I was forwarded a link about this stuff today and it sounds pretty good! I'm incredibly sceptical about the ability of natural supplements to remove mercury from the body, but I would love to see it work. Here's two links to info on it:

http://www.webdeb.com/q-machine/heavy-metal-detox.htm

http://www.drkaslow.com/html/ndf_mier_chelating_drops.html

more testimonials here : http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/Chelation_products.html#NDF
this is a good one:

quote

Probiotics or not, NDF+ can cause a sudden mobilization of metals
in the
brain with serious effects. That may have been what happened with
me, even
though I believe it methylated mercury in my gut. I had ramped up >to 3
droppers of NDF per day and was feeling better than I had in ages
when I
accidentally picked up the wrong bottle and took 3 droppers of NDF >PLUS
instead.

Every minute of my day has been trying to stay alive since >then,
seizures, lack of coordination, muscle tremors, tunnel vision, >failing
eyesight, slurred speech, parkinsons like walk, and many other
symptoms that
have worsened in the last 6 months.
I suspect that it is the cilantro in the NDF that causes the sudden
mobilization of metals. Anyone who uses this product is taking the
risk that the cilantro will move metals INTO the brain. In fact it is
most likely that the metals will go into the brain. The consequences
can be sudden and dramatic - like Gary has reported, like I have
experienced personally - or develop slowly over time. Any amount of
lies and hype from the company does not change the fact that the
ingredients have not been researched properly and the product is not
safe for human consumption. It really bothers me when I see people
promoting this product for use with children.
Linda J
--- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Littleton" <gary@g...> wrote:

Hi Tami,

It is my understanding that NDF+ does contain live probiotics from
talking
with NDF+ developer Timothy Ray. Also the description says NDF+ contains
everything that NDF has plus "predigested drainage" which would be a
live
culture, just like the whey in yogurt would contain the probiotic
bacteria
that is digesting the yogurt. In addition the description reads that it
contains suspended probiotics.

Here is the bioray description:
----
NDF Plus is a patent pending, proven dietary supplement for the
treatment of
heavy metal and chemical toxicity. It contains NDF plus fulvic acid
complexes and concentrates of probiotic predigested drainage and support
ingredients including agaricus blazei and milk thistle.

The fulvic acid restores the electrical potential of the system and thus
allows for improved utilization of the ingredients. NDF Plus also
contains
suspended probiotics for enhanced nutritional support.
----

Probiotics or not, NDF+ can cause a sudden mobilization of metals in the
brain with serious effects. That may have been what happened with
me, even
though I believe it methylated mercury in my gut. I had ramped up to 3
droppers of NDF per day and was feeling better than I had in ages when I
accidentally picked up the wrong bottle and took 3 droppers of NDF PLUS
instead. Every minute of my day has been trying to stay alive since
then,
seizures, lack of coordination, muscle tremors, tunnel vision, failing
eyesight, slurred speech, parkinsons like walk, and many other
symptoms that
have worsened in the last 6 months.

NDF+ and NDF are very powerful, but as you indicated you need to be VERY
VERY careful. There really should be an NDF backfire site to warn people
about the possible effects, as bioray doesn't emphasize this enough.
I think
this is why they took their message boards down and also why Timothy Ray
(who had offerred to tutor me on BTM) abruptly quit answering my emails
after I starting having worse symptoms.

Cheers,
Gary

_____

From: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Tami Wilken
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 1:30 AM
To: Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Autism-Mercury] Re: Anyone How does this protocal
sound?/Melinda


Melinda,

NDF PLUS does not have live probiotics in it. The "probiotics" in
both the NDF and NDF PLUS are cell wall broken (dead). They are
there to push out the bad bacteria and prepare the gut for
recolonization with live probiotics after the initial phase of detox
is over. They do not methylate mercury. Only live probiotics do
that.

The NDF is stronger and chelates 25% more than the NDF+ does. IT is
intended more for those who have been recently exposed. It raises
the beta waves.

The NDF+ is a milder chelator. IT has added liver/kidney support
and additional fulvic acids. It is the one recommended for the more
debilitated patients with low battery focus. And also the one
recommended for those with neurological conditions like autism.
NDF+ raises the beta and theta waves.

