting it.
Jehovah God has permitted evil to exist for a limited time only in order to settle once and for all the moral issues
that were raised at the time when humans first rejected his sovereignty.
{Genesis 3:1-7} {Deuteronomy 32:4,5} {Ecclesiastes 7:29}
{2 Peter 3:8,9}

Life can be real hard at times but if we keep this in mind.
We can somehow make it through this life.
Keeping ones focus on what really matters which is the truth.
This.

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace.
In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
John 16:33

And thoses words are encouraging indeed!

Plus, ((((( Smiles )))))

Science Is The Language Of God and We Are Studying His Thoughts When We Study Science.
Thats why I don't discount science as I got lots of DVD's on scientific findings though many made by Christians.....
Creationist's though with many different non Christian speakers on with their viewpoints......
and they Christians are not afraid of science either....
as TRUE science IS the Language Of God. Lots of Christians study it as God created it!

Interesting question, Lynn.
------
Science Teachers Violate NSTA Standards of Open Inquiry By: Patricia L. Nason, Ph.D.
*
In an editorial titled “Creeping Passivity” in the May 2007 issue of Journal of College Science Teaching, Ann Cutler, a college teacher at the University of Indianapolis, expresses concern over the lack of participation by her freshman students. She writes:

The classroom was silent when questions were asked or uncertainties probed. Inquiry activities developed unusually low decibel levels even when students were encouraged to work with one another. These young people didn’t seem to know how to advocate for themselves when they couldn’t negotiate a concept on their own.

According to Dr. Cutler, she and her university colleagues have come to the conclusion that this behavior is a result of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, a government policy that they think has led students to believe that they are not intellectually responsible for their own learning.

But is the government responsible for lackluster learners? Perhaps Dr. Cutler and her colleagues should look a little closer to home. Face it—college students who are apathetic, don’t want to think, and do not participate in discussions or classroom activities have been taught to not think.

During the normal 12 years of science training, our public school system has succeeded in turning these students into mindless vegetables. Teachers are taught to stop conversations and squelch questions if they: 1) refute evolution; 2) question “scientific” support for evolution; or 3) refer to issues related to intelligent design or creation science. If inquiry is only relevant when it supports evolution, students who think creatively and express those thoughts will feel that they and their observations are unintelligent. How better to stifle active participation?

In the book National Science Education Standards published in 1996 by The National Academies Press, scientific inquiry is defined as:

The diverse ways in which scientists study the natural world and propose explanations based on the evidence derived from their work. [Scientific] inquiry also refers to the activities of students in which they develop knowledge and understanding of scientific ideas, as well as an understanding of how scientists study the natural world.

The phrase “diverse ways” implies free thinking, examining, questioning, probing, and analyzing. If there is only one answer allowed, then true inquiry cannot take place. The “system” is eradicating a fundamental pillar of scientific education—the freedom to ask questions, express ideas, and question theories. Students are not being allowed to think, examine, question, probe, analyze—when open inquiry is banned, the "creeping passivity" observed by Dr. Cutler is the natural result.

The irony is that science teachers themselves have recognized the importance of open inquiry in the classroom. The first point of the National Science Teachers Association (NSTA) Position Statement on The Freedom to Teach and the Freedom to Learn (adopted by the NSTA Board of Directors in July 1985) states:

As professionals, teachers must be free to examine controversial issues openly in the classroom. The right to examine controversial issues is based on the democratic commitment to open inquiry and on the importance of decision-making involving opposing points of view and the free examination of ideas. The teacher is professionally obligated to maintain a spirit of free inquiry, open-mindedness and impartiality in the classroom. Informed diversity is a hallmark of democracy to be protected, defended, and valued. (Emphasis added.)

How can it be that the national leaders in science and science education who support “evolution only” in the classroom are the same advocates who espouse "free inquiry, open-mindedness and impartiality" in the classroom?
--
Can they not see the inherent contradiction in encouraging students to think, but only if it matches what they've already been taught? It is time we regard scientific inquiry as open debate; otherwise, we will continue to foster a nation of lazy thinkers.

With the return of the fundamental right to openly consider the controversial issues of creation and intelligent design and examine evidence that refutes evolution, our students can become active participants in the learning process. They will utilize higher level thinking skills and begin to apply what they are learning, leading to thoughtful examination of scientific issues and, ultimately, new theories to be tested. It is absurd to talk about education, democracy, freedom, and scientific knowledge without taking open inquiry into account.

God has bestowed on us minds that can consider and understand.
Dr. Henry Morris explains in the tenets of scientific creationism:

Although people are finite and scientific data concerning origins are always circumstantial and incomplete,-- the human mind (if open to the possibility of creation) is able to explore the manifestations of that Creator rationally and scientifically, and to reach an intelligent decision regarding one's place in the Creator's plan.

The current scientific establishment and education system are not willing to open up discussion for fear that the human mind will come to conclusions that are contrary to evolution. The results of excluding other ideas will be that we produce a nation of non-thinkers. It behooves us to encourage honest and open inquiry in the science classroom so that scientific inquiry reaches the potential it aspires to—that of observing the world around us and searching for answers.

The NSTA Position Statement ends:
Ultimately, the freedom to teach and to learn will exist only if a continuing effort is made to educate all Americans about these freedoms. Professional educators must set an example in their communities that illustrates respect for schools and classrooms and a free marketplace for ideas. An appreciation for the concerns of parents and other members of the community who legitimately disagree must be respected. We, as professional educators, must show our faith in the freedom to teach and learn that honors opposing viewpoints.

May it be so.

