News you won't see in controlled mainstream media.

Who's Online Now
1 members (Russ), 940 guests, and 176 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
ShoutChat
October
S M T W T F S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Left Sidebar Ad
Popular Topics(Views)
402,628 DOES GOD EXIST?
312,063 Please HELP!!!
Support Our Forum
Herbs/Nutrition
Only The Best HerbsOnly The Best Herbs!
Your best source of world-class herbal information! More...
Mercury Detox
Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment by Dr. Andrew Cutler#1 Book We've Found!
"Silver" fillings, mercury detox, & much more. More...
Algin
AlginFor Mercury Detox
Prevent mercury reabsorption in the colon during detox. More...
Mercury Poisoning
DMSA, 25mg.Softcover & Kindle
Excellent resource for mercury detox. More...
EDTA 500mg
DMSA, 25mg.For Mercury Chelation
For calcium chelation and heart health. More...
Vaccine Safety?
Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices by Dr. Sherri TenpennyMust for Every Parent
The most complete vaccine info on the planet. More...
Stop Candida!
Candida ClearFinally.
Relief! More...
Saying NO To Vaccines
Saying No To Vaccines by Dr. Sherri TenpennyDr. Sherri Tenpenny
Get the info you need to protect yourself. More...
Nano-Silver
Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment by Dr. Andrew CutlerWhat everyone's talking about!
Safe, powerful, timely! More...
World's Best Vitamin E
Vitamin E wih SeleniumThere is a difference!
A powerful brain antioxidant for use during Hg detox. More...
It's All In Your Head
It's All In Your Head by Dr. Hal HugginsThis changed my life!
This book convinced me remove my fillings. More...
World's Best Multi
Super Supplemental - Full-Spectrum Multivitamin/Mineral/Herbal SupplementThis is what we use!
The only multi where you feel the difference. More...
Understand Hair Tests
Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities by Dr. Andrew CutlerHair Tests Explained!
Discover hidden toxicities, easily. More...
GABA
GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid)Have Racing Thoughts?
Many use GABA for anxiety and better sleep. More...
Pet Health Charts
Pet Health Charts for Dogs, Cats, Horses, and BirdsHelp Them!
Natural health for pets. More...
The Companion Bible (Hardcover)
The Companion BibleThe Bible We Use!
King James with study notes by Bullinger. More...
The Companion Bible (Softcover)
The Companion BibleThe Bible We Use!
King James with study notes by Bullinger. More...
Sweet Remedy
Sweet RemedyFood Additives
Protect your family from toxic food! More...
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#35871 05/25/08 03:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
I am using just ALA for chelation. I am taking 50 mg every 3 hours. Do I dare increase the dosage? I am in my third week at 50 mg dosage. If I do increase the dosage, is 100 mg every 3 hours too much? Perhaps I should stay at 50 mg at least a few more weeks? I can't find 25 mg tablets or capsules of ALA. The lowest I have found is 50 mg. If I try to break the 50 mg tablets in half, they probably won't break evenly. i realize that with a higher dosage I will get more symptoms. Will double the dosage mean twice as much mercury excreted, or will the difference be much less or much more than that? I am also taking MSM. Will that help increase the mercury excretion? Anything else to take(non prescription) that might help increase mercury excretion?

#35872 05/25/08 04:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,597
Master Elite Member
*****
As a general rule of thumb, you can/should/try increasing the dose after 3 rounds of manageable/limited or no symptoms or side-effects, both on and off rounds. If its comfortable then stay where you are, if the rounds are easy, then its ok to increase.

Any increase in dosage is recommended at not more than 50pct of the current dose. So you are at 50mg, so your next would be not more than 75mg.

Splitting caps is easy….just slip into drug-dealer mode…plate, empty caps (get the big ones) post-it-notes folded down the middle, credit card and chop up some lines! Do it by eye. Takes 5 minutes to master. I split all the caps for that round, take 20-25 mins total.

Should you increase the dose now???? remember, chelation will take a couple of years…the odd month here or there at the same safe dose is much better than going too quickly. Going too quickly just leads to problems and pain. There is no rush. 50mg of ALA is a fairly high dose, if it where me….its stick there for 3-4 more rounds, make sure I’m handling things fine.

Quote
Will double the dosage mean twice as much mercury excreted, or will the difference be much less or much more than that?
no, the difference is less...

