I too have been interested in this recently after watching Jack Van Impe and his wife Rexella on TBN recently. I've heard of it before, but they really got my attention. Simply because it continues to pop up and has been mentioned by accurate prophets of the past. We all know about the ongoing predictions about "the end of the world" by many people who failed to ever occur. The bible says we will NOT know the day nor the hour.

However, there appears to be something interesting about this particular date that has caught my attention. I don't personally believe in the "end of the world", because it is a "world without end amen". BUT, I believe in the end of the world as we know it at some point. We were told not to set dates and nobody know the day or the hour as Christ informed us. But we were told to obeserve the signs of the times. To be ready and to be aware of what is leading up to a climax (end time tribulation? return of Christ?). Nobody knows when, but could 2012 still be a significant year for radical changes? At the very least...?

One thing I try not to do is get too wrapped up in dates, though I am always interested in the signs of the times which I see unfolding around me as time goes on (at an accelerating rate). And I am always curious about prophecy, but I'm cautious.

If anybody too is interested in finding out more about the 2012 prophecy? Check this link out. I maybe getting the DVD about it. http://www.jvim.com/home.htm

So many things are pointing to this date that something may well occur. However, it won't surprise me "too" much if things do not happen as people predict. God's way are not ours. But, it'll be interesting to find out more nevertheless.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but 2012 is simply the official end of the age, in so far as constellations go, we move from the age of pisces to aquarius i believe, something like that.

but I very much doubt it is the end of the world. There are a lot of really strange ideas floating around concerning 2012. The planet x stuff, none of it adds up far as I am concerned.

The bible says we will NOT know the day nor the hour. I'm pretty sure that refers to Jesus' return, not the end of the world.

The world is always changing I've noticed. The year 1939 must have seemed like the the tribulation for many people... 1929 for others... 1969 was quite radical... and no one expected these so no one prepared....but 1984 came and went just like the millennium.


an amish woman told me once.. disaster is always around the corner, you should always be prepared.

probably the best advice. sleep well, don't worry.

2012 is the end of the astrological processional.

It's a little complicated but here an excellent video about it:

http://urlbam.com/ha/lz

Hi sosick, I lean towards what you're saying too. Certainly there is no "end of the world". There is only an end to things as we know it and a complete renewal. The new heavens and the new earth. But we do not know when this will be.

The only things that will be destroyed is no doubt a pretty big portion of those living on the earth (similar to sodom and gommorah). We were warned and sin continues and grows over time. But those who are right with God, do not have anything to fear.

I feel ok either way. God's in charge! Whether anything significant happens in 2012 or not, is not going to impact the way I live my life. For all of us, it already is the end times because we're our lives are really very short in comparison with eternity. And our life is merely a preparation for the next.

Dates have always been set in the past and we've had a lot of red faces because of this. Though 2012 could well be a different senario, it sure looks interesting, but I'm not exactly obsessed, just curious.

One thing is sure, the signs of the times have never been so prevalent as they are now. JEsus told us to observe them and so we should. We may not know the day or the hour of His return, but we can be pretty sure that the bible is not mistaken at giving is strong hints and those hints are being played out in our day and age so blatantly, that one would need to be blind not to see.

It maybe just a matter of time and who knows how much longer there is. Better to be prepared in our own lives regardless.

Hi Russ, thanks for the video clip. Problem is, I have "dial-up" so my computer is pretty pathetic at playing anything. I don't have the money to afford the other right now and probably won't anytime soon.

To watch anything I have to sit for ages and wait and sometimes it doesn't work out. I can play youtubes and certain ones, but having a few issues with the ideam for some reason. Maybe if I'm patient enough, it would eventually play back properly!

Cheers.

Sorry to hear about the slow connection.

Perhaps you could connect and navigate to a video page and then do some other work for awhile and then come back to the page.

There's a lot of good stuff posted here. Hate to see you miss out on it. I'm posting the Clinton Chronicles tonight. It's amazing.

Nice work on the evolution forum, by the way. You're quite the expert!

Hi Russ,

Well, I let it load and walked away from it to do other things and came back after about two hours with little progress. I can actually load youtubes relatively ok and other ones, but don't seem to be having much luck with the ideam ones.

Pity because I feel I'm missing a lot of good stuff. I lap up all these things and am glad I have Kent Hovind on DVD and have actually been interested in the strange goings on with the angels in the old testament. No doubt in my mind they went after strange flesh (just as was described later in the bible). Have you heard of the book of Enoch? Im sure you have!

Well the more of these videos you post, the more it wets my appetite to view them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shiftyeyes.gif" alt="" />. It's impressive how much of this stuff you have and a pity my computer has issues with it.

lol thanks for the compliment re the evolution forum thread! I needed that!! Feel free to join in anytime! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif" alt="" /> it's a riot! The love on there ...overwhelms me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/inlove.gif" alt="" /> Looks like it aint finishing anytime soon either.

Sorry to hear about the videos from Ideam. That may be remedied in a few months when we move it to another system. It works well for me here and I'm interested how it works for others in the U.S.

I'm also glad you exposed me to Hovind. Before the box from your father, I had never heard of him. He's so good at exposing the stupidity of evolution in a way people can understand. Most of the jargon used to sounds scientific is a joke; It's so much smoke and mirrors.

Well, gotta' go. Tons to do.

Thanks again great work!!

No worries, I think it's just dial up that's the issue. Even stuff I can load takes ages.

I'm glad you liked Hovind! lol you could start something with that comment! You never know how he's going to go down, because he's blunt and doesn't hide behind intellectual smoke screen verbosity.:

It reminds me a bit of these new age artists, some of which actually can't paint. But somehow have others convinced they're "geniuses". They all pontificate together over a piece of art that looks like someone took a dump on, umming and ahhing and analysing it to death with complex lofty opinions, posturing and ego stroking and then selling it for thousands of dollars to the rich and insane or gullible.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> remind you of anything?

It just goes to show that if you break down the pretentious ego stroking jargon, what lies underneath is often no more than a pile of doo doo.

people like Kent are ideal to decode and expose and many more like him. You would like Gary Parker! he's brilliant.

The Ideam videos rarely work for me either and I am on broadband.

a lot of the ones you post Russ, they don't play at all.

you mean the ego stroking? the ego self-stroking to be exact?

Yep!!! Christ's statement that continues to come to mind. "Professing to be wise, they become fools"....and you see it playing out constantly.

It will be a very difficult thing when they have no choice but to prostrate themselves in front of the Creator they have denied. And then depart to the very place they claim doesn't exist.

One can only pray and hope that God hits them with a spiritual 2 by 4 plank of wood before it is truly too late.

it happened to me so never say never.

just thought I should mention, Russ, that the videos play ok later in the evening. probably they are just busy at various other times of the day.

just watched one, the morgellon's thing. and caught another last night that wouldn't play for me either on the first try.

concerning morgellons, whether or not chemtrails are involved i don;t know, but people are eating plastics everyday and I would imagine your body has to process it somehow.

Like mcdonald's food, ice cream in particular, they use plastics in there... some cheeses, if they are not real cheeses, it's plastics in there. Artificial american cheese comes quickly to mind.

That's true. But I find it very wearing to continue debating with them. The irrational and illogical thinking processes they live by are often a waste of time battling with in the end. Even animals have a more basic moral code than they do.

Oh and just to add something here to the 2012. Found this article on a website I frequent on. The website used the words "Occult watch".
http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/12-26-04.asp

It's something I'm wary of, but certainly the belief is pretty widespread across different spiritual beliefs.

well... I don't believe the devil can tell you what will happen in the future, God might tell you... but the devil.. has his hopes and dreams and plans, some of those he might achieve some of those he won't, depends on who he's got to help him in the human community I guess... so if he achieves some of it he was successful in telling you the future if you want to look at it that way. It's like me telling you I will go to the store tomorrow at noon. Or here's where my friend Danny buried the silver coin.

and remote viewing, psychics, all of that, is not of God. it's people being shown things by familiar spirits, demonic spririts, wandering spririts, that they established relationshps with... just ike the girl in the bible that follwed the apostles around and then the apostles called the spirits out of her and then the men that used her to make money got angry.


and buddhists... they have a lot of non-benevolent spirits around them from my experience. I would say there seems to a plan for 2012 there. They help this stuff along, they always have.

but it's interesting that so many non-christians are jumping on the alien bandwagon. I'd hardly call ufo's or aliens divine. more the antitheis of it. But the newage movement and wiccans, pagens, people like that, they consider those forces divine.

I wouldn't bother with this stuff myself, it's just a distraction to keep you not focused on Jesus and God's plans. Christian means you flollow Christ, Jesus, not every wind that blows as they say.

have faith.

That is right. I gave up going to psychics and all those people. They'd tell me things that were happening, but something was never right. Like a twisted version of things and often what they said did not occur anyway.

I do believe in familiar spirits also and that they too can communicate many things to people who tune into them. There is always a catch though and notice how these people cannot really predict their own futures? Yet always trying to predict somebody else's.

I always find it interesting how unbelievers are often quite open to hearing about UFOS or even astrology or even talk about being creeped out by the ghostly side or fasinated <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Yet then go onto deny the afterlife and any idea of "God".

Yes, I guess these other things are a distraction. Hard not to be curious sometimes though. But I guess that's the point <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Occultism always has that mystery and gains so much attention, whilst Christ is often pushed into the background.

My athiest friend from college, from the pro-abortionist family... actually believed he had been abducted by aliens when he was a kid. he truly believed this. he would tell the story of how one day he was just sitting in his bedroom, he was about 8 or 10 yrs at the time he said.. and the wall to the outside of his parent's NYC apt just sort of disappeared and there were these alien guys there... little grey guys and they spoke to him...

Just thought you'd enjoy that. It is a true story.. I am not making it up anyway.

he also had a strange thing he would say all the time... "i am the devil'... really not kidding. Some strange stuff from athiests i've heard but that one was top notch..

Yeah, sounds like he had an encounter with the demonic. Amazingly deceptive aren't they? Yet much more easily accepted by those who oppose Christ.

I've heard some itneresting things from so-called atheists also...certainly many of them have indeed had spiritual experiences of some kind. Most people have or at least know somebody who has.

I have, so for me there isn't any doubts whatsoever. Seen the bad, seen the good, experienced the supernatural on both sides.

Funny, my atheistic friend used to complain about how cold she felt once when she entered a church (although that could have been the extreme size and high stud), but also complained of being fearful of graveyards...ghosts and things. They seem to admit to sensing things but clam up when any mention of Christ comes into it.

I remember once when I was into tarot card, palm reading, astrology etc and seeing spiritualists, there was one point when I decided there was no God. I really stopped believing and it wasn't so much anger, I just decided it oneday. Well I can tell you the change inside of me was profound. Still the same outwardly ,inwardly I felt something died. Like having a heart of stone. I was the walking dead.

The strangest most empty feeling and I didnt' last long like this because frankly I found it almost intolerable. That in itself was enough to show me that I was a walking shell without the light of the world (Christ). Though I was not yet baptised, the fact I believed was enough to keep Christ calling me to Him. When I shut that off during that one stage, the feeling was of horror (hell). I don't know how else to describe it. I guess when one continues that they become accustomed to it and don't realise the state they are in.

Atheism is a real lesson in contradictions I think.

But it's a lot easier in real life to simply walk away and leave the beggar begging, as he yells 'where is the stupid love of your !@#%! hateful God?'

heh. I haven't really got an answer for that yet.

I am not sure everyone be saved. God is the one that has to soften their hearts... till then, they are hardened. Must be a reason for it. Wheat and tares and only God knows. The void has to be filled with something. I have known people who I felt were absolutely souless too, just so empty inside always trying to fill it up with something... drugs a lot of the time.

My mom really changed after she got involved with tarot cards and astrology too. She died unsaved. My brother sees her ghost in the house from time to time, hears voices there since she died too. His friends don't want to go there anymore, he's been taking care of my ex-alcoholic dad.

