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Hi everyone. I have been sick for most of my life and I still don't know what the problem really is. I think the problem is most likely mercury or a chronic infection but I have done everything under the sun for chronic infections, including dilute HCl ivs lately, with no improvement at all. For that reason I'm starting to lean back towards the possibility of mercury.
My symptoms are almost exactly the same as how Russ described his symptoms when he was toxic. I also find there is a lot of parallels between my symptoms and the symptoms of autism.
I bought a DMSA challenge test from a naturopath but once I read what Andy Cutler had to say about them I decided to get my money back. So I got some DMSA and ALA and started the protocol 24 hours ago. I don't know how many consecutive days I will stay "on" for (maybe just 3) but so far I feel no ill effects whatsoever. I have been taking 25mg DMSA every four hours and 25 mg ALA every three hours (every four hours at night). I'm not even sure that I am mercury poisoned but I will give updates as I go.
-Colin
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Good luck Colin <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headdancer.gif" alt="" />
Keep us posted on how you doing.
Did u know you can dose every 3 hour on DMSA too. So that the ALA and the DMSA can be taken at the same times. Should make for an easier scheduling life.
I have just changed to every 3 hours with 6mg DMSA. 12.5mg was too high for me.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Hey Sunshine. I haven't heard about being able to dose DMSA every 3 hours, interesting. Has Andy ever mentioned this?
Only 6 mg DMSA, wow! That is a small amount of powder haha. Good luck!
-Colin
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I just finished a round with 10 mg dmsa and 10 mg ala every 3 hrs and at night and did very well on the low dose ,I feel like I cleared out alot of the mercury that the msm I took last month had stirred up redistributed
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how do u guys get such low doses, especially ala??
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hey jinx : the ala that I buy comes in 100 mg capsules , I just open the capsule and pour out about 10 mg and the same with the dmsa , I buy empty gelatin capsules and put the small amount of both of them in the empty capsules so there ready to take when I need them you'll have to eyeball it , but it is not very much at all
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I also have 100mg ala but it's impossible to divide them into EVEN 10 parts... ho do u do this?
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are they capsules or tablets ?
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Yeah Colin, get over to Yahoo Frequent dose chelation group. If you are starting chelation 100pct you should join that group. They have a world of experience and you can only benefit from seeing the daily posts. It is specifically for andy cutler protocol followers. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/Info is listed here http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/Andy_dose_sched.html#frequency
Dose frequency:
• DMSA: every 4 hours,including at night
• ALA: every 3 hours, including at night. (You can stretch it to every 4 hours at night if it helps you get a little more sleep, but go back to every 3 hours during the day.)
• DMSA + ALA (together): same as ALA, every 3 hours, including at night. (You can stretch it to every 4 hours at night if it helps you get a little more sleep, but go back to every 3 hours during the day.)
• DMPS: every 8 hours
• DMPS + ALA (together): same as ALA, every 3 hours, including at night. (You can stretch it to every 4 hours at night if it helps you get a little more sleep, but go back to every 3 hours during the day.). Use 1/2 as much DMPS per dose.
• It is generally okay to take a dose SOONER, if this is more convenient. For instance, it is fine to take the next dose of ALA after 2.5 hours rather than 3. If you do this, be sure to adjust the time of the next following dose so that it is taken within 3 hours. (Don't accidentally leave it till 3.5 hours later because of the "early" dose). All dose guidelines are about the LONGEST you can go between doses. Shorter is okay.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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To divide the capsules I slip in to drug dealer mode. Mirror, credit card & chop up some lines. Oh yeah! It’s easy to do, takes me 20-25 mins to prepare my whole rounds worth. I really do use a mirror and credit card and I really do chop up some lines. LOL Its not impossible to do, just divide the stash into equal lots. Half it. Half it again. half it again and again. I use post-it notes folded down the middle (without the sticky back) http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_buy_DMSA.htmlhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/87882 MaryW -- divide up powder on a plate, with a spatula, put in gelcaps http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/86964 MaryW -- divide up powder, then put into paper cups with top folded over http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/95123 MaryW -- dividing doses on a plate, post-it notes to pick up piles http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/91950 Jennifer -- dividing a capsule by using pieces of paper, put into capsules; then mix into a LITTLE honey water
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Cool. I actually have been a member of that group and the autism-mercury group for a year now. I studied both groups extensively in the past but haven't looked at either for a while because I have been focusing on chronic infections. My focus is back on mercury now so I am finally trying this great protocol. Oh yeah I have studied Moriam's website pretty extensively, what a fantastic thing thing she has done compiling all of Andy's info. Andy is wonderful for all he has done, to say the least.