Quote
By doubling the dose, you do not double the amount of mercury
removed. Andy has said that excretion only increases by about the square root,
or something like 20-30%, not doubled, so it's not worth too many extra symptoms
for a small increase in excretion.
taken from here http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/21912

if you search “square root” on Yahoo FDC you will have many explanations on many posts.

I didn’t know about MSM.


"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."

Sunshine
#35873 05/25/08 05:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
Thanks for the reply. The tablets I am using are round, so they would be quite difficult to cut evenly in half. i guess I should stick to 50 mg for at least a few more weeks, as the symptoms are strong, but not unbearable. If I won't get that much benefit from going to 100 mg, then I guess I might wait until I have very little in the way of symptoms at 50 mg before going to 100 mg.

#35874 05/25/08 06:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
Some people take up to 200 mg (I think even 300 mg in some cases). I recall Andy's book mentions 200 mg as well, so it's a dose that one can certainly work up to. But working your way up to such a high dose is another story and is not worth rushing into as Sunshine has wisely pointed out.

You can actually take up to 200 mg of ALA every 3 hours for 2 weeks if one wishes, but again it is about working up to tolerance before doing anything like this. And 2 weeks is a long time to be waking every 3 hours and other effects that could occur because of it (increases copper uptake etc). Unwise to take any supplements containing copper and zinc during ALA chelation if I'm not mistaken....Loss of sleep, broken sleep is not desirable or health promoting either. I would personally not go past a week. I usually found that I could not get past about 4-5 in chelation because the effects would intensify as the round wore on and by that point I knew it was time to break! I felt repulsive actually, though I was getting better at the sametime (this was just with DMSA alone).

50 mg is a really good dose. I know many people who are on TINY doses of the stuff. Even 1 mg can set some people off. E.g. 6 - 12.5 mg is a typical dose for those who simply cannot handle bigger doses. and this would be more than enough for them if they are getting symptoms. The process is happening either way. For some it may take a higher dose to get such symptoms.

That is your best indication. Symptoms. If you are handling 50 mg relatively well and it's too hard to get to 75 mg, then you must make the decision whether you feel that you can handle doubling the dose or not.....I have made such decisions in the past myself and sometimes the symptoms can catch up with you unexpectedly! So you gotta watch out for that one and not increase until you've done about 4-5 rounds on a certain dose before upping it. Usually my symptoms intensified as the round continued too. I started off not really noticing much (which can lead a person into a false sense of security) but as time wore on, they would worsen until I couldn't stand it anymore and had to stop the round and take a break. That is not a bad thing necessarily because the more toxic a person is with mercury, then the more symptoms there usually are and symptoms at least show something is happening.

Some people actually feel BETTER during a round! Some feel worse. Either way, it shows something is happening. So long as those symptoms are not frightening/intolerable. I never really got away with feeling better during chelation as such. Only occassionally did some symptoms improve during chelation. Most of the time I was well aware I was detoxing and would feel pretty awful. Sometimes I would cry and feel depressed, but there was usually an improvement of my condition at the end of it and usually in the very areas that had become worse during chelation. Though strangely enough, if I had a horrible backlash (redistribution) from following another protocol or taking stuff that mobilised the mercury into worse areas, I often found Andy's protocol would help improve/reverse the situation. So it corrected things for me sometimes also.

Anyway, keep on going and doing what you're doing. Sounds like you're well on your way to removing this horrible poison from your system. And Andy's protocol is an excellent choice to do it with. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twothumbsup.gif" alt="" />

You can handle garlic and MSM? It's funny that some mercury toxic people do really well on sulfur foods and supplements and others feel horrible on them. The extra sulfur for some people serves to mobilise too much mercury at times, so they have to be careful. Again you are the best judge of that and if you do well on sulfur, then go for it. I did better on sulfur as I became more detoxed of mercury and could handle it. But when I was highly toxic with mercury, sulfur moved it around too much...I'm sure bits came out because of it, but it was unpleasant to say the least at times. I would eat some of it, but I knew what to expect. I didn't give it up completely as I felt sulfur was still necessary for me and hair testing showed I needed more of it too. But because mercury tends to compete with it, replacing it tends to then displace the mercury or the extra sulfur serves to move it around more (Not sure exactly what happens, these are just things I've heard and seem to have experienced myself).


