http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/health/s_566355.html

EDTA, fast push (needle in the arm, not IV)

Sad. I've heard EDTA given in that way is dangerous even for adults.

I was chelated with EDTA, slow drip. it went well.

Personally, even the idea of putting children on something like the Cutler protocol, with continuous rounds of DMSA bothers me quite a bit. they aren't adults, they are still growing, they are a lot more sensitive to things.

Doctor should have known better.

Not sure why he was even using EDTA because it doesn't chelate Hg. With all chelation you should make sure you have sufficient levels of the good minerals and vits (especially with children I would think). The medical powers that be are going to jump all over this one.

Edta is generally for lead but some people say that fast push edta removes mercury real well too. The DMPS was fine for me, but even that was sort of slow drip the way my doc did it.

One time, this was not a dmps day... one time I wanted to get out there quickly so when the nurse went out of the room I opend up the iv so it would drip faster (EDTA). Well... I got real yellow (the edta solution is yellow) for a few hours and I felt like crap and I was real b*tchy.

never did that again, make the iv drip faster. wasn't real helpful for me.

Sad case, its so hard to even try things on yourself much less your own child. Hard decisions to make and not alot of info from docs. Have to depend on your own research. Not easy thats for sure.

EDTA will only take Hg out of your blood system if it's there, so it will only chelate if you are currntly being exposed to Hg or have been exposed within the last 48 hours. It's generally understood in the comparison studies that it chelates virtually no Hg. However, Calcium EDTA (The none Yellow EDTA) if dripped in after an IV of DMPS will greatly increase excretion of Hg. I did this towards the end of my 2.5 year chelation.

This is so very tragic and sad. I was asked to take this push challenge with DMPS in the beginning of discovering I was mercury toxic but I was too weak to handle taking most herbs, much less have this test done. After reading more about it, I became aware of how dangerous it can be for adults, much less children. My 2 year old son has not been diagnosed as Autistic but he does show many of the symptoms of Autism/Mercury Poisoning. I have been giving him the Mercury I magnetic clay baths every week or every other week and he has shown some improvement from them. They seem to have a calming affect on him right after each bath and he also gets a full nights rest when he as them.

This is an interesting site on DMPS - http://www.dmpsbackfire.com/default.shtml
It discusses the dangers <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/skullbones.gif" alt="" /> of using this chelation agent. Everyone and anyone involved with the possibility of using this non-FDA-approved chemical should read this !
Thank God you refused this treatment and are finding alternative ways of helping your child !
My best to you and your family <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/byebye.gif" alt="" />
Kindest regards
D

Hi there DeeCee

DMPS is safe if taken appropriately. If taken at the half life, on a frequent dose schedule, in low doses, as per the cutler protocol, then its fine. That’s dosing every 6-8 hours around the clock even waking at night, 3 days on 4 days off.

It is only when DMPS is taken in an inappropriate protocol style that the problems occur. If you take large doses, and/or on an infrequent dosing schedule, and/or with IV…this can cause some people to have large redistribution symptoms and consequently suffer the nasty consequences as detailed on that website. You will also see many people reporting these problems on this and other mercury dedicated forums.

But, its important to understand it’s the “dosing style/frequency&quantity” that has the good or the bad effect and not DMPS in itself…because dosed appropriately, as per the cutler protocol, it is safe.

This obviously applies to everything in life, after all if you drink too much water you will drown. Everything needs to be done in moderation and especially so when you mess with the mercury.

Many people chelate with DMPS using the cutler protocol and they are fine.

You should really check first before making blanket statements like this.

Firstly, if any doctor uses a drug or medical procedure that is not FDA approved then they go to jail, simple as that. DMPS is on an FDA list to be used by compounding pharmacy's and doctors can order it for use, permission of the FDA. It's regularly used as a treatment for Hg poisoning in Germany and Russia. The only reason it isn't approved here is that the company bringing it to market ran out of money (Bankrupt?) during the studies. On reading the dmpsbackfire site, the statements etc by the person who setup the site clearly has a vendetta against DMPS. If DMPS was to be removed from the market then this “Wonderdrug” would be lost to us, not because it itself is dangerous but because of doctors not knowing what they’re doing.

