from Russell2

Hi LindaLou

What about natural phenomena which are currently unexplained?

What about them? There are plenty of things we don’t understand, phenomenon by the million that we can’t explain but leaping to conclusions beyond all evidence seems to be an approach to such problems that is fraught with danger especially with such emotionally charged questions as this. I prefer to say that I simply don’t know though I am yet to see any reason to believe there is any truth to any claimed supernatural phenomenon. Maybe I’ll be shown to be wrong in the future but that day is not now I would suggest. So till some good evidence appears the only reasonable position is to not believe but leave open the option to change your mind if ever some evidence for the supernatural comes to light.

You seem to be suggesting that you will not accept the existence of something unless you experience it yourself.

No I accept many things I have not experienced myself from the idea that it’s not fun to be run over by a bus to the idea that black holes exist and that our universe is very very old, even the idea that America exists. I’ve never experienced any of these things but there are good logical reasons to accept them and none of them breaks any of the laws of physics, though black holes stretch them to their limits, unlike the supernatural.

Yet we both have said here that while some things cannot be directly experienced, we can study the clues that point to their existence.

That’s very true but we are stepping into an area that is inherently uncertain when we approach the likes of ghosts. The best evidence presented so far is anecdotal yet we both know I’m sure that people lie, are deceived, apply wishful thinking and flawed reasoning to the things they experience. That they suffer from delusions and hallucinations, that they fall for illusions purposeful and accidental, that they make up stories and that they are very bad at remembering details accurately. Given all that we must treat all ghost stories with at least a good grain of salt, add to that the problem that ghosts appear to break the laws of physics which is unprecedented and that they don’t produce any good physical evidence and you are left with a very shaky foundation for any belief.

There is an enormous anecdotal body of evidence, stretching back thousands of years, that ghosts exist.

Of course and there is an enormous body of anecdotal evidence stretching back at least as far that the earth is flat and that the sun moves over it, does that make it true? That people have believed something for a very long times has no bearing on it’s truth. Many of our longest held beliefs are wrong.

What they actually are, we don't really know, but how can you be so sure that all of these people are simply mistaken or deluded?

I don’t know what your family have experienced so I can’t really comment.

Again, why are you so sure? What would your evidence for this statement be?

For the same reason that I don’t believe in Zeus or Santa Claus, there is no evidence in favour of these hypotheses and they all break the laws of physics which is something that has never been shown to occur in properly controlled and monitored conditions. I stand to be corrected on any of the above if someone can provide some good evidence of course. It seems plainly clear that, wishful thinking aside, when we died we’re gone, our bodies rot and our brains, which were the source of our minds, are irrevocably destroyed. I wish it were otherwise but I’d rather the truth to a comforting fairytale so I don’t accept that it is so.

All the best LindaLou

Russell