Why when that's part of the life cycle? Do you think the indigenous peoples throughout Pan-America had any less respect for life than you propose? They revered, even worshipped animals on an unparalleled level and, yet, they had no qualms whatsoever with taking an animal's life for consumption. These were not brutal barbarians but nations infinately more in tune with the land than we, of the Modern Era (who conveniently wiped them out), can ever comprehend.




***Yes, the indigenous peoples were definitely more in tune with nature than we industrialized peoples. There is also a tendency of some of us white people to see only the sweet side of these peoples, as if there is nothing positive about civilized peoples whatsoever. There were some indigenous peopls who tortured and burnt their enemies at the stake(same as some white people did to their enemies way back when), so let's not deify the aboriginals. I could go on & on here, but that is not what this debate is about, as far as I can tell.


The fact is we're here, this is now, and we have a brain, and we have a responsibility to do our level best on a daily basis to reduce unnecessary suffering. I don't know about you, but one has to look at the entire lifestyle, not just one section of it: the indigenous people not only ate "meat", they hunted it with lowtech methods and hauled it home and gutted it and cooked it over a wood fire, etc. A total natural happening. That is hardly how meateaters nowadays consume their "meat" - there is such a giant disconnection going on. ***




Because people are raised in different upbringings with different values. If, like most of us, you've been raised by the Western mould of "democratic" tryannay and corporatist rule, then you've probably been oversensitised by the singlemost successful progadanist tool: television. All one sees is animals, animals, animals on T.V, forcefeeding an exessive pseudo-love and oversensitivity to the animal kingdom (not to mention, a misguided and misinterpreted one -- one which our more humane predecessors, the Native Americans, would find laughable).


*** I don't live my life or choose a diet by what the Native Americans find laughable or laudable, and I hope you don't either. As I stated above, this is now, and we are us, and we have to do the work in front of us based on our own perceptions rather than looking to some allegedly perfect race of people living in some allegedly halcyon era - which is a crock. It was then, as now, a time of ignorance.


I want to respond to your opinion that we are "oversensitive" to the suffering of animals because we are taught to do so by TV. If that were true, then everyone would be a vegetarian, wouldn't they. Second, there is more pro-meat propaganda than pro-animal propaganda on TV. Third, I did not come by my "oversensitivity" to animal killing and cruelty through television. I was raised on a farm in the 1950s, and we did not even have electrical service until I was much older, never mind TV. I saw the small-scale slaughter of animals done as humane as it could have been, and I hated it at that young age - whereas other children around me were bothered not one whit. So, it wasn't some kind of liberal, urban propaganda, okay?

Similarly, you could take 2 children from the same urban, 2005 family, show them animal killing, and one will go vegetarian, and another will not. You made it sound like we are all born a blank slate, and nothing more than what our society imprints onto us thru TV. ***


You know what I find more inhumane than slaying and killing an animal for the productive purpose of consumption? Unproductively, needlessly, and brutally maiming a cat by cruelly ripping out its sex organs, mutilating its genitals, and tearing out its claws, then forcing it to live indoors lifelong (which always results in maddness). These acts are often done by the same people who claim they love animals.


***Agreed! I got kicked off an "animal rights" forum for making that point over and over. (respectfully). I was appalled by the responses to my posts - which, by the way, were almost word for word what you said, above.***


Many of these fake "animal lovers" have turned to vegetarianism and, in their ignorance, do more harm to animals than good, by trying to make their own cat a vegetarian! I consider such torturous acts more inhumane than killing an animal for consumption, personally. I'd rather be killed an eaten than endure that horror! If I had to choose between living as a rabbit in the wilderness who will one day be shot down by an arrow, roasted over a fire, I'd much rather choose that than living in a CAGE by someone who thinks (s)he loves me.


***Cats don't live in cages. One of our cats is wild, and begs to go outside to kill mice, which he does, in large numbers! He is so healthy! This does not bother me a bit. He is an ANIMAL and cannot help it what he sees & does. And I hate animal neutering - ugh!

I, too, if I had to choose between the two choices above, maybe being killed after living in a state of freedom from birth is preferable. But it never is the either/or situation that we want to make it***
.

Not killing an animal does not necessarily equate kindness. Unfortunately, often people mean well but just don't .. get it. As is often said, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. That's not to suggest that I think abstaining from meat or claiming to love animals makes you a bad person, nor that I'm pointing fingers at anyone, but I think the vast majority of said people fit into the category I've detailed in the previous two paragraphs.


***Unfortunately, yes - but not as many animal-rights people or vegetarians are as simplistic as you present us - as I hope I have adequately shown, above. I have actually tried to convince some vegans weakened from a dreadful raw-food-only diet to at least eat some cheese & eggs, even meat, for a while to invigorate themselves. God places us in these situations to show us, I think, that nothing is as simple as we want it to be.

You took a swipe at democracy and I don't know what your deeper motivations are, but I have no longer any use for democracy, either. It is a form of govt. useful under certain limited situations and circumstances which I will not mention here.

I am still a supporter of animal rights and vegetarianism, while not doubting your own wisdom or denigrating your own perceptions. ***