One of these days we'll head down and exorcise the place I guess. But I won't go unless the Lord makes it clear we should.

There are a lot of ghosts in Florida, so many people go there to die. I am glad we left... my house had ghosts too. Very annoying, so many of them. We had one here when we moved in, Jesus took it away after just a couple weeks. But stuff wanders in now and then still... I woke up last night... a weird bad dream and the feeling of being pinned down... the holy spirit is very cool about that... I wake up in my sleep and I am praying the Lord's prayer while half asleep, like an auto thing I do ( the holy spirit i think really) even in my dreams, I like that a lot...and telling at it to get off me... took a half a minute but it left. Or was removed. That doesn;t happen very often to me anymore... my daughter was at a birthday party yesterday maybe something followed her home. I have a really weird story along those lines, something several years ago... maybe later.

It is hard to speak out, I find I'm almost impotent spiritually sometimes. I admire the way you just say it.

I read more of the evolution/creation threads and you and Russ were excellent. I got my father to have a read and he was chuckling at some of it, hard not to. But was really impressed amongst the bits of humour thrown in.

I just don't have the inclincation sometimes to bother arguing with them, it goes in circles and I am one of those people that tend to get a knot in my stomach really easily and I see where it's heading and often you feel like you're being drained.

Yes, it's God that will do the work. But if one can plant a seed? Even if it seems fruitless at the time, you never know if that seed will germinate! Sometimes surprising things happen. I think too that it strengthens and challenges the faith of those of us when we have those around us who are against our faith. Perhaps if this were not so, we might drift . I think in these times especially the battle seems to be increasing and it's reaching a stage where people will have to pick a side, (no more fence sitting).

Yes, tarot cards and astrology and all those things changed me also. They pull you into the spiritual but they exclude God, so it's a dangerous place to be. I believe personally that this may well have brought things into my family home. INterestingly enough around the time I was involved in this, my family began splitting up. Did I tell you the time I found the laundry wall covered in flies and blow flies? Out of the blue? IT happened twice. They were also deformed looking, some without wings, and none of them were flying. I sprayed them all and killed them, but they returned again a few days later. Just one wall, completely covered. No reason for it. They were not even interested in the rubbish!

how weird is that? But that doesn't even include other strange goings on in the house either. All which I now believe was likely caused by myself. However, our family was never that close to Christ. Nobody really prayed much if at all, and everybody fought continually at that time. God was only an A and E God (accident/emergency). No real conversions then.

It took disaster in our family and total separation to get a few of us back to God. Sometimes people have to hit rock bottom eh?

That is very eerie about the house your brother has heard voices and seen your Mum's ghost....Wow, I'd be praying and getting the house blessed/exorcised. We had one area of one house that was strange. It was always cold, even when the sunlight shone through it. Funnily enough it was a new part that we had been built on there, so we couldn't work out why it was that way. But I thought of the land itself, something may have happened there. Things were felt and seen sometimes. E.g. dark shadow, cold, a feeling of being watched. I would go into the lounge, which was just off that area and I would feel as though I was being watched. everybody did and they never stayed long there. It was a nice area too, but the feeling is what drove people away. I hated going down that end of the house alone and I was often told to go put a book back in the study (which was part of it) and I'd feel sick. I would sneak in and run out at top speed, never understanding why. Nobody spoke about it until many years later (after we moved) and soon people were all comparing similar stories.

Yes, the feeling of being pinned down. I have had a horrible experience once, I think I shared it with you on private message a while ago. I won't say it here, but you might remember it. Paralysis and unable to cry out for help. I managed to cry out to God and be freed of it, nothing else worked except that.

I love weird stories, feel free to share!

Spiritual filth...the flies and stuff... christians are not immune to it, other people can bring it into your house too if you let them through the door.

I have no idea how the spirits do it but I know they do it. I actually found maggots in my rice jar after having that autistic girl in here for a few days. The cupboard won't stay shut anymore, i have to fix that... she ripped the plastic covering off one of the earpieces of my favorite pair of wire rim sunglasses in a heartbeat... don't ask me how because I tried and tried to do it to the other one and it doesn't come off, we had bunches of flies too for a while too. We have never had flies in here or bugs in the food. I keep everything sealed tight in jars. that one jar was on the kitchen table and she was playing with it one day. I hate to say it but I don't want the kid or her father in here. He claims to be a Christian.. of course he's got Harry Potter stuff all over the girl's bedroom, he does this weird type of photo work where people come in for tourist photos... he showed me one... he had these women dress up like whores and lay on a bar with a bottle of whiskey smiling... real Christian yeah.. he asked me if I wanted him to take my photo... gosh thanks... no thanks I said. But anyway it affected our household just the presence. i don't think all autistic kids are possessed but I am real sure this girl has a problem along those lines... deep raspy voices come out her that she argues with in a childish way. I mentioned it to her father and said he knows about it. I mentioned he seemed to have spirits about him... he said he knows about it... not kidding he knows about it... his explanation was "well i haven't got any argument with them... if they leave me alone I leave them alone."

No kidding that's exactly what he said.

This other friend of mine had a girl watching her kid and they started finding little dead frogs in the house. then there was a worm in the soup the girl had put onto the stove for dinner. Turns out the girl, who claimed to be a Christian had started going to some place called 'Korean church of God' where they believe that some dead korean guy is the second coming of christ or his reincarnation or something like that. They fired the babysitter. the wierd stuff stopped. Got their attention though because they had never experienced it either.

My dad's house... I don't know.. i do pray for them. I dont see te point in going through the motions to bless a house where the occupant's favorite curse word's are JC and GD all day long. I pray for them. My brother hates being there too much but there's no one else to do it, my sister and i both have kids to take care of and my other sister isn't capable of much of anything useful it seems... Hard to say if the ghost is really that of my mother anymore anyway. the Lord indicated to me way back that the devil destroys peoples' souls by ripping them to shreds and they still exist... everything always still exists in some form i guess... but they are just voices and thoughts, a bad feeling in places... those little orbs you see in ghost phenonema photos I am prettty sure. Why he told me that I truly did forget but I must have been asking some weird question. Or my life was full of them and i started noticing a lot of things after I got saved, something like that. anyway.. but I donl;t know there are full image ghosts too... either way, I don;t know praying is probably enough. Whatever they experience down there is good for them. They need to be saved. My brother stands a real chance I think and until this he never believed any of my stories. he may have more stories than me by now. He has been thinking quite a bit about it.

It's weird the way spirits come after you while you are sleeping... one time this big thing, very oppressive, came into the house, not here in another city... I really think that one came from the catholic church around the corner... we tried going there... and then i started having this type of stuff happen so I quit that idea... we wound up at a black pentecostal church down the road... that one was humble but seemed pretty clean... found a great babysitter for my daughter there she is still s great friend to this day, really loves the Lord... and then the other experience... this was real weird... back in that other city again but in a different house... we had moved closer to where my daughter would start kindergarten... I had just gone to sleep... i was half awake... all of a sudden my hand reaches around behind my back real quick... and grabs onto this thing that felt like a paw! I kid you not... and whatever it was, it literally snarled at me... Bex... I didn't do that.. the holy spirit did that, he grabbed it... he watches, he sees this stuff... and thing is... whatever it was was invisible, an animal a demon I have no idea... but I felt the paw and I heard the snarl/hiss plain as day... a moment later whatever it was was gone, there was nothing in my hand. That one shook me up a bit.

Very stange world we live in. I am so glad I got saved. I think Jesus sends those spirits to a deep dark place in hell if they try attacking us and he catches them redhanded when we haven't done anything to attract them except be there. They never come back. New ones keep trying though. I have about 3 of those weird being pinned down and suffocating feeling experiences per year.. it is definitey a spirit... the holy spirit always scares them away. Must be a strange experience for a spirit to wander into a house like they are used to doing... try to bother a perso in their sleep and then have the person wake with a fit saying 'Get out of here demon'. I know for sure thay aren't use to that. heh. we manage. The holy spirit is very cool. Sounds nuts I know. But I guess I'd prefer to sound nuts to unbelievers than have to live unwittingly with their spiritual filth on a daily basis. Such confusion.

I actually had a ghost try to choke me once, a dozen years ago.. I was wide awake and sitting at my desk, literally felt hands around my neck. I was already saved. Didn't last long maybe five-ten seconds, I assume one of Jesus' angels took that away too but it adds a whole new perspective on mysterious reasons why people die. That is actually a pretty common experience if you ask around, i know a few others who have experienced it too. All christians, never met a non-christian who had the experience.. either that or they did get choked completely and aren't around to discuss it.

I prayed for God to send us more angels to keep those spirits away, they are a real nuisance and the problems they cause, they're everywhere, lots of it around... ... I think he may have added an extra one to our house. They really like to bother Christians, you are quite a prize for the devil you know. Our evolutionary friends... just run of the mill pop culture kids, a dime a dozen and already sold.

I have never once seen an alien or lizard guy though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> saw some strange lights once or several times but no occupants.

very strange world we live in.

We're not home yet Bex.

Interesting you should mention other people can bring it into your house. When you said that, I thought back and I am certain at the time when the weird fly incident happened, we had an convict living with us (on parole). He turned out to be a con artist, a liar and someone that spun nothing but a web of deception. In fact, whenever I walked into the room where he was, I used to feel sick in the stomach (that horrible clammy feeling). And he used to tell me I made him feel uncomfortable when I looked at him. I've been told i have a very honest direct look, so maybe that was it. AT any rate, it was a pretty awful time anyway. Mum and dad divorcing, jail bird living with me and Dad (me only 21 and being left inside the house with this guy all day long alone). Nice eh? Luckily he was a little guy and he was constantly nervous. He drank coffee and smoked all day and hardly ate. He had a way of charming people and making them feel sorry for him. Almost a boyishness about him. Yet I could never quite stop feeling sick to the gut around him.

he stayed in our caravan outside to sleep in, but was in our house during the day. I remember he once offered that I could come into his caravan one night and if I ever needed a shoulder to cry on or chat, he'd be there....uh huh. I knew exactly what he was referring to and steered clear.

Very creepy and he wound up being taken away by cops from our house after trying to cash in my father's shares etc. But anyway, I am sure that's when the fly incident was happening. I know it was around that time. IN fact, my occult involvement and all the rest of it, made that house have a very bad feel in the end. Didn't start off that way though.

That's very unusual what you experienced with the autistic girl. Her father sounds like he was a bit loose perhaps in allowing certain things to creep in. Easy to do that, I have to watch myself as well. We have a few things here that I should probably biff out. Harry Potter book, some old astrology books I think I still might have somewhere and other stuff too. I dont' read them, but I do wonder if it might not be wise to have them here regardless. I have a few dragons and other stuff too. I used to love that stuff, now I don't feel so comfortable with it. It does "seem" harmless, but I am just at that point where I"m not sure enough. Probably need to pray more too because I think you gain far more disernment.

The occupant of that house using blasphemy won't exactly bring any blessings on it that's for sure. Hey, maybe getting the house blessed might help him? Sounds like he needs it. But you almost feel it's an insult to God sometimes. Like your casting your pearls before swine. Because the one thing I cannot stand is the words JC being used as a swear word and GD. I cringe. I'd prefer people swear than use His name. I remember the day I used the word JC in front of my mother (as a teenager) becuase my atheist friend used it often. The first and LAST time I ever used it. THe response I got was a shocker. I'm very glad my Mother reacted that way, because it stopped me from ever using it again. I actually felt totally ashamed of myself. Even though we were not exactly the most Christian family (didn't pray much, didn't go to church, neither me nor my brother were baptised), but there was always something there and we all did believe in Christ.

wow your experience was terrifying. Feeling a paw? Heck I'd have heart failure. I've had experiences for sure, but not that. I've had choking sensations, a feeling of someone with their hands around my throat at night. It's even happened when I've tried to pray. LIke having smoke put down your thorat and I'd wind up coughing and my eyes would tear up. I'd have to stop praying. Luckly that wasn't often, but the times it happened it was horrible. When I was moving closer to God and giving up more of the occult stuff, I remember the choking sensation happened in bed. I wasn't afraid, I prayed and it soon stopped. Weird because normally I'd have been terrified, but I felt whatever it was had been there for sometime before my conversion and was obviously angry and that night i felt it leave. Sensed it.

