Originally Posted by LindaLou
Suggestions again: please read past posts here so that you understand what's already been discussed. Topics which are fresh for you here aren't necessarily fresh for us. We've had a lot of discussions about what evolution is and how it is studied. RAZD wrote some threads about this.

And also, calling scientists liars, or deceived, really makes little difference: you still need to put your money where your mouth is. Find a thread to maker some specific claims backed up by evidence, otherwise you are doing nothing but making ad hominem remarks.
Nice combo. Double standard & misdefining a term, all in one small package.

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You might also like to explain somewhere why the Bible should be taken as evidence that scientists are lying or deceived, which means explaining why what the Bible says should be believed over any empirical evidence. Thanks.
Deception and lies = empirical evidence? That sounds familiar, actually. I may have to take a peek at some of the old threads myself.

In the meantime, I doubt there ever has been or ever will be much conflict between the Bible and observations. Most folks don't define 'evidence' as "the conclusions of evolutionists", but RAZD has started a trend around here.

Using private definitions in this manner is deceptive.
Originally Posted by LindaLou
What sort of evidence for creationism would be acceptable-? If you are claiming it is a science, then scientific evidence is needed. Not lecutres about the "evils" of evolution, not more lectures (Russ) saying "know thyself" etc.

There are plenty of theists in the world. The vast majority of them are peace-loving, well-meaning people. And their views do not conflict with the discoveries of science. What we're looking at in this particular forum is the belief some people have that their faith requires them to claim that the earth is 6000 years old and that all life was created as it is now.

As I've stated elsewhere, if you want to call this "creation science," and if you want it taught in schools, then you need to show how it is science. There is no logic in then claiming that it should be exempt from the scientific method, which includes presenting evidence for claims.

Now if you're happy to call creationism a religion, and to say that everything is a miracle of God, then I doubt if many people would try to argue with you. What I find particularly objectioniable is the fact that if I lived in certain states in the US, my child might get a science teacher who wants to teach creationism as a valid alternative to evolution.

If this really is what you want, then you need to show it's a valid alternative. Evidence for that here is lacking so far.
Evidence is lacking?
http://herballure.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=34879#Post34879 sure indicates otherwise.

I followed up with a little more detailed look at radiohalo evidence. http://herballure.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=34908#Post34908

LindaLou...

Well, LindaLou has a limited set of responses to evidence.
1.) Call it "Pratt"
2.) Ad Hom
3.) Try to change the subject, usually by claiming that the "mountains of evidence for evolution haven't been addressed, and must be immediately"
4.) Fail to see it

I have attributed #4 to evogoggles, but she says this is in error. At the moment, I'm evaluating the other possibilities, but the evogoggles hypothesis looks pretty strong.

We have conducted extensive experiments, and each time the subject encounters evidence, we see the same responses. Our sample size is quite large, so I'm confident our results can be reproduced.

Dark Matter + Dark Energy = Dark Truth

"We find that such evidence demonstrates that the ID argument is dependent upon setting a scientifically unreasonable burden of proof for the theory of evolution." - Judge Jones Kitzmiller case
http://www.talkreason.org/articles/Falsify.cfm

"To Compel A Man To Furnish Funds For The Propagation Of Ideas He Disbelieves And Abhors Is Sinful And Tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" - Thomas Jefferson