Ah, RAZD. I see that your polysyllabic cliches' (i.e. verbal diarrhoea) has set in.



RAZD, you admit that an embryo exists in the first few weeks......and have said that many of them fail to form, so the miscarriages that occur showing an empty pregnancy sac and nothing more cancels out the belief that human life begins at conception. But rather only begins with an embryo. This is not so. Life begins immediately after the egg is fertilised. What happens from there on maybe another story, whether successful further development or failure.

I can well understand a failure at any stage of the process, whether at the beginning before the life has had a chance to establish itself, or even at the very end of the pregnancy. If it fails to develop further after conception, then of course you will NOT see an embryo, but obviously you will only SEE the discharge result of the pregnancy sac. At the moment of conception, the fertilised egg is the size of a dot in a line of print. But that "dot" contains the full DNA. Of course it's invisible, but invisible does not mean non existence. To repeat, this dot contains the full DNA as is seen in every cell in our full grown bodies. BUT, it also has all the living micro-forces necessary for a full autonomous human being. Currently, attached to the Mother. That is why doctors admit that the morning after pill is a "threshold" abortion mechanism and condemned by many.

Also I never disputed the existance of an embryo at 3 weeks, i have shown you already that they exist by the pictures and have constantly repeated this. This is from successful conception and successful further development, to which abortion removes.

I simply do not agree with what you are saying in regards to conception not being the start of life. Your opinion or those you believe in, are in contrast to the many I've quoted on here (doctors). Life, according to the many I've quoted, starts at conception. Are they all wrong?

Perhaps, according to you, they are! Let's pretend that life does not really exist until you believe it does (only when you can see it's taken form inside the pregnancy sac). Which is a successful (so far) pregnancy.

Even with this belief, how does this justify abortion? Abortions remove life, they do not remove "nothing". We are talking about a developing human being with the full genetic code, it is neither half human or half animal. So it should never be gambled with.

Whatever stage of development that life is in, as I have repeated many times and is backed up by doctors, everything is already there AT CONCEPTION. No new information necessary. There is no evolution in regards to gaining new information in the womb as time goes on. The information is there from the very beginning. All that is required is that nothing major goes amiss and the unborn life continues to receive what is required to make it to the end of the pregnancy. Some even die during the birth process for various reasons. Just as an embryo failed to develop, a baby can die during birth.

And here is what takes place during different stages of abortion.

In first-trimester surgical abortions, the tiny embryo or fetus is literally dismembered by the abortionist and "vacuumed" out of his or her mother's uterus. This is called Suction Aspiration Abortion.

In Dilation and Curettage Abortion, the abortionist uses a sharp instrument to dismember the unborn child and scrape its remains out of the mother's uterus.

The comprehensive Web site Abort73.com best describes the Dilation and Evacuation Abortion, usually performed in the second trimester. During this procedure, the abortionist uses forceps "to dismember the fetus by seizing a leg or arm and twisting it until it tears off and can be pulled out of the uterus. This will continue until only the head remains. Finally the skull is crushed and also pulled out. The body parts must then be reassembled to ensure that the entire baby has been removed."

It doesn't stop there. Currently, the U.S. Supreme Court is considering lifting the federal ban on Dilation and Extraction Abortions, also known as Partial-Birth Abortions.

ARE THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE ABORTED BABIES REAL?

Taken from this link http://abort73.com/HTML/I-A-4d-authenticity.html

It is a common tactic of abortion supporters to claim that abortion photos are a fake. This is the same tactic that Holocaust deniers use. Photographic evidence is hard to argue with so those who think abortion is a good thing, will try and discredit the evidence.

The Center for Bio-ethical Reform (CBR), the organization which secured these abortion images, addresses such claims on their website, and includes the following quote from Anthony P. Levatino, M.D., J.D., who is both a physician and attorney:

I, the undersigned, having performed induced abortions earlier in my career, have examined the photos depicting the aborted human embryos and fetuses used by The Center For Bio-Ethical Reform in their public education projects (www.abortionNO.org). It is my professional opinion that the photos depict aborted human embryos and fetuses and that the depicted aborted human embryos and fetuses are accurately captioned as to age, in weeks since fertilization.

There are many other former abortionists (and some current abortionists) who will corroborate Dr. Levatino's statement. Tammy Sobieski, who works at a Florida abortion clinic, said on television, in response to the abortion pictures on CBR's trucks, "What's disheartening for me is the lack of trust they have in women, that they think women don't know that that's the reality of abortion." Almost no one in the abortion industry is as honest as Ms. Sobieski, and this a statement she likely wants back. From her own mouth, referring to the same abortion images seen on this website she says, "that's the reality of abortion."

As to the age of the embryos and fetuses pictured, that is verifiable through any of the prenatal teaching texts listed in the "Medical Testimony" section, or through prenatal websites such as.

http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/wwwhuman/Stages/Stages.htm

http://www.visembryo.com/baby/index.html

Finally, there is the common sense question of motivation. Why would anyone make these photos up? If these pictures were all a big hoax, if abortion wasn't really destroying tiny little people, why would so many people sacrifice huge amounts of time and money to oppose abortion? It just doesn't make sense. Abortion advocates have a significant financial stake in abortion's continued availablity. It's easy to see why they argue the pictures are fake. The pro-life community, however, doesn't make money in opposing abortion. We lose money. Why would we do that in defense of a hoax? The pro-life community exists because these pictures are real, because abortion does kill people, and that's a hard reality to argue with.

RAZD, by you wishing to sit here and debate incessantly about conception with both our views contrasting on this alone. In the last 30 minutes or so, 90 un-born human beings have been sucked or dismembered into oblivion in the USA alone.

This is no mere emotional argument, this is plain raw fact. No amount of intellectal verbosity or polite patronisations used as a smoke screen is going to alter that harsh diabolical reality.

However, things are happening and a growing realisation is apprently beginning to slowly change the tide as more people are able to view the reality, rather than be 'told" what to believe.

Just a note here. Anybody reading this who has had an abortion or has been supportive of it and regrets this at all after viewing the other side? Then your regret and change of heart makes doing this worth everything. Regret is great, ongoing guilt is not. God is merciful indeed!

If this offends anybody here? I make no apologies.