So I am not surprised at the stuff happening to you or other people anymore. I think had i never experienced it, I'd probably find it harder to accept. But not now.

well, I remember a few of my friends who were unbeliever, never seemed to have issues and that used to confuse me, becuase I always did. If we dabbled, I'd be the one to cop it later on, they were almost left alone. I used to get upset by it and I'd wind up saying "I don't want to do this anymore" because I'd cop it when I'd go home to bed. My bedroom became nightmarish to sleep in. All because of occult dabbling. Did they get affected? Heck no. Interestingly not one of them had a belief in God as I recall. But two of them were interested in the supernatural (funny that eh?). and I was the one attacked or affected by these dabblings, not them.

Well, I think you're right, they seem much more interested in believers, than those who don't. Almost taunting and frightening them if they can do so. I was in a bad position then though because thugh I believed in Christ, I wasn't converted, so I was fair game.

Nope, I've not seen an alien or lizard guy either lol. But for sure, i've had the pinning down experience, and being paralysed from crying out for help. Also seen one or two horrible apparitions once or twice which sent me screaming out of my room. Luckily that's not happened for years, and hope it never does again.

No, we're not home yet. I wish we were. I'm not finding the journey easy. Great to have some allies along the way though. I live in a pretty secular country by the way, so it's refreshing to be able to talk like this about God and these things so openly. I can do that with very few people. Most no. Though I like them alot, in this area things are usually left unsaid because the beliefs are so different, the only thing that would come from it is a massive argument. Already been down that road.

I remember the time I criticised the author of Harry Potter, for what she allegedly said about Christ. I was furious and mentinoed it to my cousin. Sosick, she erupted over email to me in a way I've never seen and literally abused me for DARING to talk about this author like that. I mean it was the strangest thing, she swore at me, put me down, and I sat in a state of shock thinking "what the???". My email was actually only stating what this woman had said and how upset I was and the response from my cousin was like a load of abuse hurled at me.... So yeah see what I mean?

Later we kind of cleared things up and got back talking. But there is always that feeling that you don't bring anything up.
Do you have these things occur too?

hmm, well if changing a person's behavior were as simple as blessing the house they live in the world would be a much better place. we could bless prisons, eliminate the death penalty...

anyway... no it wasn't terrifying, real strange that's all. I learned that as a little child too, pray and it goes away.

I actually don't bother with unbelievers in real life at all. the only reason I bother here is because they like to verbally attack christians here. i doubt very much they do that in the real world either, but who knows. I guess it would be the same as one of us going to an athiest or wiccan website, going through the pretense of appearing to want to learn and discuss, and then using every opportune moment to let off some anti-wiccan or anti-athiesm steam. Problem is I haven't got any anti-atheism or wiccan steam to vent so i don't seek that. Truly i couldn't care less if they want to believe whatever they'd like. It's the attempts to force their views as superior when i truly couldn't care less (and especially when their views are bull) that really irritates me. Mostly I think it's strange that they're so extremely hateful toward God and Christians that they promulgate their views everywhere without concern for offense yet cry offense if someone objects. It's really not worth the trouble, best to leave them alone in my opinion. The spiritual things that trouble you, you take notice, it rubs you the wrong way, me too, most real Christians... the rest... your cousin's abusive retort etc... they have a lot of help from the spirits that you and I have evicted from our lives with Jesus' help. they don't usually realize the spell they're under. they are pretty much alseep just like the bible says, the puppets of their other gods. You'll never save anyone who doesn't want to be saved, only a revelation of God himself, from God himself, can break the spell they're under.

You do have to keep things that might potentially anger God or attract unclean spirits out of your house if you want God to bless your house with his presence. Things like Harry potter, it's kiddie witchcraft, it's meant to turn kid's thoughts to witchcraft, recruit them in a sense. spirits will follow that to help influence. people don't realize how much they are influenced by those spirits. and God, he doesn't want to see our sin so he turns his back.

So yeah, if you're not interested in the books you should toss them. Maybe even your health will improve.

Another thing that occurs to me is that, the Lord keeps his angels about us, to help lead, protect etc... and if you start getting involved in things that attract adversary spirits, that could cause a number of issues... they need to somehow cause you to do or say things that make the Lord's angel go away. Basically, sitting on the fence is not a good place to be.

I've heard a good number of stories from people who were once involved with witchcraft who were told by familiar (unclean) spirits about (Christian) people they couldn't get next to because of angels in the way. The spirits do see the angels.

No, I don't believe blessing a house will change a person's behaviour, but I'd do it anyway. Any touches of God grace is worth it in my opinion. I know since we had our place blessed, it's been better. I don't think that's my imagination either. I'd do it regardless. Probably make any demonic spirits around them or in them uncomfortable too.

Well, I can understand why you don't bother much with unbelievers. Very often you can't change people anyway and the best thing for me has been to pray for them. I have unbelievers as friends (distant friends, because I don't see people now), I grew up in a pretty secular home and wasn't overly Christian, so I never lost some of those friends. It's just a pity they've pushed God out. But I'm always hopeful something may happen oneday. I know people around my age who seem to believe in God, but that's about it. They're very much of the world as far as "it's ok to do this or that". when according to God, it isn't.

Yeah I agree you, there is no way you can change anybody, only God can do that. It all depends on whether there will come a time where they will be just open enough to receive an infusion of grace, whether that comes via a shock in their lives, some kind of massive spiritual awakening or what I don't know. Perhaps a seed that was planted a long time ago that starts to grow. Hey I know of a guy that got baptised at 104 years of age <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> lol, all his life he'd never been a Christian and then at this age he converts.

I find that sometimes in certain people that you bring up an issue that is religious or pertains to morality and suddenly they can erupt in a kind of viciousness or cold indifference. It can be quite a shock, even if you do it gently without being judgemental. It's interesting to see, but not something I enjoy and it almost always winds up nasty.

Yeah, I've struggled with the Harry Potter thing for sometime. I am not happy about it anymore. I see that apparently the lady who wrote these, included quite a bit of reality regarding the witchcraft. And also during an interview (apparently) referred to Christ as the idiotic son of God. Basically referring to Him as "defeated". I don't know how true this is, but I was floored by what I read.

Yeah I will toss the book. I don't read it anyway.

I remember when I was coming closer to God (age 23), Dad had bought me a book on angels (real life experiences / testimonies) and just reading that book was a big part of me getting closer to the God I had been quite distant from most of my life. In fact, around this time was when the presence in my bedroom withdrew finally (after me feeling I was being choked by something). This is the first time I did not experience fear and felt instead peace as the presence finally withdrew. That's when my bedroom became a place I could finally sleep in and I had not had that in years. I think it was because I was making a genuine journey towards God, rather than just crying out when I was previously afraid or distressed.

I truly doubt it this case... it would be like that passage in Jeremiah... they say to those who despise me.. you will have peace .. kind of like blessing a saloon. You can pray over a house sure, but blessing it outright and expecting God to imbue it with his grace is another matter. In your case you have the faith to believe and try to walk right... Makes a difference.

me too, so that's all I do.

It's their 'spirit' that does that... like the little autistic girl who openly argues with her 'spirit'. There's a lot of it around. That's why when someone tries to help a person like that walk through it, exorcise them, which only Jesus can really do btw, they will speak to the spirit and pretty much ignore the person completely. But if Jesus or his angels aren't nearby to actually do the work, if the person's faith doesn't exist, if they don't want to be saved, if they decide not to give themselves over completely to Jesus, if they hang onto other influences, it's really useless. When I was saved I was as normal 'as the girl next door'... really. But lo and behold the Lord pulled quite a few obnoxious little spirits from me. I learned a lot going thorugh that, I was healed in the process, of numerous minor physical complaints, not to mention an enormous amount of mental confusion... the spell I was under so to speak. But just like the bible says, word for word, a house swept clean... where one spirit is chased away he returns with seven more even worse than before... I actually experienced that, now that was terrifying. Demons actually tried to possess me at that point and there were a few, and they can literally make you do stuff, harm you in major ways, make you harm yourself, those around you, say really stupid stuff. But I was aware of the situation and I fought and prayed, and the Lord was there waiting i guess he expected it too, and I got saved from that too, and after that the holy spirit filled me and took up that space so it never happened again praise God. That was a very dangerous situation, it all took place over a span of several weeks. I am hardly unique, so if it happened here it can happen anywhere there's an open door, the possession stuff. Good thing I lived alone at the time because anyone who saw me go through it would have thought I was utterly insane. I guess I was, for a few days there. Only my faith in Jesus and my refusal to give into those spirits pulled me through that one. Today, I look at people with things like parkinson's disease and other similar physical issues, uncontrollable body movements that medicine cannot expalin, and all I see is possesion from this perspective. They've given themselves over to something and whatever it has no intention of letting go. A crisis of faith I guess... where the dark side wins. If the harry potter lady ever has a crsis of faith.. in her case if she starts to question the witchcraft, tries to seek the real God or Jesus, she will end up like that too. Watch, you'll see as the years go by, how people end up stammering and crippled to different degrees, their minds, bodies and lives destroyed. The sitting on the fence thing over and over again.


toss the astrology books too. The experience I describe above was tied in with me seeking God in all the wrong places and bringing exactly that type of stufff into my house out of curiousity.

I have always wondered about death bed 'conversions'. I'm not sure I buy into it completely as a form of true salvation. Salvation is more than just mouthing words and the fear of hell. It's taken me years and years to work on my relationship with God, through Jesus. Still working on it... it's been quite a journey. It's a very strange world we live in. I am glad I have these years to make my mistakes in this life. If the devil could truly get a hold of my soul I'm sure he would have destroyed it long ago. If everyone goes through what I experienced (which they must of they aren't saved already) being saved, being unbound from various other spirits, then it would seem to me a deathbed confessor dies all bound up yet and is probably easily carried away regardless of the confession. I could be wrong of course. but it took weeks for the Lord to really clean me up. And also the bible says most directly that without the holy spirit to give our soul eternal life, we don't have eternal life, just eternity in some other form, weeping and gnashing of teeth.. where the worm dieth not etc... that many will claim to know Jesus but that he will say I knew you not.

hope you start feeling better, Bex. Clean the house. Keep salt in the house. Not table salt <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well yeah, a bit like throwing pearls before swine! I guess a blessing only really bears fruit if the person receives it. True sosick. Never thought of it that way and it makes sense. I guess I always think that demons also find blessed places more repellent than place that are not blessed. But hey, the occupants can sure make that more comfortable pretty quick!

Ohhhh yes, certain sicknesses that have no explanation or are put down to psychiatric can in some cases be cases of spiritual possession. Some kind of infestation. You know once they used to think all mental illness was demonic, NOW they do the opposite and don't attribute anything to that. I think this is a bad mistake. I think all cases should be investigated and if there is an illness, fine treat it. If they find evidence of possession, then treat it. I think it's worth doing anyway because that could cure somebody and give them their life back.

I know a lady who has worked in a psychiatric ward and she said she prayed over many many patients and many were set free. No amount of psychiatric evaluation, drugs, or talks were doing anything. And it's also said that some illnesses can seem eerily like possession, yet they can be true illness.

I guess seeing as the brain is another organ, it too can get ill. Chemical imbalances can cause a dreadful outcome and behaviours. I know of a lady who was a cop and was a lovely person, highly thought of, excellent cop. She had a head injury. She survived and "healed" (if you can call it healed). From that moment on her personality altered horribly. She became quite vile in her language, sexually promiscuous to the extreme (taking men home with her from pubs and I mean biky type guys and completely wearing them out). Violent and her job was on the line. SHe started to attack people whom she was arresting. Punching them in the face if they gave her any lip. Totally uncharacteristic behaviours.....

