HI Egan,

Thanks for the honest information. I see and understand your process of seeking information. Here are some responses that may help explain my position and provide some useful information.


I'm taking the following quote from a post I made on another part of this forum complex. It helps explain the "Thou shalt not's".
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This may help you understand why there are so many "thou shalt not's.

There are two types of law:

(1) Negativistic and,
(2) Positivistic.

Negativistic law limits the evil among us in that it says things like: "Thou shalt not...". —It limits what evil can be done but permits all else. It says, "you cannot do these things" but all else is OK.

Positivistic law, on the other hand, limits and controls virtually everything we do. It's the kind of law man makes apart from God and is so overwhelming that it severly limits our freedom.

Under negativistic Biblical law, we can work in a trade, support our families, pay for necessities, and defend our property. We can barter, trade, work, and rest freely. None of this is against the law.

Under manmade positivistic law (socialism, actually):

—Before we can work, we have to attain a license to practice a trade.

—We then have to give part of what we earn (money, which actually represents our labor) to the government or we'll go to jail.

—We cannot freely trade without first recording, reporting and then paying taxes on what is traded.

—We cannot fix up our home without first getting a license or permit, then hiring only those who are licensed by the state to do certain kinds of work.

—We cannot freely travel for we must be licensed and insured, pay tolls, register our car, obey speed limits, etc.

—We cannot even paint our place of business or in some cases, our house without first attaining permission from the "authorities". To do so would be "breaking the law".

—We cannot pay a friend for some work they did to fix up our yard without creating a record of the event (1099) and reporting it to the "authorities".

—In fact, there is little I can do "legally" without first getting permission from the "authorities" or paying a tax or attaining a license (permission) or creating a record (1040).

This is the toil of positivistic law.

Biblical law, on it's face, may seem limiting at first, but then, what is limiting about not coveting another's property? Does this not actually protect someone elses property and rights?

What is limiting about not commiting adultry? Does this not actually protect someone elses rights?

When you take the time to understand Biblical principles, you begin to understand that Biblical law contains, in fact, the law of liberty; The law of freedom in that it does not restrict those who are good, as does positivistic law. Biblical law only restricts evil and allows any kind of good that you desire, so long as it does not hinder another's rights or destroy their property.

Biblical law—the law of liberty—is so short, it can be held in your hand and read in a small amount of time. Positivistic law restricts and controls virtually everything you do and would (in the United States, for example) fill an entire foodball statium to over three-feet in depth and cannot be read by any single human in a lifetime.

The United States once fluorished in the blessings of negativistic Biblical law. It now flounders under the weight and burden of manmade positivistic law.

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."

—Psalms 1:1-6


If the goal of seeking information is to find truth, then, when searching for truth in "religion", one axiom to live by is, "Don't judge a religion by the actions of those who claim it".

Christianity is probably the most slandered mainstream belief system in the world. Ironically, it appears to me that many—if not the majority—of people claiming to be Christians today are not truly Christians, if you define the belief system according to the book that records and defines it; the Bible.

The Bible defines a Christian as someone who believes that Christ is who He said He was.

"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:"
—1John 4:2

Now, this cuts right to the heart of the matter because if you really are a believer in Christ, you will make sure your life is in line with all that Christ said. If you believe He is the Son of God, you will be sure to listen and obey, and you will trust that to obey is for your own good.

Now, there are many who say they believe, but their life does not reflect this belief. In order to know the difference, we have to look carefully and closely.

Let's look at catholic doctrine. They say that they believe in Christ as "God with us", but their doctrine opposes it in countless ways (I'll save you from the list).

(1) Anyone who believes that Christ is who He said He was will read the Bible because that is the single most abundant source of information about Him.

(2) Anyone who reads the Bible and attends catholic church will begin to see the countless contradictions between the Bible and catholic doctrine. This person will eventually be driven to find a church that more accurately follows the teachings of Christ.

(3) Once a person is mature in the teachings of Christ, they may be inclined to return to the catholic church for the purpose of trying to help others realize the truth that they have found (after all, if you find something great, one of the first human instincts is to share it). They will not be terribly successful in this because if people attending catholic church wanted to know more about Christ, they would be reading the Bible in the first place. Nevertheless, it is a commendable effort.

For the above reasons, there are true Christians in the catholic church, but they are most often immature (because they're just beginning to get to know scripture), or they are quite mature and are trying to make a positive change, but eventually end up returning to a more accurate church.

I say all this to say that much of the bad reputation that is attributed to Christianity is (or should be) directed toward catholic doctrine and the historic activities of the catholic church. Because people assume that catholics are Christians, the blame for catholic activities is often shifted to Christians without knowledge of how completely different the two are.

Because real Christianity centers around a belief in Christ as the Son of God, and because so many who go to church claim to believe in Christ but don't read the Bible, and/or don't seek to know more about who Christ is and what Christ says, they are simply deceiving themselves and they lend to the slandering of Christianity.

Now, I mentioned that Christianity gets to the heart of the matter, and it does.

There is, in fact, much voilence in the Bible, in particular, in the Old Testament, but I have found that the people who don't understand the reasoning for this voilence will generalize and end up misunderstanding God in general.

The fact of life is that people are voilent.

