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This also confuses me some, I know he is the son of god and the chosen one, but what does he mean by this? Worship GOD and not him or both????
The passage, in context, actually says:
"As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, ‘Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’ And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.’" Mark 10:17-18
By wrenching such statements out of their immediate and overall contexts, the impression is given that the Lord Jesus is actually denying he is God since he denies that he is good in the sense that God is good. The questioner's logic goes something like this:
God alone is (absolutely) good.
Jesus is not (absolutely) good.
Therefore, Jesus is not God.
In Sanskrit, tulsi means literally "the incomparable one" and has been revered since ancient times. Tulsi, the holy basil, is said to have grown at the site of Christ’s crucifixion and is associated with St. Basil’s feast.
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Also, let us look at Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.'
In Sanskrit, tulsi means literally "the incomparable one" and has been revered since ancient times. Tulsi, the holy basil, is said to have grown at the site of Christ’s crucifixion and is associated with St. Basil’s feast.
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I am so confused right now, this is all rushing me at once being I am just a newcomer to this Bible stuff and what Jesus says. I don't mean to offend any of you in here who think the trinity, but why does he say God is Good and I am not Good? This is too much lol. I love it I hate it, what is real and what is not.
In Sanskrit, tulsi means literally "the incomparable one" and has been revered since ancient times. Tulsi, the holy basil, is said to have grown at the site of Christ’s crucifixion and is associated with St. Basil’s feast.
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I am so confused right now, this is all rushing me at once being I am just a newcomer to this Bible stuff and what Jesus says. I don't mean to offend any of you in here who think the trinity, but why does he say God is Good and I am not Good? This is too much lol. I love it I hate it, what is real and what is not. Not meaning to clash with the Christian folk on here - but I believe God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are 3 distinct beings. (One in purpose but separate).
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Joined: Aug 2008
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I am so confused right now, this is all rushing me at once being I am just a newcomer to this Bible stuff and what Jesus says. I don't mean to offend any of you in here who think the trinity, but why does he say God is Good and I am not Good? This is too much lol. I love it I hate it, what is real and what is not. Not meaning to clash with the Christian folk on here - but I believe God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are 3 distinct beings. (One in purpose but separate). Not a christian! I believe what you believe! I just started studying the bible and history for my soul and to be aware of what happened or was said to have happened. I don't go to a church nor claim a religion, but I believe in GOD and truly respect Jesus for what he did here on Earth and the purpose he served. I think God is the MOST high though, creator of all and nobody who ever walked the Earth is near equal. I think thats what this verse means I quoted, just wanted to know others thoughts on here without offending anyone or their beliefs. Jesus was telling you here that God is the most high and he is not even euqal! Said in the bible, his own words.
In Sanskrit, tulsi means literally "the incomparable one" and has been revered since ancient times. Tulsi, the holy basil, is said to have grown at the site of Christ’s crucifixion and is associated with St. Basil’s feast.
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Hi Sean, As far as I understand it (which is limited and human), Christ wished to withhold His TRUE divinity as the Messiah, until it was time for Him to reveal this in His public life. Even when transforming the water into wine at Cana, He made it quite clear it was not yet His time - "They have no more wine." Jesus replied, "Dear woman, why do you involve me? My time has not yet come." Jesus' mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you" (John 2:3-5). I believe that as the Son of the living God, that He came not only as a living sacrifice, but also as an example of humility! He experienced our humanity, our grieves, our sufferings and even wept at the death of someone close to Him. Showing once again, His human side. He prayed, He fasted, He was even baptised. He showed His humanity in the Garden of Gethsemani and He showed it on the Cross. He has intimately experienced our fears and our sense of abandonment and the bitterness of the flesh. Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He allowed Himself even to be tempted by Satan and mocked by man. If anybody ever felt hated, scorned and treated with contempt/mockery? They ought then to consider Jesus': Psalm 22:6-8: But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by men and despised by the people. All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads: "He trusts in the LORD; let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him."
He put Himself in the position of receiving humility and torture at the hands of those He could have cast down by His very power and had they known whom they were truly torturing and finally crucifying, they would no doubt have died instantly of horror! Nobody therefore can ever say "God doesn't really understand". He understood and understands us intimately both as Father and through His Son Jesus Christ.
I believe Sean by this statement:
"As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, ‘Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’ And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.’" Mark 10:17-18
that it's highly possible Jesus was setting a very clear example not just to this man, but to us all over being careful not to "assume" goodness about anybody. As only God Himself can be the final judge. Since this man did not know at that time, whom Jesus truly was (unless He had Himself been inspired by God to do so), then he could not confidently claim Him as being "good" or in fact ANY man. Unless He had been inspired by God and had this revealed to him.
John the baptist knew exactly who He was before the others, because he was inspired by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit revealed this to him:
John 1:26 "John answered them, "I baptise with water; but standing among you - unknown to you - is the one who is coming after me; and I am not fit to undo the strap of his sandal.
John 1:29 The next day, he saw Jesus coming towards him and said, 'Look there is the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. It was of him that I said, "Behind me comes one who has passed ahead of me because he existed before me".
Matthew 3:14 - John tried to dissuade him, with the words, "it is I who need baptism from you, and yet you come to me! "But Jesus replied 'Leave it like this for the time being, it is fitting that we should, in this way, do all that uprightness demands. Then John gave into him.
Remember He did not begin His public life until the last 3 years of His life. It was later that He revealed His divinity and authority over life, death, demons, disease and even the elements, but also in the transfiguration. Where He dazzled His disciples by revealing Himself as He truly was!
Matthew 17
Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.
This was revealed to only three disciples.... why? Did Jesus do this to only a certain few to keep the account of this private until the time was right?
Christ was the Son of the God, but also proclaimed later, when the time was right, that they were ONE IN THE SAME!
John 10:30 I and My Father are one.
John 14:6 Jesus said I am the Way; I am Truth and Life.
To this day, many heal and cast out spirits in HIS name. He is both son of God and God!
John 14:7,8 If you know me, you will know my Father too. From this moment you know him and have seen him.
Philip said, "lord, show us the Father and then we shall be satisfied. Jesus said to him, Have I been with you all this time Philip, and you still do not know me?
'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so how can you say "Show us the Father"?
Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”1
“Immanuel” literally means: “God with us.” See also Matthew 1:23; Jesus was “God with us.”
God revealed Himself to us through His son Jesus Christ! The Father is in Him, and He is in the Father.
Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
Daniel 7:13-14: “There before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven . . . He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”
Matthew 2:11: “On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him.”
Matthew 14:32-33: “And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’”
In the Jewish culture, only the ONE true God can be worshipped!