#35875 05/25/08 08:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
I feel much better when taking the ALA as far as mood and cognitive ability, however my physical symptoms get much worse. So far 3 days on and 4 days off seems to work well for me. At the end of 72 hours of chelation I feel too tired and need a break. I feel much better when eating the raw garlic. I stopped eating it for around two weeks and my candida symtoms got much worse. Raw garlic and olive leaf extract work great together. Grapefruit seed extract was giving a too strong reaction so I cut that out for now.

I just reread my first post in this thread. I wrote than I am in my third week of chelation. I guess I meant to say that I completed 3 weeks of chelation, and am just starting the fourth week.

#35876 05/26/08 02:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
Yeah, unfortunately yeast seem to flare up or grow when using ALA. I got a worse problem after just one round of ALA (but I was using high doses) and I can still feel it. Very weird.

Are you on a candida diet? I have to be. I cannot even really eat carrots. I have to be careful of not just sugars, but all higher carb foods. Antifungals don't work if one is not on the diet, because they continue to kill what a person continues to feed. A neverending cycle.

I wish ALA did not cause yeast issues so much, or it would have been a good one for me to use when I was mercury toxic I think. DMSA was ok, but still had potential to cause issues as well. I just had to be very very careful. If I took DMSA whilst not adhereing to my strict diet, that's when I was in trouble. But if I stuck to the diet, I was ok.

ALA? didn't matter, still caused issues anyway!

It's good to hear it's helping you with the mercury though and that's the main thing, as you want to cure the underlying condition. You get to figure out what dose suits you the best and how long the rounds should be for you personally. Though Cutler says not to go over two weeks in onetime.



#35877 05/26/08 02:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
I am wondering about dosage vs length of the chelation round. Would 100 mg per dose for 3 days on and 4 days off be more effective, or would 5 days on and two days off taking 50 mg per dose work better? How about just two days on per week at 100 mg per dose?

I spent a few weeks on a low carb diet, but then started eating some pasta and potatoes. I don't dare eat sugar or drink alcohol though. I think I need the carbs. I have been eating plenty of broccoli lately. I think the trick to eating carbs is to eat plenty of raw garlic soon after that.

When discussing chelation dosages, one should keep weight in mind. A 200 pound man might need double the dosage that a 100 pound woman would need to have the same effect. My weight is now around 175 pounds. Not so low, but not so high either. Perhaps I should be thinking about going to 100 mg per dose in a week or two? Should I try 50 mg per dose for 4 days in a row first?

#35878 05/26/08 06:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
Hi, I'm not sure which way would be more effective. I've thought about the same. Extention of round? Or increase of dose? Either one I'd say would cause a similar result. It is about increasing excretion of mercury and the longer the round, the more mercury is removed. The higher the dose? More mercury is removed ....however, if the dose is too high, then I think more mercury maybe pulled out than the body can keep up with and therefore a backfire may occur, which kind of undoes the good. I think it's good to experience symptoms and you can push that to a point where you feel really icky/uncomfortable, but should not push it to the point of making yourself go almost insane.....longer rounds is a more steadier manner of doing this I think, rather than a dramatic increase in dose.

You could certainly try extending the round. That is also very effective. I used to do an entire week on DMSA, though sometimes I didn't make it past 5 days or so because the symptoms would increase as time wore on, which also told me more mercury was being removed as the round continued (another sign?). And my body could only handle it for so long and then I'd find it too much and would have to take a break.

Maybe that is similar to increasing the dose. More mercury is removed, and you get indicators that it's time to break because you can only cope with so much.

If you can handle it for a longer time period, that might also be a good indicator that you maybe ready to increase the dose itself after you've tried a longer round and it's probably a safer more stable way to do it.....But also consider importance of unbroken sleep too, so you don't want to keep doing every 3 hour dosing for a week or more...unless you can handle it. I reckon 5 days sounds a good one! But 2 days off sounds a bit too short to me. Arn't you meant to take as many days off as on? E.g. 5 days on, 5 days (or more) off? Isn't that how it works?

When I took DMSA, Cutler's book said one week on, one week off (alternative weeks). Though this has changed, it is now recommended to start on 3 days on and take 3 or more days off as a break..... Not sure about 5 days on, 2 days off....

you could enquire on the frequent dose chelation group (Yahoo).
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/ They are very well informed on Andy's protocol and some on there are using ALA only and could no doubt tell you what has been mostly effective for them. Bear in mind, they are ULTRA conservative about dose on that group and they always err on the side of caution. It may seem almost TOO careful, but it's because some people have been hurt doing it too fast, too soon, or in the wrong manner. So they tend to seem a bit overboard in caution, but probably for good reason.

