Hello All
I'm new here and have been reading many of your posts with great interest. You've already answered so many of my questions, but I have a few more.

First a bit about me.

I've had CFS & (or) multiple chemical sensitivity for nearly 5 yrs.

I've have tried heavy metal detox in the past (using Ian Solleys protocol, under the care of the same nutritionst who cured him). I can only say that it was hell on earth and that I geniunely wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy; I've read some of the posts here about the severe detox/psychotic symptoms that some of you have endured and thats what this protocol did to me. I stuck with it for months and it left me dangerously close to suicide.

Suffice it to say that I swore I'd never again listen to another so-called professional over the messages my own body was trying to send me. You live and learn. Having read about chlorella etc on this forum, I now understand why I suffered so horribly. Pity this same nutritionist didnt do more research and it might have saved me a lot of pain. So... moving on....

About 10 days ago I stared taking alpha lipoic acid for its antioxidant properties. I knew nothing about it also being a chelator but when I broke out in hives 24 hours after starting it, I did some more research, found this website and began educating myself. I have ordered A Cutlers book, some DMSA and was hoping start the entire protocol as soon as it arrives.

However, a health-care professional whom I trust and who has some experience in this field has advised that even this gentler approach of DMSA + ALA may be too harsh for me. When supplements dont agree with me, I tend to have severe fatigue/headache type reactions and clearly I want to avoid that as far as possible. I'm also wary of potentially inflicting any damage on my body. By that I mean, stirring up any chemical or heavy metals but not getting them out of my body.

He says that I should first build up my strength using diet + supplements and then begin a detox. I can see his point; he makes a lot of sense. But I also thought that the ALA & DMSA was a gentle approach if started on very low doses.

I had assumed that the headaches/fatigue/hives were an indication that the ALA was doing its thing and despite the symptoms I was happy that I was making progress. They werent terribly bad as these things can go, so I figured I could tough it out. The reaction started at a daily dose of about 150mg ALA spread through the day.

Am I wrong? Are these symptoms a sign that I needed to start with a much lower dose?

I know AC says that DMSA is not necessary whereas ALA is, but do some of you find DMSA easier to tolerate in terms of fewer symptoms?

Or do some of you find that the ALA + DMSA combination works better.

Is the answer going to be that everyone reacts differently?

Question 2. 2 years ago I had a blood test done which showed I had no mercury in my blood but did have nickel.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that after 20 years with amalgams, cancer at 17, suffering from CFS and multiple chemical sensitivity in my 30's that mercury isnt in some way responsible. I had the amalgams removed 3 years ago.

How reliable are blood tests if the mercury is safely stored away in bone, brain or other tissue?

If this is answered in ACs book then tell me to be patient and wait for it to arrive

There is so much great info on this site; I'm very glad I found it! YOu dont know what a relief is it to find that there are other people who cannot tolerate the standard detox regimes. After my previous attempt at detox I was left to feel that I was the only person for whom it didnt work (in fact that is exactly what she told me - that she had a 100% success rate!).

The fact that I couldnt get it to work for me meant that I was just giving up too soon (after 6 months of hell) and meant that I was stuck with a lifetime of illness. That was so demoralising; this site has opened my eyes.

Thank you all for that!

I can't answer the questions as the chelating field is still a mystery to me, but I wish you well with your CFS and chemical sensitivities where as I can relate and it's HELL! It sounds like you have been through a hell of alot as far as this goes, Mercury is probably definitely your problem as is Candida and parasites as well I would guess being they all go hand in hand.



BTW I handle standar detox like crap most of the time, feel sick to my stomach, ears itch badly, nose itches and my head as well! I get diarreah and my mind races fast at times, anxiety and feel groggy and very weak, worst of all I have to go to work which is physical during all of this and act like I am fine. I can's answer your questions right now as I said because I am not an expert there, but I just came in to say I am glad I found this site as well and good luck finding your niche (I haven't found mine YET).

Hi Molly

welcome. Glad you found your way here. If you're going to follow the Cutler protocol, you need to find your way to the frequent dose chelation group

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/

this is where everything to do with amalgam illness and the Cutler protocol gets discussed. A lot of us here are doing Cutler...