Since everyone has a different tolerance of detox, toxic exposure,
and pH, it is suggested to start very slow. Any aggravations seen
using the NDF PLUS or NDF, if not allergy related, would be dose
related. One child may tolerate 1 drop of NDF PLUS to start while
another could tolerate 5 drops to start. Still another would need a
diluted dose (1 drop of NDF PLUS in 8 ounce glass of distilled water
starting at 1/4 teaspoon of this). Recommended dose is not due to
weight but to the response of the current dose. You want it high
enough to see good things but low enough so NO aggravations are
seen. Since the body doesn't heal as well while it's under stress,
Dr Ray states on healthydetox.org that it is important to keep the
dose where you see no aggravations.

Dr Ray states,
"Taking normal chlorella is the equivalent of
trying to get the nutritional value out of
swallowing a potato whole, compared to
chewing mashed potatoes, that are
"predigested", full of bio-available nutrients,
and beneficial for the gut and colon.
The predominant route of excretion of
heavy metals & chemicals when using
NDFT & NDF PlusT is via the urine,
decreasing the possibility of resorption
through the bowel and decreasing the
burden on the liver. NDFT & NDF PlusT
do not remove necessary and beneficial
minerals from the body as do other
chelators."

Here are the ingredients of NDF PLUS vs NDF.

NDFT Ingredients: Nanocolloidal cell wall
decimated Yaeyama Chlorella, Nanocolloidal
Organic Cilantro, 12 strains of cell wall broken
beneficial lactobacillus, 3 strains of cell wall
broken bifidobacterium, Silica, 18% grain neutral
(gluten free) spirits.

NDF PlusT Ingredients: Contains all of the
above ingredients plus, fulvic acid complexes &
concentrates of PolyFlorT predigested agaricus
blazei, ganoderma lucidum, cordyceps sinensis,
milk thistle seeds, horsetail herb, Silica, 18%
grain neutral (gluten free) spirits.

Keeping a healthy pH, like Gary said, is essential for heavy metal
detox. By addressing the liver dysfunctions and pH issues before
detoxing, there will be less aggravations (even with prescription
chelators) than trying to chelate with a acidic body and alkaline
urine. Alkaline urine means that your body is holding onto acids.
Disease, parasites, bacteria and yeast all thrive in acidic
environment and cannot survive in alkaline environments. Acids are
drained from the body through the urine, that's why the urine should
be acidic.

The first morning urine should be between 5.8-6.0 and the saliva
should be between 6.8-7.2. If it's not, Liver Life is recommended
before any heavy metal detox. Continue Liver Life until your first
morning urine pH is consistently in the appropriate range. Liver
Life is not needed if your first morning urine pH remains between
5.8-6.0 for 7 days after discontinuing the Liver LIfe. IT is
recommended to test first morning urine pH periodically (once a
week), even after stopping Liver Life to be sure it remains at a
healthy level.

My son and I have both been taking NDF+ for years. I had Myasthenia
Gravis (after removing mercury fillings) and my son, Gavin was
diagnosed with PDD-NOS at 18 months old. We have both recovered so
much thanks to many different biomedical treatments including
BioRay's NDF, NDF PLUS and Liver Life. In fact, I wasn't able to
tolerate NDF until just recently when I added in Liver Life and got
my pH to a healthy level. I could always tolerate the PLUS. My son
can now tolerate high doses of both since getting his first morning
urine pH at a healthy level as well.

I've been collecting info on the NDF and PLus for a few years now.
I can honestly say, I haven't met(online or off) anyone that has had
a negative reaction that wasn't dose related. Meaning that it
didn't go away when the dose was lowered. But I am absolutely not
saying bad reactions don't happen. I am 100% positive they do.
That is why I think it's important to start slow and figure out the
appropriate dose with your child.

I was fortunate enough to write a protocol for the use of NDF+ and
NDF for the autism community that has been pretty effective and best
of all, safe.

I don't post here much but I read often. If you need any help
figuring out the dose, I'd be more than willing to share what I
know. There is also a new yahoo group that has been made available
for anyone who wants to share their experiences or just research the
products. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/BioRaynaturaldetox

There are many parents on www.autismweb.com posting their
experiences with NDF's as well.

I do agree with Linda that the TD DMPS dosing is much more effective
(for my son) using the 3 days on 4 days off protocol. We went from
42 drops every other day to 2-3 drops every 3 hours for three days,
then four days off. It made more sense and we got less highs and
lows in regards to my son's emotions.

I hope this is helpful. ANd no matter which route you take, I hope
your sweet child recovers.