The problem with DMPS is that it is so effective at pulling Hg out of the body that you end up getting symptoms as though you were just poisoned with Hg. It's not DMPS that gives these symptoms it's the Hg. Getting the Hg out as efficiently as possible would seem to be exactly what you would want.

I have spoken to some of the people on the dmpsbackfire site and know a couple of them for along time. Essentially, these are the people who either got the early symptoms of Hg poisoning from using DMPS and it frightened them and they (mistakenly in my opinion) stopped, or where practiced on by doctors who didn't have a clue how to prescribe the use of DMPS. There's one guy in particular who had two doctors literally experimenting on him to find the right dose, but started with some huge amount, almost killed him. All drugs are dangerous, some 200,000 people a year are estimated to die from Doctor prescribed drugs each year in the USA alone. Add in inadequate data on prescribing and you have the potential to do all kinds of damage. You have to know that the Doctor using this has allot of experience chelating. In fact, the doctor I saw that did my DMPS chelation coined the phrase dmpsbackfire when he was presenting how to safely use DMPS to a conference. The backfire part is the mobilization of the Hg out of the body and it’s potential for harm. Lastly, people who have been “cured” of Hg poisoning using DMPS are legion, and as you would expect, the few that have had a bad experience for whatever reason are very few, but vocal. You could compare this with what is going on with plastic surgery, every doctor has the credentials to do PS, and seeing what money can be made, some go for week courses on these procedures. If you want to be really horrified, go and look up the results of PS practiced by doctors with little or no experience.

As far as FDA lists, Aspirin and Amalgam fillings have never been tested either, and are on FDA lists for use by doctors and dentists. If they weren’t dentists would go to jail for using mercury fillings (actually I think they should be jailed for this anyway). It’s the unfortunate result of profit.

As far as using this on children, well I couldn’t comment, only to say that it would seem to be the wrong thing to do to mobilize so much Hg (using DMPS IV) in a child that is developing neurologically (if not impossible in using IV’s on children). Two other methods of using DMPS, suppositories and Transdermal seem to be fine with kids and are being used successfully by more and more doctors, especially in the UK. I’m guessing because it introduces DMPS in much smaller amounts than using an IV.

You're right; it can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

I hope you don't think I'm being flippant here, but how do you know that you are Hg toxic if you never had a test?

Something that might help you and is something a couple of doctors have imparted to me (I know this to be true for me as well). If you find that you're "sensitive" to everything it is most likely to be the yeast (Candida) overgrowth that is causing it. If you go about cutting carbs and take some of the antifungal herbs etc after about two weeks (depending) your sensitivities will either go away or be greatly reduced. However, you'll first have to deal with the yeast dieoff (Hergesheimer) reaction. Inevitably, this will return if you have Hg poising, the only way to finally banish Candida is to get rid of the Hg. I also used Nystatine powder as it was the quickest way to kill the yeast. Don’t let the doctor prescribe any other drug for yeast problems because they all have damaging affects on the Liver (as I found out to my detriment).

The reason for the calming affect from clay baths is the dermal absorption of Magnesium. Hg toxic people use huge amounts of Mg usually because of their Candida infections. Putting it back both has a calming affect and lowers your Blood pressure.

Sunshine,

I think you're getting your D's mixed up.

Many people chelate with DMSA (not DMPS) using the cutler protocol. Taking DMPS every 6-8 hours for toxic people would almost certainly kill them. I only got an IV of DMPS every two weeks and I get the impression some people think that was too often. I don't think Any liked DMPS very much. Though, the latest version, Trans dermal (TDDMPS) can probably be given much more frequently because of the very low doses involved. Maybe Andy is recomending this now?

