I've googled the web and here's what I've found:

1. Andy Cutler says not to TOUCH ALA with amalgams in place:

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/208048.html
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/119971.html

Andy's recomendations of what to do before amalgam removal

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/907.html

Moriam's excellent index of Andy posts on various discusson boards:

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ANDY_INDEX.html#dental

2. "Q: Do you use TD-DMPS with amalgams or do you remove them first? A: Get the mercury out of the body because removing amalgams can be very expensive. Just chelate the mercury and don’t remove the amalgams. If you do remove the amalgams, it is a good thing to get an IV-DMPS within 12 hours because the mercury floating around the body is so high, but you can chelate with the amalgams still in there. They will not disintegrate or fall apart."

From: http://www.defeatautismyesterday.com/Buttarnotes.htm

3. "Also a metal chelation group is telling me that my symptoms are definitely from chelating w/DMSA for 5 months while amalgams still in. But NP told me yesterday that�s a myth."

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/200838

4. This guy asked the same question in this "curezone" thread:

http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=36450#i

I found this interesting website of a very opinionated Andrew Levin on chelation. Andrew maintains that DMPS and DMSA are not chelators and they do more damage by moving mercury around the brain. His only safe chelator is Selenium.

He apparently gets a lot of his opinion and information from web discussion groups. He seems fairly well educated on nutritional supplements also.

http://members.tripod.com/mueller_ranges/links/compendium/chelation.html

his main page:

http://members.tripod.com/mueller_ranges/links/compendium/compendium.html

personally sregan, I have not found any of the advice about not chelating or not using ALA with amalgams in to be true.

I think that after 11 months of chelating with amalgams in I'd know by now. maybe a few people that cutler knows of had problems with it. and I also suspect that a lot of people who follow that protocol don't have a doctor to tell them that the intial bad ressurgence of major symptoms is normal for chelation, amalgams or not.

when i was gouing into the clinic for chelation i met a good 10-15 people in their 60's and early seventies, maybe more I forget, with amalgams in their mouths and they were chelating and doing real well with too. A lot of people without amalgams don't make it to their 70's but all of these had and had done it quite well. Mostly when i asked them if they had amalagms, were they going to remove them, they would ask me, Why?

I think if you have a leaky amalgam that might be the biggest problem. that has to be fixed.

DMPS was extremely effective for me btw. I had my first real relief after a couple months of being pretty ill after they started the DMPS IV with me. EDTA made me feel pretty crappy but they said it was necessary. I always felt real good the day after EDTA though.

A little more info on Mr. Levin. (His page does have lots of excerpts from message boards. I don't think you can discount those unless he's edited them or made them up)

Andy Cutlers comment on Andrew Levin:

Levin's link on DMSA and DMPS study showing they were "suboptimal" as Mercury chelators:

http://www.iodine4health.com/research/george_2004_mercury_chelation_dmsa_dmps.pdf

In my experience with years of mercury poisoning, Cutler's advice was the only advice that was the most accurate and helpful. Other stuff I read was negligible or risky and harmed me a great deal.

Selenium does not chelate mercury, if it did, I would have gotten well from that. I improved somewhat, but it was more from protective effects and encouraging antioxidant activity that enabled a certain amount of mercury excretion but it only went so far. DMSA chelation went much further than that!

He has treated hundreds of patients around the world and does so successfully, which is why he is gaining in popularity. I would personally tend to lean towards following his advice more than others because he's got the experience and the know how and has proven this time and time again and has also dealt with enough people who have been injured by other protocols to give strong warnings about them. In fact he gets very irate about it because in his eyes it is NOT necessary. As for worsening of symptoms? that is expected and happens to almost anybody trying to chelate and detox, but the symptoms should not cause near insanity or someone being almost crippled for months on end and this is what he has dealt with. I have been there and when Andy says there are cases of IRREVERSIBLE damage, I would listen up! I'm very lucky I did not end up that way myself and even now I still wonder.... I took many things in the early stages that screwed me up big time, horrific effects and not something that should ever occur. I understand worsening of symptoms, but not to that extent and at what cost?

If he says do not chelate with amalgam fillings, it would be wise to follow that advice, unless you want to take the risk and give chelation with amalgams a go. That is up to you. Works for sosick, but has been harmful to others.

you may need to go back on past threads to find out what cilantro has done to people. Someone brought this up and others replied and some did ok on it, others warned about using it and what it had done to them and others they knew. Again it maybe an individual thing, but I have not heard such extremes wth andy's protocol....unless someone decides to alter it and do it their own way by taking too high a dose to start or extending the time between doses. People have indeed done this and then blamed his protocol. Come to find out, they hadn't followed his properly.