A low carbohydrate diet is pretty crucial to control yeast properly, and when you restrict not just sugar, but high carb foods also, you can feel uncomfortable because yeast dies off even further. That's why you may get the impression you need the carbs, but often it's the candida that needs them, not you! I could not get candida under control enough until I restricted my carb intake as well. Though once I was not so bad with candida and only had to eliminate sugar, wheat/gluten and yeast. I had mercury toxicity, but I did not have viral/bacteria problems that I have now, which have been worse and have enabled yeast do be much more severe than it was with mercury believe it or not. So back then I could still eat some cereals, some fruits, potatoes etc. You maybe similar to how I was!

Do whatever you feel works for you. We're all different. I cannot afford to deviate onto any high carbs these days, they feed my yeast almost as well as direct sugar! Potatoes and pasta would be a total nightmare to me. Even a small amount would send me into a severe relapse, which then means weeks and weeks of trying to get back on track. I'm amazed you can eat them, but you may not have it as severely as I do.

Pasta has wheat/gluten, which also another reason why I avoid it like the plague. Wheat is treated with mercury fungicide (apparently) plus contains gluten (which can screw up your gut by acting as a glue in the intestines, frustrating nutrient absorption, many people are gluten intolerant) and of course, high carb and feeds yeast. So it's bad for many reasons.

Potatoes, again, acts as a sugar inside the body, though it's natural and slow, it can still feed yeast very well. I can attest to that.

Probably two of the worst kinds of natural foods I could eat! That plus fruit and grain (even non gluten). I miss being able to eat high carbs, at least I was once still able to eat some potatoe chips and things. Even carob was a great non sugar treat. I cannot even have that now either. Things can change.



#35879 05/26/08 10:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
Does extending the round significantly increase the mercury excretion? I mean for example is 6 days on and 6 days off really much more effective than two rounds of 3 days on and 3 days off within the same time period?

#35880 05/26/08 03:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,597
Master Elite Member
*****
Quote
Does extending the round significantly increase the mercury excretion? I mean for example is 6 days on and 6 days off really much more effective than two rounds of 3 days on and 3 days off within the same time period?

yes. Longer rounds excrete more mercury and have less redistribution at the end. i.e you only get redistribution symptoms at the end of a round and if you did one long round instead of two short rounds…..you get the same redistribution but you only get it once not twice.

However, doing longer rounds is not straight forward, some people handle them, some can’t. I tried to extend mine twice now….on the last occasion, just one day extra caused a whole load of problems….was on my birthday too….nasty…..so for me…..3 days on is all I can handle for now. Just be careful and go slow…one extra day at a time.

From what you said….strong symptoms but manageable……I’d stay where you are, get a few more rounds under your belt. 50mg is excellent and high…there is no need to rush. Rushing is what causes problems. Chelation will take a couple of years in any event.

If you have tablets, then you can get a “pill splitter” to cut them…google it. http://www.auravita.com/products/aura/UNIC10822.asp?RefId=220&adid=UNIC10822
I have never used one, but I know lots of people do.

Me…I’m 7 months amalgam free, I have done 15 rounds of DMSA only and I just lowered by dose to 5mg, but I did increase the frequency to every 2.5 hours. That’s 45mg DMSA a day. I’d love to increase my dose but I have no urge to get more symptoms than I already do so I will stay here for a couple more rounds at least.


"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."

Sunshine
#35881 05/26/08 04:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
Now I am getting strong muscle ache just 28 hours into my fourth round of ALA chelation at 50 mg. I am now glad I didn't try 100 mg! I guess I need patience. Based on how I feel today, I think I might get a pill splitter and try 75 mg next. I actually saw one in a 99 cent store but didn't buy it. I wonder how evenly it will split round tablets though. I guess it does have to be perfect, but just reasonably close.

Is a strong reaction to ALA proof of mercury toxicity, or do some people who are not mercury toxic also get a strong reaction to it? I have never done a chalenge test or gathered other definite proof of mercury toxicity, just many symptoms that lined up, and that I had 25 mercury filings!

#35882 05/26/08 06:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,597
Master Elite Member
*****
25!

God almighty…………….25!

25 is your definite proof!

Reasonable close is good enough. You are dosing on the half life anyway, so should be fine.

