PWCCA,
You said:
I’m trying to make absolutely certain that the conversation does not steer into that direction by pointing out the fallacy of religious/biblical-based arguments. I’m anticipating what always comes up in this age old debate. A summary glance at all the posts in this forum should prove to you why I would think someone is on the verge of posting bible quotes here in the first place. Just read pretty much any other thread here.
However, what you appear to fail to realize is that YOU are the one bringing religious arguments to the discussion (not Bex), since all you have offered are your opinions, which are based on YOUR collective set of "beliefs" (i.e. your religion). Furthermore, you pre-suppose that Bible-based arguments are a fallacy and should be disallowed from the debate, yet everything you say in your post is based on Your Belief System (the YBS religion). This is just sheer hypocrisy.
You start your debate with:
All you’re saying here is that if everyone went out and had an abortion there’d be no people left.
No, that's not what Bex is saying...you're simply restating what she said, and incorrectly at that. But then you go on and seem to ignore your own remark by adding:
But considering that our withering world is racing towards a brick wall at break neck speed right now – due primarily to overpopulation –
What is your proof of overpopulation? Is this just your own belief? or did Al Gore say it was so? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kookoo.gif" alt="" />
You also said:
I don’t think anyone would willingly accept life if they were born into abject poverty coupled with disease. The only humane act in these instances is to not bring them into this world.
Again, this is your YBS religious argument. (I will add that I'm glad I'm not on the receiving end of this kind of humane-ness.) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nurseblinky.gif" alt="" />
Which begs the question... Do you know anyone who is in "abject poverty"? If so, did they actually tell you they would rather have been aborted than given the chance to live? Perhaps we should take a poll and find out how many people would rather have been aborted.
But since you already used the phrase "you don't think" to preface your moral statement, I will safely assume that your above comment is another of your own BELIEFS. Thus, your collective belief system (your "humane" religion), dictates that life in abject poverty is worse than death.
Oddly enough, according to many who have served in humanitarian relief efforts in third world countries, people in "abject poverty" actually value their lives and the lives of their children abundantly, and, in many cases, experience a more profound sense of joy than most of us living here with all our "luxuries" in America.
You also said:
I place far more value on a living hamster’s life than that of a 3 week old human fetus.
This is yet again, another declaration of your YBS religion and moral values...which I'm sure the hamsters of the world appreciate greatly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swcreature.gif" alt="" />
Then you go on to ask:
This begs the question, do you eat meat?
Unfortunately, this is simply an attempt to divert the subject. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yes.gif" alt="" /> But then you divert again...
Your next statement about Christianity is quite interesting:
My two closest colleagues at work are staunch Christians, both of whom I have the utmost respect for and absolutely no qualms with their belief system – primarily because they do not have qualms with mine nor seek to dissuade me.
I'm not surprised that you "respect" people who don't "try to dissuade you". However, could it be that those "respectable" people would rather just lie to you than bother having a real discussion with you? Then again, they may be simply too fearful to "offend the shadows" or just too selfish to care what you believe.
You continue your belief system's anti-religious hypocrisy by adding:
And it isn’t that I “don’t wish to hear about your reasons which are religious based”, it’s that this line of thinking is a fallacy. If you start using your religion as the backbone (or any part for that matter) of your argument, then you’re only speaking to those people who already agree with you. To these types of people we must all ask why they enter a debate in the first place.
Well...we then must ask why YOU entered the debate in the first place. All of your comments are based on your YBS religious viewpoints, which, since they are religious, are, by your own proclamation, a fallacy.
Next you said:
Perhaps because the mother in question is a rape victim, terminally ill (i.e., has HIV/AIDS), or lives in the squalor and decay of some 3rd world nation. You’re not doing the potential-infant any favors by bringing it into this world. I value life and I also value reality and the necessities (lesser of two evils, call it what you will) which life imposes upon us at times.
The irony here is that making laws based on the 1% odds or worst-case possible scenarios leads to bad laws and to the ultimate stripping away of personal freedoms that you, as a pro-abortionist, so adamantly demand. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/followtherules.gif" alt="" />
Yet, in the next breath, you want to deny the freedom of life to an unborn child who is to be born of someone living in "squalor" in the name of, what, humane-ness? Because allowing the child to be born wouldn't be doing him/her any favors, according to your YBS religious faith.
So then, based on your YBS values...why should we stop at abortion? Why not go ahead and make people living in squalor sterile, so they can't reproduce in the first place. Would this not, according to your beliefs, be even more humane? There would be no child to abort and no nagging questions for the mother to concern herself with about whether or not she killed another human being.
Honestly, who is the one with the religious agenda here? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/questionmark.png" alt="" />
Perhaps someone would like to respond to the facts and science (supporting life) that Bex has provided with like substance. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/anyone.gif" alt="" />