My best,
Tami W
-Gavin's mom, 7 years old
vaccine injured, recovering from
mercury induced autism through biomedical
-BioRay customer support
for the asd community


--- In Autism-Mercury@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Littleton" <gary@g...>
wrote:

I just want to back Linda up here. I know of several people, one
girl in
particular, that has been bedridden for 2 years after doing NDF+.

I have been trying to get well since last June when I accidentally
took NDF+
instead of NDF. NDF+ has live probiotics and when swallowed can
break the
cell wall of candida in the stomach and methylate it. I have gotten
progressively worse since then, pain and buring all over, loss of
coordination, tunnel vision, seizures, loss of muscle control,
etc. Only
doing the DMSA every 3-4 hours has started to turn things around,
and it's
taken 4 rounds of it (a week each) to see some improvement.

In my experience you can ONLY take NDF or NDF+ when your urine ph
is below
your saliva ph, and then you should only try NDF, and then only a
single
drop. Usually you can tell even doing a single drop the effect in
10
minutes.

If I were dead set on trying NDF+, I would not under any
circumstances
swallow it. I would just do a drop under my tongue, as that
targets the
blood first.

When I started having seizures I would try NDF+, which would stop
them for
an hour or so, and then they would come back worse. Also that
feeling of
recirculating metals that is very common (where your heart beats
hard or
erratically, and you feel waves of vibration or electricity in
your body)
NDF+ would clear for 30 minutes and then it would come back twice
as bad.

Cheers,
Gary
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/161899.html

unquote

Russian roulette... this guy likes the product too: http://www.garylittleton.org/gl/content/view/31/31/

LOL, I have been searching for a word that describes this class of product…….thats perfect.

Russian roulette.

Nice one Finn <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

IMHO, I would not use NDF or NDF+ until more is known about how and why it works! This is more of the conflicting information stuff that will be sorted out in years ahead, but for now drives all of us crazy. Why do some thrive and others crash on this?

I started with this NDF+ at my new Doctor's recommendation, carefully studied the website, and gave it a try, and as I mentioned elsewhere, it seemed to work for me. But I am not taking any more at this point, and I have a bottle or two left. Since I tried this, my doctor has now switched to promoting NCD instead.

I started Cutler's method because I thought it would be safer, but I still wonder what long term ALA and DMSA dosages might do to people. Anyone got input on that?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nogohere.gif" alt="" />
TW

Well I don't know about DMSA, but ALA appears to be safe, given that it is natural anti-oxidant. I wouldn't know if ALA caused me any damage, wouldn't be able to distinguish that damage from the bigtime mess the mercury/candida caused. I've only seen a site which claims that ALA backfired (3 x 100 mg per day) on some person who was formaldehyde (aldehyde) poisoned (after 3 days of usage). Those with diabetic neuropathy can take 600 mg ALA per day, so perhaps it is reasonably safe for most people.

Hi, I spoke with Gary LIttleton over email a couple of years back after reading his very favourable comments on NDF, and he was very happy with his progress, until he tried NDF+ (if I recall correctly)

Not sure exactly what happened but he suffered a massive backlash from the stuff and ended up almost completely debilitated. Whether too much mercury was released or what, i'm not sure. But he was in a bad way, even though he was very knowledgeable on the stuff and what to take and how to test etc.

I seem to recall he took on Andy cutler's protocol there for a while to help "clear things up", it seemed to help him. As far as I know, he would alternate between both. It's quite possible he went right back to the normal NDF again and did ok.

I never knew whatever happened to him after that. I would be cautious of NDF> I hear some RADICAL testimonies, either good or bad. I took some of it according to my dentists' instructions, which was only about 5 drops in water twice a day and by the 2nd - 3rd day, I CRASHED. I was so ill that I could barely get out of bed for 3 weeks. Everybody was very worried about me. I could barely eat, move or do anything and depression was horrific. Though I did eventually improve again and felt better than I had previously, it was a very scary thing.

DMSA andy style helped me in a more balanced way then, because I had previously released a lot of mercury from using an antifungal and NDF made the situation even worse at the time, though it may have gotten some metals out, it made me into a near invalid in the process. DMSA taken correctly - nearly corrected the situation!

Yet there have been people who have done so well on NDF, they claim cures. My dentist uses it on his mercury patients, with or without amalgams and has done so for years. Apparently one lady in a wheelchair was cured by amalgam removal and NDF detox!