Quote
Now I am getting strong muscle ache just 28 hours into my fourth round of ALA chelation at 50 mg
You will have to chelate for a long time, a couple of years, maybe 70-100 rounds…life should be good….life should not be stuffed full of side-effects from chelation, maybe short term you can handle them….but long term…..slow, low and steady is more manageable.

Quote
Is a strong reaction to ALA proof of mercury toxicity
I believe it is, but you’d have to check over on yahoo frequent dose chelation, they would know for sure……. I’m fairly sure it is, but not 100pct sure. Check there.

25! Holy moly!


"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."

Sunshine
#35883 05/26/08 06:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
I agree with Sunshine, caution is the best way to go. The fact you are still getting some strong symptoms on 50 mg, after just 28 hours indicates it's actively chelating metals (of some kind and no doubt it's mercury). If you had 25 amalgams, that is (I think) a no brainer. Unless you are one of those lucky lucky people who seem to be able to excrete it better than others. I doubt even the most healthy person would last too long being healthy with that amount of fillings in their mouth. If they do, sometimes it only takes another knock to the health before the poisoning sets in. Just one more challenge on their immunity and often they slip into chronic toxicity. Which may indicate the mercury was building up in their tissues all along, but they didn't notice the effects. It catches up often one way or the other. I never noticed much at all, (though looking back I can see how it may have affected me), but once I had braces placed on my teeth, that's when all hell broke loose and all the years of having amalgams suddenly showed it's effects.

I think having a strong reaction to ALA is proof of mercury (or other metal toxicity) yes. I only got strong reactions when I was mercury poisoned, but didn't get anything when I wasn't....only a flare up of my yeast problems and that was it. No real symptoms otherwise. I may as well have taken a sugar pill! Because it was pointless.

I did most of my chelating with DMSA though, I never really did the ALA. I probalby should have though but I think DMSA did most of the job. I tried ALA once and had a very strong reaction to it. But once the mercury was mostly out of me, trying ALA again, even on very high doses did nothing. I gather my organs don't have much in there these days. My health problems are different now though and are infection related, rather than metal toxic related.

You may not need to bother with a challenge test. The symptoms alone on a chelation round can be pretty diagnostic! Even Andy says in his book that some try around 100 mg or more of ALA as a challenge test and he mentions the symptoms themselves as being a strong indicator on their own! He did say to those that will try higher doses like this to be careful and warn other people of the possible symptoms that might follow.

Chelation doesn't do a thing for me now, so I've pretty much ditched it. I've thought about trying DMSA again at some point and make sure it's a longer round and see if anything happens, but frankly I don't think it will. Certainly if there "is" any mercury, I doubt DMSA would get it. It would likely be organ/brain mercury, but my ALA trial didn't seem to indicate anything was there and I got a worse case of yeast for trying!

If you split the tablets, just do it as well as you can. It doesn't have to be "perfect". If you're not sure about it, I'd do a few more rounds on the same dose as you are, and then try and lengthen the rounds a bit. Increasing dose can come later and as Sunshine said, you're on good dose as it is and looks like it's doing something anyway. It's not a race! A backfire is not something you want to experience and then take time to try and recover from.

No matter how perfectly you try and do this, how fast, you will usually be chelating for about 2 years. Again, just as Sunshine pointed out. I was starting to dump mercury by age 26 (I had amalgams out by age 24), so it took about a year and a half or so before the organs began to dump the stored mercury. That was agonising once it started, and then by age 27 I was constantly going through that natural detox, but speeding it up with mobilising agents and chelating agents etc, and started to come out of it by age 29. You notice ups and downs during that time. For me it was a very very painful transition to health. I was often bedridden with symptoms, crying, salivating, shaking during my healing crisis to health. Much of that was intolerable and unnecessary and caused by messing around with all kinds of stuff to 'detox mercury". Cutler's was the key to a more effective, stable way to remove the mercury. I think that's what really got me there in the end to be honest. It also cuts down the risk for damage created by redistribution.

I had a very very long drawn out journey because my body just didn't do a thing with the stored mercury until nearly 2 years after the last removal, which is unusual. So I didn't know it was there, I didn't understand mercury poisoning at that time. So I simply wasn't detoxing either way. Most people will start dumping earlier and are almost forced to detox from then on. Your body tries to do it by itself, but it is obvious it needs help.

#35884 05/26/08 06:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
Have you tried eating raw garlic? It helps me greatly with the candida symptoms. I eat a clove or two after a large meal. I cut it into small pieces, chew it well, and swallow each piece with plenty of water. Don't eat raw garlic on an empty stomach, or more than two cloves of it after each meal. Also make sure to wash it down with plenty of water.

