Hi Jeanie

Jeanie: I do not believe the Bible is false.

That wasn’t the question, if someone proved to you that it was false, really proved it to your satisfaction, how would that affect you. It’s a hypothetical question so let your imagination run wild if you can and tell us how that would affect your life.

So many of the things mentioned in the bible contradict real world evidence and the more fundamentalist the believer the less they seem willing to really get into the evidence and theory that science has come up with to explain the world around us. Do you think there may be a link between this avoidance and the contradictions you find everywhere between the findings of science and the words in the bible?

I think people are misinterpreting it....or don't have the big picture - the whole truth.

I’m sure of that though I would probably differ with you on who and why

Your statements about the order of the creation don't phase me. We have other scripture, as I've stated, which goes into the creation in more depth.

Sure but none of these passages have the order right, not even close.

I don't see how you can say the vitamin C issue is proof we are cousins to apes. Cool little factoid there, but proof????? NOT.

How then would you explain it? It’s more than a coincidence that of the 50000 or so bases that describe the vitamin C pathway just 3, and the exact same three, are altered in us and exactly the organisms that ToE suggests we are most closely related to. Of course it gets far more interesting if you look more deeply at our DNA. Errors, viral insertions, and many more details all produce a picture of who is more closely related to who that is hard to explain in any other way than ToE. As you start to find literally hundreds of these sorts of ‘cool little factoids’ you have to start asking why? How could this happen if god independently designed all of these creatures. Even in courts of law shared errors are considered rock solid proof of shared source. Such evidence is used in plagiarism cases regularly. Copy someone’s words and you may argue that that was the best way to describe something and you did so independently but copy their errors and you are in very deep trouble.

Kolob is so far away it can't be proven at this point.

It is? how do you know?

I don't claim the earth is 6000 years old and never have. I think materials here are made from eternal matter so, yes, could be billions and billions of years old.

Fair enough, I agree. But the dating methods that show so clearly that humans are older than 6000 years are not based on the age of the matter but on the last time it underwent some specific event that can be correlated with the life of those humans or the creatures being studied at the time. For really old samples radiometric dating is based on the time at which the rock cooled from molten form. For radio carbon dating it’s based on the time when the organism last breathed/transpired atmospheric air. A number of other methods are based on the last time a sample was exposed to sunlight. None of these methods are based on how old the matter is so they can’t be fooled by a recycled earth scenario.

Yet other methods are based on simple things like annual cycles (summer/winter, rainy/dry etc) such evidence can be observed forming today as we watch so we can understand in great detail how it works and so how old a given sample is. It’s often as simple as counting alternating coloured bands in wood, sediments or ice cores for example. Lots of different methods, none susceptible to being fooled by recycling all disagreeing with the words of the bible.

Of course we also know that the universe is expanding at a rapid rate so we know that it used to be much smaller once, in fact from that observation we understand that all of the matter here was created from energy when the universe was vary small and hot. Yes we can even look at the afterglow of this event to confirm the numbers that come out of that theory. The idea of eternal matter contradicts the evidence.

It doesn't affect my salvation one way or another as I stated.

But would it if you learned that the bible is wrong?

some things science will have to measure up to, not the other way around. Its all conjecture.

Now you are stepping onto dangerous ground. If you reject the possibility of knowing the truth by objective evidence how can you ever determine that it is not the Moslems who are right or the Hindu’s or Thor’s worshipers for that matter. Only objective evidence can really distinguish between these ideas yet you have reversed that essential link.

Leaving God out of the picture leaves some huge holes.

If god does not exist then it is the only logical way to deal with the world, to leave him out of our picture of it along with santa claus, the easter bunny, thor and all of the other false human ideas. If the ‘huge holes’ are the truth then surely we should face them and accept them.

And HOW can I prove we have a soul?

I suspect that you can’t. It’s very hard indeed to prove the existence of something that does not exist though many have tried.

YOU will find out we have souls when you die and you are still aware of everything going on.....and when you move beyond this realm. I'll see you there and we'll talk about it then some time in the future : )

LOL join the queue. It’s going to be a big crowed if you are right. The first was Pat, who I met on another forum years ago. She’s going to be waiting to meet me with a pink carnation in her hair so I’ll recognize her. It’ll be a great party so please come along.

Of course I suspect that what will actually happen is far less fun. Oblivion is not even boring but it’s certainly not going to be fun.

In reason

Russell