Had they been mistaken or had blasphemed, Christ would have corrected them.
John 8:58-59: "‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.”
“I am” -- which was the same title used for Jehovah God in Exodus 3:14
Which is why they picked up the stones to kill him. For proclaiming Himself as God - the "I AM".
John 10:30-33: “‘I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’”
John 8:19: “You know neither me, nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”
John 20:27-29: “Then He said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.’ Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’"
Revelation 21:3 God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.
1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of Myself, but He sent Me.
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He (Christ), ye shall die in your sins.
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill Him (Jesus) {For their perceived blasphemy of Jesus calling Himself God}, because He not only had broken the Sabbath {customs, as they understood them}, but said also that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
Colossians 1:14-15 In whom (Jesus) we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn {Inheritor} of every creature
Colossians 2:9-10 For in Him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost (Spirit) hath made you overseers, to feed the Church of God, which He hath Purchased with His Own Blood.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jesus Himself forgave sins and allowed Himself to be worshiped as only the one and only true God can.
Mark 2:5-12 When Jesus saw their faith, He said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, He saith to the sick of the palsy, I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Savior, be Glory an Majesty, Dominion, and Power, both now and ever. Amen.
Titus 1:1-4 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; But hath in due times manifested His word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My Kingdom is not of this world: if My Kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should be not delivered to the Jews: but now is My Kingdom not from hence.
Philippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made into the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death on the cross.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am (I existed).
John 18:5-6 They answered Him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed Him, stood with them. As soon then as He had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
Hebrews 1:2 in our time, the final days, he has spoken to us in the person of his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things and through whom He made the ages.
Hebrews 1:3 He is the reflection of God's glory and bears the impress of God's own being, sustaining all things by His powerful command; and now that He has purged sins away, He has taken His seat at the right hand of the devine Majesty on high. So He is now as far above the angels as the title which He has inherited is higher than their own name.
Hebrews 2:10 For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom (Jesus) are all things (created), in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Spirit);
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) LORD:
Three distinct persons within ONE God. Very hard for any of us limited human beings to fathom and perhaps this is one of those mysteries that we will not fully comprehend until after we pass from this earth into eternity. And are we supposed to fully comprehend the mysteries of God until it is revealed to us in a way that we will be able to truly understand and perhaps we ought to accept some things that go quite beyond our understanding.
Even in the beginning of creation, God refers to Himself as "Us".
Genesis 1:26 "Let Us make man in Our own image, in the likeness of ourselves".
I am unsure how this can possibly be denied or mistaken in face of so many testaments throughout the bible.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Hi Sean, As far as I understand it (which is limited and human), Christ wished to withhold His TRUE divinity as the Messiah, until it was time for Him to reveal this in His public life. Even when transforming the water into wine at Cana, He made it quite clear it was not yet His time - "They have no more wine." Jesus replied, "Dear woman, why do you involve me? My time has not yet come." Jesus' mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you" (John 2:3-5). I believe that as the Son of the living God, that He came not only as a living sacrifice, but also as an example of humility! He experienced our humanity, our grieves, our sufferings and even wept at the death of someone close to Him. Showing once again, His human side. He prayed, He fasted, He was even baptised. He showed His humanity in the Garden of Gethsemani and He showed it on the Cross. He has intimately experienced our fears and our sense of abandonment and the bitterness of the flesh. Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He allowed Himself even to be tempted by Satan and mocked by man. If anybody ever felt hated, scorned and treated with contempt/mockery? They ought then to consider Jesus': Psalm 22:6-8: But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by men and despised by the people. All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads: "He trusts in the LORD; let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him."
He put Himself in the position of receiving humility and torture at the hands of those He could have cast down by His very power and had they known whom they were truly torturing and finally crucifying, they would no doubt have died instantly of horror! Nobody therefore can ever say "God doesn't really understand". He understood and understands us intimately both as Father and through His Son Jesus Christ.
I believe Sean by this statement:
"As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, ‘Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’ And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.’" Mark 10:17-18
that it's highly possible Jesus was setting a very clear example not just to this man, but to us all over being careful not to "assume" goodness about anybody. As only God Himself can be the final judge. Since this man did not know at that time, whom Jesus truly was (unless He had Himself been inspired by God to do so), then he could not confidently claim Him as being "good" or in fact ANY man. Unless He had been inspired by God and had this revealed to him.
John the baptist knew exactly who He was before the others, because he was inspired by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit revealed this to him:
John 1:26 "John answered them, "I baptise with water; but standing among you - unknown to you - is the one who is coming after me; and I am not fit to undo the strap of his sandal.
John 1:29 The next day, he saw Jesus coming towards him and said, 'Look there is the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. It was of him that I said, "Behind me comes one who has passed ahead of me because he existed before me".
Matthew 3:14 - John tried to dissuade him, with the words, "it is I who need baptism from you, and yet you come to me! "But Jesus replied 'Leave it like this for the time being, it is fitting that we should, in this way, do all that uprightness demands. Then John gave into him.
Remember He did not begin His public life until the last 3 years of His life. It was later that He revealed His divinity and authority over life, death, demons, disease and even the elements, but also in the transfiguration. Where He dazzled His disciples by revealing Himself as He truly was!
Matthew 17
Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.
This was revealed to only three disciples.... why? Did Jesus do this to only a certain few to keep the account of this private until the time was right?
Christ was the Son of the God, but also proclaimed later, when the time was right, that they were ONE IN THE SAME!
John 10:30 I and My Father are one.
John 14:6 Jesus said I am the Way; I am Truth and Life.
To this day, many heal and cast out spirits in HIS name. He is both son of God and God!
John 14:7,8 If you know me, you will know my Father too. From this moment you know him and have seen him.
Philip said, "lord, show us the Father and then we shall be satisfied. Jesus said to him, Have I been with you all this time Philip, and you still do not know me?
'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so how can you say "Show us the Father"?
Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”1
“Immanuel” literally means: “God with us.” See also Matthew 1:23; Jesus was “God with us.”
God revealed Himself to us through His son Jesus Christ! The Father is in Him, and He is in the Father.
Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
Daniel 7:13-14: “There before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven . . . He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”
Matthew 2:11: “On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him.”
Matthew 14:32-33: “And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’”
In the Jewish culture, only the ONE true God can be worshipped!
Had they been mistaken or had blasphemed, Christ would have corrected them.
John 8:58-59: "‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.”
“I am” -- which was the same title used for Jehovah God in Exodus 3:14
Which is why they picked up the stones to kill him. For proclaiming Himself as God - the "I AM".
John 10:30-33: “‘I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’”
John 8:19: “You know neither me, nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”
John 20:27-29: “Then He said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.’ Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’"
Revelation 21:3 God Himself shall be with them, and be their God.
1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of Myself, but He sent Me.
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He (Christ), ye shall die in your sins.
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill Him (Jesus) {For their perceived blasphemy of Jesus calling Himself God}, because He not only had broken the Sabbath {customs, as they understood them}, but said also that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
Colossians 1:14-15 In whom (Jesus) we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn {Inheritor} of every creature
Colossians 2:9-10 For in Him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost (Spirit) hath made you overseers, to feed the Church of God, which He hath Purchased with His Own Blood.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jesus Himself forgave sins and allowed Himself to be worshiped as only the one and only true God can.
Mark 2:5-12 When Jesus saw their faith, He said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, He saith to the sick of the palsy, I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Savior, be Glory an Majesty, Dominion, and Power, both now and ever. Amen.
Titus 1:1-4 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; But hath in due times manifested His word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My Kingdom is not of this world: if My Kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should be not delivered to the Jews: but now is My Kingdom not from hence.
Philippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made into the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death on the cross.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am (I existed).
John 18:5-6 They answered Him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed Him, stood with them. As soon then as He had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
Hebrews 1:2 in our time, the final days, he has spoken to us in the person of his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things and through whom He made the ages.
Hebrews 1:3 He is the reflection of God's glory and bears the impress of God's own being, sustaining all things by His powerful command; and now that He has purged sins away, He has taken His seat at the right hand of the devine Majesty on high. So He is now as far above the angels as the title which He has inherited is higher than their own name.
Hebrews 2:10 For it became Him, for whom are all things, and by whom (Jesus) are all things (created), in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Spirit);
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) LORD:
Three distinct persons within ONE God. Very hard for any of us limited human beings to fathom and perhaps this is one of those mysteries that we will not fully comprehend until after we pass from this earth into eternity. And are we supposed to fully comprehend the mysteries of God until it is revealed to us in a way that we will be able to truly understand and perhaps we ought to accept some things that go quite beyond our understanding.
Even in the beginning of creation, God refers to Himself as "Us".
Genesis 1:26 "Let Us make man in Our own image, in the likeness of ourselves".
I am unsure how this can possibly be denied or mistaken in face of so many testaments throughout the bible.
How can you deny that Jesus also called himself the Son of God? IMO you seriously complicate things to arrive at your viewpoint. There was more than one God there at the time of the creation....just like it says in Genesis. Jesus was the creator of this earth with God at his side directing him, but GOD created US. And we are GOD's literal spirit children. From Jeremiah: 4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jesus WAS the Jehovah of the Old Testament. (And God was Elohim). He spoke as a spirit being still, though, and then came to earth to gain a part God/part human body which made him unique from all of us. He had to grow and develop into his role...but I'm not so sure it was that it was to hold back from letting folks know yet. He wasn't ready for his mission yet. Of course they are ONE in purpose. But why would he do some cloak and dagger thing like speaking from the heavens when John the Baptist had baptized him saying "This is my beloved son...in whom I am well pleased." THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO ST MATTHEW CHAPTER 3 John the Baptist preaches in Judaea—Jesus is baptized and the Father acclaims him as his Beloved Son. 1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the bkingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 4 And the same John had his raiment of camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. 5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. 7 ¶ But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. 13 ¶ Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. All the references you are using don't contradict any of this, but its just not what it means. They are separate beings. People have seen them.....(except for the Holy Ghost - he remains a spirit) and the scriptures don't make sense otherwise.
Last edited by Jeanie; 11/08/08 12:13 AM.
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How can you deny that Jesus also called himself the Son of God? IMO you seriously complicate things to arrive at your viewpoint. There was more than one God there at the time of the creation....just like it says in Genesis. Jesus was the creator of this earth with God at his side directing him, but GOD created US. And we are GOD's literal spirit children.
I have given quotes that confirm it and my own words....If I denied such a thing, I would be guilty of heresy. Nor have I denied the role of Creator, since Genesis backs this up. I gave the quote....I cannot figure out what you are talking about Jeanie. We are God's children, all of us. Where have I suggested otherwise? Please re-read my post, I took quite sometime in presenting this and have not mispresented any of it, but rather spent time confirming it by the many quotes. I have referred to Him as the Messiah (which means The Son of the living God) and also as the Son of God directly. That the Father is in He and He is in the Father. The quotes I have given are more than enough evidence clearly pointing to Christ not only as the Son, but also God Himself. IT was jesus that stated "I and My Father are One". This is what lead to His crucixion and what the Jews took as blasphemy. A mere "man" placing Himself as one with the Father. You only have to read through each of those quotes, where the referencs to Christ as God being undeniable - repeated and referred to both in the old and new testament. In fact, looking at your statements, I cannot figure out the logic of your criticisms and have re-read my posts to figure out how you could have come to such conclusions about apparent denials, when there isn't any nor any misrepresentations that I am aware of. Christ was also clear to John the Baptist why He allowed Himself to be baptised - since He came to fulfill all righteousness. He came to humble Himself and set an example for all humanity. As both man and God. He ate as we do, slept, fasted and prayed as well as permitted John to baptise Him. He did not exclude Himself from any spiritual duty that He would not expect of us - since He set the wonderful example. But Jesus answered him, "Let it be this way for now, because this is the proper way for us to fulfill all righteousness." At this, he permitted him to be baptized. I even emphasized the humanity of Christ with the quotes also as He felt our pains, our humiliations and griefs. I really cannot do more than what I've already given with those quotes. I could suggest simply reading them and skipping all my own words if you wish. But they all strongly confirm the three persons within ONE God. It looks like I will have to repeat some of these again: Matthew 14:32-33: “And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’” John 10:30 I and My Father are one. John 10:30-33: “‘I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’” Philippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made into the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death on the cross. Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) LORD: It is not ME who has said this but Christ Himself, His witnesses and old testament prophets who have done so. Should I then turn from this and say otherwise? I do not wish to be guilty to God for adding, twisting, or taking away from His word. I am sorry that my post so offended you. Perhaps somebody else here who is familiar with the bible can comment. Since it seems to me that the quotes speak for themselves. Thank you.
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Hello Bex !
It so nice to read your posts on the TRUTH OF GOD'S HOLY INSPIRED WORD. As is indicated in 2 Timothy 3:16 --
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
You are RIGHT ON, my Christian Sister, Bex! I have read some of Jeanie's post and find MUCH error, according to what JESUS said and is saying to His church today.
I really feel sorry for you Jeanie, as the god of this world has blinded your eyes as we read in Holy Scripture:
2 Corinthians 4: 1-5 "Therefore, seeing we have this ministry , as we have received mercy, we faint not; But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the Word of God deceitfully; (as the Mormon/ Latter Day Saints are doing)....
....but if by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:(ie. Latter Day Saints/Mormons).. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorius gospel of JESUS CHRIST, WHO IS THE IMAGE OF GOD, should shine unto them."
"For we preach NOT ourselves, but Christ Jesus the LORD; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake." 2 Corinthians 4:1-5
Why don't you 'KNOCK IT OFF, JEANIE!' You will be held accountable for the false doctrine that you are professing. Seems you, yourself, don't even know, nor UNDERSTAND what the Holy Scriptures are saying. The Mormon Church does indeed, twist, add to, delete from -and try to make the Holy Word of the Living God fit their doctrine! The Mormon (Latter Day Saints) are of Satan, himself! LIARS!
They believe in polygmany, which is totally opposite from God's Ten Commandments, EXODUS 20:14 "THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY."
Actually I find it quite amusing, Bex, that Joseph Smith Jr., having received miraculous glasses- he supposedly received from (his angel) Moroni, said he received "golden plates" of THE BOOK OF MORMONS to translate. Now, doesn't that sound like a cartoon script....certainly not Biblical, indeed! He even declared himself to be the Messiah! (RED FLAG!)
JESUS said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ravinging wolves. You shall know them by their fruits...." Matthew 7:15 & 16
Jeanie, I know you run to your concordance to look up and try to refute what Bex and I type, but Jeanie, you cannot REFUTE the Word of the Living God. " Matt 7 verse 18 "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring froth good fruit. EVER TREE THAT BRINGETH NOT FORTH GOOD FRUIT IS HEWN DOWN AND CAST INTO THE FIRE."
"Not everyone (Latter Day Saints), that saith unto me, Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."......
To say there is NO HELL, is calling the Son of God, JESUS, a liar! Well, we know that SATAN is the FATHER OF LIES! He is the deceiver, that is totally scriptural.
Isn't it interesting, Bex, that you can go into any Christian Book store and you will NEVER find a book on the 'Book of Mormons'...WHY? Because Mormons are NOT CHRISTIANS!
Sean, there are several true Christians on this message board that are concerned about your being lead astray by the Latter Day Saints doctrine. Please, I ask you to go on some search engines (ie Jeeves, Yahoo, etc) , and ask specific questions, ....such as, Are Momons Christian?, What is the False Teaching of the Latter Day Saints, etc, etc. I just did, and find it to be overwhelming in information. But you must be careful, as those Mormons have their posts on there as well, and can be very very deceiving, indeed!
OK, I know you won't like what I've just typed, Jeanie. I will NOT apologize. We will all stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and give an account for what we've done and said on this earth, before entering Heaven with King Jesus, OR go straight to the Great White Throne Judgment where it will be revealed to the whole world the FALSE TEACHING OF THE MORMON DOCTRINE!
Keep on, dear Bex, preaching the true and Holy Scriptures. As 2 Timothy 4:1-3 "I charge, thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall jusdge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; PREACH THE WORD, be instant in season, out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."
Now, catch this Sean and Jeanie,"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables." That's exactly what Joseph Smith, Jr and Brigham Young teach FABLES!!
Bex, you are in my prayers as you 'fight the good fight of faith Keep the faith, there is laid up for you a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give to all them that love His appearing." 2 Timothy 7-8.
Jeanie, since you don't mind exposing your doctrine (polygamy), may we ask you...."how many wives does your husband have? what number are YOU?"
May the God of Truth, grace, peace and love reveal Himself to us, as we study His inspired Holy Scriptures. (NO BOOK OF MORMONS)!
Blessings to those who follow
the LORD JESUS, Abishag <><
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." [John 14:6]
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Hi Abishag,
Thank you for checking that out for me. It's nice to get extra reassurance.
This was simply confirmation of the bible's own word. Anybody who gets irritated by such quotes/verses, needs to ask themselves why?
It is the disciples, the prophets of old that have stated these things by inspiration of the Holy Spirit and from the direct contact with Christ. I can hardly see how it could be more clearer. I went over those quotes/verses again and they spoke volumes. They are where I get my inspiration and truth, not another swing to them, or editions/additions from anybody, so-called prophet or otherwise.
This is how one tests self proclaimed prophets. By the word. If there is a contradiction to the word and cause for concern? They are a false prophet. I don't care if they're preaching 90% truth, it's the 10% falsehoods that are the danger and do the damage. In fact Satan often works by doing just that. A number of false visions can be attributed either to ego (made up by the person) or demonic deception. They must all be tested.
I'd be very careful to ever proclaim anybody as authentic, until they have been investigated thoroughly and their apparent "messages".
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Guys please stop writing books in here I don't have that much time on my hands lol...... Good posts but I didn't read them all yet. All of you guys are full of knowledge and very good people, thanks for your replies and posts on this subject, I appreciate each and every one of you.
BTW all this arguing in here and you are wrong and I am right brings me back to my youth when so and so will tell me the truth or so called truth without really knowing in FULL! Maybe I am wrong or maybe you are wrong or maybe she is wrong, who is right bug God himself? Did the humans touch up the bible some to fit their beliefs on every bible written? Old Test, New or whatever you read, King James etc., all humans argue over this everyday instead of searching for some truth and maybe we are wrong or they are wrong or we both have a median to speak on and not all truths are out there and some reside within GOD HIMSELF which we do not know. Before we judge Jeanie or Bex or anyone why not seriously think we are all human and prone to error and don't know all truth, for those who think they know all truth know NOTHING! Many interpretations out there that we don't fully understand as humans or half truths and so on that some believe and some do not, nobody here knows the end or all truths or even the half. I did not mean to start arguments on here over this question, everyone has their on niche and if it brings peace and so on then so be it, but don't judge others or say I feel sorry for you as if you are GOD HIMSELF and judging and right, thats where religion goes wrong IMO and people divide. I said my piece in here on this alone, and peace to all of you I LOVE YOU ALL!!!!!!!
Last edited by Sean; 11/11/08 01:54 AM.
In Sanskrit, tulsi means literally "the incomparable one" and has been revered since ancient times. Tulsi, the holy basil, is said to have grown at the site of Christ’s crucifixion and is associated with St. Basil’s feast.
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Hi Sean,
lol sorry, but I couldn't help the post being long, since giving enough quotes I felt was necessary, so that any doubts maybe settled. Since the quotes made up the majority of my post - I'm more more comfortable than if I had attempted to do it "ad lib" without them. Then it would have been full of flaws/human error I'm sure.
