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Hello. I have had severe burning/prickling/stinging skin for a year now. I am not sure if it is caused by my chronic Lyme or mercury (my ND is convinced that I dont have a mercury problem though; I have 5 amalgams). Anyway, yesterday I ate a fried egg (I dont usually eat eggs) and boom, all the prickling and burning became 10 x worse! I remember that eggs have sulfur in it and might mobilize mercury... Could this prove that the problem be mercury after all? Anybody else have this kind of reaction?
Thanks
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Yes, I have had this with mercury. Sulfur would bring it on worse, so it sounds like you might be experiencing this. Often changes in temperature would be enough to stir it up as well and even my ears would itch, go hot and red. Could happen after taking selenium, eating sulfur foods, going from a heated room to outside in the cooler air.
I no longer get this, but did when I had a lot of mercury in me. But more than that, I used to get rashes over my entire body from mercury trying to escape via the skin. Itching, burning, tingling, the whole deal. This happened after amalgam removal because I still had a lot of stored mercury and I believe my body was making an attempt to eliminate it.
I also used to get burning on the soles of my feet when I had amalgams. and some itching when I would have a bath. I also had strange symptoms when I would drink hot fluids, which increased the uptake of vapor from my fillings. Giggling, hyper, wheezing in the lungs, etc.
Got the same when taking a bath.....so mercury can do some very strange stuff when it gets stirred up or "heated". It takes heat to make mercury rise, which made all the sense as to why it would rise up onto the skin if I would heat up.
It's usually known as the mercury rash. Mine mostly occured after I was given a DMPS IV injection, which basically just pushed a huge load of stored mercury everywhere and from then on caused the most unbelieveable extensive rashes, that occured upon bathing or exercising or taking anything to stimulate metal chelation. I would be covered literally from head to feet, face, ears, hands, feet, etc etc. Had to be seen to be believed. I would often be so deformed from this, I had to wait till it settled before I could go outside. Sometimes more of the rash would come up later though, so I never knew which way things would go. It was like heating up from bath would bring it up, cooling down would stimulate it further, and I would have to wait until everything became settled and even again.
It is a very volatile and weird metal.
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Hi Finn, yeah I get this horrid tingly, prickly stuff eating eggs and any sulphur foods too. I did avoid all sulphur foods for a week, then ate a load of sulphur foods, this made me sick as a dog and multiplied the tingly stuff 10-fold. I now avoid all sulphur foods and that helps a lot.
Vit B12 helped….worth trying that.
I also associate this sensations with my parasites/bacteria too, as it did go “crazy” when I did a parasite cleanse.
I get it most days…its buzzing away right now
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Thanks for your thoughts. Sunshine, could you tell which sulfur foods do you avoid? I guess there is sulfur in quite many foods. But I definitely have to try this because my tingling burning etc always gets worse after eating.
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hi finn , I have been able to start eating eggs again with in the last month with out having any problems , not always the case , when I tried eating eggs about this time last year my symtoms would get worse within 4 to 6 hours after eating them ,and I still had 9 amalgams back then , so any sulfur foods will mobilize mercury adding to the already high levels in your system and make you feel worse , I am able to eat sulfur foods again with out any problems now ,so once your amalgams a removed and you detox you will be able to eat sulfur foods again , I strongly recommend getting those amalgams replaced ,the sooner you get them replaced the sooner you will beable to get on with your life again
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I was advised to eat lots of eggs, to build me up! So I used to eat two or three eggs every morning. Took a while to figure out that was what was causing a flare up of these nasty symptoms. I carried this list around in my pocket for a couple of months. stick the list into a word doc and sort into alphabetical order makes life simple. From the horses mouth, Andy Cutler : “Mostly sulfury foods, a few supps. Supps: NAC, MSM, cysteine, cystine, garlic, onion, turmeric/curcumin. Foods: the spice turmeric (yellow in curry) and artichokes, jerusalem but not french asparagus bean curd tofu milk bean sprouts beans of all sorts bok choy broccoli brussels sprouts cabbage carob cauliflower cheese of all sorts chives chocolate coffee collard greens cream daikon eggs garlic green beans horseradish jicama kale leeks lentils of all sorts milk from any animal miso soup onions papaya (slightly) peas pineapple (slightly) radishes rutabaga sauerkraut sour cream soy cheese soy milk spinach split peas tempeh Tofu turnip greens whey yeast extract” taken from here http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/19354
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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If you do challenge yourself, by excluding then reintroducing sulphur foods…take it easy with the reintroduction. I don’t know if u a member of that group / link I posted, but that’s what happened to me. Re-reading it now….brings it all back. I suppose it would be funny if it didn’t happen to me.
