Thank you too RAZD and Linda for your views.

You're correct RAZD, abortion is legal.....and is it possible for laws to ever be wrong? Should we ever question it? we must ask why is it legal given the definition of murder and definition of a human being?

Our beliefs of our origins and life most definitely colours the way people view themselves and humanity as a whole. Just as I could say to you that my creation/Christian beliefs call us to respect all human life, especially the weakest and most vulnerale amongst us. How much more vulnerable can you get than a baby still relying on the protection of the womb to grow? Remove that and of course the growing baby will die! Does it mean that it really wasn't fully human yet? No, just not fully grown.

Though the baby obviously requires 9 months to fully develop, it still has the full information ready (from both parents) from conception so that all can unfold during that time.

Certainly it is not subhuman. So no matter what stage its at, it still has the genetic code of a human being. Which makes it - human. The law is obviously not infallible. Certain laws that have been changed or put in place do not always ensure the right outcome. Some feel the justice system is almost back to front. But, we'll stick to the abortion issue <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You state that a premature baby often dies because it has not yet reached the full stage of development.....this is true, but does this make it any less human? Even a born baby will not survive for long without Mother's milk because it is still vulnerable and certainly still growing/developing and requiring breastfeeding on an almost continual basis. The fact the new born baby cannot stand on its own, cannot wash itself, cannot control it's bladder or bowels yet, cannot form words, cannot even see at a distance as yet, is still evident that the baby is of course still developing/growing...yet it is fully human. Every stage of a baby's development is precious and should be respected as human life. We already know that Haakels pictures were a total misrepresentation. And I believe that it hasn't stopped there.

An egg on its own or sperm on its own does not produce a life. The miracle result from the two meeting in fertilisation is where a new life is created (an individual). As the genetics/information from both parents is passed on, which then set the immediate stage for this individual to grow. And this new life should be respected and allowed to reach it's full development without being deliberately torn from the womb.

You ask me what percentage is it human? It sure isn't half human! it already has all the information. I believe it is 100% fully human from the moment of conception.

Do I think we as born adults have the right to play god with the unborn child and remove it's life should it become an inconvenience? No. Am I convinced by the apparent powers that be that tell us it's not really human at this point? No.

And we know that there are premature babies who thanks to the intervention of good human beings have survived outside of the womb with proper equipment (doesn't always work out that way obviously). I know teenagers that can't survive on their own <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sick or old people requiring intervention due to sickness/dying/vulnerability are no less human either and just as worthy of aid as a premature baby (within reason, unless the person is brain dead). if we have the means to help? Then we should do so. I am not in support so much of keeping someone on lifesupport if it leads to nowhere. If they are already brain dead! Then sure, letting death/nature take its course is sometimes the only way to eventually go.

But this is not the same as the deliberate removal of a life, or deliberate negligence if one has the means to intervene.

Do excuse me if my response here has not been quite up with yours in literacy/complexity! I tend to respond as clearly and simply as I can (within reason).

With that aside, emotions and beliefs clearly do come into it also. If we all have no real meaning to our beginning or end, then the unborn child's existance and right to live is therefore debatable according to what we decide. If WE decide that it can be aborted at certain stages, then we can make it "ok" for likeminded people of a similar belief system.

However, if one believes in a meaning to the beginning and end to life and that this is not all there is? The value of life and human beings becomes apparent.