I'm not saying this is in every case, I am sure it may not suit everybody but you find very positive reports on this forum about it and other forums (frequent dose and adult metal chelation). If I could turn back time, i would not have wasted so much time screwing myself up by random chelation and would have started with his immediately!

On page 5 of that pdf, page 1004 of the paper, it says quite directly, 'There is no doubt tha DMSA and DMPS are effective, to some degree, in the clinical treatment of mercury of mercury poisoning though not in all cases'.

I think most people would agree with that if they have used either or both. it's not perfect, but it;s what we've got, which is often a whole heck of a lot better than nothing, especially if someone is real sick.

The DMPS IV's seemed to pull so much junk out of my blood I swear i would feel 3 pounds lighter the next day and it gave me relief from some very nasty fog head like nothing else would at the time.

Selenium is great btw, but don't overdo it, it can be very toxic in high doses. I take a 260% DV a couple times a week. it does help. There aren't any overnight cures for this.

I would say that that is pretty much it. Even though I don't fully agree with what i hear people who use that method saying, they believe it works for them. for me, something else works so i have never tried that method. For me, i think it's too much synthetics on an ongoing daily basis. that is a big turn off to me. Even with IV's i only did 2 per week at most and rested and re-supplemented the other days. Using any oral chelator daily is going to create some issues because of the lack of absorbtion of minerals via your digestive tract, (due to the remnants of the chelator in there) i do feel that is cause for concern with cutlers method so you probably really have to mega-supplement a lot with that method.

If something works for you, by all means, stick with it. But if you have been chelating for months on end without any noticable progress I would say there's a problem with your method.

Sosick, I would not recommend Andy's protocol so enthsiastically if it just worked for "me". I'd suggest it, but be no doubt be more open to other methods. I have used plenty in my mercury toxic days.

The reason I recommend it so much is because of the growing number of positive reports without the horror stories I've heard by other methods....not sure what else I can do. I would feel a bit cruel by not warning about those things and just letting people go. and do what they want or see another doctor and consider that because it's a doc, he/she knows best. Sorry they don't. What doctor is highly specialised in mercury toxicity? I would like to know, I've been injured by two I went to so far who obviously didn't have a bl**dy clue how to handle mercury safely. How many screw ups by qualified doctors on DMPS IV alone? Check out the backfire cases. I was one of them. Doctor didn't want to know about that, nor did he want to know about what happened when he gave me a load of ALA and prescribed 200 mg 2-3 times a day. I was severely sick from both LONG TERM.

I doubt Andy is exaggerating or lying about the serious side effects or irreversible ones of other protocol he's seen (e.g. ALA)...? I would hope not. Certainly I have heard enough bad reports by laypeople to listen up. I don't believe they are telling tales either. Irreversible damage is a very serious claim, but I don't doubt it. I guess he's seen some horrible cases.

I can only go by what I read on these forums to get a good indication of a pretty tried tested and steady reliable protocol. I feel nervous about suggesting much else because when I have, I hear someone else's report on what happened to them or someoen they knew, and it shuts me up.

My reactions to other protocols were hell on earth, but again I don't doubt they eliminated mercury during that time, but at what cost? Terrible symptoms, flat on my back or screaming like a lunatic, ready for the mental hospital. My old father, though healthy had to nurse me many times because of this... Not overly fair on him either!

To find a protocol that at least enabled a certain amount of functioning was helpful. How effective? I am not sure, I tried anything and everything to get this stuff out of me, but I am pretty positive that his stood out as getting me well more safely and effectively. Again all combined, perhaps it was all the stuff simply eliminating more mercury.

I am just nervous about the backfire/redistribution side of things. I am dogmatic about his protocol for good reasons, not for selfish ones!

I take your point about the protocol that has worked for you and how a doctor helped you a lot with his advice and intercession and no doubt he has a track record with others also. And the fact you can chelate with amalgams already in. I'm just afraid to gamble with others on something I don't feel secure enough about.

Your protocol worked for you, so I can undersand you recommending it. Mine worked for me, so I recommend it. The adverse reports? They are the main problem for me!

I have to agree with Bex here. Cutler's protocol makes the most sense, and after six months of intensive chelation with his DMSA protocol, I am feeling much better.

I have only been harmed by doctors claiming to know how to treat mercury toxicity. Chlorella/ NAC made my gut / thyroid / adrenal issues much worse; another doctor gave me an ALA infusion (unbeknown to me - thought it was Vit C) while I still had a mouthful of amalgams, and couldn't understand why I had a severe headache, major visual disturbances and the worst gut ache I have ever had. Knowing what I do now, I think I got off lightly ...

I also used NDF and PCR3X , with a worsening of symptoms certainly with the latter.

As mercury toxicity is so individual, some or may be even quite a lot of people may get away with risky protocols. But I believe Cutler's is the one that is safest for most people, and the very sick ones. But you have to ask yourself, why take a risk with your health when you can detox safely?