So it's very tough to know what is going to be best for one person and bad for another. It's stuff that is much more potent than people realise when you have a bunch of mercury in you in already accessible areas, that NDF will easily move. So you can be taking it and think you're doing ok and then get a massive crisis (healing or backfire?).

I know of someone who was doing ok at first and then later she got so sick after it that 2 years later she's still struggling. However, again I can mention this. NDF may or may not be souly responsible for this. She may have been victim to the classic dumping stage of mercury, which happens to many people at some point following amalgam removal and can come almost out of the blue OR a detox can set the response off. So her two year debiliated symptoms may well have been from the organ dump stage.

And for me it lasted 2-3 years. I believe Andy Cutler's protocol was most helpful in speeding that up and making the symptoms during detox much easier than they were during other ones. Had I used his earlier on, I think I'd have gotten through it a lot faster!

Wow thanks for this info Bex! I think I wont touch that stuff...

Pgm: those dosages are crazy high….when I start ALA I will start on 3mg every 3 hours. That’s 42mg a day.

And another thing PGM….Bex posts above….look at that…..how much knowledge is there. Bex tried the stuff and it royally hurt her…. That knowledge should be worth its wait in gold to everyone.

Why take chances with stuff like that, when there is a perfectly good safe method of getting the mercury out?

Would you seriously try taking a product when you know that someone else, also mercury poisoned, got so seriously hurt? I quote ……

Hi Sunshine, yeah the problem with NDF, you have to be really careful with it. If anything like liver, ph is out of sync, you can easily have a backfire.....

Admittedly when I used it, I was more vulnerable because i had a previous massive release of metals from antifungal use, which may have been why NDF caused such a dramatic "detox". But I don't see why anybody should have to go through that on only a few drops, even if I was not doing everything "technically" correct, e.g. ph monitoring etc, it just seems extreme to me.

ALA is also very risky if taken the wrong way or at the wrong time. No way is that stuff safe, simply because it's a "natural" antioxidant and raises glutathione. The very fact it strongly chelates mercury and can pass the blood brain barrier, is risk in that it can redistribute mercury if used the wrong way, and can take MORE mercury INTO the brain if someone still has too high body/blood burden of mercury and uses ALA too soon.

I had a horrible experience with ALA when I used it too early after a backfire effect from using garlic. The garlic had obviously mobilised mercury into worse areas, gut included and I should have waited or used DMSA to quieten this down. But no, I used ALA and the effects were far worse.

It seems that ALA is not good to use too close after any mercury exposure, whether amalgam removal or too soon after a backfire effect. AT least for me it wasn't. I know it's good for the liver and is a powerful antioxidant, but when you're dealing with mercury? ALA can also be a risk.

DMSA too if used the wrong way, but if used correctly it's ideal in the early stages of mercury detox after recent exposure. I don't think anything that has the ability to mobilise or chelate mercury is all that safe, considering how dangerous mercury itself is, which is why I think Andy's protocol makes so much sense.

I also do not consider glutathione a "chelator", because a chelator is something that "directly" grabs mercury, has two thiol groups....gluathione may "indirectly" aid the body in excreting mercury and other metals and toxins though. But many mercury toxic people do NOT handle taking glutathione itself, or other sulfur amino acids like cysteine and methionine etc. Rather they may handle supplements that help increase glutathione in the body itself - selenium, vitamin C, milk thistle, undenatured whey protein etc. Apparently this is more effective? I wouldn't know, I have not taken glutathione in direct supplement form.

If it works for people, that's great. I have no doubts personally on the need to increase glutathione in the body when mercury toxic, considering it gets used up. But I don't believe glutathione could be classified as a chelating agent (magnet/claw for metals), but rather needed so the body itself can detox better.

Sure, Sunshine. The dosages are crazy high. Everyone knows that here. But the truth is that healthy people can stuff down incredible amounts of ALA without any problems, and I have seen that with my own eyes. I also understood that the question was about long-term effects of ALA when taken in *tolerable* amounts. I don't see a problem with that. ALA in itself doesn't appear to cause damage (given that some people can take even 600 mg of it), it's the toxins leaking out which causes the damage, if any. If you can keep them at a reasonable level there shouldn't be a problem.

If someone here doesn't like the idea of detoxing, one can choose to do nothing, but it will take a damn long time to get well in that case. Instead of one year, it can take five years or so.