I also get this horrid tingly stuff when I eat pumpkin seeds and or coconut oil. These are very antiparasitic foods, so I think MY symptoms are also parasite related. Stirs them up good.
Worth try Vit B12 too, that did help
let me know how it pans out.....
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Yeah thanks.. yes I'm a member on that forum.
I am going to try vit b shots very soon.. did you ever try those or did you just take b12 in pill form?
Btw, I was just reading your thread about your hair test results, very interesting. I got my results too and according to them I am not mercury toxic but... I'm not so convinced...
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Dear Finn, its such a trial and error thing isnt it. When I first became ill I could eat something and get the most terrible reactions from it, rashes, vomiting, all kinds of things, then I could eat the same the the next day and feel fine. My Mercury hair test showed up as 0 so Im still not sure this is my problem. Certainly if your not absorbing vitamin B12 this can cause many physical and mental symptoms, including allergies. This is why Ive decided to start from scratch and look into everything. Ive been lucky so far in finding out that I dont absorb B12 and will have to have shots for the rest of my life. My GP is doing a Candida test and many others and I have an appointment with Dr Peatfield soon to sort out my thyroid and Adrenal stuff. Best of luck Tracy x PS if you are someone who dosent absorb B12, this can be genetic and taking it orally wont work.
Last edited by tracy; 11/15/07 10:24 AM.
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Hi Tracy, how did you find out that you dont absorb b12? I have tried taking it orally (3 mg sublingual methylcobalamine) in the past but havent noticed anything.
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As far as I know, even those with pernicious anemia absorb some B12, if taken orally in amounts of 1 mg or more per day. If your B12 levels are very low however, the preferred way is to initially boost up the levels with shots and then take orally high B12 doses to maintain the level. The preferred form of B12 is methylcobalamin as it can be more easily utilized than cyanocobalamin by the body (less conversion involved).
You can see how much your body is able to use B12 by having a bloodtest. The blood test doesn't actually tell you however, what is the status in your brains, and what its impact is on e.g. the thyroid hormones. For some people like me, B12 had a really powerful effect on the mood and the thyroid, despite the blood levels were "normal". This means that blood tests are useful only for telling extreme cases, and to see if you absorb well B12, but not much else.
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Hi Finn you need to get a blood test done. I got mine at my GPs, they picked it up two years ago, and for a start I got a shot weekly, eventually I think it goes to monthly. I started to feel much better. I think I remember you saying you had been diagnosed with CFS, which was my original diagnosis. Because we changed practices, they didnt organise them again. Now we seem to be at a really good practice. As I said it can be an inherited thing that you dont absorb B12 cos you have something missing called the Intrinsic factor or it can be caused by a Thyroid condition. My GP is checking both these out for me. If you go onto a site about B12 or Pernicious Anaemia or Thyroid, you'll see the horrific physical and mental symptoms they can cause. Im just working through my body bit by bit at the moment and trying to fit the bits together. But your GP can definately do a blood test for you. I just think ok I still dont know the root cause for sure yet, but if I find something is wrong and I work on that and it makes me feel better. Thats the way Im going, then if I still need to chelate it should be easier, but maybe not necessary. Good luck mate Love Tracy xxxxx ps If you have the Itrinsic factor missing you will never absorb it orally, it's not possible without this.
Last edited by tracy; 11/15/07 11:46 AM.
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No shots, I take pills.
Yes, my hair test results which bit? The recent bit when I question the deranged mineral transport because of the salt? I think I do in fact have deranged mineral transport, even though I do not meet the counting rules. It doesn’t really matter to me because my mercury was high in any case @ 4.1 in the red. My first round of dmsa has confirmed I am toxic anyway.
Or maybe the copper high reading and the muscle test negative result? Strange stuff.....I have ordered another hair test to check for the copper because I have two opposing results. That is important for my diet.
Did you read cutlers hair test book? Hardcore but very interesting if u can get into it. I learned a lot.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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....I carried this list around in my pocket for a couple of months. stick the list into a word doc and sort into alphabetical order makes life simple.
From the horses mouth, Andy Cutler :
“Mostly sulfury foods, a few supps.
Supps: NAC, MSM, cysteine, cystine, garlic, onion, turmeric/curcumin.