It was thought that this was it for her, she would live her life like this. It was discovered she had lesions on the frontal lobe of the brain from the accident. But she was one lucky woman, the lesions HEALED over time and she came back to her old self, met a nice man and married and had children.

So sometimes it's hard to tell I think if it's genuine spiritual possession or something else. But I always think that it is the wisest move to pray over these people either way. Certainly it isn't going to hurt! Sadly though, these days they have gone to the other extreme and wish for an apparently rational physical explanation for everything. The spiritual is now no longer considered for the most part.

wow, you have been through a lot yourself. Thank goodness you turned in the right direction! Plenty of people don't. And when you do, that too can be isolating because you can find members of your own family are not and think you odd for changing or taking onboard "God". I'm lucky with my parents, but I certainly cannot really talk this way to most of my relatives. i'd be laughed at or probably thought insane. Oh well, if that's insane? Then I'm happy staying that way.

The death bed conversion? No this guy wasn't dying. He's just really old (104). He came to Christ very late, but I am not sure how long he was a Christian before he died. Certainly that wasn't his motivation apparently. I guess someone may have been praying very hard for him.

Oh yeah I'm cynical too about death bed conversions. I always think there are people who think they can leave it to the last minute and then convert. God isn't a fool, He knows full well if someone is sincere or doing it out of last minute fear of the possibility of it being a reality. He's merciful, so one hopes that they are saved, but I'd be wary of having that kind of mentality. I personally would'nt play that game. The bible says we are not to put God to the test.

Yeah astrology. That was one I was into quite a bit (apart from the future predictions, which I never bought into). But the star signs analysis? I was very into that. Mum got me into that believe it or not. Poor Mum, she'd cringe if she heard this. I was a teenager and she had a book. A very old astrology book with our family names in there (relatives dating back). I was fasinated and I think this was my first introduction in that direction. Seemingly so harmless it was, a bit of fun, but that took me down the path towards ongoing interest and then led to other things. I still have that book too, because it's an old family one. I threw out all my other ones.

Oh sosick, I have to tell you this one. This is true, but it sounds so over the top, that I hestitate as to what you may think. But here goes and let me know what you think of this. Could it be coincidence? I don't know.

I was 23, and this was the time I was making a journey towards God in my own way. Reading the testimonies on angels and feeling so uplifted. Dad had been praying to God for sometime that I would throw out my books on astrology/occult. I had them all in my bookcase. He never told me he'd been praying. So I had no idea.

I had a book on magic/demonlogy and all sorts of stuff that caught my interest. Well, one night, the urge to throw these things away was almost overpowering. I was alone and flatting with my brother at the time (who was out). I grabbed all those books and threw them into a bin. I did not even wish to hand them onto a secondhand book shop, I felt I would just be passing on the bad to others and would likely answer for it.

So in a big plastic rubbish bag they all went. One by one. I felt no regrets doing it. Tied it up and put it outside ready to be taken to the dump....that night, I got into my bed and read a little I think and then turned the lights off and settled down to sleep. Now this is where it got very weird and I don't know what to think. If it's a normal occurance? Let me know.

Bang on midnight I heard a screeching sound outside the window. This screeching was the sound you would expect from a crow/ raven. It was SCREAMING and I lay there frozen thinking "what the hell would a bird be screaming at this hour of the night outside my window????". It reminded me of something out of a horror film. I stared at my clock and it was dead on midnight.

Now this was so bizzare, that it reminded me of the contrived kind of occurance you'd find in a film, but this REALLY happened. This was no little tweet, this was unnerving.

I wasn't terrified, just shocked. I got up the next day and told dad about the books and he was quite overjoyed and said his prayers had been answered adn then I relayed that odd occurance to him and he said it is quite possible this was a reaction from what you had thrown out, but he wasn't certain.

I thought I'd run that one by you. It's always intrigued me as to what on earth that was and why? You know you hear these things sometimes in horror films and you become so used to it, it seems very hollywood, but if/when they ever occur in reality, you feel silly relaying it because of how contrived it may come across.

But hey, that's how it happened! Odd it was. But yes I still have some residue stuff around I know it. I think this is because at that time I only had my main stuff, and the rest was in the family home. Whereas now I have it all, so there is still a few things mixed up in there.

Yes I believe in Hell in all its horror as Christ described it. No doubt in my mind. And experiencing the occult and manifestations that were horrible, gave me a touch of that reality. I regret ever getting involved, but certainly nobody can ever tell me these things don't exist. I know what I experienced.

Thanks, I am trying to get better and making efforts, but it's mysterious and ongoing. By salt...do you mean blessed salt?

Sorry, I wasn't sure. Whether you mean that or genuine celtic sea salt or similar.

Hope your health is going well! I don't think my mum is doing too good with what's in her mouth. Packed full of amalgam and gold and root canals. What a mess! I see her and she's so tiny looking, you could blow her over. She won't get work done, she said it would all fall apart it she did and she cannot afford it anyway. She eats well, but I don't think it's enough frankly.

The healthiest people in my family coincidentally have false teeth! But I remember I got pretty healthy with amalgams at one stage. I just had to make extra efforts, but the condition remained. AS you know yourself, it's a case of doing what you can to lessen the impact. Diet was great for me, and garlic supplements were too. Plus rebounding and things.

So yeah it can be done, but then I never had what mum had. No gold and no root canals. Just 8 amalgams, but certainly my body relied on me to keep things in a way it could handle. Going off the diet wasn't an option! I owed it to myself to keep up the efforts.

If I had amalgams now? I'd do exactly what i used to do. I can tell you this, what i have now is worse than what I had then.

So yeah keep up what you're doing. By the way, if you haven't seen this link? You might be interested.
http://www.drheise.com/dental.htm

Check out what it says re composites. Doesn't sound so great eh? Mind you, I'd not go that far, plenty of people do fine, but I see the risks there and it's a concern for sure. I think I am quite glad I swapped to cerec!

anyway sorry this is off-topic, but just felt like posting that up for you to read. Let me know what you think of it.

Cheers <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Frontal lobe injuries... I have heard of that too, the really vile behavior. But I'm not ruling out spiritual things even with that one, even though it is also a physical injury/problem. I have been watching stuff like that for years, how people change after a bad accident, frontal lobe or not. I'v come to the conclusion, and from my own experiences with being sick or injured, that unclean spirits cluster around sick people, maybe hoping to be the first to get at them if they die. And really really bad accidents, I think they will actually enter a person's body and cohabitate and when the person wakes up everyone says, hmmm, they've changed, must be the injury. Really just my guess on that one but that's where I'm at with it.

That's funny, I did exactly the same thing when I got saved, and for the exact same reasons, didn't want to pass it along. Every now and then I'll pick up a movie that turns out to real trash and do the same thing still. I know it's hard but you really do need to toss the old family book too. That one especially, with all the names in it... let it go. Odd to think 'things' can affect our health and stuff, but let it go and you'll see. Keeping it is a burden to you.

The screaming, yeah I have heard plenty of it. Blood curdling screaming, yelling, even weeping. My daughter has heard it too. We heard it even in my parents' house before my mom died, we both heard it. There was actually an evil spirit that would call my kid's name in the last city we lived in. It wasn't in the house but if there was an open window... so she got early lessons about the devil starting about age 5. I have told her relentlessly to pay attention to this stuff, and not mention it to people because they will say she's crazy. but I need her to pay attention and understand i experience it too. ignoring it is the worst thing you can do, saying it's your imagination. I have told her, the day will come when the devil really comes after her and all these experiences, i don't want her to forget. If he cannot get to her by herself he will use her friends if he can so she needs to be on her tippy toes concerning the devil. So a few times a year i will say to her,,, remember this? remember that? i don't want her to forget the things she experienced as a child. When we moved here something literally slapped her in the face as she came in the door one evening. She was about 8 yrs old then. There was a ghost in this house when we first moved in and it did get evicted. It bothered me every night for a few weeks, i prayed and it was gone. The first month we were here there was a bit of it, screaming outside one or two nights, , blood curdling, make your hair stand on end no kidding, other strange sounds, heavy duty growling, the slap, voices in my ear at night, an old man saying weird stuff and laughing... but after that it's been quite peaceful here. Whatever/whoever... Jesus got rid of it, for the most part, but like I said above things wander in still from time to time. we have had a major increase in things since that guy moved in next door with the autistic kid. My daughter even saw her first ghost, instead of just hearing them. We have experienced things in every place we have lived, which have been a few, in the past dozen years. I tiried living in the midwest for a short time. That house had ghosts bigtime. you could hear them wallking at night, they would rustle papers on the shelves, damage stuff. The garage door would go up and down. The electric was always going out, the fuses. The water pump stopped working. My car always had a flat tire. One night it was like someone had a pneumatic drill, like they break up pavement with, and was hitting the side of the house with it. It was real loud and the whole house shook. I kid you not. Obviously this was a problem, our being there, so we left. It was very unpleasant anyway, the house was full of bugs, major. Too bad, it was a really pretty old farmhouse. There was even this cow in a field next to the house that would actually snarl (snarl, really, a cow!.. raised curled lips..) and chase the car when i drove by. That is very strange behavior for a cow. She would do it each and every time, all the other cows would graze peacefully. It all gets to you after a bit, I was very happy to leave from there. Why people stay there I have no idea. They were not nice neighbors either, well one guy was ok. I saw tons of ghosts out there, just like you see in picture books, ladies in old fashioned white gowns and stuff, i have never seen them like before or since. That's where i saw the lights/ufos/whatever they were but plenty of it, too.

The screaming.. not sure but I think maybe an angel of the Lord is after them at point. arrests them so to speak, thus the very loud screaming, like a woman being dragged by the hair behind a pickup is the best i can describe it. Again, just my guess but that's where I'm at with it.

The weeping ghosts we heard in an apt building in Richmond Va were unnerving. They would scratch on the walls there too. It was a brand new building, no one had lived in that apt before us.

Part and parcel of why we came out here where there are less people. less people, less ghosts (with th exception of that little town in the midwest). but there are still some around. We went about 4 years here without any incidents at all. I felt like I was on vacation <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Too bad about the new neighbor i have no idea what to do about that. Mentioning it goes nowhere I have tried but don't want to start a fight. My other neighbor mentioned the guy gives him the creeps and so he doesn't even talk to them. I first heard the little girl talk in the strange deep raspy voice after praying over her. I heard that... I prayed a bit more... i said hmm... ok, this is more than i can deal with and i have to leave it the Lord's hands at that point. Whatever they've got, they are allowing it to stay is all I know. I have been praying a lot about it lately because they wander in here and we all notice... I do believe the Lord took some things away just last week but it's probably just the tip of the iceberg with that one.

It's so weird all of it isn't it? You have to be real careful who and what you associate with I am sure of that. I never would have believed any of this before I got saved. It has to be the presence of the Lord that brings it all to a climax wherever we go, and also his presence that makes us more aware of it too. I have learned one thing for sure over te years... you do not run from ghosts/demons or let them scare you... they will always try to make you run... you have to sit still, have faith, don't let it unnerve you, have peace with God, and let the Lord take care of the situation... yea though I walk through the valley of death...

Yes, I have heard that those sick, damaged and/or vulnerable are a target for the demonic who seek to get in anyway they can. Usually apparently through damaged emotions. So I can believe that front lobe injury would be a way the demonic could gain access also. LIke alcohol, I guess that's why they call it the "Demon drink". Drunk people are sitting ducks also.