I'd probaby be a cripple in a wheelchair if it weren't for EDTA and DMPS IV chelation.
really, not kidding. Within a short span of a few months I went from being a very active person to one who was quickly losing the ability to literally walk, walking was becoming extremely painful, not to mention the dozens of other related symptoms. EDTA helped me, but DMPS saved my life. And I only had about 7-8 treatments of DMPS. Within several short weeks I was getting back to normal, thanks to DMPS in particular. Colon cleansing, diet, vitamins, none of it did barely more than squat for me before the DMPS treatments. May have kept me from literally dying, the colon cleansing especially, but it did not relieve my major symptoms, numbness in my arms and hands, extremely painful joints, aching bones, etc, i was very sick.

Personally I think that dmpsbackfire site does more harm than good. Any thing of this nature has to be done properly, and that includes with a proper attitude and follow through by the person receiving treatment, which many of the testimonies at the dmpsbackfire website quite clearly express that that was not done by a good number of those people.

It's interesting how people who have never used DMPS IV chelation have such strong negative opinions about it, but if you ask around, and probably why many people who have used that are not hanging around here, is that total recovery within a realistic timeframe is actually possible with DMPS. I actually should have gone in for more IV's but between my work being disrupted and my bank account beginning to fail as a result, I only did 7-8 treatments of that (many more of EDTA) and then found I was able to chelate with cilantro, hitherto the IV chelation I could only eat tiny bits of cilantro without breaking into a major sweat attack and feeling very very bad. I could not eat garlic without getting a nasty migraine.

DMPS gave me my life back. I was extremely lucky, blessed, to find a doctor within driving distance who knew how to use it.

I also noticed btw, that quite a number of those stories at the dmpsbackfire sit are from people on health kicks who tired using DMPS. I imagine it did make them feel pretty bad. All things in perspective I guess, to me who felt really really bad to begin with, it gave me enormous sudden relief. When you are really truly sick with a verified case of mercury poisoning, there is nothing I know of on this planet that will start you on the road to recovery like DMPS IV chelation. It's fast, it's also affordable. Real heavy duty mercury poisoning can make you bedridden with a matter a weeks if you don't take steps to clean it out of your blood as quickly as possible.

gosh before I chelated I was writing my last will and not just for the heck of it.

Hi 40yrs old.

Nope, I didn’t mix my D’s up.

With the Cutler protocol you an chelate with DMSA, DMPS or ALA. They are taken orally. ALA is the chelator of choice because it crosses the BBB and can chelate the brain, whereas the other two cannot.

Some people tolerate DMSA better than DMPS, some vice versa. People generally find DMPS better and more effective with less side effects and it’s more convenient as dosing is every 6-8 hours with DMPS as apposed to 3-4 hours with DMSA. However DMPS is prescription only and more difficult to get hold of because you need a doctor. However when you start chelating with ALA dosing of ALA is every 2-3 hours so can take DMSA at the same time.

Everyone is different and tolerates these things differently.

Obviously if you frequent dosed DMPS at high doses of 400mg-800mg then yes death will be a possibility, although some people will be just fine.
Frequent dosing at low doses is however fine and many people do exactly that as per the Cutler protocol, slowly working up the dose to as high as they can handle with as little side effects as manageable. The lower the dose the fewer the side effects.

If I could find a doctor to help me, advise me and prescribe me DMPS I would try it and see how I got on with compared to how I handle DMSA.

If you have Cutlers book, please see page 89, but the book is full of comments about DMPS and what/why and how it does what it does.

Not sure if you can see this webpage as you need to be a member, but this is ”TK’s General Suggestions for starting oral chelation using Andy's Protocol” from Yahoo Frequent Dose Chelation group. (from the file section)

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wOctSK...gestions%20-%20PLEASE%20READ%20%21%21%21

I have just copied over the section about DMPS. If you can see that page it details the entire Cutler protocol in its basic form.