You sound very sick, and I'm sorry you've had a rough time on other detox protocols. The Cutler protocol is the safest in terms of getting the mercury out of your body, and you can adjust the dose to go as slowly as you need to. I and others have been very sick from mercury, but we are progressing slowly but surely on the Cutler protocol. I myself have done over 50 rounds of DMSA to reduce the body burden of mercury, and have now introduced ALA at 12.5mg. It is a little high, but I am dealing with it OK. Someone else I know is very sensitive and is dosing ALA at 1mg. You really can go as low and slow as you want. There should be no big healing crisis with the Cutler protocol, just slow chelation of mercury out of the body.

Everything will become clear when you read Cutler's book! Why other detox protocols don't work, why chlorella doesn't chelate mercury, simply moves it around, and why you had such a bad reaction to the erratic dosing of ALA. You have to dose according to the half-life of ALA (every 3 hours) in order to get a smooth movement of mercury out of the body.

I would say there is no harm in strengthening yourself with diet and supplements before starting DMSA / ALA chelation. Treating candida with diet, and possibly antifungals or probiotics is a good idea to decongest the gut, and make sure you can eliminate properly. Supplementing with antioxidants (vit C, vit E)magnesium, milk thistle, and vit B will support your body during chelation, which is stressful to the body. Another thing you need to consider is adrenal and thyroid support. These are often badly affected by mercury, and underperforming in most people. Some over on FDC think that adrenal and / or thyroid support should be mandatory while chelating, because if they are not weak to start with, they will take a hit from chelating, and possibly cause problems later on.

You will most likely find the combination of ALA / DMSA the easiest to tolerate. I did a few rounds of ALA only, and the redistribution effects were quite bad, and eliminated when I took DMSA along with the ALA. DMSA chelates extra cellular mercury only; ALA chelates organs and crosses the blood brain barrier to chelate mercury from the brain. For most of us, this is where there is the most mercury, and where it is doing the most damage. ALA is the real chelator, the real work horse, and you won't get better unless you use it. DMSA kind of mops up mercury around the body, but its unlikely that you'll get better using DMSA alone if you have a lot of mercury in the brain.

Blood tests are not reliable to show mercury levels. They will only show mercury for a few days after acute exposure, then the body squirrels the mercury away to other organs. The best way to find out whether mercury is your issue is to do a hair analysis. Again, this is discussed in the Cutler book. Another good website is http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/oral_chelation1.html

here they talk about the Cutler protocol, adrenals/thyroid, and you can post your hair analysis results for opinions. You can also order compounded DMSA / ALA in whatever dose you need - the only place on the web to do so.

More reading for you, but I hope this is helpful. We all hope we can get out of this (mercury) mess, but we have to accept that it may take a long time to do it safely. I have been chelating for a good 18 months now, and I anticipate at least another 2 years of ALA chelation. I am getting improvement after each round at the moment, so I hope that's encouraging.

Best

Nicola

Hi Molly! Glad you found us here.

My first question to you is what is Ian Solley's protocol? I looked online and I couldn't really find anything.



Yes diet is extremely important, so I agree with your doctor. Diet actually helped me quite a bit before I even realized I had amalgam illness. It's amazing what happens to your body when you begin to eat vegetables rather than fast food and prepared foods. You may need to do a colon/parasite cleanse. I did one a few years ago and had amazing results. That is when my health started to get better (before it got worse again after dental work).

I would be cautious to suggest that DMSA and ALA is the gentler approach. You will have detoxing side effects from them. Some people have it worse than others. Personally, I've been doing really well, but I know there are some on here who had to stop detoxing to get other things in order first.



The hives kind of throw me off, but headaches and fatigue are normal. Maybe someone else here experienced hive?



Dr. Cutler says he does not recommend a very mercury toxic person to start right away on ALA. The reason for this is because ALA is crossing the blood-brain barrier. If you haven't gotten the mercury out of the organs, blood and tissues first, you may in fact pull mercury back INTO the brain with ALA. Your body won't be able to excrete the mercury fast enough and it will get soaked back in. He says you can have a urine test done to see if starting ALA is good for you. (page 204) However since you have had your amalgams out for 3 years, you could start on ALA. ALA is not recommended for people who recently removed their amalgams.