Foods:
the spice turmeric (yellow in curry) and
artichokes, jerusalem but not french
asparagus
bean curd
tofu
milk
bean sprouts... etc
Wow that is quite a list. Aside from the tofu, soy, coffee and yeast extract, that list makes up the main of my diet, with the exception of chicken, beef and lamb. Except I don't see mushrooms and potato chips on there. On that list are some of the most often recommended foods for optimal health, like cabbage, artichokes, tumeric, lentils, greens, broccoli... foods that are known to be the best for helping keep your immune system in good shape and even your body cancer free. If you avoid all greens, spinach, kale, collards... your health will suffer. Most sincerely I don't think it's wise to avoid all those foods on an ongoing basis. I do think it is more than likely a parasite problem, and parasites, according to some, do contribute to cancers and ill health. Sauerkraut... nothing is better for your stomach than raw sauerkraut but most of the packaged stuff is already cooked... It could also be as simple as not using bleach in your laundry. I get rashes from bleach, and it's not a mercury reaction, even babies get rashes from diapers and clothes washed in bleach. Don't use bleach. Use any oxy whitener or borax, or baking soda. Or H2O2. But I doubt it's the foods. You might get a burning prickly or itchy sensation if it kills parasites because the parasites release toxins as they die. A good reason to eat more of certain foods, not less. Eating papaya seeds is an easy way to help eliminate parasites.
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Yes, its a bugger really not being able to eat normal healthy food. Now you know why I keep complaining about these bloody diets and how difficult they are, I can’t eat anything! Was no wonder I was sick all the time! I thought I was eating well, and I was, but my body was not able to cope with these sulphur foods and they screwed me up.
Most of the common foods I ate, like cabbage, leeks, beans, eggs, lentils all made me sick, some made me sicker than others, but its so difficult to tell whats making me sick when u was sick all the time. I muscle tested weak to loads of them. I did the exclusion test, then eat a load of them and was really ill. So I’m taking a break from them ALL.
IMHO when my body dislikes something it’s best to give it a complete break from them. Then later reintroduce them and see what happens. I excluded wheat and soya and nightshades like this, gave my body a complete break, and when I did come back to them, body accepted them no problem. 6 months for them. I will do the same with sulphur foods too. I am supplementing taurine to try and sort this problem out.
I definitely feel better now I exclude sulphur foods.
Yes I’m doing a parasite cleanse mid December, anyone fancy doing one with me?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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It's understandable.
My grandfather used to grow lots and lots of cucumbers when i was a kid. I was about 10 when I helped him pick them all one summer, I ate tons of cucumbers that day, that was allowed, eat as you go...
but anyway i couldn't eat cucumbers for close to 20 years after that, really, they made me so sick.. Cucumber overload.
i can eat them again, love 'em even.
It is a good idea to forget the (chlorine) bleach though.
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Hi Finn I can eat the sulfer foods all except eggs. They kill me, itching, tingleing and they tear my stomach up bad. The rest I do ok with and have had no problems. I can't do some of the nightshades. Potatoes are ok but tomatoes and peppers are off limits. I stayed away from potatoes for 6 years because I hurt every time I touched them. I did not do as well with the tomatoes and peppers. I thought I had a problem with those too at that time but stayed away from them for awhile and seemed ok. I live around the border towns and so chips and salsa are an every day word around here and I love all mexican food...miss it so badly. I can also do cilantro too. Also, the parasites will cause some of the itching and tingling. I also get stomach cramps when they start getting out of hand again. With each cleanse the symptoms have stayed away longer so I must be putting a dent in them. My nd told me they will make little cysts in the body and later after the cleanse these will hatch and well a whole new batch so you have to keep hitting them. I have been doing them every 3 months and seems to be working good. Fixing to start the next one in december....such fun!!! Rachel <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waitingtogo.gif" alt="" />
A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.
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Hi Finn I can eat the sulfer foods all except eggs. They kill me, itching, tingleing and they tear my stomach up bad. The rest I do ok with and have had no problems. I can't do some of the nightshades. Potatoes are ok but tomatoes and peppers are off limits. I stayed away from potatoes for 6 years because I hurt every time I touched them. I did not do as well with the tomatoes and peppers. I thought I had a problem with those too at that time but stayed away from them for awhile and seemed ok. I live around the border towns and so chips and salsa are an every day word around here and I love all mexican food...miss it so badly. I can also do cilantro too. Also, the parasites will cause some of the itching and tingling. I also get stomach cramps when they start getting out of hand again. With each cleanse the symptoms have stayed away longer so I must be putting a dent in them. My nd told me they will make little cysts in the body and later after the cleanse these will hatch and well a whole new batch so you have to keep hitting them. I have been doing them every 3 months and seems to be working good. Fixing to start the next one in december....such fun!!! Rachel <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waitingtogo.gif" alt="" /> Thats interesting, it seems that eggs are really the worst in my case too.. btw what kind of parasite cleanse do you do?