Whoa, you and your family have really had some extraordinary occurances! That's amazing. I have had "incidences", but nothing like what you've experienced. My Mum lived in flats that were apparently haunted. Nobody ever stayed there long, constantly moving on. Mum and her family (when she was a kid) were very poor. They stayed for a good while and Mum said there were things going on there. E.g. you'd hear a group of voices chattering in the lounge area, even at 2 am or something. Quite clearly, but you'd never be able to make out what was said. Just sounded like a group of people talking. The same thing happened often. LIke a tape recording playing back. They all heard this apparently.

Another one was hearing someone coming up the porch and then nothing would happen. You'd be waiting for the front door to open, but nothing would eventuate.

On Xmas, mum said they had cards lined up on a long piece of string hanging from one corner of the room to the other. They all heard a noise and watched as one card after another was flicked down in unison. No wind, nothing. Perfectly, one after the other.

Doors opening. Even doors that were solid and shut properly, would be opened again. That kind of thing. Nothing bad so to speak.

The only time something bad happened Mum said was when her sister got involved in the occult (seance and ouija board). Her sister and a friend would play with this a lot and got so good at what they did, they would use the science beakers at school to do it.

Well of ocurse, that reached a bad climax and one night Mum heard her sister screaming and Mum ran down to her room and said the room was ice cold with a dark figure bending over her bed. So that was the last time her sister meddled with this stuff. Mum told her to leave it alone.

Mum also had something horrible occur. She had gone along to one of their "seances" to try and contact her dead Mother (bad move). Mum was reluctant, but they continued to ask until she gave in (this is before the incident with her sister). At any rate, things happened. There were quite a few of them around a table and Mum said at one point the glass lifted off the table and shattered. And they all ran from the room. Very frightening. But that wasn't all. Later that night, Mum was sitting up in bed doing a crossword and she said something took over the power of the pen and drew an evil face on the paper she was working on.

So yeah, we've had our share of odd things in our family. My Father, who has never been into any of that stuff. He hates it. But he had one experience in his life. He was a little boy playing with his brother I think in the dining room. They had this big long table with a white table cloth on it. Dad said him and his brother were playing at one end of the table and they heard a sound and both looked up at the sametime and he said a hand was rising up and down at the end of the table. It was black, like burnt with long black nails and it just fluttered up and down. Nothing else was there, just this hand and then it faded out, vanished. He said it was the most evil looking hand you can imagine.

He looked at his brother and his brother's face was white as a sheet. So he said I knew he had seen it too. They didn't tell anybody about this.

But as you said, not to run from these things. Certainly they cannot harm you anymore than God would allow. But it's one things to actually put that into action. That I hope I never have to do again. But it is still a reminder that these things exist and sometimes it doesn't hurt to have a taste of it. I don't mean seeking after it, but if God allows this to occur sometimes without provocation, then He's got His reasons.

Anyplace we have ever lived, since I have been saved, and these things occured, I have prayed and they have ceased. It has sometimes taken a few weeks. The really haunted area in the midwest... I do believe the Lord led me there just to show me things outright, because I had doubts or was confused about these things, and never intended me to stay there.

You should never ever allow unclean spirits to cohabitate in your household. they can hurt you.

The guy next door with the autistic girl, they found him dead on the floor of his kitchen this afternoon when the little girl returned home from school and no came to pick her up from the bus. Truly, I kid you not.

I told him there was quite a bit of something about him, the spirits, even that whatever it was was bothering us here. He should have listened.

These are not good days to be sitting on the fence. he was only 43 years old. appears to have simply dropped dead but the cops are looking into it..

Hi, well before I got serious with God. When I played with the occult and suffered a lot of torment at night in my room whilst in bed, all the praying didn't seem to help. in fact, it made whatever it was in the room worse! Almost like it made "it" angry and this increased my fear and made me afraid to pray.

Yet when I got more serious with God and started thinking about Him mre and reading better books and feeling that I was going through a conversion, that's when the fears left me and whatever "it' was in my room had no further power over me. The night it left, but before it did, I felt spiritual hands around my throat and the attempt to choke/strangle me. I felt it so strongly ordinarily this would have been terrifying, but I rested in God if that makes sense. I just lay and felt peace. I was not afraid.

I felt the hands struggling to hurt me and then weakening and the figure finally withdrew from my room and from that moment on, I had no further problems in my bedroom. (except occassional stuff, which was never ongoing).

So though it's about prayer, the occult game playing and not truly converting doesn't quite mix. Yu find yourself in a real frightening position. It's like I prayed ONLY because I found myself in a situation I could not deal with...yet I was not really converting to God so the prayers seeked to make the situation seemingly worse. I got really afraid and realised the prayers were making "them" angry and the stuff would worsen. So that kept me in a bound position of fear, which is exactly what they wanted. I was weak and an easy target.

Well sosick, I have to say you're post has left me shocked. This is very creepy indeed. The guy DIED. I mean you were just mentioning him to me in an earlier post and how there was something not right with him spiritually.....

43 years of age is far too YOUNG to just die like that. Good grief, I am intrigued to hear what they find out about his death.

Yes these are not the days to sit on the fence. I agree with you and I think we're going to find it get more that way as time goes on. I'm noticing that it's becoming more and more clear (light and darkness). People are having to take sides an this will become more dramatic I think later. It's already happening.

Did you know about a movie coming out regarding Creationism/evolution? It's going to cause an uproar I think. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It is shocking. I am just spending a couple days skiing.

later, be blessed.

Have a great time skiing! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/skifast.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/byebye.gif" alt="" /> See you when you get back!

Wow what a bunch of weirdness huh?

Seems the cops decided he simply died, no explanation, they cremated his body yesterday a friend of his told me. I peeked in the window there, a total mess in the house, relatives have been going through stuff, piles of food crumbs everywhere that were covered up by his piles of junk that he accumulated the past several months.

What a life. Well. as usual, it leaves no doubt in my mind that when you sense the presence of wandering spirits around someone, no good can come from it. That was a battle for his soul and he ignored it.

Our house has been much quieter. It was real weird, the day before, on Monday, stuff was falling down all around our house, stuff fell down in the laundry room, a phone book fell off a shelf, my skiis stashed in a corner toppled over, the dishwasher half broke, the thing that sprays the water came off somehow, I fixed it, ... what else I don't even know.

Then by Wednesday it was as quiet and peaceful as it used to be in here.

maybe a great blessing for the girl, she will probably go live in Florida with extended family that are more capable of caring for her.

It's a great relief for us. So much strangeness was exuding from that household. did I mention to you the time my daughter was babysitting the girl and she came out of there and there was a pentagram, a perfect pentagram, scratched on her forearm? She had no idea how it happened, only that it happened while she was in that house.

That is the strangest thing. He just "died". hmmmmm. Circumstances like that, with no evidence of murder or anything else always make me wonder. Keep me posted on that, I'd be interested to hear if they do actually find any reason for his death.

Oh, to have things falling down like that and the kind of disruption you speak of reminds me very much of how things got in my own room when I was playing around with the occult, only yours was caused by external problems coming in or at least around your home, whereas I brought mine with me by what I did. It is just like unrest basically. A sense of agitation that you can't quite explain. When peace hits, the difference is amazing. Yet nothing has outwardly changed. I can get the same feelings around individuals too.

YES, I do remember you mentioning that bizzare occurance with your daughter and the pentagram!!! That is extremely disturbing to say the least. Gotta wonder what the heck went on in that house and now this! You've experienced a lot in this area. You get to experience both sides and really there is no doubt once you've been there.

I've had pets growing up, cats and a dog and the dog for some reason was usually the one that would sense stuff if something or someone was there that we couldn't see. The cats? Didn't seem to pick up on things quite as much for some reason. Dogs? Heck yes!
It's quite an unnerving thing when you see your pet dog stand there staring at "something" and nobody else can see it, but he sure can. I had that with my own dog and when he's in your room, on your bed doing it in the dead of night, it's not the most comfortable thing to be around. I remember the time Mum told me about her auntie running over to their house in a panic. Apparently this lady's dog was in the lounge and had seen "something" (to everyone else was invisible) and the dog had bailed something "invisible" up in a corner and was snarling, lips drawn back, the whole deal. And had its head looking upwards, exactly as tall as you'd expect a human person to be. Hackles up and everything. The poor owner couldn't handle it and ran from the house.

I tend to hear this much more with dogs for some reason. Whether they're just a bit more sensitive to the supernatural, I don't know.

That is true about dogs, I have had two dogs in my life that were real sensitive to spirits being around the house. I had another for a short time that was dumb as a doornail though. The cats impress me as more easily influenced by spirits though, different reasons I don't want to get into now. Some cat i've never seen before showed up the day after that guy died and has been hanging around his door. I threw a stick at it.

They won't find any reason past what they found already... nothing... they already cremated him. A friend of his that came by to pick up some stuff said that he was in town earlier and people saw him and they said he was looking real grey that morning.

I don't know Bex, really I don't. Past being here next door and being bothered by his demons and praying real hard for it to cease. never expected that outcome though. I was actually also praying for him and his daughter, for God to look into the situation and help them, watching that situation for several months as a neighbor, it's been quite a while since I have seen such despair. The autistic kid was real real hard on him.

had it been me I would have laid down and put every bit of it in Jesus' hands. I do that all the time in my own life and things tend to go amazingly well when I do. Personally I think the guy simply wore himself to a frazzle... the demons, not sure, but he had plenty driving him all the time. My gut feeling is that because me and my daughter had been praying so hard against it all for so long, there must have been some decision made somewhere, the demons apparently were not leaving without him. But my imagination runs wild with that one.

I was actually the one who went into the house and found him and called the cops after the bus driver was knocking knocking blowing the horn for 10-15 minutes. I was outside chopping wood for the fire watching the whole thing so I went over to help the bus driver, and anyway... It was a gruesome sight, I didn't look at his face though. But anyway, I am trying to get the image put of my head so if you don't mind I really need to drop this for now and move forward. Basically that's all, many demons is all I really know about it. And they did intend us harm. And now they are gone. the rest is in God's hands.

Everyone who knew him seems to know something about the demons around him, I've mentioned it to 2-3 of his friends, they all knew. The little girl talking in the strange voices was kind of hard to miss.

Kind of helps me realize once again why pagans and wiccans and people like that hate Christians. They will never ever come out and admit it though. It's not good for non-Christians to be around me I know that already. The demons always lose. People become casualties in an unseen battle.

anyway.. I have a bunch of work to do... love you Bex, keep praying.

Yes cat's are very sensitive too. We had an unusual incident here when our cat "Gus" died (female). She was a very sensitive cat, but also extremely hostile to any other cats, so she never associated with them. One cat nextdoor to us, whom we barely ever see (they think it may have been abused by previous owners), hardly ever goes anywhere. If you ever see it on your property? It's rare and takes off.

Well, Gus was about 14-15 years of age when she went down hill in health, so much so, there was literally nothing more I could do for her and the vets pretty much finished her off with their meds (surprise surprise). in fact, you won't believe this, she got ill after a booster shot and developed bone cancer (amazing eh?). If that wasn't enough? She was put on thyroid meds and then she went blind. Then they put her on blood pressure meds to try and bring back the eyesight more and then she couldn't take anymore and basically she was dying before my eyes. Here is the weird thing. The cat nextdoor "Oliver", whom you barely ever catch sight of, suddenly began making an appearance and he'd be seen sitting at the deck of our front door, or walking around right the house. He just seemed suddenly interested and curious, but he'd leave when we would show up.

Well, the day I had Gus put to sleep (after she couldn't even walk anymore because of the bone swelling, blindness and goodness knows what else), we brought her body home to bury her. It started to rain as we were burying her outside and who should be perched on the fence watching the proceedings? Oliver. He just sat in the rain on the fence watching. I had NEVER seen that cat do this before or since. And what cat is going to sit in the rain like that? He didn't even run away when we turned around.

So for sure, these animals are highly sensitive and far more aware than many people give them credit for. As are any other animals I'm sure. Yep, you do get some doozy dumb ones though lol. Mum had one of those. A big dog called Zeus (they called him Zeusless). he was a kind gentle dog, but oh dear!

Yeah, the stuff you were mentioning is probably best put to rest considering how disturbing the entire matter is. For sure, it's in God's hands. Best place for it all....but one can only hope certain people were saved. That concerns me more than anything. Nothing is worth losing ones own soul. The idea of gambling with that is frightening, even for the sake of some momentary sinful pleasure. Even life long pleasure isn't worth that. Considering eternity, this life is so very short.

Oh yeah sosick there is a battle going on for sure. You know my father has been taping those "lies in the textbooks" and giving them out to people? He's also been getting them out to secondhand shops like "Salvation army" "st Vincent De'Paul"....well get this, everytime he goes in, they've been gone. So people are definitely snapping them up. But here is something recent that happened. He said that he noticed the tapes were still there and he went in and opened the covers and the tape inside was gone. So someone is going on, removing the tapes and leaving the covers.....

I thought perhaps the guy working in the shop maybe Christian but evolutionist and really doesn't want this stuff getting out to other people. But he knows if the tapes are gone, Dad will replace them with more. So to leave the covers there, it gives the impression the tapes are still there.... That's just my view. It could well be someone coming into the shop and doing this. Whatever reason, someone is removing the tapes and leaving the covers behind to create the impression they're still there.

See in video shops, game shops etc, it's normal to have covers as displays, but they keep the tapes and game behind the counter to stop theft from the shelves. That's normal, but this does not happen in secondhand shops, What's there is there. They're cheap too. also Dad checked the other videos around and he said they all had the tape inside.

So yeah, for sure, it's a battle in more ways than one. He also said that if he gives these videos to the libraries, he knows full well that any librarian who happens to be evolutionist will likely do a disappearing magic trick on the videos! Certainly Kent is hated isn't he?

God bless!

Cats can be wierd, spiritually... the egyptians used to worship them as gods... had to be a reason for that. Witches seem to like them too. I don't think they are sensitive as much as i think they are easily influenced. you know the story of the demons that went into the swine in the bible right?

Ours are just pets though. I had one one go completely biserk after being vaccinated. he died a few days later. About seven years ago.

it's a very strange world. Mine has been a very strange journey I guess. That story about your dad and the hands is very creepy. Reminds me of some ghost faces i saw once... but later... I am in the initial phases of my 5th liver cleanse here. Last one was very unfinished, egads of toxins engulfed me after a huge stone came out and I finally feel ok enough to head back into that and finish up. I cannot wait till tomorrow, my head has been stuffy for 3 weeks. The liver cleanse usually clears all that up for me.

Well, the liver cleanse went real well. I have been feeling a big stone or something in there all month since the last one but couldn't get to it... seems to be gone the next few days will tell for sure. Really ruined my last month of skiing feeling yucky like that. argh.

I am tired of ghost stories how about you? It's endless and unarguable for both of us at least. Maybe we should concede that inapparent (heh) fact and move onto something else. Any ideas?

I saw on television that there is a new movie coming out titled 'Doomsday'. Seems to be an idea generating headlines in people's brains these days. Maybe it will be a mass hysteria event.

Does God answer your prayers Bex? I was just wondering. I know there are certain things that I do in my life that make him very attentive to me... and vice versa of course. Hopefully your dad will figure out a solution to the disappearing tapes. There's got to be a better way to hand them out than second hand stores anyway, although that is always an option. The world is really screwed up. people don't want to know they have been deceived. it shatters their self-image.

I'm glad to hear the liver cleanse went well for you! Well, I've been doing humaworm and humacleanse for about two weeks now I think and so far....nothing. Same thing happened on my other parasite cleanse...."not alot". BUT, there is still time to go on it, so I'm seeing it through.

Yeah the ghost stories could never end lol. We all have them and they always interest me, I'll watch the real life ones on TV anytime they come on.

Doomsday....well yeah, mass hysteria? I don't know what's up. But there are two Christian evangelists whom I respect very much who are pointing to the doomsday date, simply because it's been pointed out for thousands of years apparently. By many reputable prophets. We all know about date setting, it usually winds up in red faces! BUT, there certainly does seem to be something around that particular date mentioned. I'm interested, but far from obsessed by it and in all honestly, I know God's in charge, so only He knows. I don't believe in the end of the world anyway, the bible doesn't say this at all. The world will never end actually. Cleansed yes! Unfortunately God's purifications iaren't a picnic <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> But it's necessary.

Sosick God, for the most part allows me to walk through the desert (spiritually). Some people walk through a field. This is the only way I can describe my journey. I'm one of those people that seem to have to struggle along in spiritual dryness and only occassionally do I get a spoonful of honey. This is how I describe it. In all honesty, some of my problem is personal sin I think too. pure and simple. When I oust it from my thoughts as well as actions and pray, I start to feel closer and sometimes things happen. When I have sin inside, thoughts etc, something happens. A barrier goes up. So God means business for sure. I think He hides and it's painful when He does this, but it forces a person to search, not only for Him, but to search themselves and find out WHY? I don't always believe it's punishment either. I think of Jesus on the cross and how bitter it was for Him as well as excrutiating and nothing was sweet for Him. Not even a cup of water was He given, but rather something bitter. HE felt abandoned and cried out and was given no answer. He allowed Himself to feel our humanity and sense of abandonment. Yet He had committed no sin.

I don't understand God and don't pretend to. His ways are not our ways and I do not believe He has "favourites" either. Yes I believe some people appear to receive blessings and others seem to get what appears to be a slap in the face. It depends how you look at it. We were told to take up our cross and follow Him. We were not told to expect ongoing consulations and feel good stuff. It's God's business how He decides to deal with each one of us and how He decides to communicate. Our needs are completely different. I've heard of many people who go through the dark night of the soul and sometimes for years on end. Some of the holiest/prayerful people who must have felt like giving up. Why? Testing, strengthening, purifying us in our attachments of the world, making us feel like Christ did. I've walked away from Him and come back and walked away through sheer anger and frustration. Why does He give a friend of mine so much faith and consulations, even though she has spent a life full of parties, drugs and frankly was not a nice person, she also was a thief. She decides to come back to God when everything falls apart and it's all great. I never really "left" God or did all those kinds of things and I have felt ignored much of the time.

Well, why do I find that people around me who don't even believe in God get the very things I've asked for? Pleaded for? The most normal natural things are theirs even without asking. Yet I wind up with? an empty plate. Still sick, no healing, still struggling, no answers...

well I can take the usual stance I always took and feel sorry for myself, or decide that I am cursed, or decide that God isn't interested in me and somehow I'm just one of the nobodies (No such thing, we know that, God didn't die for nobodies), or decide that it's God's business and I need to be content with where I am at until if/when God decides to lift this off me. In the meantime, it's about getting my own house in order. An ongoing battle for me. I'm always drifting away and back again from Him. Faith for me is never really constant, I feel indifferent a lot. I know I'm ill, that has something to do with it, but I don't believe these times are easy either.

I've always struggled with my relationship with God. He's not littered my journey with consolations and sweetness! He knows best. I get bits of it here and there though, but they are few and far between. Again, when I get personal sin out of my mind / heart, it makes room for His presence much more. If only I could keep it that way, because sin is temporary and always leads to a dead end. I think God is tougher on some of us than others. He doesn't love anybody more than the next person. He died for even the worst sinner. That says it all. But again, our needs are different and it is all about getting to Heaven. That in the end is really all that is going to matter. spiritual dryness along the way is painful at the time, but for those that hang in there, the reward and consolations will be beyond our imagination and will never cease!

If one feels they are getting a really raw deal? They need to start reading the lives of some of the previous holy people and have a good look at what those people went through. Suffering is unfortunately scoffed at, the cross is scoffed at, yet we were not told this life would be a cake walk. The road is narrow and few who are who follow it. I hope that whether my prayers are answered, or whether they are answered in ways I don't understand, that I never lose my faith. Even if it's taken a battering, and it has and for years too.

Anyway that was long winded! Sorry about that.

Well the answer to the disappearing tapes, you've already guessed. Sad eh? Well, through the secondhand shops, he is then able to hand them out. Because on the tape is our phone number. So if a person picks up a tape, likes what they sees, they phone up and chat to Dad and then they want to have copies to handout to others. Word of mouth is great. I guess yu're going to get the bad stuff along the way, it happens. But he's not giving up. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In a way it would be nice to have a place where he can hire them out himself and then if people like it and want a permanent tape, he can give them a copy.

I was going to mention maybe a teeny little ad in a local newspaper for the tapes but it would have to have a phone number... but if he is already including the phone number it should't be a problem. There are places onthe net to advertise for free yet also, maybe you could find something dedicated to NZ. I know Christianet.net (i think that's the url) used to offer free advertising. Mostly the internet is not the free thing it used to be several years ago though.

God... I think, if he truly cares about you, your walk is harder in a lot of ways. He chastens those he loves for instance, whereas for the rest, they can do whatever they want. I know in my life he has actually taken things away from me, quite obviously... because even though I seemed to enjoy them momentarily, in the long run they were bad for me or caused me to make stupid choices or run with the wrong crowd... or worst, forget him.

It would seem to me that if you feel he is ignoring you, he must feel you are ignoring him in some way. He must have put something in front of you at some point and you probably haven't yet picked it up, so to speak.

You can avoid those 'dark nights of the soul' simply by praising him, you know. He really is never far off. I have been there and back so many times... and the only way i know to break out of it... well two ways... pick up the bible and get reading... well three ways... talk to him, talk to Jesus when you are alone, you can't see them, just assume he hears you (my salvation was worked out that way over a period of several years about 20 years ago) and the 3rd way, I have lots of christian music CD's, praise and worship of all sorts, some of it is great stuff and i love listening to it and of course I sing my heart out... I have to wear headphones or I get compliants of it being too loud but still...

Some prayers that are very effective... ask God, ask Jesus to make you the woman he wants you to be, to direct your steps... ask him to search your heart... tell him you need more help with it all.

and then pay attention because chances are slim to none he will ever stand right in front of you, visibly and tell you exactly what to do. though I have heard pf people experiencing that... in my life he has told me some things quite directly, usually when I am sinning (or about to) and he wants me to stop... but I have never seen him. And he will usually speak to me in a dream, sort of dream but i'll be half awake it's weird, about stuff like that... he will show me what I am doing in a dream, he will show me what the effect will be in the same dream, and then he leaves me with a word or two about it at the point I am waking up from the dream, so I remember and hear his voice aside from the dream, like he is right there next to me. He has done that to me many times over the years. Have no doubt though, I get some strange dreams now and then that I know are not from him too. But, the bible does say the holy spirit will let us know what the devil (as a general term) is saying about us so maybe that is one way he does that, by allowing that in now and then as a warning of what is still around us. I am guessing but that's where I'm at with that one.

I think one of the major reasons he doesn't speak very directly to lots of us is that there are things in our lives, of the nature we were discussing above, that will take advantage of our attempts to communicate with him, with Jesus in that area because I don't think God ever speaks to anyone directly these days (I could be wrong) but Jesus does, the holy spirit does.. and God sends angels he surely does... but the problem is that because we can't see him or even if we could... the devil provides a cheap imitation for everything God does or would do in our lives and many people fall for that. It's important to read the bible, God will never veer from his word. The devil tried to play God with me when I first was getting saved. I didn't know the difference at first, I was bible stupid, didn't know it hardly at all. I did some really stupid stuff trying to 'hear' God. So don't try to 'hear' God in that sense, because he speaks to us in lots of different ways... and if he really needs to, he will speak to you directly in some form or another, if you pay attention, you'll know.

