Originally Posted by Lynnmn
The Subject Of Information... ((( Smiles )))

Life is very complex as written above as...
Absolutely.

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More complicated then scientists ever anticipated like even within a cell...
It's just amazing how it all works and communicates with each other totally amazing it works at all..
Everything that goes on within the human body...

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Why even the blind can see with inner intelligence thats hardwired into our genes...
Smiles, frowns, anger, sadness and disgust ect...


As for the blind, it's known as hardwired now as...
The new study, which will be published in the January 2009 issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology,
suggests that's not the case, since blind individuals would be unable to carry out such observational learning..

Both studies suggest an innate ability to express certain emotions with gestures and facial expressions.

Though they always try to explain things away like..
"It could be that our emotions, and the systems to regulate them, are vestiges of our evolutionary ancestry
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If you have a link on this issue regarding blindness, I'd like to take a look at it.

[quote]I just don't buy it..
That it's just that easy to explain theses things away..
Even as you wrote..

[quote]Self-replication does is not the only requirement for evolution/natural selection. R2 knew this, and...


And even if this is true, which I really don't know if it is or not that..

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Self-replicating molecules have been synthesised in the lab.


It's a lab..
Someone is manipulating putting mixing together things..
And God physically formed us, and used them too anyway..
Even if not the total picture still..
All the chemicals and elements cells and molecules doesn't really mean that much to me anyway as...
what ever is found in the earth or in life itself..
We are created/made out of anyway.

" Out of Dust"
The World Book Encyclopedia reports; " All the chemical elements that make up liveing things are also present in nonliveing matter ."
In other words, the basic chemicals that go to make up liveing organisms includeing man , are also found in the earth itself.

This harmonizes with the Bible's statement:
" And Jehovah God proceeded to form the
man out of dust from the ground."
-- Genesis 2:7..
This is actually a fact set that's been used to create a lot of confusion. Life needs the elements in order to exist, so it only makes sense that they should be provided in the environment.

Some have put a spin on these observations and maintained that the elements arrange themselves and become alive. If the elements had such a property, it should've been observed by now; instead, a universal tendency of decay is observed - just the opposite.

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To me it's the complexity that really matters..
Not the details...
Is that what your kind of saying above???
Of what really matters the most of all.
The subject of information is important in more than one way when discussing origins.

Nobody has discovered an unguided process which produces language, syntax, context, or alphabets. Information on these levels, whenever the source is known, comes from intelligence; so the only sound conclusion one can scientifically draw is that the rule is absolute. Things that are observed to be universally true are assumed by systematic science to be universally true, even in cases where they are not observed. It is assumed the interior of the moon is subject to gravity, although we haven't been inside the moon to find out.

There are those who maintain that somehow, some way, (although they cannot describe or even imagine a way around it), we need to believe exactly the opposite. Well, that's unscientific. It's blind faith. They have an enormous burden of proof, and no means of meeting it.

A commonly told story about "Shannon information", (a favourite of antitheists because, when spun, it leads to a nonsensical conclusion) actually acknowledges the unnaturalness of information. When receiving a sequence of letters, the more surprising a letter is, the more information it is said to contain. For example, if you receive 'c', then 'a', you aren't surprised if 'b' or 'r' or 'p' follow. You are surprised if 'a' follows, or 'z'.

Now the whole premise of the story is that information is equated with surprise value. Nature isn't supposed to produce surprises. Just the opposite. When chemicals are combined in a lab, they are always expected to produce the same results. All people rely on this principle, scientists perhaps a little more heavily than others.

But everyone relies heavily upon it. How would we walk if gravity surprised us with random fluctuations all the time? We couldn't operate or even build machines if the laws of nature were surprising us with continual revisions.

Surprise is antithetical to nature. Yet we're asked to believe that nature produced more information than anyone knows how to describe. A strand of DNA contains many "surprises", and even the simplest, most whittled-down, lowered-bar version of a cell proposed by evolutionist "scientists" has to have a good amount of DNA, and has to have it organized and functional.

This is but one issue. I don't know of a way to put everything about information into a compact "nutshell" summary. Obviously nature is not capable of producing high-grade information, but this mostly applies to abiogenesis. There's also the issue of informational entropy which leads to extinction rather than improvement. And one could explore the feasibility of language origin conjectures, and even conjectures about the origin of communication in any form.

But without figuring out what information is, it's fairly difficult to discuss any of these things. Hence the attempts to nip such discussions in the bud by misdefining the term(s). My first post was primarily intended to establish a firm idea of what information is in the mind of the reader. From thence, it is easy and natural to commence investigating.

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I can see you have studied all this for along time now..
I have some too, but mostly I have excepted what looks to be the truth to me from the things I have observed and the things
I have researched and looked up..
And more then looks like, but for me it is the truth..
Thats why I believe what I do to this day..

Stay Well
Lynn
Thanks. It's fascinating stuff, in a lot of ways. One of the beautiful things here is that one already knows a lot more than one realizes about information. We learn a set of fundamental rules when we learn to talk, and although we don't go around reciting these rules we all still remember and recognize them.


Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth

"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case
http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm

"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson