Hi Jeanie

LOL I’ve been doing manual quotes but I still don’t know how to use the Quote button controls on the site. I guess I just learned what I needed and haven’t gotten around to the rest.

To be honest, it has been a while since I've read the BofM in its entirety, but now you have me curious.

Me too though I read through a bit of it again yesterday when I was drafting my reply to you.

Honestly, though, some of your criticisms are a little bold considering you weren't there as far as the language they used (its reformed because over time it was not in its pure form since this group separated from the original).

Reformed, well later versions, of languagers are pretty normal, all languages evolve over time. There is no evidence anywhere that reformed Egyptian was a language known to the Israelites. That’s not to say that some didn’t but it’s an improbable language given that it was very very uncommon among them at least it is in all the writings we have from them from that period but Nephi claimed that it was the language of his father not just a rare languge that he happened to know. It’s not proof of anything but it is very suspicious.

And you are right, I wasn’t there, but then I’ve never been to America either but there’s plenty of evidence I can use to work out what America is like just as there’s lots of evidence that I can use to learn about the Israelites of 600BCE. Do I need to go to America to know about it?

It’s still hard to explain that Nephi quotes in around 590 BCE from a book that was not written till almost 200 years later. Malachi was written around 420 BCE.

Ever watched The Passion of the Christ?

No I managed to avoid it after reading a few reviews of it.

You are going to find nit picky things about anything. But its pretty apparent that Joseph Smith himself didn't write it. Its a legitimate record.

Now there’s a claim I’d like to see you support. What, to you, proves that Joseph Smith didn’t write it and that it is a legitimate record?

And it speaks of a people we didn't even know about till long after it was found. (People didn't know about the ruins in SA, certainly Joseph Smith did not! He was a barely educated, poor boy.

Can you cite chapter and verse on this and I’ll have a look at it.

The whole reason I even looked into Mormonism was because of the whole "hell" issue. Just didn't ring true to me. Not the way I was being taught it. I have a concept of God being a loving Father and couldn't buy the way he was being represented.

I had similar problems with the bible when I was a believer. LOL I guess I just took things a bit further than you did when I decided to look elsewhere for answers.

As far as the tools, etc., IMO people were a lot more advanced at times than we may have any idea. A written history, to me, is a lot more impressive than things that people have to dig up.

It may be though given the number of artefacts from that time that we have it seems very improbable but we certainly can’t rule it out. We can, however, say that we have no evidence to support the notion. It’s easy to imagine that an uneducated poor boy would get some of the details wrong and have tools and technology that were beyond the abilities of the people he was portraying in his story. That is certainly more plausible than the idea that god left gold magical gold plates in a backyard in Palmira New York to be found years later by Joseph IMHO. At least the idea that Joseph Smith made it up doesn’t break any major laws of physics and we know that people lie and deceive and are deluded or crazy at times.

On the other hand, there are lots of evidences that verify what the BofM talks about. However, as with the Bible, you do have to pray about whether its true or not and someone who doesn't even believe in God is not likely to do that at this point at least.

If there is evidence then prayer is not needed, show me the evidence. I’m open to evidence, good evidence, that’s what I base my ‘beliefs’ on. But you’re right, I’m not about to start praying about it any time soon. I gave that up long ago.

LOL did you know that Joseph Smith also appears to quote Shakespeare in 2 Nephi 1:14. "From whence no traveller can return" is a line from Hamlet. Coincidence maybe.

I appreciate you even entertaining the idea, though. Check out Third Nephi, sometime...

I’ll have a look when I get time. I seem to remember that it too had a few historical problems but I don’t remember the details.

All the best Jeanie

Russell