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Sunshine, I was reading your long analysis of your hair test results. A bit older post that one. I also had very high copper btw which is strange because 6 months ago it was as high and after that I have been taking a lot of zinc to get the copper down...
My mercury was really low in the test and I didnt meet any of the counting rules (but it was quite close)..
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Parasite cleanse. I have done one from here www.humaworm.comI had fantastic results and I will do another at the earliest possible moment, which is 3 months after my parasite cleanse, which is 15th December. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/quickdraw.gif" alt="" />
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Re hair test…….. I have some more questions regarding my hair test results, as I have conflicting(opposite) results regarding copper toxicity. I am hair test number 112 – 38 8yrs Male London, UK ----------------------- my count result Counting rule #1 10 Counting rule #2 13 Counting rule #3 3 Counting rule #4 13 Counting rule #5 this rule is not met I do NOT meet the counting rules. However: Rule 3. I score 3 here; this is regarded as "unusual" (page 26) Rule 4. I score 13 here; this is regarded as "unusual" (page 26) If two or more are unusual then the level of suspicion can be bumped up one level to "Suspicious" So……………….my results do not meet the counting rules, but they are "suspicious" My mercury was in the red @ 4.1 My copper was in the red @ 59 Since my test does not meet the counting rules I have assumed that I "probably" have normal mineral transport, therefore I need to address Copper toxic problem. So …. I have been talking zinc…about 100mg per day for about 3-4 weeks now. Today, I have just had all my supplements muscle tested. I am taking about 10-15 different things. (I know not everyone believes in muscle testing, but I am happy to use this tool. I realise it is not foolproof by any means, especially with mercury issues.) When the zinc was tested it showed that I did not need it. It was not harmful, but my body did not react like it needed it, nor would benefit from having it. So I stopped the muscle tester and we did a load more tests, because that should not happen. I should have reacted like I needed it, which is how I reacted to the muscle testing for….B12, magnesium, vit C, betaine, Vit E, taurine, chromium, Vit B, Boron, VIt D, kelp and CoQ10. So we tested different types of zinc, Orotate, gluconate and biofood. The result was the same….no positive reaction. My body does not need it. I explained the reason for taking it was because the hair test came up copper toxic. So next…..we tested copper, both in the form of Orotate and gluconate. And the result was that my body reacted positive to it, i.e that I was deficient in copper and that I needed to supplement copper. So now…….i have two tests, 1) hair test and 2) muscle test…..showing opposite results. Ummmmm? Next…….back to my "suspicious" hair test. My iodine is very very close to low red. But it is not in the red. If that was in the red, then my hair test would have met the counting rules. I would have assumed that the high copper was not correct as I have deranged mineral transport. Next…….Iodine. I had been supplementing Himalayan rock salt for 8 months at the time of the hair test. I have been doing The Watercure. 1 small teaspoon every day, for 8 months. I did ask here at the time if this could affect my iodine count on the hair test but no one knew. I have been reading all about adrenals & thyroids recently and have noticed repeated references to supplementing Himalayan rock salt for the iodine it contains. Do you see what I'm thinking? I'm thinking my supplementing of the salt has increased my iodine, which has made my hair test look like it has normal mineral transport when in fact….i have deranged mineral transport and I am not copper toxic. Phew! What do u think? http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/20375 ------- if u follow the link u can see the replies. anyway.............i have ordered another hair test...will be interesting to see whats changed.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Well i guess I am special, but I'm not bothered by sulfury foods at all. Infact, I love them. I also like garlic but it gives massive die-off.. of something, probably candida. Is there anyone here who can't tolerate sulfury foods, but garlic is no problem? Nearly every other supplement recommended here gives die-off for me. I don't really know what to do other than to wait. Electromagnetic fields also give die-off. Has lasted for soon a year, and I'm also getting fed up of this all.
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Here we go again.. decided to try some NAC and it had the same effect as the eggs... any experiences with it?
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Hi Finn,
I am taking the N.A.C. ,3 capsules a day, along with some lymphomyosot which are homeopathic drops to stimulate lymph system.
I have been taking these every day since March 2006,(so for 1 and half years when my 8 fillings still in.)
My health begin to improve dramatically back in march 06
when I started these maybe I shifted or got rid of some metal, I enjoyed a few good health months
with almost consistant energy.(but never 100%)
Then I got sick &tired again and went through the process of having the fillings replaced.