My search for God was pretty fervent, almost at a fever pitch prior to me getting saved. I came to the realization that I could not know God without Jesus, only Jesus. No saints, no virgin mother, they all may be there somewhere but they are a distraction if you focus on them because it's not what you really need. It took me years to overcome that part of my catholic upbringing, but when i did it was like a window to heaven opened up. God wants us focused on Jesus, he's the teacher, the consoler, along with the holy spirit but Jesus gives that to us too. A lot of times the things we learn at church are actually stumbling blocks in our relationship with Jesus. It's in every church unfortunately. My daughter when she was younger had a heck of a time trying to reason how a lot of the other kids at church could be christians when they behaved so hatefully toward each other for instance. So, we go for fellowship, often to simply make an appearance, but it's not the foundation of our faith or relationship with him. There's an awful spirit of adultery and sexual sin around so many churches today. you really do have to be careful. a lot of christians sense it, even follow it to theor own detriment, but seem pretty much completely ignorant of it. We are suppose to be learning to overcome those things, and it applies to other things as well. Read the bible and sing praises to him Bex, and see where that takes you. I love where it takes me.

One morning I woke up, about 3-4 months ago... and i couldn't see them but there must have been angels, a few of them, lady voices, and they were singing one of the christian songs I listen to a lot... really, i did not imagine it. What I would really enjoy is waking up that way every day <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. all sorts of little things like that tell me God is near all the time. Just the other day, it was weird, I got a phone call from a city i have never gotten a phone call from before... a christian woman wanting to know something business related... the funny thing is all the past weekend I had been researching this city/area on the internet because i was thinking it would be a real neat place tp live and i had asked God, Jesus, just quietly talking out loud at my desk like I do... i said 'father, what would you think if we lived here, would it be ok?... do you have people there?' and then two days later the phone rings.

Not to bring the subject back up because really really I do not want to but I thought you might be interested to know that I ran into another next door neighbor this morning that I rarely see anymore because he has been working a few hundred miles away and just comes back now and then... but he asked about the dead guy and I said yeah... and i know this guy pretty well from when he used to live here all the time and I mention the ghost stuff and he say ... 'wow that's funny because Brian (a friend of his that has been staying at his house here now and then the past couple months) asked me if i had ever noticed anything spooky about the house.'

he will ask him exactly what he meant, why what happened to him, and then report back.

it wasn't just us experiencing it apparently.

Hi, yeah that's an idea....though I think the newspaper is too extensive with a phone number to be put there. Having a video with it in a shop is not quite as "seen". lol. I can only imagine the freaks that would phone up!

Dad is constructing ideas for a website I believe, though I'm not sure if the videos will be part of that. I am kind of hoping it will, or at least a section of it (non denominational would be the best way, simply to get the word out there to anybody).


I believe this to be so, particularly the ones who tend to stray, but the heart is in the right place. I too have had things removed from me, particularly when I was healing really well from years of mercury detox. I was becoming healthy and strong, but unfortunately and sad to say, becoming increasingly sinful at the sametime. THe road I may have headed down could have taken me into a very very bad place. I do not know whether to attribute my sudden virus after that to where I was heading, but it was very very coincidental and something that never left me and when that occured, it blew up everything in my life. Chatisement? I don't know, but pretty weird stuff. Certainly sickness of the soul is far worse than anything of the body. We're to be afraid of what kills the soul, rather who can kill the body. Still doesn't mean I should wallow in illness, but it does make me wonder.


Yes, I have thought the same thing about feeling ignored. Somehow I think I do the same to Him and then when things go wrong and I start crying out and feeling ignored, it reminds me of how I treated Him over and over again. I don't think He plays tit for tat, but I think it's a strong reminder that a relationship with God should not be based on accident/emergency situations but there needs to be something much deeper and consistant. That's the issue, inconsistency on my part and then expecting Him to reveal Himself when I cry out in the wilderness so to speak.. Too attached to the things of this world I am. I think He hides when he desires a person to get closer to Him, to give more up and seek Him more and more. I think those that experience more dryness and difficulty getting answers are put through some very difficult trials for reasons only God understands for that particular soul. Be it unconfessed secret sins (thoughts included), sometimes an unwillingness to give those things up and then wondering why when great spiritual exercises cease to produce a result because part of us is is far from Him. Out of union with Him. Blocking Him out. NOt always, sometimes it's testing and purifying.

No He's not far off at all. I just find it hard to admit I have blocks up because of sin. Plain and simple. When they are removed, thoughts/actions, something seems to open up and I become suddenly stronger in faith. I think personal sin is one of the biggest barriers to spiritual growth and openness to God. There is pride involved too somewhere, somehow, you can often find that. Again though, it can be testing and God hides sometimes to force a person to start moving to the next level. You know, sometimes when you first come to God, there can be the honeymoon stage and you think this is going to go on always, I'm so happy. Suddenly, later on as you grow in belief/awareness, it's withdrawn and then comes the testing and strengthening. A bit like a baby being weaned from the MOther's milk. This is how I felt when I was getting closer.

I cannot praise God unless I have uprooted sin, it's funny but I can never combine the two very well (like oil and water) and my faith becomes a joke too. I never really stop "believing", but it becomes more of an intellectual thing, rather than the heart. But my faith becomes very unstable at that point. The bible is not of interest either when I'm in sin, nothing of God tends to be at that point. It's a bit like a wall goes up, God is still there, but unless I take action, He's left knocking at a shut door. In my mind? I interpret it to be HIM shutting the door. And I become bitter and depressed.

No, we cannot know God the father without Jesus, absolutely. I consider the virgin Mary a Mother and someone who points us to Christ, as do the saints and angels. I don't focus on them as a form of worship, because they are creatures, not the creator. Rather further confirmations to me of the power of the holy spirit and the glory of creation. It also is a great inspiration to me too, knowing they're on our side <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> considering the amount who are not. I'd say they're wonderful alllies. But no substitute for Christ. I pray to Christ, I pray to the Father. I talk to Him. Sometimes I feel it, many times I do not. consistency is the key, faithfulness and uprooting of sin in our lives. I've had moments where I"ve "felt" the closeness and it actually aches because you're feel you might burst. If that happened everyday, I'd be on cloud 9 permanently. Unfortunately the walk is usually a dry and difficult one.

Yes sosick there is a heck of a lot of sexual sin, outside and inside the churches. Seems to be one of the biggest human weaknesses and Satan never rests, night or day he prowls about seeking whom he may devour. This is why we are to put on the armor of protection daily, not just occassionally.

Wow, the voices you heard? Singing? Um no I don't think you imagined it, I've heard this from others also. It most definitely does occur. One lady we know who is in the choir/band at church said that there have been some inexplicable occurances to where they have all heard angelic singing along with their own usual singing and music and she said that the voices go beyond what a human can achieve, plus there is no pauses to take a breath <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> They rise up and down, reaching all pitches in a way that never interfers or shocks, they just blend in beautifully. This is apparently quite common.

One blind lady apparently has experiences with the angelic. This lady was a suffering soul, terribly afflicted. But oneday she said they were going through her house singing and her friend was there and of course the friend couldn't hear a thing and said to the blind lady "Could you ask them to raise the volume a bit?" and the blind lady said the angels actually broke down into peals of laughter. LOL, I loved that!

The "coincidence" you speak about here:


Is something I experience too, particularly when I'm closer to God. Suddenly these things can start occuring and it's almost like the blocks or barriers are removed more, and you start noticing the funny things He does and the ways He works things out. But heck, If i'm sinning? In thoughts or whatever? The blocks remain. It's not something that one can just toy with. sincerely seeking God can never be sincere where there is sin in our lives/thoughts. God doesn't work that way. He deals with us in a way that can seem to hurt badly, but it's done to draw us away from stubborn sin and closer to Him. This is what He wants for all of us. I've heard of Saints speaking of these problems too, this is why I enjoy reading about them because I see that they're struggling in the same ways we do and it makes you realise that ANYBODY can be a Saint. In fact, we are all called to be Saints. "Be perfect, as my Father in Heaven is perfect". No such thing as impossible with God, because it's not us, it's Christ in us that makes us holy. And the more we die to ourselves (selfishness) and the more we take Christ in, how can it not be? I've met people that are so filled up with Christ, that you can almost feel it around them. You want to be near them because of Him. These are the people that actually create conversions around them because the holy spirit is almost irresistable. To reach that kind of status? Well I don't think God asks for big things, it's often the little way, the hidden way that pleases Him most. "Become as little children". I understand now what He means.

Whoa! that is quite creepy. When you get a further confirmation like that to what you had already sensed and experienced, it kind of tells you that there was activity around that man and his daughter. Whether self inflicted or something else may have been done in the house previously that left its mark. That's another one I've heard of. One book I read, probably one of the most frightening books I've read yet called "Haunted" or "The Haunted" (one of those is the true story and more freaky than fiction). Usually that's the way. Truth is stranger than fiction. Absolutely horrifying what happened to this family. They wound up living in a house that was on land which had been used for I think satanic practices. The house was absolutely infested you could say and the goings on were extreme, not subtle.

So extreme, that I believe that even when they would leave to go on Holiday to get away, it would follow them. The stuff they saw in the house was almost beyond imagination. Enough to scare a person to death. Even the neighbours reported goings on when the family were not even in the house. Dreadful stuff. They finally sold the house, but I believe it wasn't quite as easy as that in getting away from it. Not sure how long they suffered with it. The pictures of the family showed a very ordinary family, but the eyes were haunted looking. That look that has seen it all almost. I felt profoundly sorry for them.

anyway, sorry to get back onto that, but it just made me think of it when you mentioned the house! Creepy stuff.

i really do hate to go back into it but there it is I guess.

But no, we have lived here 5 years, this is a townhouse, he was right next door, the other neighbor (the one I saw today, and he has lived here 12 years) behind us, and the place was always as peaceful as could be until the new neighbor moved in several months ago. Truly, by all accounts, this land is blessed, not cursed with anything of that sort. It's a very very Christian area, deeply faithful people who truly love the Lord live all around us. Which is nice. The neighbor i saw today, he's an entertainer, he love to sing gospel songs. The local sheriff even pastors a church. There's some wiccan around but a good several miles up the road... the kid's mother was involved with them i think. I asked vaguely when my daughter came home with the mark on her arm. maybe he was too, really I don't know, he was just a neighbor, I never pryed all that much. people like that lie a lot anyway so it's hard to say.

I really think it's simply the proximity. I really want to know why Brian said that, I don't know Brian, I know he's been there 2 or 3 months but i have literally never met the guy.

That's true about the praise and worship and singing btw. If you don't have any good christian music you really have to get some. the one I've mentioned is real good, david crowder, Steven Curtis Chapman is good, there's all sorts of good contemporary Christian music out there today. I picked up this one a while back called 'Song of Angels', forget the singer's name... but that is a bit different and real good too, pretty heavy duty that one sort of awesome. You can look it up i ordered it off the web, they all have websites. Load your spirit up with stuff like that and then see where you are at. I think you will like it.

This song of angels cd that this from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3BiJTRwI-8

(there seems to be a lot weird stuff out there by that name or sort of, I meant this one)

Thanks sosick. You can shut your eyes listening to it and especially if you're in the right state, it's powerful. It's like listening to the bible almost. Seen the description in there of angels...I think the passages that really got me were some of the most incredible and bizzare description were - the book of the prophet Ezekiel. I read that and it blows me away and it reminds me of where it was said that eye hath no seen, nor hear heard what things God has prepared for those who love Him. I cannot imagine what kind of angelic creatures He must have there. I'd imagine that a full sight of one of these in its full glory would kill any human being, if not for the grace of God.

Have a look at this link. http://www.choicesforliving.com/spirit/angels/angels.htm
. These do happen and experienced by many more people than realised. The Kansas one unfortunately has gone all slow sounding. The first time I heard it, it was at more normal speed but it is such an old recording. So bear that in mind when you hear it lol. The solo voice when it was at more normal speed sounded like a much younger "man" (angel?) and was beautiful. I just wished it hadn't gone all slow.

I really really have heard them. This time, a couple months ago, was the first time i have heard them since way back when i got saved... back then they sang Christian hymns, obvious christian hymns but I have never heard those songs before because I hadn't been to church in like 10 years and had only ever been to a catholic church when i had been... anyway... the very first church I landed in after this salvation experience begins, they were singing the same songs the angels sang to me!!!!!!!!

