Are you saying that the chemistry at work in our bodies is different than the chemistry that makes iron rust or gasoline burn?
No. Exactly the opposite. The rules are the same.
Does the chemistry in our bodies require some kind of intelligence in order to operate?
It is clear that intelligence already exists in the rules. Once the rules exist, stating that the reactions they incur require intelligence is a matter of semantics.
Actually, it is not all that clear. You and I might think that it is self-evident that there is a creator, but that is far from showing this is so.
By the way, intelligence in the designs/definitions of these rules is especially necessary if you believe that these rules were created (whoops!) ...exist in such a way that they caused matter to come together into highly-complex symmetrical self-reproducing forms. This would take a whole lot of forethought, and my question to evolutionists is:
"Who had this forethought?"
No. The question is still "Was there an intelligence?" You have not supported your contention that the existence of physical properties in the universe necessitates the existence of a "being" that created those properties. However, since I believe that a creator exists, I am willing to concede that point.
My admission that I believe in a creator quickly refutes your point that "evolutionists" have to answer your forethought question. My answer is God had the forethought. Good enough for you?
You mention the great distance between molecules preventing their organization into biological structures. Wouldn't that great distance also prevent their organization into non-biological structures?
Wow. My point has really become mangled here.
What I said was that these reactions are spatially-dependent, in other words, they cannot occur over great distances (only when they are sufficiently close to each other) and that they have no awareness of what is happening a sufficient (small) distance from themselves. Therefore, there cannot be a sense of coordination between some reactions happening over here and some happening over there, which is—of course—required for the formation of symmetry, not to mention coordinated-complexity.
Instead, there must be an Intelligence external to the rulesets themselves that assembled the components—having an in-depth knowledge of the existing rules—so that the final (highly-complex, symmetrical, self-reproducing) machine can be spatially coordinated, that is, that an organ (for example) would work in conjunction with other remote organs without having any knowledge or understanding of each other (think chemical messengers, nerves, etc.). (Organs are not intelligent but they are intelligently designed.)
If intelligent manipulation is required for these biological systems (plants, people...etc) to be constructed, where in the construction is that intelligence applied?
You say that molecules cannot construct symmetry by themselves. Does this mean that God puts his hand into the construction and growth of each individual organism otherwise it would fail to grow and function since it's molecules don't "know" how to construct themselves?
Perhaps the intelligence is only applied in the design of the DNA that produces the organism. So God produced the DNA for each species of organism that ever existed, then let the chemical and physical rules take over from there.
Maybe God only produced the DNA for one organism, a long time ago, and then allowed the rules that He put into place to cause that organism's offspring to differ from the original and thus produce various species that we see living today and in the fossil record.
At which point did God stop designing and let the rules He set in place take things to the end that He desired? More importantly what evidence do you have that your choice really is the point where He stopped.
Maybe God only put a few simple properties (rules) into place that would through time result in life forming and evolving into the life forms we see today. This is a real possibility since the rules seem to be enough to make this work even though you believe that life is a violation of the second law of thermodynamics.
(BTW: That might be a good thread on its own....how is the formation of replicating molecules a violation of the second law?)
Let me elaborate just a little to shed some additional light here.
It is clear that our bodies, which are in fact machines, are constructed in a way that isolates complexity (rulesets) into layered, progressive units.
For example, before we could have computers, we had to have transistors...
(and into the electronic analogy of layered rule sets and complexity)
Now I realize that an analogy can breakdown if scrutinized too literally. However, if we apply this analogy directly to the problem of life on this planet, we run into some confusing issues.
Each step in the analogy requires an intelligent hand in producing the next level of complexity. Are you saying that each change between generations of lifeforms is caused by God's hand? Wouldn't that mean each mutation is the result of God reaching down an monkeying with the genome of a particular species? Or does your analogy not really go that far?