There was alot of negative reports on here about N.A.C.
I was doubting it too,and am still not sure about any of the protocols but I'm keeping on with the supplements from my natural doctor at the moment and doing research meanwhile,waiting for hairtest results to see what's going on with the metals.
I think I do feel better when I am taking the N.A.C.
If you do a search for the word NAC you'll probably find a few posts.
Hope this helps in some way.
I forgot to mention I switched from NAC to Liposomal Glutithione for about a week or maybe 2,but I don't think it agreed with me,I did not feel well at all.Unless this was a coincidence and at the same time something else making me ill..who knows.
I switched back to N.A.C. it seems to suit me ok.
Although the natural medicine doctor recommended I now take both NAC & Glutithione which I have not done &am not sure about.
sunflower
Last edited by sunflower; 12/12/07 06:49 PM.
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Finn: NAC increases glutathione, as do sulfur foods. The result is something, usually not so pleasant. Well you know glutathione, it detoxes mercury by binding to it among other things or so it is said on most websites about glutathione and mercury. Therefore when you are exposed to mercury, your glutathione is used up.
Sunflower: please tell more about that liposomal glutathione, how sick did you get? It's actually a good indication that it works, and more importantly that it absorbs into cells. Hopefully you know what you take, so that your liposomal glutathione also doesnt contain ALA.
Liposomal glutathione is a cellular level detox agent, btw, the only thing you need to have is a working liver & kidneys and your cells, and it will find your cells, goes in them and detoxes them. No conversions in body in-between is required.
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Hi Sunflower. How are you with Sulphur foods? NAC contains Cysteine. Cysteine is a sulphur food. I cannot handle sulphur foods and that includes cysteine.
NAC contains cysteine which is one of the amino acid building blocks
needed to make glutathione. Glutathione is not a chelator, but is
needed in the general process of detoxification in the body. NAC is
also a powerful antioxidant. Andy has talked about supplementing with
NAC, glycine and glutamine, to provide the three amino acid building
blocks to make glutathione.
Citrate is a weak chelator. That is mentioned in "Amalgam Illness"
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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pgm,
I was just looking at my notes from when I was taking the liposomal glutithione,
I had actually forgotten that for a few days I felt very good,with increased energy straight after taking it.
But then began to have a few days with bouts of diarrhoea,
and cramping pains (which also looking back, did not last long but frightened me)these were mostly around liver gallbladder & back,and hurt a bit at night on 2 occasions.
But I did feel so tired and unwell during these days,I have not tried to take it again yet.
The natural medicine doctor did recommend I take it again.
As NAC is a precursor of glutithione I am not convinced that I need to take both as he suggested.I have researched a bit and have not yet found any reasons to suggest the use of both together.one or the other.
I have an appointment with natural doctor next tuesday,
I may end up trying it again.I will keep a record & keep you posted.
Yes ,you are right about the possibility of it being a sign that it's working for me.I have been stuck in a rut lately,if it hurts me , it's eliminated.I've just been relaxing myself as much as possible,trying to get through the days comfortably at the moment,alot of changes & rearranges going on...
I don't think the liposomal glutithione that I have contains ALA.
I was not aware of that possibility.
Will investigate.
The brand name is "Readisorb"
keep you all posted.
Last edited by sunflower; 12/14/07 07:27 AM.
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Sunshine, I've been eating sulphur foods all along. Especilly garlic,eggs,usually onions if I'm making a soup. I know there's alot of foods containing sulphur so I won't list all of what I eat, but I try to vary my vegetables and eat as many different coloured fruit &veg as possible to get variety of nutrients and so definitely alot of sulphur in my diet already. Garlic I usually take as a daily booster.1 or 2 raw crushed cloves mixed with salad or brown rice or something. Eggs I only really use if I have not been to the butchers and need some quick protein. I think I'm ok with sulphur but really I'm not sure what is making me feel what.I'm on a bit of a rollercoaster ride at the moment I feel a bit stuck. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stuckintheyolk.gif" alt="" /> Still waiting for my hairtestresults hopefully will shed some light.
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Sunflower. Sorry u on a rollercoaster ride right now.
Yeah, sulphur is everywhere, in so many foods. Your body gets used to handling these things, so the only way to really know if u gotta problem with them is exclude them for 5 days or a week then reintroduce some(slowly) and see what happens. List of foods is at the top of this thread if u feel the urge to give it a bash.