You know...I am finding EVERYTHING needs to be tested. I used to read posts about the products people were taking, including ALA, chlorella, MSM, Algin, etc. And after a year wisdom has finally settled in, GO SLOW ON ANYTHING YOU CHOOSE TO PUT IN YOUR BODY.

Recently, my doctor gave me a supplement with several things in it. Many are harmless (B vitamins, Vit C) but there was also 45 mgs LA. I can take LA if it's done in small doses over the day, but one dose of 45 mgs and I thought I was going to lose my mind. So, in my mind...nothing is a "for sure thing" as far as supplementation and medication. It ALL needs to be tested for reaction.

I've stopped looking for the "silver bullet" and settled into a program of getting well. I say this, because I know I can't be the only one out there who has had their mercury symptoms drive them crazy and want relief with a big "R" and hoped to find something that would just stop the madness...but it's not one thing, it's a program that has to be tailored to each person's physical situation.

This reminds me of a supplement a dentist had me on at one point. Really good stuff, powerful but I reacted so severely to it, I coudln't understand why. Until I saw it contained ALA, though small doses, it was enugh to set off the mercury symptoms severely.

I had a high body level because of the antifungal use had released the metals from yeast. So the ALA in the supplement was probably the WRONG thing to take at that time.

Everything else in the supplement was probably mostly fine, apart from MSM, which mobilises mercury too. But it had very good ingredients, just too powerful for me and gave me agonising insane symptoms.

I had to stop taking it and was too scared to go back on it after that.

Again I had to rely on DMSA (andy style) to get the newly exposed metals back out of me in a manner that wasn't intolerable. The other stuff, though natural and "healthy", and nice small doses, was giving very nasty and frightening responses.

Ok for people who are already well and don't have a metal problem or issues with detoxing , but can be dangerous for those of us trying to eliminate metals and find we cannot excrete what's been pulled out or moved around.

Thanks so much for the replies, Sunshine, Bex, everyone. I really appreciate the feedback. I am still considering taking this supplement, but very carefully if at all. I know a lot of you are quite sensitive to ALA and cilantro but cilantro has no effect on me and ALA also seems to do little to me. I have taken megadoses of both of these before and haven't had any problems whatsoever. When I was really sick (Epstein Barr) I was under the care of Dr. Rind (drrind.com) who generally prescribes Jarrow sustained release ALA to people, 300 mg tablets. I took at least one whole bottle of that stuff, possibly more, 1 tablet per day, every day. I've also megadosed myself with cilantro for a month or two and had no ill effects whatsoever.

Again the question of "am I sure that I am mercury poisoned?" pops up, and I'm not sure, but I think I am poisoned. I am on the Andy Cutler protocol now and do feel detox symptoms after each dose I take.

-Colin

sustained release ALA does not work and is dangerous...

Colin did you get rid of your EBV virus? I have lots of it in my system... Any idea what could work?

Hi Colin, it's unusual that you don't react to the ALA and cilantro, especially taken in the ways you took them. Both will usually move mercury into the brain if not taken correctly. Andy does not recommend cilantro because it is not known how to use it appropriately in order to be safe and prevent redistribution into the brain. He does not recommend ALA taken in large/isolated amounts for the same reason or taken too soon after recent mercury exposure with high blood/tissue levels.

I know people have really been hurt by these products because of not understanding how they work and I do believe Andy has the most researched, logicl protocol I've come across. He does not recommend the sustained release ALA either, this is not something he's worked with or studied enough to be able to suggest proper use. So he recommends the regular one.

Again, not everybody wishes to follow Andy's way, and that's fine, but if an increasing number of people are ending up heading in his direction due to backlashes by other protocols, and in some cases horrific ones... it seems the wise thing to prevent that, rather than risk it happening and THEN deciding to take the more cautious approach.

One guy I know seemed to be doing ok and was having IV DMPS and was given cilantro and ALA, but it caught up with him and he was an absolute mess. Then he finds out about andy's protocol and started to use that, but it's very hard to reverse sometimes and he responded 'ok', but still had to dealt with many distressing symptoms. At least Andy's did not make it any "worse" and improved him to a point.

He wished that he had known about andy beforehand. I wish the same for myself, I think I may have prevented many of the horrible symptoms I suffered with by other means, plus no doubt would have sped up my healing! I used his in the end and it was the way through.