Quote

………..Most can't chelate for extra long periods. This is especially true when you add ALA and are dosing every 3hrs or more often. But with DMPS, which is taken every 8 hours (due to its longer half-life), people can chelate longer or even continuously with low dosages, as you don't have to wake up to take doses in the middle of the night.

ALA causes less copper to be released during rounds possibly causing
problems in the long-term (especially for copper toxic people) so the
off-days are very important to allow the balance to return to your system if you have problems with copper.

DMPS - Round one 5-10mg every 6-8hr around the clock for 3 days and
nights, the other rules [missing dose etc] are the same as with DMSA
and still apply.

Round 2 & 3 DMPS the same thing.

Round 4 DMPS if everything is going well and no intolerable or bad
side effects increase dosage to 10-15mg.

Round 5,6,7 DMPS same as above.

Round 8 - DMPS & ALA - If it has been at least 3 months since amalgam
removal or Hg exposure, and if, at this point, you are still doing well or better add 12.5mg ALA and do another 3-4 rounds.

Round 11,12,13 - DMPS & ALA - Increase DMPS if still doing well to
20mg.

Round 14,15,16 - DMPS & ALA - Increase ALA to 18-25mg and see how you
do.

After this point increase dosages of chelators by weight [the usual range is 1/8 mg per pound to 1/2 mg per pound] and symptoms, remembering not to increase by more than 50% of the dose you are taking.

If you cannot tolerate the ALA when you try to add it just continue
with the DMPS alone, gradually increasing dosage over time and numbers of rounds to tolerance. If you happen to do better on round
than off an option is to extend the round a few days 4-6 and see how
you do.

If you still do better on round at this point try a week or two, some people can chelate continuously with low doses of DMPS until they feel they are ready to add some ALA.

………..

unquote

as I said this is just the DMPS part of the protocol.

Re TDDMPS: I don’t follow this too much, but I understand Andy Cutler does not recommend this style of chelation. I don’t remember if its because he thinks it does not work because the chelator does not enter the blood stream in a uniform way, or because he has not experienced/experimented with this style. I don’t remember which, but I do know this is not part of his protocol. If you search Yahoo FDC there are many posts about this.

Hi Sos. Yes I don’t doubt a word you said whatsoever. I was very careful to use the word “some” because “some” people, you for example, do fantastically well and get cured just fine and dandy using this protocol. Works wonderfully for some people.

However “some” people don’t, “some” people get hurt, “some” people get real scared and run a mile never to chelate again and “some” people get royally screwed up and they never ever recover.

I see repeated posts on these mercury forums every single week about people that have been hurt chelating with this style, just as I see people like Sos getting better.

However I have not seen anyone following the Cutler protocol get “royally screwed up.” yes, everyone, without exception, has had bad rounds, but people following the cutler protocol do not have “massive problems” as some people do experience when using other chelation styles. I’m talking serious damage putting health back 6 months or more. Because doses on the cutler protocol are smaller, any problems are less severe.

This exact discussion goes on very frequently on the yahoo groups…I quote a post from today from Yahoo Adult-metal-chelation on this very subject….

quote

Undoubtedly some people have done well on IV DMPS. But many people have also suffered devastating, permanent health problems from it.

I don't see this as indicating that the truth resides in the middle. (the post was about which chelation protocol was better and someone said maybe the truth lies inbetween the two styles??) I see it as pointing to the fact that this is a very risky protocol.

Why roll the dice with a protocol that has the potential to do such harm - when a far safer one is available?

Unquote

I could not have put it better myself…..why take the chance when there is a safer protocol?

How I am to know that I will be the lucky one and get cured with no problems, when I could easily be the unlucky one and get screwed. My health/life is way to precious to take that risk. Anyway, there is a proven, tested, safe protocol and I choose to use that one. The Cutler protocol.

I have had DMPS (as I've mentioned on here a few times now) and it messed me up so badly that Cutler's was the only one to finally get me out of it in the end. I have a firsthand reason for having some negative opinions about it. And if you ask on other forums, e.g. frequent dose forum, there are some there trying to undo the effects from other protocols and DMPS is only one of them. They are not just people new to chelation. What Cutler said can happen, DID happen to me in just the way he warned.