Sulphur problems are pretty common with us mercury people, I too assumed I was fine, until I did the test then got sick.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Glutathione is not a chelator, but is needed in the general process of detoxification in the body
I don't think this is the whole truth or even correct. Other sources say otherwise: http://www.cfspages.com/chelation.html"Glutathione should always be the first chelating agent to consider as it is the body's natural chelating agent. Indeed, it is beleived that a breakdown in the body's glutathione stores, synthesis and reclamation are a prerequisite to developing mercury toxicity. Glutathione (GSH) in the blood directly binds inorganic mercury (Hg2+) in a 2:1 ratio of GSH-Hg-GSH. This complex is seperated from the blood cells along with the rest of the water soluble contents of plasma at the kidney via glomerular filtration." http://www.cfspages.com/nutrition.html"Mercury inhibits the synthesis of glutathione, and depletes glutathione, a very important compound used by the body for excreting mercury, immune function, and protecting many chemical functions in the body." http://curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=969389"Glutathione deficiency has been found to be virtually universal in autoimmune diseases. This deficiency has two major implications: detox failure and viral/microbial activation. Glutathione plays a major role in detoxification. This deficiency impairs the body's ability to get rid of toxins." http://www.glutathione-gsh.com/autism.html"Glutathione's ability to chelate toxins" Note the words used: glutathione detoxes, excretes, chelates mercury. And Andy is telling that glutathione is not a mercury chelator? Glutathione is the body's natural way of dealing with mercury. Claiming that glutathione does not chelate mercury is the same as saying that our bodies are unable to deal with mercury on its own, which is just false. Any other chelator does the same thing as glutathione, it can just bind to mercury, but whether this compound is excreted or just hangs around is another matter. It also meets the stricter requirement of having two bonds with mercury, but it is done with two GSH atoms that binds to one mercury atom. Whether orally given glutathione actually works, depends on its ability to penetrate into the cells, where it is needed. This appears to not be the case for usual glutathione. However, newer formulations of glutathione, such as the liposomal glutathione appears to solve this problem to some degree, and you could then call even orally given glutathione as a true chelator. Also the efficiency of alpha lipoic acid may be mostly because of its effect to raise glutathione within cells.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 491
Advanced Master Member
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Re hair test…….. I have some more questions regarding my hair test results, as I have conflicting(opposite) results regarding copper toxicity. I am hair test number 112 – 38 8yrs Male London, UK ----------------------- my count result Counting rule #1 10 Counting rule #2 13 Counting rule #3 3 Counting rule #4 13 Counting rule #5 this rule is not met I do NOT meet the counting rules. However: Rule 3. I score 3 here; this is regarded as "unusual" (page 26) Rule 4. I score 13 here; this is regarded as "unusual" (page 26) If two or more are unusual then the level of suspicion can be bumped up one level to "Suspicious" So……………….my results do not meet the counting rules, but they are "suspicious" My mercury was in the red @ 4.1 My copper was in the red @ 59 Since my test does not meet the counting rules I have assumed that I "probably" have normal mineral transport, therefore I need to address Copper toxic problem. So …. I have been talking zinc…about 100mg per day for about 3-4 weeks now. Today, I have just had all my supplements muscle tested. I am taking about 10-15 different things. (I know not everyone believes in muscle testing, but I am happy to use this tool. I realise it is not foolproof by any means, especially with mercury issues.) When the zinc was tested it showed that I did not need it. It was not harmful, but my body did not react like it needed it, nor would benefit from having it. So I stopped the muscle tester and we did a load more tests, because that should not happen. I should have reacted like I needed it, which is how I reacted to the muscle testing for….B12, magnesium, vit C, betaine, Vit E, taurine, chromium, Vit B, Boron, VIt D, kelp and CoQ10. So we tested different types of zinc, Orotate, gluconate and biofood. The result was the same….no positive reaction. My body does not need it. I explained the reason for taking it was because the hair test came up copper toxic. So next…..we tested copper, both in the form of Orotate and gluconate. And the result was that my body reacted positive to it, i.e that I was deficient in copper and that I needed to supplement copper. So now…….i have two tests, 1) hair test and 2) muscle test…..showing opposite results. Ummmmm? Next…….back to my "suspicious" hair test. My iodine is very very close to low red. But it is not in the red. If that was in the red, then my hair test would have met the counting rules. I would have assumed that the high copper was not correct as I have deranged mineral transport. Next…….Iodine. I had been supplementing Himalayan rock salt for 8 months at the time of the hair test. I have been doing The Watercure. 1 small teaspoon every day, for 8 months. I did ask here at the time if this could affect my iodine count on the hair test but no one knew. I have been reading all about adrenals & thyroids recently and have noticed repeated references to supplementing Himalayan rock salt for the iodine it contains. Do you see what I'm thinking? I'm thinking my supplementing of the salt has increased my iodine, which has made my hair test look like it has normal mineral transport when in fact….i have deranged mineral transport and I am not copper toxic. Phew! What do u think? http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/message/20375 ------- if u follow the link u can see the replies. anyway.............i have ordered another hair test...will be interesting to see whats changed. I have had muscle testing done before and also "divining" both things of which I know some of you will be sceptical of, I showed deficiencies of minerals in hairtests and the muscle testing said I didn't need to take the various supplements but I later realised that the test is only relevant to the very moment in which you do it. For example I had my testing midmorning,after taking some of my doses of supplements and so I believe the muscle test was saying I did not need to take it because I had taken my daily dose already. I'm waiting on hair test results for 3 weeks now,I can't wait to get them,hopefully this week...it's all very tricky isn't it ?,ideally (if we could) we should be taking them weekly to see what's changing...I'd love to do that,be really interesting, however might run out of hair after a while. Our bodies are working hard all the time to try and sort everything out to the best of their ability. Maybe you are at a stage were things are beginning to click into place I hope so, that would be so well deserved.