#35885 05/28/08 01:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
Wow! This last round(number 4)of chelation was tough. I couldn't even finish it, and stopped it two doses too early. It started out reasonable enough, but the muscle ache became debilitating as it progressed. I guess 50 mg of ALA is plenty!

#35886 05/28/08 03:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,597
Master Elite Member
*****
There you go…..take things nice and easy…there is no rush this chelating malarkey. Stick at 50mg or maybe reduce if things remain tough. There is no need to put up with tough rounds when the solution is simply to slightly reduce the dose.

Congrats for having some patience, I know its tricky when the urge is get better full steam ahead.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twothumbsup.gif" alt="" />


"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."

Sunshine
#35887 05/28/08 07:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
My last dose of ALA was around 16 hours ago and I still have the muscle ache. Now I am starting to think the muscle ache is from the raw garlic and olive leaf extract I have been taking, as it has probably been destroying plenty of candida. I guess I need it, but perhaps I should limit myself to one small clove of fresh garlic and just two olive leaf extract capsules each day?

#35888 05/31/08 09:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
I am still hving plenty of strong muscle ache, a few days after I stopped taking ALA. I am scheduled to start the next chelation round tommorow, however I am afraid to start it. Perhaps I need a few weeks off? I don't want to go to a lower dose, and am afraid that if I have strong muscle ache without the ALA, I might have severe muscle ache with even a small dose of ALA. It is weird since the first 3 weeks at 50 mg went so well, and I was almost ready to raise the dose.

What is happening now? Is mercury redistributing?

#35889 05/31/08 11:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
I just took some St. John's Wort. I remembered that it was helping me several months ago, but after a while I stopped taking it as I felt I didn't need it. I think it really helps with the muscle ace/fibromyalgia, and also helps with my mood. I have been very irritable lately.

#35890 06/01/08 03:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,597
Master Elite Member
*****
Quote
What is happening?

What is happening to you is completely normal during chelation. The reactions you get are standard. Each round is slightly different in any event, varying symptoms is completely normal.

This is the reason why the initial starting dose should be low to start with. It takes a couple of rounds to get going. The dose is built up gradually as your mercury body burden is lowered.

Quote
I am scheduled to start the next chelation round tommorow, however I am afraid to start it. Perhaps I need a few weeks off?

Simple: Then delay the round. If you are not feeling ok, then doing another round will just make you feel worse and take longer to recover from. Chelation is hard work for your body and it needs a rest to recover inbetween rounds. Just delay by a couple of days, a week if you need. You seem in such a rush…..the more you rush the more easy problems can creep up on you…..there is no rush…chelation takes time, the effects are like watching a clock…..you cannot see the hands moving but they are and over time you will get better.

Quote
I don't want to go to a lower dose
why not? If you lower the dose you will get less symptoms. Lowering the dose does not massively reduce the mercury removed. As I said before, chelation take a long time….so when you chelate you need to be able to function, to live your life….there is a lower dose that will give you no or only mild side effects…find it and stick with it. 50mg ALA is a real HIGH dose to be starting with. There is no shame in reducing the dose, you have nothing to prove to anyone ……… I just reduced my dose from 6mg to 5mg and I have done 15 rounds with dmsa only. I have also extended the length of time inbetween rounds. I was doing 3 days on 4 days off, but gonna do 3 days on, 11 days off.

I would also suggest you join Yahoo Frequent dose chelation group. The people there are much more experienced than I and you will get a wider spread of advice/explanations. You will learn much from reading other peoples problems/success. It is dedicated to the Cutler protocol.

If i where you, i'd half the dose to 25mg and rest a few more days until you feel a tad better.

Good luck.


"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."

Sunshine
#35891 06/01/08 12:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
Thanks for the response. I went ahead with the 50mg ALA dose on schedule, however a few days ago I stopped the MSM and raw garlic, as I wondering if these caused or at exacerbated by unpleasant symptoms. It is so hard to figure out what is causing each bad reaction, and if a bad reaction means accelerated healing, or just an allergic or otherwise unproductive reaction. Perhaps I might need to step up my anticandida supplements when I am off ALA, and not take those supplements(especially garlic) while on ALA? I am wondering if MSM should only be taken while taking ALA, as MSM might stir up mercury and if ALA isn't present it might be mostly redistributed rather than being excreted. So far I am feeling okay with the ALA dose, although it is just one hour since I took it.