Yes a mosaic of similar features.
And God created them all and recent discoveries have been small and wierd in the variety of God's creation.
The complexity and the beautiful colors of design confounds the mind.
When we stop to look at the things in the world around us it is pretty amazing isn't it.

But yes, I agree with Russ.

You must be referring to the talk-origins style of lying that includes calling fossils "transitional" simply because they contain a mosaic of similar features.

http://urlbam.com/ha/M002A

Biologists have estimated the number of species to be somewhere between 3 million to 100 million but only the designer knows for sure.
God has revealed himself in the creation that he has made.
It is beautifully complex.

But on the subject of Science and the Bible,"they have listed statements on this page that are consistent with known scientific facts.

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

It's a must read site and we don't have that much time on this planet left to put our faith in Mysticism or in Illumination or Gnosticism or Evolutionism or Spiritualism our life span is limited here we have just enough time to decide for ourselves.
God gave mankind the right to rule over this planet and we messed it up.
But the day will come where God is going to go after those who are destroying this planet and put a stop to these so called New Age beliefs but first God will let them have their hearts desire under the Universal Christ to come which they are waiting for.
The ???????????. Translated Antichrist.
The teaching of evolution in schools is a precurser to that event. You think I'm wrong???
Everyone will be a believer then.
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

We live in trying times indeed!

I would not say, 'God is science', but I do say we see God in His creation.

-Nature Reveals God's Power
Even a child can see stars at night. But who has the power necessary to put them there?

A small reflection of the power of our Creator is seen in the thousands of stars shining in the night sky. Galaxies are millions of stars packed close together. And billions of galaxies fill the universe. The amount of power displayed in the heavens is overwhelming, if we take the time to look up at night and think about it. This reveals God's power at the cosmic level.

Everyone can appreciate sun-power. The sun lights our days so we can see nature all around us. (Even a blind person can feel the warmth of the sun.)

Our sun and other stars are bright because they radiate energy, both visible and invisible. Some of this energy radiating from the sun is needed, directly and indirectly, to power all life forms on earth. Some of the other energy, also very powerful, is harmful to life.

The energy that is useful to life is a very small part of the spectrum. That part is also the part that we can see. Due to our Creator’s laws of physics, visible light is the best energy for the chemical reactions of life. Unlike high-energy radiation, such as x-rays and gamma rays (which harm living cells), visible light enables human eyes to see, plus it powers plant growth, the foundation of all food chains on earth. Even the energetic behavior of little bugs ultimately depends on sun-power.

God's power extends from wonders great and small that we can observe in our awesome universe, like the sun and stars (which look small to us, yet are huge in actual size).
--ICR

-Laws of Nature and Nature's Lawgiver
-By: David F. Coppedge

What is meant by laws of nature? Presumably it is the business of science to uncover them. Yet few people, and few scientists, ever unpack the term. Many would be surprised to know that there are deep controversies among philosophers about the meaning of "laws of nature." Creationists have the high ground in this arena.

Empiricists (those who think science should restrict itself to observable phenomena) describe laws of nature as nothing more than patterns in experience. The weakness in this view is that it provides no answer to "why" the patterns always hold. It also provides no confidence that the patterns will continue into the future. Necessitarians, by contrast, want laws of nature to be normative, not just descriptive: not just that all cannonballs do follow a parabolic trajectory, but that a cannonball must follow a parabolic trajectory. In the words of the T-shirt cartoon, "186,000 miles per second: it's not just a good idea; it's the law."

But that leads to a conundrum. Who, or what, enforces the law? Secular scientists are averse to postulating some agent that "makes" the cannonball follow a parabola. And who gave the law? Most of them threw out the concept of a Divine Lawgiver in the 19th century. Necessitarians still help themselves to the belief that laws are normative, but empiricists ask on what basis they do so. It sounds like a metaphysical belief or argument from analogy. We don't see laws making something happen; we only see what happens. Why should nature be law-like at all?

Some philosophers escape into word games at this point. They portray laws of nature as useful generalizations, whose strength is measured by their explanatory power or predictive potential within our best theories. Scientific realists, however, are reluctant to give up on the epistemic credentials of laws of nature. They want to hold on to the belief that laws of nature are really "out there" in the world, and that science "discovers" them.

The only warrant for laws of nature that are truly "out there" and not just "in our heads" One is belief in a personal, rational, consistent, freely-acting, transcendent, powerful God as described in the Bible. We can defend this on two grounds. One, because the laws of nature are contingent--they could be other than what they are. Gravity could decline as the cube of the distance, or by any other rational number. For life to be possible, the laws had to be selected with precision out of an infinite range of possibilities and coordinated with each other.1

Second, our own rationality presupposes a rational source. Why would particles become scientists? Why would matter seek understanding? The human propensity to find laws of nature bespeaks a Lawgiver who created that propensity in us.

The Divine Lawgiver, therefore, is not a metaphor, nor a placeholder for ignorance; He is a logical necessity for science. The Lawgiver described in Scripture has the explanatory resources to resolve the conundrums of philosophy and bring sense to the discussion. "Fear God, and keep his commandments" (Ecclesiastes 12:13)--it's not just a good idea; it's the law.

Reference/

We have seen some materialists imagine a multiverse to escape this obvious conclusion. See my article "There's Only One Universe," published in the December 2006 issue of Acts & Facts.
* David Coppedge works in the Cassini Program at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. The views expressed are his own.

Cite this article: Coppedge, D. 2009. Laws of Nature and Nature's Lawgiver. Acts & Facts. 38 (9): 19.