Last edited by sunflower; 12/14/07 01:35 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,597
Master Elite Member
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Hi PGM. I think I posted this before, but I will post again… << I will try this again...I am wondering about the connection between glutathione and mercury toxicity. Can someone tell me if there is a connection. We have begun a supplement due to overgrowth of yeast and high citric levels, but I see glutathione mentioned now with respect to toxicity. Thanks! >> There are a number of connections and it is complicated. Glutathione is your body's natural antioxidant and mercury is an oxidation catalyst, so mercury uses up glutathione and leads to reduced levels. Glutathione has a thiol group on it which mobilizes mercury and causes the mercury to be more toxic, so increasing glutathione levels makes whatever amount of mercury is present be MORE harmful. Thus there is a tradeoff, and you want the RIGHT AMOUNT of glutathione for your body's needs. Not just more and more - you don't want too much any more than you want too little. Some people's bodies respond to mercury by making more thiol containing things like glutathione and cysteine. For these people they need to REDUCE their intake of everything sulfury to keep levels down. Other people's bodies respond to mercury by having low levels of glutathione etc. and they need to INCREASE their intake of sulfury stuff. Mercury is excreted from the liver in bile while bound to glutathione. Since liver glutathione levels are tightly regulated this is not strongly influenced by eating more sulfury stuff - but the extent to which the existing mercury can be mobilized and made more toxic IS strongly influenced by how much sulfury stuff you eat. Yeast is nourished by glutathione and other sulfury stuff. Sulfur food restriction reduces yeast levels. High citrate may be due to many things. Was anything else like pyruvate, aconitate, etc. high? One thing that is often helpful is B complex 3 or 4 times a day. Iron supplements are often also helpful. http://onibasu.com/archives/am/2470.htmlAndy Cutler He also said…. Glutathione is a sulphur food. Some people can handle sulphur foods and benefit from it. For example PGM, and Sosick. Some people cannot handle this and get sick from it. For example me!
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 185
Graduate Member
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SS, I have seen Andy's writings before, and that which you posted in particular. It's probably not a surprise to you that I don't agree with what he says. There are some points that I want to comment on.
First of all, the body uses glutathione to make mercury less toxic to the body, NOT more harmful as Andy claims. Claiming this goes simply against the basic principles that is known about glutathione and mercury. Our bodies want to bind glutathione to mercury so that it can't react further and cause damage.
Secondly, Andy fails to address the issue that glutathione is also used in the process of killing pathogens - glutathione is an important part of the immune system functionality (see the above sites I posted). Having a bad reaction to glutathione is just this - something dies, mercury is detoxed etc. (although it is still doubtful whether mercury detox causes much symptoms).
Thirdly, Andy seems to think that compounds like NAC & ALA chelate mercury directly, when they also both increase the glutathione in body (which can chelate mercury) and ALA in particular within cells. So, their chemical formula doesn't matter, if it is the glutathione that does the actual work. There is a lot of conversion going on from the stuff we eat, e.g. vit C & E also end up effectively increasing glutathione a little, and are therefore also useful.
Sulfury foods feed yeast? I haven't heard about this either, I thought eating eggs & meat is supposed to be a good anti-candida diet. At least I didn't notice any candida flareups, rather the contrary, when I ate eggs & meat. And I think many others here can agree on that.