DMSA + ALA works much better together. DMSA helps to alleviate the symptoms of ALA. Remember these symptoms isn't the ALA itself, it is the mercury coming out of the brain. I still don't know if I'd start that right away though. I'd give DMSA a chance on its own just to see how mercury toxic you are, but that is up to you. Since you did so poorly on another protocol you probably need to take it very slow. ALA may has some wicked detoxing effects you can read about on page 203.

Everyone does react differently, but Dr. Cutler explains that you need to lower your overall mercury load from the body before starting on the brain.

My amalgams were removed just a few weeks ago. I am taking 15mg of DMSA every 3 1/2 hours (this is what my body wanted) for 4 days. Then I take 4 days off to allow my body to rest. I am usually quite thankful for those days. Waking up in the middle of the night gets rough. At the 3 month mark I will add ALA with the DMSA every 3 hours.



Blood tests are unreliable unless you are actively detoxing. They can be used as a spot check. You can't reliably test the body for mercury. Even these challenge tests can't show what's in the brain. Conventional medicine loves to use blood tests in amalgam/chronic mercury poisoning to try and prove that nothing is wrong.

All of your questions are answered in the book, but it is pretty jumbled. I really wish Dr. Cutler would release a new edition that was more organized and straight to the point. I read the book front to back and still see things in the book I didn't catch the first time.

Many thanks for taking the time to give me such informative replies. I apologise for not replying sooner; I havent been online.

Sean, I'm sorry to hear you're having such a rough time and I hope things improve for you very soon.

Nicola, many thanks for telling me your personal experiences and also for the details of LivingNetwork. It has lots of useful info on there.

Birdlady: Ian Solley's protocol was the one used by a nutritionist to cure him of CFS. He didnt actually devise it, but he has a website on which he sells an eBook describing the protocol.

Essentially it places huge emphasis on a LOT of supplements. Chlorella features very highly as do high dose multi-vits, products to clear out the colon (which worked so well that I felt like I'd been punched in the stomach after I started taking them. I was doubled up in pain. I also couldnt leave the house for 3 weeks after first starting them because I never knew when I'd need a toilet - sorry.... a bit too much info, but I'm trying to give you an idea of how these products can affect you.)

They also feature fatty acids of various descriptions to rebuild cellular membranes. At one point I was taking over 50 pills/day and had to draw up a spreadsheet to keep track of what I needed to take and at what times.

In theory there is nothing wrong with the supplements except that in the 6 months I spent on this program I spent thousands of pounds buying products. Ian Solley claims on his website that it wont cost thousands to implement; well, that's not the truth.

It used to scare the heck out of me when I would have to place another order for supplements because I was building up credit card debt that I had no way of paying off (and in fact,I'm still paying off).

The biggest problem as I see it is that the diet is not designed to heal a sick body. You're allowed to eat;
- green leafy veg/salad leaves
- meat (red meat, poultry)
- eggs
- some dairy produce (butter, cream, yoghurt)
- you also had to take a VERY expensive protein drink (not just any old whey product, but a particular brand)

Essentially thats it. Not only do you cut out the usual problem foods like sugar, caffeine etc, but you are not allowed to eat;

- grains of any description (no oats, wheat, rye etc)
- no fruit of any description
- no veg "grown beneath the ground", ie potatoes, carrots
- no beans (according to them, not high enough in protein, which by the way is not true)

Thats just an overview; the list of forbiddens is very long!

A vegetarian would not be able to do this diet.

Anyone who understands basic nutrition is now asking:
- what about fibre?
- what about all that saturated fat?
- what about the micronutrients you lose out when you exclude fruit?

I started this diet in winter, when green leafy veg was non
existent in the supermarkets (and I was in any case, too ill to go grocery shopping). Nutrition is now one of my big passions and I know that a diet which totally excludes fruit cannot give you enough essential nutrients.

Not only that, but despite what you might read, the fructose in fruits does not cause blood sugar problems IF you combine it with a healthy low fat diet. Low fat is the key.

On their detox diet you are eating a lot of saturated fat from the meat, eggs and cream and I dont understand any nutritionist condoning that.