I get my DMSA in 250 mg capsules (at $1.00 per pill) and split it into 10 even piles of powder as best I can and encapsulate them individually. It might not be exact but $1.00 for 250 mg is so cheap!
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sounds like sunshine p and I load our capsules the same way , I 'll empty a capsule on a clean and dry surface then divide it into 10 equal parts , then load one of the divided parts into a empty gel capsule , then now you'll know how much to load each capsule every time for your next round , I mix both ala and dmsa in to the same capsule , which makes it easier to just take one capsule instead of two
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Round One:
I finished my first round of 4.5 days on 25 mg DMSA and 25 mg ALA every 3 hours. Overall I had minimal negative detoxing symptoms but it did feel like something was happening. I'll have to dig up my doctor's data hair test from a few years back to get it interpreted. I'm not sure that I am poisoned but I reeeealy think I am.
-Colin
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Congratulations Colin.
Did you get any strange symptoms when you finished? Any redistribution?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Thanks, Sunshine. I did not get any strange symptoms at all when I stopped. I didn't get any strange symptoms during the round either. I did notice slight worsening of my usual symptoms: very tired after eating, sensitivity to light, fatigue, anxiety. I noticed this at the end of the round but moreso after each dose.
Man I hope this works. I'm moving to Toronto in 3 weeks and I'd like to have my best foot forward.
-Colin
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Round Two:
My second round was 5.5 days long and I have maintained the dose of 25 mg of both DMSA and ALA, every 3 hours. This round was easier to take than the first one but by the end of the 5th day I was getting some stronger negative symptoms.
Within 5 hours of ending the round I started feeling good and I had a good sleep. I felt good the next day, I had more focus while driving but I started getting a cold. So I have a fairly bad cold now.
I went to see my naturopath yesterday and DMSA and ALA both vega tested good. Other things that tested good were isocort (adrenal support), and two homeopathic drainage remedies (R7 and R18 by Dr. Reckeweg). My naturopath says these drainage remedies are conductors, not binders, that is, they point the mercury in the right direction once it is mobilized.
Merry Christmas everyone
-Colin
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hi colin: just started my 5th round on 10 mg of ala and dmsa , had to wait 9 days in between to recover from a sinus infection that I got after my last round , and started to get an increase of symtoms 3 days after my last round , but is starting to clear up after my third dose , let us know how the drainage therapy is going ,sound interesting. according to the dosing chart that sunshine p. had posted earlier , I should be taking 21 mg of both ala and dmsa that is on the low end , but my body still can't handle that much yet.
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Good round Colin.
I’m taking a break from rounds whilst I parasite cleanse.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Round Three:
Well this was a long round I stretched it to be about 7.5 days. Same doses as mentioned earlier, 25/25. The round went alright. I was feeling exhausted and quite terrible yesterday (day after ending round) since I have been sleeping very little and have just moved to Toronto. I had quite a nice night last night though, and today I feel pretty good.
Oh yes, quite big news: I moved to Toronto to the Canadian College of Naturopathic Medicine (living in residence). There is some really cool people here! I'm excited to start class on monday. Woot! I'll keep the updates comming.
-Colin
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a good way of seperating the dmsa or ala is with a razor blade, i look and feel like a druggy when im doing it, lol. i put the contents into empty gelatine caps, large ones, with a small stevia spoon. it will take me an hour to do 3 days worth.
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Hi Colin Cool round. I assume you feel better on rounds which is why it was so long? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rvtime.gif" alt="" />
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Sunshine, I don't neccessarily think that I feel better on rounds. I have been muscle testing myself for an optimum schedule and I do what the testing says. Yesterday was another good day for me, I felt quite good for an extended period of time. I've definitely noticed feeling better on comming off rounds <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It was nice this time.
I have never tried a razor blade, Dawn, I usually just use a good knife. People seem to like the razor blades though. I might do that some time.
-Colin
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I get a lot of muscle testing done to test things out, and I can do it on my own too. How do you go about muscle testing yourself for an optimum schedule? That sounds really interesting.
