Originally Posted by Bex
You are very fortunate that evolution has never blocked God from reaching you and that's wonderful. However, don't be deceived in assuming this is the case for all others, because it is evidentally not the case. Many have had their faith eroded over time due to evolution. Some may not succumb, others more vulnerable often do. I would not consider belief in origins unimportant....Consider this quote carefully -

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Psalm 11:3 "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do"?


If the foundations are rocky (unstable) - put in doubt, or in conflict with another- it can impact it to such an extent, that the rest of it can eventually topple down. The reason for our hope, is in the word of God (the Good News of salvation), which connects and follows on from what happened in the beginning. Grass roots Christianity. The one that doesn't simply rely on one being "swept away by "feel good" spiritual feelings", but rather grounded in the word, truth, which which the Holy Spirit Himself inspired and what our beliefs rest upon. One cannot build castles upon sand and expect them to remain standing.
You expect the plan of God for the salvation of the world to be destroyed if Christians accept the theory of evolution? I guess you only read Psalms 11:3 and not the rest.

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Psalms 11:4 The LORD is in His holy temple,
The LORD’s throne is in heaven;
His eyes behold,
His eyelids test the sons of men.
5 The LORD tests the righteous,
But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
6 Upon the wicked He will rain coals;
Fire and brimstone and a burning wind
Shall be the portion of their cup.

7 For the LORD is righteous,
He loves righteousness;
His countenance beholds the upright.


Psalm 11 is about the steadfastness of the Lord toward the righteous in the face of attacks of the enemy.

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Now, if we cannot really trust the things proposed in the beginning, pointed out clearly, directly in plain language....(that the rest of the word stands upon) what then do we rest our faith upon?

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Luke 16:31 "And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead

Did Moses write Genesis?

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Jesus Himself has through scripture, referred to the old testament truths and confirmed them (re-affirmed). He knew the necessity of one supporting/affirming the other.
He also knew that a story did not have to be historically accurate in order to convey a spiritual truth...hence the parables.

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‘The just shall live by faith.’ For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them. For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse. Because, knowing God, they did not glorify Him as God, neither were thankful. But they became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man…Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness…For they changed the truth of God into a lie…they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind” (Romans 1:16-28).


That would be Paul, not Jesus. It also does not reference the means by which God chose to create the universe, the world, and everything. It just tells how denying that God created the universe is foolish and can lead to reprobate behavior.

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Here too we see in 1 Timothy
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(ch. VI, v. 20-21) "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called; Which some professing have erred concerning faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.)
What translation are you using to put the word "science" in this place? Here's what my Bibles have where you put "science"

New International Version: knowledge
New American Standard: knowledge
Amplified Bible: knowledge and spiritual illumination
New Living Translation: knowledge
King James: science
English Standard: knowledge
Young's Literal Translation: knowledge.

What does Strong's say the word is? The Greek word is "gnosis". Strong's says it could mean knowledge, spiritual knowledge or science. The English used when the King James version was translated, had "science" and "knowledge" as interchangeable words.
Add to this the fact that 1 Tim is about how the teaching of the church is to be conducted, and it seems rather clear that Paul is not writing about the conduct of astronomy or biology.

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As Ikester has listed, the beliefs of Evolution and Creation are polar opposites. I have also listed the same somewhere in a previous post. The same argument frequently comes up "evolution can be reconciled with creation". This is not even honest, let alone plausible. Either one must make a liar out of God, or a liar out of man with this belief.
So men cannot be wrong in their interpretation of the Bible without being liars?

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Consider that God created all things in the beginning, GOOD. Our world, according to God, did not arise out of many years of death/suffering and evolution. Rather it began as He intended (perfect). Free from the effects of sin, death did not exist. What kind of God would create the world from the getgo with death and suffering, if nobody had yet exercised their free will? It was DISOBEDIENCE, that brought the curse. And the disobedience came from two people who had FULL knowledge of right and wrong. Degenerates they were not. Nor were they half evolved creatures, with half evolved knowledge. They were perfect in form and intellect, made in the image of God. These were the first two people God Himself created and God being perfect and unlimited, hardly needed a rough copy! or a drawing board to sit around and wait for it all to evolve over millions of years of death and suffering, since He Himself tells us all things were created good. Rather, it is original sin that has set the path for degeneration as time has gone on. Ageing, sickness/suffering, death, survival of the "fittest" are the result, NOT the starting point.

So you say that death is not GOOD. Then God ordering the death of the Midianites was an Evil thing? I thought God didn't practice evil?
Additionally, which part of God's curse, as stated in Genesis, says that death is one of the things God had to add to the world? A quote from the Bible would be your best support for this.

God said Adam would die on the day he ate of the fruit. But Adam didn't die on that day. So, what was this "death" that Adam brought into the world, apparently not physical death since that would make God a liar.

Please support your contention that the "death" brought into this world by the first sin is actually physical death. Bible passages are the preferred method of support in this case.

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That's if one believes in God at all and His word. It makes perfect sense, since it lines up for Christ's reason for coming and dying on a cross, reconciling us with the Father.
What our two first parents did, has been remedied by Christ, and the invitation to each and every human being is there and available for all (without exception).

And if there really wasn't a tree of the knowledge(science?) of good and evil, then sin doesn't exist and Christ was unnecessary? I don't see the logical leap here.

A faith that connot survive collision with the truth is not worth many regrets. -- Arthur C. Clarke