Green leafy foods are essential, but they dont contain enough calories or micro-nutrients to survive on.

Thats all I remember of the diet, but I can tell you that there were days when I physically retched when I cooked myself yet another omelette.

Knowing what I know now about nutrition, I believe I was severely malnourished, despite the high dose multivits. Thats why I say that this diet is in my opinion detrimental to a healing body. You miss out on so many many antioxidants and healing factors when you exclude fruits.

I was also severely ill; I couldnt get to the sink to get a glass of water. I had to force myself to eat and hope I wouldnt throw it up. I was very weak and psychologically disturbed. Unfortunately, the nutritionist I was seeing told me that I just had to stick it out, because (and I quote) "this has never failed".

It also played havoc with my thyroid medication (my thyroid was removed 20 years ago so I take replacement medication). I dont know how or why it did it, but it interfered with my ability to absorb the medication correctly leaving me very severely hypothyroid.

After my experiences with that protocol, I contacted Ian Solley, told him of my experiences and asked that he advise potential clients on his website that there was a possibility of a serious negative reaction. As far as I was concerned, if he was selling an eBook for profit, he had a duty to warn people that they could potentially become very ill on this detox.

He refused to do so because he claimed that I was the only person for whom this protocol had not worked. I was also apparently the only person who had had such a severe time with it. Frankly, I dont believe a word of it.

I can only imagine he thinks that telling the truth will damage his sales.

At that point I lost all respect for him, and havent had anything more to do with either him or the nutritionist in question. These days I work with a professional whom I trust and I'm educating myself about the things I can do help myself.

If anyone is considering undertaking what Ian Solley promotes, please consider what I've said very seriously. I have nothing to gain from misrepresenting my experiences. But he does this for a living.

It is true that I was very angry at both him and the nutritionist for some time, because I realised I had put my trust in people who did not have my best interests at heart. I felt like I'd been betrayed. 2.5 years later, I still have not recovered from the damage inflicted by their protocol.

These days I'm not angry; but I do consider them dangerous hacks. Neither of them intended for me to become so ill, but neither did they bother researching why that happens in some people.

Sometimes carelessness does just as much damage as intentional action.

I hope I dont come across as angry, bitter and twisted, because I'm truly not.:)

Anyway, for me thats all in the past. I am very much looking forward to reading Dr Cutlers book when it arrives. I want to take a far more pro-active approach to getting well, and I think this might be a great starting point.

So again, many thanks to you all for your responses.

Before you completely lash out at the guy. I think he was on the right track with the diet. The chlorella was a bad idea.

It sounds like he puts you on a modified candida diet, which honestly is very smart. Milk and whey protein would fuel candida though, so that's very very bad. Yes it limits your diet, but if you have candida then you can't eat anything that spikes the blood sugar. Fruit is not that good for you despite what mainstream nutrition says. It will spike your blood sugar, which can be terrible for someone with candida.

Most people with mercury poisoning also have a yeast overgrowth in the body. You could have in fact been experiencing die off symptoms from the yeast, not malnutrition. Some people here actually say die off symptoms is WORSE than mercury detoxing effects.

Don't be fooled that fats are bad. Your body needs fat to function properly and to repair (especially during mercury detox). What makes someone become fat is the simple carbohydrates in our diet (candy, white bleached flour, sugars). High fat diets, don't necessarily make someone fat unless they are eating high fat foods with simple carbohydrate foods (that's the American way). It's very important to eat proteins when detoxing or you won't detox properly. They aren't exactly sure WHY this happens, but vegans and vegetarians have a hard time getting rid of mercury. I believe it was Dr. Huggins who said he couldn't cure mercury poisoning in a vegan.

I think vegetarianism and veganism is detrimental to your health and would NEVER recommend it to anyone.

That's my take on why you were doing so terrible. I'm surprised that no one else could see that it was yeast die off.