I don’t use a razor blade, I use my credit card LOL
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Its quite simple really. I just asked, "5 days on?" and got a no (weak muscle); asked "6 days on?", got a no; I got a yes on "8 days on" but had to stop my third round early because I thought I missed a dose.
In all honesty my testing conflicts with Andy Cutler's reccommendation of at least as many days off as on. This past round I did 7.5 days on and 3.5 days off. I don't reccommend other people do this but it seems to work for me. My situation is different than a lot of yours I think, I blame vaccinations for my major source of mercury exposure, not amalgams and that was a long time ago.
I think the homeopathic drainage remedies I am on are a big help in detoxing, they tested incredibly well when my naturopath vega tested them. Seriously check them out.
-Colin
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Cool, that’s really interesting that. So it was as simple as asking those questions? Or did you ask on each individual day if you needed more days?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Yeah, I asked the question before I started and then tested again each day as the round went on to make sure nothing had changed. I'm pretty comfortable with testing myself and I know when I get a good answer (sometimes they are unclear). Don't do what your testing says if you are unsure about it, testing isn't always right. A blend of cautiousness, common sense, your own testing and others testing on you can get you to an optimum schedule <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
-Colin
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I have only really muscle tested on physical things. I have once tested my “thoughts” and it worked, but I have not done much of that. I thought of an Egg and it made me weak. On my next round I will try some stuff out see what happens. Thanks
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Round Four:
I planned on going 8 days on this round but I had to go on a trip for school and had no empty capsules left so ended early at 5.5 days. Since that time I took a 6 day break and started round 5 yesterday. During my break time I didn't notice much which was a bit disapointing but I had one nice night, I was out and I was feeling good.
Tonight I was not feeling to good so I'll have to see where it goes. Thanks for the encouragement, sunshine.
-Colin
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I talked to my muscle tester and he didn’t think muscle testing our “thoughts” was accurate.
He did not think that we would evolve so that our thoughts affected our physical being so much. Emotions…yes. But thinking of an egg and muscle testing he said was not accurate. I must say, after your above post, I did a load of muscle testing on my thoughts and they where all affected. Was quite surreal really. Personally, although I do a lot of muscle testing, I take it all with a pinch of salt. It is only a signal, or a sign post to guide me. I have been hurt by a muscle tester that got it wrong.
Thanks for keeping me posted on yr rounds, I find it very interesting. What dosages are you at?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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I remember I had some kind of testing frm two different people (same method) in two different health food shops...I think it was a pengulim or something (I wouldn't do that these days).
Both told me completely different things. One said "you're ok with echinacea" the other said "you are not ok with echinacea"......so in the end you wonder if you should go around testing THEM to find out which one is accurate...
I"ve been tested on the same machine (bio com) by different people telling me different answers....i've been tested on different machines all saying different things. It got very confusing for me to say the least.
In the end, I got sick and tired of it (literally).
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Round Five:
Sorry for not responding earlier, my computer was in trouble. The dose I am still at is 25 mg ALA and 25 mg DMSA every three hours. I just finished round five, 7.5 days, at this same dose. I don't feel any better or worse and am seriously questioning whether mercury is a problem or not.
I don't plan on stopping chelation but I do plan on looking elsewhere for answers, namely the clinic on my campus where the fourth year naturopathic interns practice. One of my friends on residence said her intern took her case homeopathically.... she analyzed her symptoms for like 4 months (several appointments) before prescribing a remedy! My friend said the remedy had a profound effect on her! So I'm going to ask for that same intern and see how it goes.
School is going well, I love my classes!
-Colin
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HI Colin, if you are not noticing anything after this, I too would question mercury. However, you haven't been doing it for too long, so again maybe you're a slow responder...
Have you considered trying a challenge test dose? E.g. ramping it right up? Sometimes the side effects from such a test can be diagnostic in itself. Andy mentions that in his book.
It's over 100 mg of each every 3-4 hours....also another thing. Since your amalgams were removed, has their been any natural worsening or improvement (without chelation)?
Because often people go through a dumping stage and it can hit sometimes 6 months or more after amalgam removal. I got mine about a year and a bit later. Before that, I had a sort of remission of my illness. But it when my body decided to start dumping the storage, I REALLY felt poisoned.