I wanted to pull out all relevant quote/verse for you, so that it maybe more God's word than mine or anybody else's. Even prophets of today that I may have faith in, I'd hesitate putting any word before God's. Since the bible has proven totally reliable, as well as the prophecies within. I have no reason to really go outside of it. Though it's always helpful sometimes to have a person help clarify certain aspects that maybe more difficult to understand, depending on who it is and even then, one should use their discernment and pray and make sure that it does not contradict the word of God, but rather clarifies/emphasizes.
Cheers
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Hi Sean,
lol sorry, but I couldn't help the post being long, since giving enough quotes I felt was necessary, so that any doubts maybe settled. Since the quotes made up the majority of my post - I'm more more comfortable than if I had attempted to do it "ad lib" without them. Then it would have been full of flaws/human error I'm sure.
I wanted to pull out all relevant quote/verse for you, so that it maybe more God's word than mine or anybody else's. Even prophets of today that I may have faith in, I'd hesitate putting any word before God's. Since the bible has proven totally reliable, as well as the prophecies within. I have no reason to really go outside of it. Though it's always helpful sometimes to have a person help clarify certain aspects that maybe more difficult to understand, depending on who it is and even then, one should use their discernment and pray and make sure that it does not contradict the word of God, but rather clarifies/emphasizes.
Cheers
Read my post above Bex and tell me if you don't agree or agree with the bottom half! I love you Bex, but please don't let this turn into a war in here between you and Jeanie, for we all are seeking truth and only a few if any know it here on Earth! Jesus knows it, God knows it and maybe a few others, if anyone sides them. So many miconceptions and misquotations and so on within the bible and things people feel or believe, but to force it upon anyone (You did not I am not saying you) and thinking you are right is just ignorant and proves religion and so on divides.
In Sanskrit, tulsi means literally "the incomparable one" and has been revered since ancient times. Tulsi, the holy basil, is said to have grown at the site of Christ’s crucifixion and is associated with St. Basil’s feast.
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Hi Sean, The bible is the inspired word of God - if we do not have that to rely upon, then what is left? Since this is our foundation. Those words are from the witnesses to Jesus Christ and His life on earth. Each prophecy in the bible, so far, has been 100% accurate. Now, if you can't trust that, what is left for faith in a Christ that you can't trust even His word or His witnesses? Or the book that our faith stands upon? Yes, you will get some who will try and discredit the bible, but who are you going to believe? The witnesses to Christ and the word of God that has prevailed for 2000 years or someone who comes along saying it's a bunch of bull, or certain aspects of it are? Sean, I can't do much more but to witness from the word itself. If you feel there are holes in it? So be it. Since this book and the words contained are the foundation of Christianity, and a tried and tested document that has remained faithful in interpretation from the originals and have continued to this day, there is every reason to stand strong in faith. One must always strive for truth, and I happen to trust His word completely. So far, it's never faulted, never altered. The only slight changes in interpretations are due to different languages. But even then, it has remained extremely loyal to the originals. And thank God for that! It's not so much about "religion", it is about truth. God's plain truth, straight from the prophets and witnesses. If you wish for Christians to respond to your posts to give opinions, then how can we do so outside of the word of God where our Christianity comes from? Sean, I am not trying to turn this into a "war", my intention was to answer your post as well as I could and if you can see within that post what I did to attack or deserve the response I got? Let me know. Remember too, Jesus told us: “Do not think that I come to bring the peace upon earth: I came not to send peace but the sword. For I come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and the man’s enemies shall be they of his own household. He, who loves father or mother more than Me, is not worthy of Me; and he, who loves son or daughter more than Me, is not worthy of Me. And he, who does not take up his cross and follow Me, is not worthy of Me” (10: 34-38). Jesus knew that the cost of truth, and following Him, for some, would mean a terrible back lash and division, even within ones own household. Because many would be those that would hate us for Christ's sake and would not wish to hear the word of God. Rather, most prefer to hear about worldly things, secular things, not Godly things in case it prickles our conscience and causes us to consider sin, our sin. Let's consider what happened to Christ for standing strong on truth. He was crucified for for it. Now, Jesus could have compromised, kept quiet and simply told them what they wanted to hear....but had Christ not kept strong on the truth and gone through with the consequences - from whence would our Savior come? Since the Father of all Lies (Satan), is quite happy for people to compromise the truth and tell oneanother what they want to hear, so long as it leads one away from the truth, away from the light that is Christ. All the better if it results in final and eternal separation from God. Since his interest is the destruction of souls. Such compromise, in the face of strong truths, even ones that we may not wish to hear is NOT the way of God and it is not "true peace". It is not my intention to cause wars on here Sean, but if that is the result of holding up God's holy word? Then I have no reason to be ashamed, unless I revert to personal insults/attacks. I do not apologise for standing strong on Christ's word and I will continue to do so - straight from the book itself! Take care God bless you.