Hello Molly. I have suffered from chronic fatigue syndrome and multiple chemical sensitivity for years. I used to be quite overweight for many years(average 50 pounds overweight). Now I am thin. I had my fillings replaced several months ago. I suggest that you do some parasite cleanses. I also suggest that you take some antifungals to help fight candida, and be on a low carbohydrate diet. Eating raw garlic will help fight parasites and candida. Molybdenum will help fight chemical sensitivity(search for my posts here on acetylaldehyde). So will some detox teas. The Yogi, and Triple Leaf detox teas have helped me. I suggest that you take a B50 or half a B50 tablet 2 or 3 times a day. Also use a sublingual B12 supplement a few times a day. Taking a few grams a day of vitamin c, 10,000-20,000 units vitamin A, and 2,000 units a day of vitamin D would be a good idea.

Fruits are unnecessary if you eat low carbohydrate vegetables and take supplements. Fats are necessary to make up for the calories that that one does not take in by being on a low carbohydrate diet. Nuts are a good source of calories, fiber and protein(eat them together with other proteins) if you find that you are losing too much weight on a low carbohydrate diet. Eggs are a great source of protein and sulphur. Coconut oil is a good antifungal. Eating lean beef is okay, but I don't recommend eating any groud beef. Lowfat plain yogurt with active cultures is good to eat, however other dairy products should probably be avoided or used sparingly.

Hi and thanks again for your comments.

JK98: thank you for your comments on supplements and food. I'm eating a lot of garlic at the moment (hubby tells me I reek!!). Good advice also on the supplements - I will check that my multivit includes all of the above. Out of curiosity, with CFS & MCS, do you find that you sometimes have very extreme reactions to supplements which dont suit you?

Birdlady; I should clarify; my problem with Ian Solley had nothing to do with the content of his eBook, the diet he promotes, or the supplements. Clearly it worked for him, so I dont doubt that it CAN work for others.

My problem with him is that he refuses to warn already ill people that this protocol might cause them to become even more ill. He paints a very rosy picture on his website of how wonderful this protocol is, how GENTLE it is compared to other methods. How quickly you could see results etc etc. When I bought his book 3 years ago, there was no mention either on his site or in his eBook about possible side effects of detox, whether from mercury or candida die-off.

That is just plain wrong, particularly when he had first hand accounts from someone who had experienced horrible side effects from what he sells.

Its that mis-representation that I find so wrong and deceitful. And that is my sole problem with him.

Like you, I agree that a vegan/vegetarian diet is probably not the best choice, especially for a sick body. But I dont think you should rule out vegetarian sources of protein completely. They have a role to play too.

I realise that we need oils in our diet, but I disagree with you that the level of animal fat which this diet introduces is healthy. The body needs fat, but we in the west eat too much animal fat and not enough vegetarian or fish oils. Numerous studies exist which show that the healthiest populations in the world eat gain their oils primarily from fruit/veg/seeds/nuts. Fish oils are next in the list of priorities while animal fats are way down on the list. Yes, we need animal fats, we just need to balance it a bit better.

About 5 months ago I changed my diet to one which comprises about 80% raw fruit, veg and seeds. The remainder is foods such as wholegrains, meat/poultry and eggs. I did it as an experiment, having read so many reports of people curing themselves from all sorts of ailments with the help of a healty diet.

For me, this approach has been helpful. I never expected that it would remove the heavy metals from my body (that wouldnt be reasonable), but it has made me strong enough to even contemplate attempting it again.

I'm not advocating this for everyone. I dont suffer from candida, so I have no problem with the fruit content. I was already on an exclusion diet (processed foods, sugar, dairy and caffeine) but that didnt cure my migraines, whereas this diet has.

We all know that each individual is different; every day on here we see people who respond well to a dose of DMSA which would cripple another person. Its all about our individual tolerances and needs.

In my case this way of eating works. It has made me stronger. I'm not saying it would work for everyone.

So while I agree that cutting out unhealthy foods and drinks is a MUST, I also think that just as we each respond in a different way to various detox supplements, we probably each respond in a different way to various foods.

Again, going back to my experiences with the other detox protocol, no-one considered that we each respond differently. Everyone was put on the same diet, took the same supplements and in the same quantities.

In light of my experiences I would say that any "program", be it a diet, a detox or whatever which advocates the same foods, medication/supplement types and dosages for every person, is doomed to cause some of those patients a lot of unnecessary pain. Any regime which treats us "the same" is not going to work for a percentage of those people.