40yrs

DMPS has the ability to release a load of mercury in one go, so much so that I think has the potential to do damage in some cases, as would anything releasing too much mercury at once. I agree that it's not the DMPS itself, but the mercury that has the potential to cause such harm. If one reads the DMPS backfire reports, it isn't just a case of massive detox, there are cases of damage on there that people are still suffering from LONG after the DMPS was given. I've read some of those reports and they are totally devastating and long term. People need to read them for themselves if they are under the impression that it's not such a big deal and these guys should just "keep on going" with DMPS. That is totally irresponsible given what some of those people had happen to them.

....maybe it is a case of it being in the wrong hands, I don't know. As everybody is different, it would be hard to tell whether it is that, or their body simply cannot handle such a load of hg being released in one session. Damage can definitely occur. I still to this day, do not know whether I was damaged by it or not. I know that my recovery took years and part of that was still stored mercury coming out over time admittedly - but part of it was recovering from so much hg being shunted all over the place by one DMPS IV. And that is all it took for me.

Once that happened, the doctor didn't want to know and couldn't careless about the aftermarth. As I have said before, plenty of people have tried various protocols before Cutler's and I am just one of many. Why would we need to investigate on the internet to find something to help us, if these other protocols that many doctor's use are the ticket? Why would I have resorted to searching the net? Once I got on Cutler's I started to get the stuff out of me more safely and it also corrected a few ongoing symptoms from other protocols that I was unable to get rid of.

That's when I started recovering. Recovery is ALWAYS slow, and I can attest to that. I tried all manner of things. There is no fast way to get hg out of a person. NO matter what you do, the person's body still has to handle the hg coming out into the system and alot of this depends on the person's constitution and ability to eliminate toxins. Some recover more quickly, others do not.

Once a person gets their amalgams out, that's when the sh*t really hits the fan and that's when recovery takes time due to stored mercury slowly starting to leak back out. Even if you try to speed that process up with chelation, there is no indication of exactly how long it's going to take for each person. In fact, I got more remission of symptoms WITH amalgams still in me and I managed symptoms more simply with diet and I could even use garlic and other stuff (which I can't figure out how). Post amalgam removal left me very very ill with ongoing detox symptoms that I coudl not control. I was then unable to use garlic and other things I once had been able to do. Things do change after amalgam removal. But in a sense, I felt I had to do it, but I had no idea what I was in for once it was done.

Good evening all -
I was given 500mg of oral DMPS as a chelating agent for a provocation test for Hg. My Holistic Doctor didn't tell me about DMPS just gave it to me. At the time I trusted him and taken it. My random results came back 1.1 microgram/g CREAT and my provocation test came back 54 micrograms/g CREAT. Yes my mouth is filled with amalgam fillings (at least 10 teeth with multiple fillings). A week and a day after taking the 500mgs of DMPS, I suffered side effects of headaches, swelling in my mouth, pressure in my jaw, eyes and base of my neck. My sinuses were swollen and stuffy yet dry (no runny nose or nasal drip). I had extreme fatigue which lead me to sleep all day for 3 straight days. I was in a mental fog and could barely function. I was extremely cold and constipated. I experienced nausea and hip pain returned where it had subsided with a regime of vitamins, minerals and supplements I had been on prior to the DMPS. On the 4th day, I lost my voice and was extremely groggy. By the 5th, I was coming out of it and was returning to 'normal'. When I told my Doctor of these side effects, he told me he didn't know what they were .. and that any side effects from the DMPS would or should have occurred on the day or few days following it's ingestion. I finally got smart and began researching. I became angry that he didn't inform what he had given me and I was stupid enough to take it without looking into it first. He wants me to chelate with 200mgs of DMSA and ALA following a vitamin/mineral protocol along with it even before seeing a Dentist to have my fillings replaced. I have been taking cilantro extract to begin to shake the mercury free from my cells and excrete it but I have found that even on 3 droppers a day that I have ringing in my ears and a tingling sensation in my mouth. I have stopped the cilantro for now as of today until I do more research into amalgam filling replacement and chelation protocols. I have ordered Hal Higgins and Andrew Culter's books and am patiently awaiting their arrivals.
My suggestion is to anyone who is entering into this to be as well informed as possible. I believe that whatever chelating agent used can be helpful if taken correctly and appropriately under specific vitamin/supplement protocols. Every body is different and the side effects for one may not be as severe as it can be for someone else. My point being .. be as welly educated in this before starting and go into it clear minded and well informed. And if this frightens you into becoming cautious as it has me .. then be very afraid!
(and to be clear on what I am saying - Be Very Cautious))
Kindest regards
D

