Hey Carla,

Thanks for writing back.

I see what you're saying and thanks for pointing out how you look at the post I made earlier.

Here are some thoughts in response.

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Hi. It was your post #4579 that led me to think that you don't take much note of the SUFFERING of animals. Words (used by anyone) such as "valuable" or "created in God's image" are, to my thinking, pure abstraction. Pain and extreme fear & panic are not abstractions - not yours, not mine, not that of the animals people use and eat.

It is not outside the realm of possibility that there is a race on some other planet (God never said there wasn't) that is so highly developed compared to us, that they would consider us the same way you consider earth's animals. Now, if those ultra-beings were to do to us, what we do to our animals here, would the mere fact of the aliens' superiority take away our pain of being led to slaughter, hearing the cries of our fellow beings, smelling the blood of those that were just dispatched? I can't fathom the horror & panic these animals experience. It would be as immense as my own.


I understand what you mean by abstraction. I believe it's important to consider that these phrases or concepts like "created in Gods image" are profound in many ways. They are also very moving if you understand the implications and believe that they are true.

Far be it from me that I should come into this world that I did not create, possess this body that I did not design, and live under physical laws I did not fashion and appoint myself supreme commander.

I rather view myself far beneath truth, looking up and learning always. I see order and intelligence in the design of things and constantly realize that I cannot build or design these things. Whether a tree or a living creature's body, it is—in fact—God's technology, God's expression, God's creation. The most beneficial thing I can do in light of these things is be quiet and listen.

In this humility, I had prayers answered supernaturally, I had my life saved by someone I couldn't see, and I built a world view carefully and methodically through study and research, learning about this stuff that surrounds me, whether it be good or it be evil.

I'm saying all this to say that in my carefully-crafted world view, the things you ask are easy to answer but require long explainations, explainations that are best served up from the best source for answers I've found: You guessed it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />: the Bible.

Life and the world are not simple. We live in a very complex system that supports us physically, yet the emotional interactions between are also designed to be self-balancing. Yet in considering your question about how life on another planet would view us, the answer is easy. If they knew truth, they would know we are valuable to God and peace would be a natural outcome.

Unfortunately, our judgement is clouded and our world view is skewed slightly and then eventually driven completely off course because there are indeed evil people in the world who deliberately lie, steal, and kill. There is a reason they are here but I won't go into that just now.

As we become more mature children of God, we are expected to become less—what I call—emotionally based. This means, we make decisions based on logic and reason and not impulses or feelings. This does not mean that we cannot feel. In fact, I have a saying I keep from years ago goes like this:

"Our emotions are like children. If we carefully raise them, train them and discipline them with wisdom, when they grow up, they will be our friends."

As I learned deeper concepts about the world, I saw them expressed in great depth the Bible, and this is part of what initially drew me to it. For this reason, if we had aliens that were much more advanced then us come and visit, if they obeyed God's laws, it would be a very good experience for us. If they didn't obey His laws, it could be catastrophic.

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I support freedom of religious belief, so I don't know if I should debate with you too much, but what Tom had to say is more up my alley. I have thought about this deeply for years, and I just can't go along with the idea that Almighty God would expect all people, all over the world, from the day of Christ's birth, to the present day, to go to the Bible for advice on everything that they do. Personally, some of it makes a lot of sense, but some does not.


Every answer we want concerning our lives is not in the Bible. God expects us to become mature and to be able to take personal responsibility for our lives. This means drawing conclusions and studying the world to learn more.

Information about what herb to take for what ailment, for example, is not in the Bible. There is a lot of information we are expected to learn over time ourselves. Unfortunately, we don't practice what we have learned all the time. A relationship with God is personal, very real, and will naturally manifest changes in your life, including personal responsibility, and it will help you gain control over your life in ways you never considered. The Bible is at the core of understanding this relationship.

I understand what you said about some of it making sense and some of it not. However, most people who have actually read the Bible carefully and/or studied it will tell you that they draw much more information from it each time they read it. This has been my experience and it really is truly amazing.

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Also, you said it was the blood we should be careful to not consume, and that is why special methods of preparing meat are necessary. Well, isn't that from the Old Testament? Why would any Christian need to follow the rules & regulations & laws of the Old Testament? With Christ's sacrifice, all that was made null & void. "It is not what a man puts into his mouth that defiles him, but by what comes out."


The food laws are from the Old Testament and they are still in force. Yet, Christ delievered us from the consequences of breaking the law.

We're living in amazing times seeing prophecies from the Bible actually being fulfilled. One of these is that the mainstream church has gone astray and forgotton what the Bible actually says. I'm amazed at the fact that, even though our lives are governed by principles that we can learn more about in the Bible, the vast majority of Christians don't read it. I am amazed (yet not) by this, as it was predicted that this would happen at this time.

Christians have a difficult time understanding some principles in the Bible for several reasons:
  • They don't study the Bible.
  • Many of the newer translations have been deliberately changed to confuse Christians and mislead them.
  • The true conclusions of modern science are being slandered in order to oppose Christian beliefs. True science is in perfect harmony with it.
  • So many people are on drugs or consume bad foods that degrade their ability to comprehend deeper principles.

It's important for Christians to read all of the Bible and not leave out the parts that they don't get or understand or like.

For example, the law was given "...forever..." yet people are compelled to say that the law was done away with because on it's face, it doesn't make sense to them. Of course, understanding all this stuff takes time, so a little more study would expose that the law hasn't been done away with. Only the consequences of breaking it have been.

It's important to study and be sure to get an old Strong's because the newer ones have been malicously altered. I've seen it myself. There are evil people in the world with their heart set on slandering Christ and the Bible for their own profit.

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Anyway, while I think that this is a good discussion, it really might be more suitable if it were placed in a separate thread, because this is supposed to be about PROTEIN - about which I have some thoughts & questions, so I will follow this post up with another. Thank you, Russ.


Thank you, Carla. I'm a pretty easy-going moderator/administrator although I have well-defined views because I've done my homework. I'm easy-going because I'm not interested in quashing anyone's views. Express away. And if the views are not on topic, great! Some of the best conversations in life begin in a completely different context as have many relationships.

A good relationship may begin as a business relationship at work, develop into a friendship, a romance and eventually lead to marriage and finally, children. How cool is that?

My philosophy for governing this board is the same as our government used to be (before the powers-that-be corrupted it). Leave the people alone, let them be personally responsible for their actions, let them say what they will and do what they will (so long as it doesn't quash the rights of others), let them keep what they earn and all will be the better for it.

Perhaps one day, when you see the Russian army invade the U.S. One day when you learn about how the Arabah (the desert) surrounding the dead sea has become two bodies of water and the dead sea supporting life for the first time in recorded history, or when you see a mark required on the right hand or forehead for all the people of the world to buy or sell (called "biometrics"), or you see the new colorful currency that will be distributed in the U.S. and other countries of the world, you will think back to what some guy on a forum once said about these things and wonder if the Bible really is what it claims to be.

All the best and thanks for caring enough to converse! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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