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Hi Sean, The bible is the inspired word of God - if we do not have that to rely upon, then what is left? Since this is our foundation. Those words are from the witnesses to Jesus Christ and His life on earth. Each prophecy in the bible, so far, has been 100% accurate. Now, if you can't trust that, what is left for faith in a Christ that you can't trust even His word or His witnesses? Or the book that our faith stands upon? Yes, you will get some who will try and discredit the bible, but who are you going to believe? The witnesses to Christ and the word of God that has prevailed for 2000 years or someone who comes along saying it's a bunch of bull, or certain aspects of it are? Sean, I can't do much more but to witness from the word itself. If you feel there are holes in it? So be it. Since this book and the words contained are the foundation of Christianity, and a tried and tested document that has remained faithful in interpretation from the originals and have continued to this day, there is every reason to stand strong in faith. One must always strive for truth, and I happen to trust His word completely. So far, it's never faulted, never altered. The only slight changes in interpretations are due to different languages. But even then, it has remained extremely loyal to the originals. And thank God for that! It's not so much about "religion", it is about truth. God's plain truth, straight from the prophets and witnesses. If you wish for Christians to respond to your posts to give opinions, then how can we do so outside of the word of God where our Christianity comes from? Sean, I am not trying to turn this into a "war", my intention was to answer your post as well as I could and if you can see within that post what I did to attack or deserve the response I got? Let me know. Remember too, Jesus told us: “Do not think that I come to bring the peace upon earth: I came not to send peace but the sword. For I come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and the man’s enemies shall be they of his own household. He, who loves father or mother more than Me, is not worthy of Me; and he, who loves son or daughter more than Me, is not worthy of Me. And he, who does not take up his cross and follow Me, is not worthy of Me” (10: 34-38). Jesus knew that the cost of truth, and following Him, for some, would mean a terrible back lash and division, even within ones own household. Because many would be those that would hate us for Christ's sake and would not wish to hear the word of God. Rather, most prefer to hear about worldly things, secular things, not Godly things in case it prickles our conscience and causes us to consider sin, our sin. Let's consider what happened to Christ for standing strong on truth. He was crucified for for it. Now, Jesus could have compromised, kept quiet and simply told them what they wanted to hear....but had Christ not kept strong on the truth and gone through with the consequences - from whence would our Savior come? Since the Father of all Lies (Satan), is quite happy for people to compromise the truth and tell oneanother what they want to hear, so long as it leads one away from the truth, away from the light that is Christ. All the better if it results in final and eternal separation from God. Since his interest is the destruction of souls. Such compromise, in the face of strong truths, even ones that we may not wish to hear is NOT the way of God and it is not "true peace". It is not my intention to cause wars on here Sean, but if that is the result of holding up God's holy word? Then I have no reason to be ashamed, unless I revert to personal insults/attacks. I do not apologise for standing strong on Christ's word and I will continue to do so - straight from the book itself! Take care God bless you. Bex I believe in the bible fully and the word of God, what I am saying is some do not read it correctly or make it out to their own beliefs and misread things to turn it into their own beliefs as I said and really do not read it with intentions like me and you but to prove their beliefs are right and only right! THE BIBLE TO ME IS THE GOOD BOOK! I call it the good book and believe all of what it says, just people read half of it or pieces and say they know all and then argue with others to fit their beliefs only, believe me I have seen that happen! I hate when some argue or fight over this, when GOD IS PEACE and peace is through God and the kingdom of heaven is within you like he said! Why divide when truth is within Jesus Christ and therefore within you? Why do some disrespect others and start wars and fights over it when it's all meant to bring peace and love? I am not in a modern day religion or take part in such, I believe in Jesus and his teachings and believe in peace and love. I love the bible and it's teachings and take is a peace offering from Jesus and whats yet to come, not as I am right and you are wrong and argument type of thing, he did not intend that (Once again you never participated in that, but some disrespect others in here and argue for that sake, which makes me shake my head). We should all study it in the name of Jesus and God himself, we should rejoice and build on it, not argue nor say you and you are wrong, for which no human knows full truth, get what I am saying? I love you and others in here to the heart, you are my people I have bonded with and really taken a part of the last few months, and we are all in this together for the commmon cause. Thats all I am saying, not saying the bible is false, but some misread it and it's messages without really knowing and push their beliefs onto others, thats all I am saying. God bless and peace. Perhaps I am too smart and think too much for my own good and overanalyze things and mess myself all up in confusion, but I truly believe we all can be one with GOD and have peace and love, maybe thats a fantasy world but thats the way God or Jesus wanted it IMO. I tend to go off to this and that and all over the place, maybe a part of my OCD or Candida or Mercury but I am all over the place one day and then back the next, one is truth and then the next is truth, which in reality I am very confused and still searching for truth from within and try fo justify things which I have no way of finding meaning! I am seriously lost alot of times, very smart but think some things are truths and seriously a gut feeling tells me alot are not truths and I roll with that, from within! Didn't Jesus say the truth shall set you free? I am still trying to find that, I seriously feel nuts sometimes because my thoughts are so deep and all over, peace and love Bex.
Last edited by Sean; 11/11/08 05:32 AM.
In Sanskrit, tulsi means literally "the incomparable one" and has been revered since ancient times. Tulsi, the holy basil, is said to have grown at the site of Christ’s crucifixion and is associated with St. Basil’s feast.
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Hi Sean,
I understand what you're saying, thanks for clarifying it further. Well, I hope I haven't pushed anything, not that you're accusing me of doing that - but just to make that clear. I have just shared and given an opinion and this is the forum to do it. I don't get to do that much (if at all), since sharing faith in my life is rare and most people really are pretty indifferent anyway. I can't tell you how it feels to be able to do this. I think it's a good thing, because life for the most part, is the push for the secular and worldly.
But whatever I've said here, whatever weaknesses/limits, and opinions I've given that could be faulty in anyway - you can put that to oneside, as God's word prevails and though there is "some" of scripture that can be more confusing perhaps as to it's actual meaning, there is more than enough that is very clear/direct and unmistakable. And that is pretty much what should speak to us.
I think that these times are very interesting for us all and I think our faith will be shaken. By temptations, events, sufferings etc. I believe things will increase in intensity and speed (time included). Everything the bible has told us, seems to be playing out exactly as told.
One thing is certain Sean, there will come a time when all arguments will be silenced and we will all know the truth exactly as it is without any interruptions/confusions etc. I await that day with hope, but a bit of trepidation too. Already it looks like things are under-way...or am I jumping the gun? I guess time will tell.........
PS, the impact of mercury/candida and like toxins on the mind, body and spirit are profound. I can attest to that firsthand and at times I behaved like someone indifferent and/or possessed. Strange swings in behaviours, moods, and even spirit. Elated and strangely euphoric on rare occassions and other times completely deadened, depressed, terrified, suicidal etc - like being a puppet on a string. Not easy to be stable or certain.
Take care Sean!
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How can you deny that Jesus also called himself the Son of God? IMO you seriously complicate things to arrive at your viewpoint. There was more than one God there at the time of the creation....just like it says in Genesis. Jesus was the creator of this earth with God at his side directing him, but GOD created US. And we are GOD's literal spirit children.