DMPS is a very powerful and effective chelator.

I noticed one thing in particular when I read the stories at the dmpsbackfire site a while back, and DeeCee's story above also reiterates the same thing, just about every single bad testimony of DMPS includes the following line just like DeeCee includes it above:

I was extremely ... constipated.

The DMPS works. I think most of these people have a different problem which complicates things, and will complicate things no matter which form of chelation they try.

Any form of chelation, if it's working, makes you feel tired btw. And your doctor is right, if it were the DMPS causing the problems you would have noticed the same day or within a couple days at most. Mercury or some other heavy metal/toxin is causing those symptoms DeeCee (not the dmps which obviously did you cause to dump) but only because you are not eliminating and need to do a colon cleanse first. You are blocked up. If you are going to chelate, you need to truly dump the metals, not let them sit in your colon all week and then recirculate.

I still have amalgams too btw. And I can chelate without a hitch. I feel really good after 18 months or so of it also, amalgams somewhat still in. Really good. It's true what Hal Huggins says, it's in your head (your mouth actually) but he doesn't tell you... it's not all in your head, a great majority of it is in your gut. Clear your gut and you will do well with DMPS or any type of chelation for that matter/ DMPS is simply the quickest, expect big dumps at first if you use it.

This happened back in 2005 (in the news again due to a verdict in the case) and yes the mainstream medical community did jump all over it to attack doctors and parents using biomedical treatments for their autistic children. As far as I know, EDTA is not used in the DAN! protocol. And I believe the boy did not test high for mercury, but aluminum. This was obviously overly agressive therapy which is sad.

I had a DMPS (oral) challenge test and am currently taking oral DMPS and not following the Cutler protocol (not because I don't agree with it, but because I was already taking once daily evening with replacement minerals morning with great success, before I had heard of the Cutler protocol.) I read each story on DMPS backfire. Nearly every case involved IV DMPS or fast push. It also appeared that there was very little preparation (candida diet, etc.) before starting agressive chelation. A lot of these cases appear to have had severe gastrointestinal side effects. I agree with you Sosick. I believe I have done well on it in part because I had already been on the candida diet for a few years before beginning and I do a coffee enema everyday to clear toxins - and use plenty of probiotics. The DAN! protocol does not go straight into chelation - they try first to get gastrointestinal imbalances under control through diet and supplementation. Apparently they are having good success with transdermal DMPS and DMPS suppositories. I think the most important thing with any of these chelation therapies is to start low and slow (probably why the Cutler protocol seems to have less side effects.)

I agree that any chelating agent can be taken if done under the correct protocols and low dose over a long period of time. My experience was with just one dose of DMPS for the provocation test .. After what I experienced, I decided that taking 200mgs of DMSA under a vitamin/supplement protocol every other day for a week would be too intense for me .. that is where I began to read and have found out that there are other protocols that involve only 6 to 12.5 mgs of DMSA to chelate. Ok, I can agree to go with a lower dose .. but not 200 mgs. I know for the past that I have been highly sensitive to medications. I wish to make the best educated decision for myself and I encourage others to do the same.
Kindest regards
D