The path to good health is one big experiment. We can follow some general guidelines and learn from those who have gone before, but ultimately we each have to figure out what works for us.

"Out of curiosity, with CFS & MCS, do you find that you sometimes have very extreme reactions to supplements which dont suit you?"

Sometimes I get a strong reaction a few hours after eating garlic. I guess this is probably a reaction to candida die off.

This has often been discussed on a candida forum I belong to. People may experience healing reactions to good healing foods/supplements, which can mimic allergic type reactions. Then they may think that foods/supplements like this simply don't agree with them and they no longer consume them. Yet that maybe a mistake. Because reactions can mean a correcting process is underway inside the body as it starts to shift toxins out and heal itself.

It's hard to tell because at the sametime, mercury and/or candida can make a person extremely chemically sensitive and people can react easily adversely to foods/supplements when they are like this as well.....but it's not usually wise to avoid good foods, when those foods maybe the very foods that are helping to shift toxins and heal. Supplements the same. Unless the reaction is really concerning (as in redistribution of mercury).

Reactions to garlic could be die off and/or mercury/metal movement. Garlic not only acts as a natural and pretty powerful antifungal, but it can also mobilise metals. I have had many a reaction to garlic that has been both die off and metal related. It certainly does have an effect with metal. Some people actually find it helps them detox mercury. Some feel it makes their symptoms too bad, so they avoid it. One dental outfit I know about that is biologic, recommends garlic to help detox mercury.....

It can bounce it around faster, but it may not remove it so well. So in that case it maybe a risky thing to use. Though some people respond very well to it, others may not.

I have made that mistake so many times as far as stopping a supplement or something that is helping thinking I am allergic to it! I try not to do that much anymore, but in the past that has been a HUGE mistake of mine to say the least.

I did the same thing though. Nobody likes to feel worse, so you tend to stop those things which you know makes it worse. Or you try it again and then stop because the symptoms come back. I barely stuck to anything for long enough because symptoms would increase or other symptoms would erupt.

I just wanted to feel better. I would get some courge back when the symptoms subsided, thinking "this time I'll stick with it", but the initial courage would usually fade again.

I think I knew at times they were healing reactions, but I still didn't want to stick it through for long enough. I had reactions to sulfur foods when I was mercury toxic too. Not sure if that was good or bad, because I know mercury depletes sulfur and replacing sulfur displaces mercury (which causes symptoms)....so I was never sure what to do. I just kept it to a minimum.

But again, other things also caused reactions, and supplements too. not totally intolerant, but just made me feel revolting. I think they were detox reactions too.

Thats a really interesting point about supplements and healing reactions. Its been going around in my head for a few hours now and I'm still wondering how I'm going to work with it.

The field of detox is very new, and there is no one authority out there who knows everything we need to know. And there are "experts" who contradict other "experts".

So it seems to me that the only way you can safely detox yourself is to listen to the feedback your body gives you.

So how do you know whether something is a healing reaction and you should just stick it out OR whether by doing so, you're over-riding your body's innate knowledge and doing yourself more harm than good.

I take your point that if something is good for you, you could considering sticking it out....

And I can also accept the idea that if your body is toxic as a result of exposure to un-natural metals or chemicals, then your body might react in a negative way.

But although that might be interpreted as a good thing (in the sense that its a healing reaction), maybe that healing reaction is more severe than that toxic body can handle at that moment in time.

I dont know... I can certainly see your point but ...

Can you tell that I'm really undecided here ???

Molly no mercury detox program is gentle. Not Dr. Solley's, not Dr. Cutler's, not Dr. [insert another detox protocol]. No ones! You can't detox the body of the 2nd most toxic element on earth without feeling like ...garbage.

I can assure you that Dr. Cutler does not say his is gentle. Some people online may suggest this, but that is not correct. On Page 71-72 of the book he says to have your life planned out for the next year. Do not start any new projects. Have a planner, pill containers, and lists. Get everything in your life organized.

You will experience symptoms no matter how careful you are. The difference with Dr. Cutler's detox is the attempt to control the severity of symptoms. His protocol tries to eliminate the common back lashing that occurs with metal redistribution. Even still, there will be days where you will feel ill, have strange pains and ailments come out of no where.