I have given quotes that confirm it and my own words....If I denied such a thing, I would be guilty of heresy. Nor have I denied the role of Creator, since Genesis backs this up. I gave the quote....I cannot figure out what you are talking about Jeanie. We are God's children, all of us. Where have I suggested otherwise? Please re-read my post, I took quite sometime in presenting this and have not mispresented any of it, but rather spent time confirming it by the many quotes. I have referred to Him as the Messiah (which means The Son of the living God) and also as the Son of God directly. That the Father is in He and He is in the Father. The quotes I have given are more than enough evidence clearly pointing to Christ not only as the Son, but also God Himself. IT was jesus that stated "I and My Father are One". This is what lead to His crucixion and what the Jews took as blasphemy. A mere "man" placing Himself as one with the Father. You only have to read through each of those quotes, where the referencs to Christ as God being undeniable - repeated and referred to both in the old and new testament. In fact, looking at your statements, I cannot figure out the logic of your criticisms and have re-read my posts to figure out how you could have come to such conclusions about apparent denials, when there isn't any nor any misrepresentations that I am aware of. Christ was also clear to John the Baptist why He allowed Himself to be baptised - since He came to fulfill all righteousness. He came to humble Himself and set an example for all humanity. As both man and God. He ate as we do, slept, fasted and prayed as well as permitted John to baptise Him. He did not exclude Himself from any spiritual duty that He would not expect of us - since He set the wonderful example. But Jesus answered him, "Let it be this way for now, because this is the proper way for us to fulfill all righteousness." At this, he permitted him to be baptized. I even emphasized the humanity of Christ with the quotes also as He felt our pains, our humiliations and griefs. I really cannot do more than what I've already given with those quotes. I could suggest simply reading them and skipping all my own words if you wish. But they all strongly confirm the three persons within ONE God. It looks like I will have to repeat some of these again: Matthew 14:32-33: “And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’” John 10:30 I and My Father are one. John 10:30-33: “‘I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’” Philippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made into the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death on the cross. Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) LORD: It is not ME who has said this but Christ Himself, His witnesses and old testament prophets who have done so. Should I then turn from this and say otherwise? I do not wish to be guilty to God for adding, twisting, or taking away from His word. I am sorry that my post so offended you. Perhaps somebody else here who is familiar with the bible can comment. Since it seems to me that the quotes speak for themselves. Thank you. Hey Bex, Sorry - I'm having some pretty serious personal problems right now so haven't done anything lately but peek in very briefly so haven't even read this till now. It is Abishag I take offense to because she has put down Mormonism over and over. On the shout box I meant that. She does need to repent. In my mind her posting that is pretty much the kettle calling someone else black. I've had it. You have always been fair minded but especially with everything I'm dealing with right now I have no tolerance for blatant misinformed willful ignorance and am sick to death of her going out of her way to trash Mormonism. I think its wrong to become contentious about this, though, so I've stayed off. Sorry, but I've always taken your beliefs to be that they are all one being. They are a GODHEAD. They act as one - but there is no way Jesus can physically also be God the Father. He is referred to as the God of this earth interchangably because he is our Savior and is, now, our Father in a sense. It IS confusing.... I forget that it is not clear to most people that He has a body like ours only immortal (since he was resurrected). God the Father also has an immortal body. This is slightly off the topic, but I talked to a friend my age at school the other day who lost her brother the same year I lost mine in 2007 (last year). I had a dream last week that I believe was meant to comfort me and also show appreciation from my brother because I had talked to his son a few days before. It has only happened to me a few times in my life, but I have no doubt my brother was actually communicating with me. This friend had had something happen that she felt was a visitation and I agree that it was. (On a side note, the women who works there, too, who is a preacher's wife, interpreted what had happened to her as the holy ghost talking to her and I disagree - it was the actual brother - I have no doubt of it....). Anyway - this lady thinks that if she believes strong enough that her brother will come back in THIS life. While being resurrected is not outside God's power, obviously, I don't think it would be brought to pass the way she is thinking. I said, well, you will see him again. She said she didn't know about that??? I was honestly a little surprised to realize how little people really do understand what happens and what will happen. These things are not hidden from us. It has been revealed and with more clarity than people know just like these other doctrinal issues. I remember someone telling me at a church I attended before becoming LDS that we would not be known or even know our loved ones in the next life. I do not believe that. The family CAN be an eternal relationship. It is what we do in temples. We do sealings which is what this scripture is talking about.... There are a lot of plain and precious doctrines, including eternal marriage, which were lost when the apostasy took place. (Matthew 16: 19) 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Why is it that people don't understand, either, that EVERYONE will be resurrected? We will be assigned to different kingdoms or degrees of glory, obviously, but Jesus overcame death for everyone. I suppose my point is that I forget the basic truths that I now take for granted are not often understood..... I don't mean that to be condescending, but we use the Bible along with other revealed scripture AND modern revelation with modern day prophets. If people want to think that is evil....that is their loss. And Bex, I am not going to debate the polygamy issue. The only way to explain that is how I tried to - it is an eternal law and will be lived in the eternities. All worthy women will be offered the opportunity for marriage and the chance for exaltation, but God has foreknowledge that there will be more women than men. It was instituted shortly when the church had first been restored on the earth along with all the other lost ordinances like eternal marriage - but only for those who were called to live it - and it is no longer allowed now. I don't know if I could live it - not in this life. I think our mentality will be different and on a much higher level in the next life. But Mormons are the only ones who even believe we will be married (if sealed and we live worthily) for time and eternally that I know of. (And those opportunities are offered even after his life for those who didn't have it here - that is another thing we do in temples - we perform proxy baptisms for those family members of us who have passed this life without opportunity to hear the truth. No one will be forced - but baptism is required for entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven - thus the need to John the Baptist to even baptize Jesus). Sorry if I hurt your feelings before Bex. I was pretty upset with the renewed seeming "attack" and I've got more than enough on my plate right now to deal with.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 774
Elite Member
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Hi Sean,
I understand what you're saying, thanks for clarifying it further. Well, I hope I haven't pushed anything, not that you're accusing me of doing that - but just to make that clear. I have just shared and given an opinion and this is the forum to do it. I don't get to do that much (if at all), since sharing faith in my life is rare and most people really are pretty indifferent anyway. I can't tell you how it feels to be able to do this. I think it's a good thing, because life for the most part, is the push for the secular and worldly.
But whatever I've said here, whatever weaknesses/limits, and opinions I've given that could be faulty in anyway - you can put that to oneside, as God's word prevails and though there is "some" of scripture that can be more confusing perhaps as to it's actual meaning, there is more than enough that is very clear/direct and unmistakable. And that is pretty much what should speak to us.
I think that these times are very interesting for us all and I think our faith will be shaken. By temptations, events, sufferings etc. I believe things will increase in intensity and speed (time included). Everything the bible has told us, seems to be playing out exactly as told.
One thing is certain Sean, there will come a time when all arguments will be silenced and we will all know the truth exactly as it is without any interruptions/confusions etc. I await that day with hope, but a bit of trepidation too. Already it looks like things are under-way...or am I jumping the gun? I guess time will tell.........
PS, the impact of mercury/candida and like toxins on the mind, body and spirit are profound. I can attest to that firsthand and at times I behaved like someone indifferent and/or possessed. Strange swings in behaviours, moods, and even spirit. Elated and strangely euphoric on rare occassions and other times completely deadened, depressed, terrified, suicidal etc - like being a puppet on a string. Not easy to be stable or certain.
Take care Sean! Great post and I agree 100%$ on what you said, as you said yes time will tell! Remember the thief in the night as well, signs are there but the good lord knows and he is the only one, nobody can predict his return! Good post.