I know it's different for some people who may respond really well to other means and that's fine. It happens, but it seems to me that the more I'm on the net, the more people I see responding favourably to his and the more unfortunate responses to other methods! You always get the exceptions rather than the rule though.

Indeed it would be unusual if I was mercury poisoned and never had reaction to such high doses of ALA, but then again it would be perfectly normal if I am not mercury poisoned and had no reaction. When I was given this high dose of ALA (5 years ago) I was too sick to read or do much of anything so I basically did what Dr. Rind said. I had no suspicion at all that mercury was a problem at that point and didn't know who andy cutler was. I have studied his protocol quite extensively by this point and understand it well. So I'm really not sure what the problem is but I will be staying on Andy's protocol, see how it goes after a few months.

bg123: I had EBV very bad and I will tell you exatly how I got rid of it. First I took a homeopathic preparation of EBV called "Bio 88" for 3 months which took my EBV load down about maybe 40%. This was a huge improvement and I felt a lot better but I still spent most of my time in bed. Next I did a hydrogen peroxide bath (some H2O2 in a bathtub full of water). I Immediately got a lot better after the first bath but didn't improve fully on the baths. Next I tried drinking H2O2 in water, I forget how much I put in there, between 1-10 drops of 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide. The EBV was gone very shortly after that (either the 1st, 2nd or 3rd dose).

As far as treating persistent infections of any kind there are a few things that should be strongly considered, you'll need a doctor (ND) for the first two:

-Dilute hydrochloric acid ivs
http://www.arthritistrust.org/Books/Three%20Years%20of%20HCl%20Therapy.pdf
-High dose vitamin C ivs
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinical_guide_1988.htm
-Oral hydrogen peroxide in water

Read the links I posted and you will likely be very impressed with the efficacy of HCl and vitamin C.

-Colin

Did you feel much better after the EBV was gone?

Yes, it was night and day really. I did have a very bad case of EBV. I was in bed for a year and only left the house now and then for doctor appointments. I was incredibly sensitive to light and sound. The curtains in my room were always closed, I covered my eyes the majority of the time, I couldn't watch tv or listen to music or read, I wore ear plugs basically at all times and could barely sustain conversation.

After the Bio 88 I got a big energy boost but was generally still in bed most of the time. I was on cortisol and florinef for blood pressure (I needed it) and quickly stopped needing these after the H2O2. I'm healthy enough to go to university and now naturopathic college, starting January in Toronto. So I got my life back but am not 100% yet.

-Colin

Wow you were really a bad case. I am not affected that much but I had very very high EBV antibodies showing up in my blood...

I believe that besides my my metal problem i could have this bug in my CNS im not sure if that is possible but it would explain my cognitive problems and unstable moods.(My problems started years ago after i was sick for a while and had a chronic cough for a few months) the cough went away the mental symptoms not...

I heard that St.Johns wort has antiviral properties maybe that explains why it can treat depression.

Btw: Did check your immune system? Sounds like it's very weak.

I've never heard that St. John's Wort had antiviral properties, but you could be right about it. Olive leaf extract is supposed to be a good antiviral but did nothing for me.

Yeah my immune system is weak. Usually I get one cold or flu per month which sucks. This year I haven't been gettng colds or flus hardly at all, I'm not sure why but it makes life so much easier! What type of testing for my immune system did you have in mind?

Hmm it does sound like you have viral issues from your story. You should try the peroxide but don't get disapointed if it doesn't work, what we had/have sounds slighty diferent. The HCl would be good to try to.

-Colin

Just made a search on NDF and found this old thread.. I also found sad news about Gary Littleton that was mentioned here. His site says:

"I know most of you are aware, but Gary passed away on June 28, 2008 due to complications from a massive stroke that he suffered last year.
Friends and family are aware, but Gary had a huge influence on many people and I wanted to let everyone know. I have not been able to publish here before now because the hurt was still too raw. Please remember him for the amazing person he was and the love he put in the world on a daily basis."

I wonder if he was another mercury victim.

Hi Finn,

Thank you for passing this very sad news on. I corresponded with him at one stage regarding mercury and health issues and he was a great person to talk to. Very understanding, very knowledgeable and from what I recall, LONG suffering of his own illness and toxicities.

I am so sorry to hear of his passing .... I'm shocked and upset. He was a wonderful person and provided so much help and information to others.

May God bless him and give him the comfort and health he so richly deserves!