My two cents... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Nicola

sregan: on a scale from 1 to10 how toxic do you feel that you are from mercury

the only reason that I ask is that someone that is only mildly toxic with mild symtoms may be able to get away with chelation with amalgams in , but someone with moderate toxic symtoms will do alot of damage in a short period of time if chelating with amalgams in

imgeha: when you say intensive chelation with dmsa what dose are you able to use.

Hi Mikey

It's not intensive from a dose point of view - I have been at 17mg DMSA every 3 hours, 4 days on 4 days off for about six months. It feels intensive because I would quite like a break, but it's like my body has got used to that pace of detox, and if I don't go on round 4 days after finishing the last round, I feel particularly horrible, and have symptoms which I know will go if I take the DMSA. So I go on round.

I hope when my body has slowed down its detox, I shall be able to take longer breaks, and get some sleep!!! I am now sleeping better than I did when I was very sick, and I hope my body is healing. There are plenty of good signs - many of my symptoms have disappeared - but I still feel hungover and fluey most of the time, obviously fatigued, and I have a permanent metal taste in my mouth which gets better on round. In the four days between rounds the metal taste gets worse that I chelate to get rid of it. It drives me crazy! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I have also started adding in ALA - I will do one day per round with ALA for a bit - and see how that goes.

Nicola

Hi Nicola, When I was mercury toxic and used the DMSA cutler style. I had good rounds and tougher rounds, but each time I seemed to be improving over time. No process of mercury chelation/detox is fast! I know, I've tried them and no matter what I did, the process was slow and my improvements were slow too. IN attempting to speed things up by over zealous chelation, you can wind up backfiring and then taking ages to recover, thus actually slowing down the healing process in the long run. I did that MANY times and it is not worth it. The body can only handle so much at a time, especially when ill and weak.

Cutler says DMSA is not essential and is only helpful with extra cellular mercury. It can help symptoms somewhat in the early stages of mercury poisoning (if taken frequently to keep enough in the blood continually), because it grabs hold of the mercury that is bothering you and if there is another back up dose, it keeps this up. So you can feel better with taking it sometimes. Other times I found it still caused plenty of detox symptoms, but not the total insane ones. I usually found that symptoms would increase the longer I was on the round and I would push it for an entire week. In hindsight, I only needed to chelate for 3 days or so, which would have made it much easier. So nearing the end of the week I would be aching, very very tired and sickly. The break helped me recover.

Either way, it's not a race and it's a slow process. Nothing can make this go much faster than what the body can handle or keep up with. Cutler does not consider it essential, but when I look back? For me? It was powerful and valuable, but horrible if not used in the way he prescribed.

hi nicola : increased my dose from 10 mg to 25 mg of both dmsa and ala and have noticed a big difference in my detox symtoms they have increased also, but are tolerable ,I just want to get this crap out of me as fast as possilble ,when you said you feel hungover and fluy , you hit the nail on the head.
I have been trying to discribe to other people how mercury poisoning feels and that is a perfect discription, one day we will be healed , but for now we will have to endure ,

DV?

Andrew Levin in his site said that you should take .425 mcg/lb of Selenium and/or (not sure which) .85 mcg/lb of MethylSelenocysteine.

I'm functional and have been able to work for the last 4 .5 years although at times it has required amazing will power to get through the day. I have a family to support and simply have no other option.

I have brain chemistry issues along with body symptoms.

Honestly I don't know if I am mercury toxic, it's just the latest theory I'm persuing.

2 types of selenium here, one type is brewers yeast caps at 200 mcg -286% DV. The other is L-Selenomethione 200mcg - 280% DV.

DV - daily value

It could be anything you know... mercury, lead, cadmium, arsenic, antimony, the rug in the office, the mold in the basement.. milk... soy products.. the ink jet printer.. chemtrails.. flouride in the water...chlorine... pesticides...

I'd keep detoxing and eat the spirulina and whatever else gives you a lift. I get hammered for it a lot but my cilantro pesto recipe is a wonderful pick me upper. Use lots of parsley or basil with the cilantro for a great pick me up cleansing vitamin A packed punch. It's in the recipe section.

Thanks for the autism links btw. I wasn't aware that the chelation has such a great effect on those kids. I gave my neighbor with an autistic girl a half dozen dmsa caps to try. She's a full 5 yrs old already and he has never done anything like that with her.

My daughter is not autistic but she uses my dmsa now and then. she likes it, feels it has helped her somewhat. She certainly is a lot less moody than she used to be. She hasn't done much either, just 2 or 3 25mg caps twice a week for maybe 3-4 weeks total over a period of a few months is all.

The Yahoo Autism-Mercury forum is probably the best and Andy Cutler is still posting on there. Lots of kids are getting helped with detox by restoring their methylation ability.