In Sanskrit, tulsi means literally "the incomparable one" and has been revered since ancient times. Tulsi, the holy basil, is said to have grown at the site of Christ’s crucifixion and is associated with St. Basil’s feast.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Master Elite Member
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Hi Jeanie, No problem, thanks for your apology. I understand health and personal issues well. I have them often and I hope you will be ok! I am not here to pick on or isolate any particular religion. But rather, if there are things that seem in conflict/contradiction to the biblical word, then it's not unwise to discuss that and hold it up next to the word of God. Sorry, but I've always taken your beliefs to be that they are all one being. They are a GODHEAD. They act as one - but there is no way Jesus can physically also be God the Father. What I personally believe is irrelevant - since it is what the bible teaches. I'll repeat again the quotes/verses which make this clear and italise/enlarge the particular areas that address your post: Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Yes, Jesus is God in the flesh. Look at the above quote and the ones here below: 1st Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Colossians 1:14-15 In whom (Jesus) we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn {Inheritor} of every creature John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth Philippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made into the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death on the cross. Hebrews 1:2 in our time, the final days, he has spoken to us in the person of his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things and through whom He made the ages. Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) LORD: It is not "I" that has said this Jeanie, but the biblical word. So the argument/debate is not with me. He is referred to as the God of this earth interchangably because he is our Savior and is, now, our Father in a sense. It IS confusing.... I forget that it is not clear to most people that He has a body like ours only immortal (since he was resurrected). God the Father also has an immortal body. It maybe difficult for us to comprehend, since we are limited human beings. But not difficult for God. Hopefully the biblical word will at least help us get closer to understanding this mystery more. This is slightly off the topic, but I talked to a friend my age at school the other day who lost her brother the same year I lost mine in 2007 (last year). I had a dream last week that I believe was meant to comfort me and also show appreciation from my brother because I had talked to his son a few days before. It has only happened to me a few times in my life, but I have no doubt my brother was actually communicating with me. This friend had had something happen that she felt was a visitation and I agree that it was. (On a side note, the women who works there, too, who is a preacher's wife, interpreted what had happened to her as the holy ghost talking to her and I disagree - it was the actual brother - I have no doubt of it....). Anyway - this lady thinks that if she believes strong enough that her brother will come back in THIS life. While being resurrected is not outside God's power, obviously, I don't think it would be brought to pass the way she is thinking. I said, well, you will see him again. She said she didn't know about that??? I was honestly a little surprised to realize how little people really do understand what happens and what will happen. These things are not hidden from us. It has been revealed and with more clarity than people know just like these other doctrinal issues. I remember someone telling me at a church I attended before becoming LDS that we would not be known or even know our loved ones in the next life. I do not believe that. The family CAN be an eternal relationship. It is what we do in temples. We do sealings which is what this scripture is talking about.... There are a lot of plain and precious doctrines, including eternal marriage, which were lost when the apostasy took place.
I am very sorry to hear this Jeanie  It is possible that God may allow some form of comfort/communication. But I do not know exactly how it works. It is a risky area because of the deception of evil spirits who would not be beyond imitating our loved ones, which is why it is unwise to contact the 'dead' (or those passed over). However, if God allows some message of comfort/communication? Who are we to ignore it and perhaps we should remain open to that possibility. But I'd always be cautious. Dreams are not uncommon! There may well be instances of messages getting through to us that they are not dead, but alive (at least in spirit). Only God really knows. I believe we will indeed recognise those we knew in this life, in the next and will indeed see and meet them again (depending of course on ones destination). Whoever believes otherwise, would need to produce proof that this is not so. Since it is clear that we retain our memories and for good reason. To recall both what Christ has done for us. To recognise our Savior. Recognise fellow Christians who remained faithful and aided us in our walk towards heaven. To recall our wrongs and understand our judgement in relation to that and those whom we have hurt along the way (and helped I'm sure). But here we can see that there is no need to grieve for those who have gone before us and died in the Lord. I Thessalonians 4:13ff(NASB)
"But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve, as do the rest who have no hope." Deuteronomy 31:16 when God said, "Behold, you will rest with your fathers." Romans 14:10 But you, why do you judge your brother, or why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. There would be no need for this, if we would not know, or recognise those we knew in this life. Revelation. 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Our memories will indeed be intact, just as God's is intact. Matthew 8:11 "And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."
Not only will we remember oneanother, but we will know those wonderful people in our bibles! "God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying; and there shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away" (Revelation 21:4).
So our pains and sufferings will be wiped away. Not our recall of our family/friends who were with us on this earth's journey. Matthew 8:11
"I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven;
Why is it that people don't understand, either, that EVERYONE will be resurrected? We will be assigned to different kingdoms or degrees of glory, obviously, but Jesus overcame death for everyone. Yes, everybody will be ressurected. Decrees of glory I can understand, but I have not heard of different kingdoms. As far as I know, there is only one Kingdom of Heaven. But there appear to be crowns! James 1:12
Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him. A crown of righteousness, crown of glory, a martyr's crown etc. 'I will give thee a crown of life' (Revelation 2: 10). As far as the ressurection is concerned? Jn 5:28-29
(Jesus' answer:) Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.
Rev 20:11-15
Next I saw a large white throne and the one who was sitting on it. The earth and the sky fled from his presence and there was no place for them. I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls. The sea gave up its dead; then Death and Hades gave up their dead. All the dead were judged according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the pool of fire. (This pool of fire is the second death. ) Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire.
And Bex, I am not going to debate the polygamy issue. The only way to explain that is how I tried to - it is an eternal law and will be lived in the eternities. Well, the debate is with the bible, since we have been told: Mt 22:29-32 Jesus said to them in reply, "You are misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven. And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living." Matthew 22:30, where Jesus said, "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven."
But, this passage proves our point. The angels of heaven surely know and recognize each other; some are even mentioned by name in the Bible. We will not have a physical marriage in heaven, for we will be "married" to the Lamb of God. "Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Then he said to me, 'Write: Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' And he said to me, 'These are the true sayings of God.'" (Rev. 19:7-9). We were called to populate the earth - to be fruitful and multiply. This was for all creatures! There is no mention of marriage/procreation in Heaven. Not amongst the angels, nor amongst human beings, as there is on earth. The only other time (apart from now) that there appears to be a continuation of marriage and children is the time Issiah speaks of (which is something we should all be looking forward to). It cannot be the time of the ressurection, for nobody will be given in marriage or be having children then, but they will be in the 1000 year reign of peace. Issiah 65 appears to speak of this as do other areas of the bible. The time of procreation and populating the earth will come to an end at the ressurection. Not only do we not marry and reproduce babies without our bodies (in the spirit), but even after we receive our bodies at the ressurection, it will no longer occur. This is not me who says this, but Christ Himself! Those who suggest otherwise are in error.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 47
Junior Member
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good to have faith
Last edited by benza; 11/21/08 12:30 AM.
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