I knew right away I was in the right place when i heard the people of the church singing those songs!

God is so cool. Thanks for the tapes, super. My daughter has to hear this! The ones I have heard were not such major choirs however... of course my house is not a major congregation either <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The guy who wrote the Song of Angels cd, he says the music is the rendition of visions and visits from the Lord and his angels. he has quite a story, his wife too.

So many people experience the presence of God there Bex, in heavy duty praise and worship... saturate yourself in some good christian worship music and my bet is... you will find Him right there by your side. You'll know his presence, the love that fills the room is awesome and unexplainable with words. you have to experience it to know.

I've never heard it happen myself, but have no doubts it does. What does it sound like? The voice/s? The only other person I know of whose heard it is a friend of ours in the band at church. She said she's experienced it more than once and you know your voice and the rest of those with you very well and suddenly you hear others there (when there is nobody else there). When you consider the angels must be forever praising and singing to God, it's no wonder they'd join in whenever praise/singing to God occurs. Even if we can't hear it, they would be there.

Have you ever experienced a heavenly smell come out of nowhere? Near you, kind of like incense or something? And you know full well nothing has been lit or no perfume worn and something about the smell is just heavenly? I have had this before at night, once in my room on my computer (no windows open by the way). And a spontaneous scent of incense filling my room and so dramatic, that I turned immediately because it was like someone lit one right near me. I got up and walked and the smell was down the hallway too. Nobody was home but me. No windows were open anywhere and it was dark.

I can't really give much explanation for that, but the only thing I related it to was probably the fact Dad had been in my room the night before and prayed a prayer with me (which we NEVER usually do together at all)....other than that, I don't know.

Oh and I must tell you this one. This freaked me out big time. I was flatting with my brother and this is when I had my cat "Gus" (female). Well, one night (this is when I was going through my journey getting closer to God). I was lying in bed in the dark with Gus on the end of my bed as happened every night. She was lying down and very restful. Well, I decided to pray. Not out loud, just to myself. I had my eyes shut and I think there was only a bit of light coming in from the hall or I still had my bedside light on. Well, as I was praying I felt Gus stir on the bed and thought nothing of it. But then I felt her walking on me towards me (I was just lying on my back praying) and I thought what is she doing. I opened my eyes and sosick, this cat was standing on me, her pupils were so dilated her eyes looked black and she was literally right in my face staring at me and wham, she belted me in the face with her paw. I mean she looked genuinely upset or agitated. I stopped and told her off and she gradually retreated.

Finally she sat back down and I started to finally pray again. Well, what did she do? Started coming towards me again and I just got up and yelled. I mean this got to me. I have no idea what got into her and why me lying there praying upset her so much. The fact I had to actually tell her off for that was the strangest thing. I thought now what on earth was it about that which got her upset? lol. I told my Dad and he was laughing, but in a sense it's actually a bit unnerving.

And speaking of this. Here's another one. My Mum used to walk everyday to her work in the morning (Library) and eachday she would walk past the same house with a dog out in the front yard. Big dog too, but it never bothered her. It would just look up and then go back to what it was doing. Big fence, mum wasn't worried. Daily, the same walk, and never an issue from this dog. WELL, get this. Mum was also making a bit of a journey to God (I guess we all were around the sametime, funny what a divorce can do). And this particular morning she decided to pray. So she did. She prayed her way to work. But, as soon as she walked past this house with the dog in the yard? As she was still praying to herself (making no noise), the dog suddenly went absolutely BEZERK. She said it literally hurled itself at the fence, barking viciously at her. It was so bad, Mum said she felt her heard pounding and had to speed up to get past the property due to the noise of the dog. She just about died of heart failure.

What do you make of that?

Yes, I have experienced the presence with the right music too. I've had it before and the first time I got certain CDs, which I had never previously bothered with. Even just enya, I remember the sense and atmosphere of the entire room literally change when playing that music. An angelic sense within the room, very strong. Sometimes I don't when I am extra sick and darkened and blocked. There really is a difference depending on my state of mind/health and spirit. But oh yes I have felt it for sure with music. There is no doubt that music has a strong influence in the spiritual realm. I have felt also a dark presence in certain music bands, even though I enjoy their music (on an earthly level), I have felt a strange kind of coldness, clamminess along with it. Hard to explain, but I would get this when watching pink floyd, yet I never really thought about why.....

I remember watching "The Wall" (the video). But I sat and felt the whole atmosphere change. Now I know the video is not exactly supposed to be uplifting, in fact it's depressing, but quite genius. But I felt more than that. i said to Dad there are times with some of these bands where you can cut the air with a knife.

I get the same sense when walking into a nightclub, so I never really bothered going, even as a teen. I got it around certain situations too and people too. It's a clammy cold feeling, the kind where you feel dark and horrible. Geesh, I used to try everything to get rid of that and even got drunk in those situations to numb it away. It never worked really. I'd hazard a guess and say it's still there, but I haven't been in any situations to visit those places or people so I don't know. Not sure if it's just my illness and it could well be, or more to it.

What i make of all that.. the animals... you know in the bible where Jesus exorcises the crazy guy and the demons go into the swine? That's pretty much what I make of all that more or less... but not every demon leads it's habitation over a cliff.

I have heard stories from people involved previously in witchcraft who would communicate with their familiar spirits and they say the spirits can see the angels of the Lord that accompany some people. Animal can have spirits just like people, we are vessels just like the bible says. Remember the story of the cow I told you? I ask the Lord to cleanse every animal that keep. They don't seem to suffer from that. One dog way back, the dumb one, when I prayed for the Lord to exorcise her, she literally fell to the ground and started shaking.

anyway... you'll notice that if you encounter an animal like that, your mom's case for instance.. the dog barked visciously but my bet is it would have never really been able to get close to your mom or hurt her, it actually would have turned and ran rather than bite her if the fence weren't there to stop it from getting too close. What the dog barked at would have also stopped the dog dead in it's tracks, count on it.

The angels sound like a wonderfully harmonious little group of 4-5 lady singers when I have heard them... no accompanying instruments.

There are certain types of media we do avoid, and places we don't go... if angels don't tread there then I can't expect the Lord's protection there either soooo... but in this world you can run into the darndest things just sitting in a family restaurant. People carry things around with them so to speak. 'It runs in the family', an old colliquiallism you might want to pay attention to.

some very nice smells, the fragrence of strong myrhh I remember well.. others...

If the room suddenly smells bad, musty or poopy, without reason, also a sulphur smell,, it's a good idea to pray. Pray outloud so it hears you, let it know you are calling upon the Lord. Unclean spirits do sometimes smell that way. There's an abandoned old house up the road my daughter says smells pissy when she walks by there with here friends, pissy smells we stay from. they walk quickly

yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death your rod and your staff they comfort me...

Yeah, I definitely remember the story of the swine in the bible and how the demons preferred to be unleashed into them, rather than go back to their own domain or go find another home to dwell in. Frightening when you think that even if they're exorcised, they can come back in greater numbers than before.

I think animals can be used, plus I think they can sense agitation also or feel it in themselves with the spiritual. Almost like the atmosphere gets charged and they pick up on it, like with my cat coming over and amost attacking me, as though she just wanted me to stop. Something in her or around her that was agitated, obviously affected her or she was used by something (as you said). Temporary a vessel. It was the weirdest thing. I didn't even want her in my room after that, but it didn't happen again.

The same thing happened when I had my music on, she'd attack me. Either becuase it was spiritually disturbing perhaps (worldy music) or just too loud. Whatever the reason, she do things to make me stop. I always had to get her out of my room before putting on music, or I'd cop it. That included the praying that night. I think animals are very suseptible to changes in the atmosphere and the presence of the demonic.

That's amazing about your dumb dog too. Now what do you make of this one. I can't confirm this, but I read about it and found it very disturbing. A little girl was playing in her room with her doll and came out all excited claiming the doll was dancing on her own. The Mother, thinking of course it was all imagination (this was not a doll with batteries by the way), eventually after being pleaded with by an over excited child, made her way down the hall and she said she actually heard the thudding of tiny feet and opened the door. sure enough, the doll was moving/dancing. After being in a state of stunned horror, she got hold of the doll and burnt it. She said it was the most horrifying/disturbing thing she's ever experienced, like in some kind of sick horror film. I've heard similar too. Pictures on walls, dolls, all kinds of things seem to be tools for the demonic to play with. Any open vessel or somewhere, where they can warp the animation and scare the occupants I guess.

I had problems with pictures on my wall, whether due to that or imagination, I coudl never have them up for long. Any picture of a face, whatsoever would be contorted at night whilst I'd be lying in bed. I just couldn't stand them. But I gather my over active imagination was no doubt mostly responsible for that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So you've had the spontaneous scents too. I wish that would happen more often! Never heard the suflur smells though. Or anything like that (as yet and hope I don't).

taking a break from the cre/evo forum right now. I find debates easily taxing, too much for me. I used to thrive once, but I was a stronger specimen. Now I just find I get adrenaline rushes and inability to keep composure. It's never good for me to get into them, but sometimes I can't help jumping in. Bad move I guess. appreciate and admire you and the others by the way. Love your posts!

God bless you.

yeah well it was my intention to do everything else except this all this week but when someone is slandering you and blaming all their odd behavior on you... it's difficult.


the doll, worthless to burn it it did';t move on its own.

Sulfur, I have an enemy straight from hell. he's a woose really all told in the presence of the Lord, like an idiot he is.. took me a few years to get that right though. He got me one time one time real bad. Praise the lord, literally. everyday. everyday.

cats must be easy to manipulate or something. i had another way back, 25 years ago, that really went bonkers for a few days too... there was a definte presence where I was living at the time... lights would blink on and off, the door literally unbolted one day... my sister was visiting and witnessed the chair in the kitchen move all by itself...

but ho hum... ghosts. really what an odessy of weeping and gnashing of teeth and trying to get the attention of the living. I figure, any wandering disembodied spirit is not of the Lord, is not with the Lord.

but anyway... the Lord said to me during my salvation experience.. and it was him himself I truly believe, not an angel of his... the presence, the glory, all of that... he said, 'clean the house' (meaning me. my mind and heart, and also, literally, the house, of unclean, so to speak, things) and he also said to the holy spirit he left with me... it was the last thing he said as he left that time... he said... 'keep salt in the house'.

Bex, toss out what might keep him away, toss it if you are not sure even. nothing in this world is worth keeping of it keeps him away, if it brings conflict to your love and obedience to him, nothing. Be a worthy servant of the talents he has gievn you, even if that doesn't seem like much today, it will someday if you. start now. he works quite quickly too from my experience.

time is short i think. every morning I pray.. 'father I pray you bless our day, guide our steps and hold our hands, help us to hear your holy spirit and to be obedient to you and a blessing to you, amen'. every day. the holy spirit gave me that many years ago. one day i forgot to pray and got into a car accident, about 8 years ago. the only time I ever forget to say it up unto that point, the only car accident of my life.



I am doing a series of paintings to his name, declaring it. abstract, real pretty, should cause quite an outrage in New York. the evil spirits in all al the people will hurl in their stomachs as anger as it imprints on their brains.. did I ever tell you of how when I was saved he put (yeshua) his (invisible but quite really there) hand on my head and my life flashed before my eyes, all my sin?

bless you Bex, hang in there, have faith. read the bible do your best to obey.

visit some churches. don't eat pork or shrimp. they are killers.


I am drinking strong wodka. the hope is to wake in the morning a bit groggy and grouchy and say eh to all of this board for a bit. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I really do have a lot of work to do. YHVH.

I am listening to Fred Hammond 'Radical for Christ Pages of Life' ever heard that one? I have been playing it over and over all day I haven't cued this one up for a few years, how did I forget... super.

Lord you made me for this reason and this purpose..

shabbat shalom.