Throughout history, people have killed, murdered, raped, burned and otherwise committed horrible acts of violence. People often get confused because God says in scripture that He hates violence, yet, He demands it at the hand of Israel often in the Old Testament in the form of conquoring foreign nations and killing the inhabitants thereof. This confuses those who don't understand human nature and/or Biblical concepts.

In the account of Abraham and Sodom, Abraham pleaded for the richeous in the city, that God would not destroy it if there were any richeous in it.

"And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right? And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes: Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it. And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake. And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there. And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake. And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake."
—Genesis 18:23-32

Lot, being the only richeous one, was saved from the destruction of the city.

It's important to understand the violence that was in the city which God destroyed. Understanding human nature is paramout as well.

We all (at least most of us) like to think of ourselves as special and good and right and just. We think our opinions are well thought-out and that we are pretty smart. Furthermore, we like to think that we deserve something or that we have earned something.

Now, if we didn't create ourselves, how is it that we believe that we own ourselves. If we didn't create time, how is it that we believe that we own our lives. If we don't live perfect lives in the eyes of the law (I speak of Biblical law in this case)—and none of us have, how is is that we can believe that we deserve something.

As a people-watcher, I have seen the ugliness of people. I have seen how selfish people are and how they are unwilling to sacrifice even their own comfort for the need of another. But this is only the tip of the iceberg.

I have also realized the depth of the connections between these selfish attributes. People who lie are prone to stealing. People who steal are prone to kill. Not that they definitely will, but they have already allowed themselves to become more selfish than they were before.

There is an old saying that depicts this truth:

"If a man would lie to you, he will steal from you. If a man would steal from you, he would kill you"

It is rare that a person who has already decided to become (more) selfish, makes a decision to change. This usually only comes with fear, and so fear is a useful thing, but usually, when the fear is gone, so is the change of heart, except for a very few.

But as for these who God determine to be captured or destroyed in the Old Testament, these were people full of violence, which God hates, and who had no hope of changing, and had God allowed them to continue, violence—burning their children in the fire, raping women, killing as offerings to idols which are only pieces of wood or stone—would only have flourished.

These are hard things to see—the true nature of man—and many spend considerable energy avoiding these types of thoughts (going into denial), nevertheless, they are true. If this evil nature were not restrained by God, if would destroy the entire world, and He intends on removing this restraint for a short time to prove this to mankind.

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
—Matthew 24:22

The fact is, He wants us to see ourselves for what we really are...

"But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup."
—1 Corinthians 11:28

...then to admint that we have a problem...

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
—1 John 1:9

...and finally, to change...

"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."
—Revelation 3:19

If you had a child and you explained to the Child that He had done something bad or harmful or hurtful and he/she only denied it, you would have no reason to expect a change. God has modeled these emotions in us in order to help us understand the purposes and processes of this life, namely, to reconcile us to Himself, and that, for His own pleasure.

Therefore, one of the most important things to realize in understanding God and His purposes is understanding that the nature of mankind is evil. Like any good Father, He intends on punishing us for the purpose of helping us grow up to be healthy and happy. Those who continually oppose Him and balk at His laws (which are for our own good) and refuse to change will eventually be destroyed because there is no hope for them. God Himself cannot change them:

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb [censored] speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
—2 Peter 2:1-22

The fact the people use the Bible to devise their own perverse ideas or commit violence is only a testimony to these things, namely, human nature.

The bottom line, people must read the book themselves if they care enough to know about Christ. Don't judge God by the activities or words of men. The Bible if the most slandered book in history. Nearly everything I see on television about the Bible is slanderous; Yes, nearly everything.


God does not ask us to work so hard.

The pleasures of the body are to be enjoyed in their proper (healthy and beneficial for all) context and the pain of the body will generally not occur unless brought about by evil mankind or our own disobedience, and only then for our own good. Even if the pain of the body is brought about by mankind, God does not allow it to be greater than we can bear:

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
—1 Corinthians 10:13

(Note that temptation includes pain in the context of pain that tempts you to sin, which would include all. It takes a little contextual reading to see this.)

I've read the Bible about 8 times and have conducted my own studies and I've learned that the only way to really understand what it says is to study it. It's easy to know the simple stuff, but for skeptics like me who need to ask "why" in response to every question I encounter, it takes time, and so I have invested the time.

If asked, I tell people that my Christian "walk" consists of learning how selfish I am and how forgiving God is. When I realze this, confess it, and change it, it provides me a freedom and power and fulfillment that is not a match for words (I won't even try). It must be experienced.

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."
—2 Titus 1:7

(In this passage, "sound mind" is better translated "self control".)

It's a relationship with a Person (God) that is forgiving, patient, loving, a technological genius, a passionate advocate for truth, and always looking out for my well-being. It's a relationship that changes you; makes you better, and is sometimes difficult (through no fault of His) as many worthy relationships are. It's a relationship that is very real.

In my search, the things that convinced me as to the truth behind the Bible is prophecy and gematria. To anyone with a skeptical intellectual mind who wants to "test" the scripture to see if it is true or not, I would recommend studying prophecy and gematria.

The final thing I will share is the purpose for all this. It pivots around a logic that is so simple that we can see its progression in our own society, and without all the evil mixed in (which one day won't be), it will be achived:

"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
—Revelation 4:11