#35892 06/01/08 01:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
What is the affect of ALA on other metals besides mercury? I read that is suppresses excretion of excess zinc, so zinc supplements should not be taken while using it. Does it affect iron, copper, calcium, magnesim, molybdenum, manganese, iodine, etc.?

#35893 06/01/08 01:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 573
Elite Member
***
jk, cutler says it causes retention of copper as well. he also says it chelates arsenic. he also says mercury causes other metals to accumulate and if u get mercury out others should too on their own. plus ala is an antioxidant and helps buld up gluthathione and that helps too.

Last edited by jinx1983; 06/01/08 02:37 PM.
#35894 06/01/08 03:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
Thanks. I just took my second dosage of ALA in this round, and am feeling pretty good except for mild muscle ache. I am glad I started this round on time, and not at a reduced dosage. I need to get myself in much better shape before the very hot weather and thermal inversions(stagnant air and high pollution)set in, otherwise I might feel very miserable then.

#35895 06/01/08 06:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
I took the third dose an hour ago. I am still feeling pretty good today. Better than yesterday when I wasn't taking the ALA, except that I am having mild muscle ache like I had with the first three rounds of chelation. The fourth round was a doozy though, although I don't know how I will be feeling towards the end of this round.

#35896 06/02/08 06:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,597
Master Elite Member
*****
Good luck, keep updating us. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."

Sunshine
#35897 06/02/08 04:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
Chelation is so unpredictable. A round might be easy or suddenly have symptoms flare up. It is hard to make plans and live a normal life on chelation days.

#35898 06/03/08 11:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,597
Master Elite Member
*****
I chelate at work.

My symptoms/side-effects from chelating are so mild its not a problem to work and chelate at the same time, that I believe is whole point of the low dosages…low enough so that life can continue as normal as possible.


"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."

Sunshine
#35899 06/03/08 07:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,403
Master Elite Member
***
It is good that you can continue to function normally while chelating. I can't I just had strong symptoms from my last dose of ALA. I guess that in the 24 dose round, the symtoms may be especially strong from the last 6 or so doses? Do the symtoms really correlate with the amount of mercury being removed?

#35900 06/03/08 11:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
Hi JK, I was on DMSA not ALA, but I found very similar. I had some tougher rounds and some easier rounds (even without change of dose). So I think it is indeed the rate of mercury removal and perhaps it peaks and dips sometimes, as it does naturally as well, even without chelation. Chelation just speeds it up and sometimes increases symptoms, OR can help suppress them a bit.

It is unpredictable as you said, but I find Cutler's is less unpredictable than most other protocols I tried and did at least, to "some" degree, control symptoms that would have been much worse had I kept going on the other protocols which I found intolerable.

I used to get symptoms of being tired, drained, muscle aching, sometimes massive brain fog, or sometimes weepy and depressed, or even hyped up. I'd get swollen tongue as well sometimes. REally bad when I was really chelating the stuff out. At times, during chelation, there would be no way I could have worked or done much at all. I really felt pretty revolting sometimes. Other rounds weren't so bad. But over time, I knew I was getting better. There was just less mercury in me to cause problems as much and even high sulfur foods didn't produce as many symptoms as they once did. Which I think was also an indication of less metal to mobilise.

My symptoms during chelation would increase as the round went on. I may have been ok the first day or so, but after that I would really start feeling it kick in. This is why you need to be careful not to increase the dose too soon. Sometimes you find that out the hard way. You should do about 4-5 rounds on the same dose before you decide to increase. That's what I heard anyway and I think that's good advice.

#35901 06/04/08 09:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,597
Master Elite Member
*****
Yes, symptoms usually build up the longer on round you are. They get progressively worse as the round progress’s if the dose is too high for your body to handle.

Symptoms correlate to the amount of mercury being redistributed, i.e. not being excreted, i.e. your body is unable to remove all the mercury you move.

At the risk of being boring and sounding like a broken record, these symptoms are avoidable if you lower the dose.

50mg ALA every 3 hours is 400mg ALA per day…that 1200mg per 3 day round…that’s moving a lot of mercury, which is why you get harsh symptoms.

If you had rollercoaster symptoms I would suggest increasing the frequency to every 2 or 2.5 hours but you have not mentioned that so I will stick with lowering the dose.


"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."

Sunshine

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.1