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I haven't been doing it too long but I think I certainly should be noticing a difference after 5 fairly long rounds at a higher dose (25/25). I am prepared to take the time that is required to heal but I need to be sure I am on the correct treatment. Like I said, I will keep chelating for a few months and I'll probably up my dose sometime in the near future.
My amalgams fell out with my baby teeth 15 years ago or so, I always assumed I got mercury mostly from my vaccinations. I'm going to try the homeopathic route and see what happens. Thanks for the interest and help.
-Colin
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Hi Colin, yes I would think you would have noticed something by now too. Seems a bit strange to me...if/when you try a higher dose, it'll be interesting to see if there are any reactions.
Perhaps the homeopathic route is the way to go. Have you considered candida in all this? I know it's repeated on here alot, but it sure causes its own load of symptoms that are distressing.
I treat mine and have to everyday. Tests are dubious, I don't trust any candida test. Too many false negatives - similar to mercury. Trial by diet is the best way to test in my opinion (plus checking a candida symptom list).
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Update:
I upped my dose to 125mg DMSA and 125 mg ALA every 3 hours and I've been on this dose for 48 hours... no worsening or improving of symptoms. I plan on finishing off the rest of my DMSA at this dose, it should last for 5 more days. Hmmmmmmmmm! I don't know what else to say.
-Colin
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Colin: Dude - 125mg each? For 7 days straight? Cutler brings up on page 89 of "AI" that high doses could be used under ideal conditions, 200-400 mg DMSA every 4 hours, but you know some people here use as low as 6 mg? (I went back up the thread and see Sunshine posted he is using that amount.) I sometimes thought of going higher, but never made it over 25mg DMSA and 50 mg ALA. Please just let us know if you like turn into a werewolf or something! You know, if you start getting strange urges to bark at a full moon.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Please just try to be safe, and let us know how it goes! TW
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Hi Colin, well nobody can say you haven't given it a very good go and it does not seem likely that mercury is involved....unless the pills you're taking are duds. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> which I cannot imagine they are. Do you get any effects when using any sulfur supplements? E.g. garlic? MSM etc. Have you thought of trying cilantro? Have you treated candida? (can cause many symptoms confused with mercury)... Otherwise, I'm mystified.
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Oh yeah I've tried cilatro and it didn't do much of anything. I was doing clay baths for a few months and eating copius amounts of cilantro, eating it like it was lettuce and nothing happened. I am really thinking at this point that mercury is not a problem. I have zero resonse to garlic and MSM. I eat garlic all of the time and lots of it (I can feel that it is good for me).
I have tried treating candida and had zero response. To me it seems that Candida is not a problem, I don't think I have the symptoms.
I know that 125 mg ALA/DMSA every 3 hours is a very high dose and yet no symptoms. I think this mercury issue can almost be put to rest. I'll finish off the round though. Thanks for the input guys.
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Hi Colin, this is very mysterious. Do you mind stating what symptoms you suffer again? Something is so odd about this and no it probably is not mercury. You'd definitely get "something" to those products and surely by now. Especially at the high dosage.
I really hope it can be discovered. Whatever is amiss.
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I upped my dose to 125mg DMSA and 125 mg ALA every 3 hours and I've been on this dose for 48 hours... no worsening or improving of symptoms. ummmmmmmmmm! yes. that would suggest mercury is not your problem. which is good news. i guess its also bad news 'cause its back to the drawing board <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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that high dose of dmsa and ala would put me in the hospital within a few days , I would say that if you don't feel any difference within a week or two after you finish your round , mercury may have to be ruled out , is there any way to get a urine mercury test while you are on such a high dose , most hospitals and clinics can do this , ala will increase urine mercury levels if there is any in your system to pull out
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that high dose of dmsa and ala would put me in the hospital yup me too, i start round 6 tonight. 6mg every 3 hours
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Just thought I would let you guys know I finished off the rest of my DMSA at the dose of 250 mg DMSA and 250 mg ALA every 3 hours. I took about two days to finish off the DMSA. My urine smelled badly which was caused by the DMSA I think, it smelled DMSA-like.
So yeah mercury totally ruled out. I had absolutely zero detox symptoms. I'm doing the homeopathy thing now so I'll let you guys know if it helps. Peace.
-Colin
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