In my opinion, if you get a bad reaction to sulfury foods, that means you still have a lot of pathogens around and you got a die-off from increasing glutathione, this doesn't necessarily mean that you fed the candida.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,597
Master Elite Member
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Hi PGM.
Well, I don’t know the in’s and out’s of glutathione. I am just poisoned person who has read a couple of books, I’m not a chemist or whatever. Which is why I posted someone else’s views/ideas on Glutatthione. But I did not post any old persons views; I posted a mercury experts views. Someone who’s whole life revolves around helping other people that have been screwed up by mercury. Every word he says takes mercury into account.
IMHO Andy Cutler is probably the best in the world in regard to mercury issues, so in my opinion his views are a pretty good thing to post on this thread. I trust them, so others may want to also.
The second quote in the above post was posted by Andy about 1 week ago, he is on Yahoo FDC fairly regular at the moment, maybe you should go and discuss this with him there. I for one would love to know more about these things that I cannot eat for some strange reason.
What I know is two things.
1) I cannot handle sulphur foods and I feel better when I exclude them all.
2) I trust Cutler.
Why do I trust him so much? Well, because his book perfectly describes all my symptoms, all my problems and all my life upto now. Everything he has said makes sense to me. Now I have got rid of my amalgams and have started chelation….what he said would happen is happening. I have not been hurt by any of this ideas. (I have been gigantically let down by every other doctor or ND that I have ever met.)
I have seen your opposing views on Cutler on various threads, which is cool with me, I don’t know him or anything like that.
Have your read his book AI? What did you think of that?
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,597
Master Elite Member
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PGM In fact, this exact discussion is going on now in Yahoo FDC. Is that you? The role of thiols, dithiols, nutritional factors and interacting li Posted by: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:38 pm (PST) Hi all, I was searching for something and came accross this article. It is interesting that they mention ALA and can be used as a chelator "when used in an appropriate manner". The role of thiols, dithiols, nutritional factors and interacting ligands in the toxicology of mercury. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/e...DetailView&TermToSearch=17408840A couple of items of interest that I wonder if an expert can chime in on. "Whilst N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) and glutathione (GSH) have been recommended in the treatment of mercury toxicity in the past, an examination of available evidence suggests these agents may in fact be counterproductive." Ok, given that neither of these are a chelator this seems right. Though I thought that GSH was involved in clearing cells of heavy metals. "Evidence suggests however that the co-administration of selenium and dithiol chelation agents during treatment may also be counter- productive." This last one interested me the most. Any thoughts on this? Anyone have access to the whole article? I'd like to read it. Thanks, Mike The above link says this………………….. Mercury has been a known as a toxic substance for centuries. Whilst the clinical features of acute mercury poisoning have been well described, chronic low dose exposure to mercury remains poorly characterised and its potential role in various chronic disease states remains controversial. Low molecular weight thiols, i.e. sulfhydryl containing molecules such as cysteine, are emerging as important factors in the transport and distribution of mercury throughout the body due to the phenomenon of "Molecular Mimicry" and its role in the molecular transport of mercury. Chelation agents such as the dithiols sodium 2,3-dimercaptopropanesulfate (DMPS) and meso-2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid (DMSA) are the treatments of choice for mercury toxicity. Alpha-lipoic acid (ALA), a disulfide, and its metabolite dihydrolipoic acid (DHLA), a dithiol, have also been shown to have chelation properties when used in an appropriate manner. Whilst N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) and glutathione (GSH) have been recommended in the treatment of mercury toxicity in the past, an examination of available evidence suggests these agents may in fact be counterproductive. Zinc and selenium have also been shown to exert protective effects against mercury toxicity, most likely mediated by induction of the metal binding proteins metallothionein and selenoprotein-P. Evidence suggests however that the co-administration of selenium and dithiol chelation agents during treatment may also be counter-productive. Finally, the issue of diagnostic testing for chronic, historical or low dose mercury poisoning is considered including an analysis of the influence of ligand interactions and nutritional factors upon the accuracy of "chelation challenge" tests.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident."
Sunshine
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 608
Elite Member
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I think in the end , we are just experimenting with what makes us feel better , I'm pretty sure that no one wants to take something that makes them feel worse , this illness is bad enough in itself , why make it even worse? as I have found out through my own experience it is not a one size fits all with treating and curing this illness,lord knows that doctors don't have a clue ,so we are stuck being our own chemists and doctors now. by the time we are all cured we will have earned our masters degree in mercury detox
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 185
Graduate Member
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Hi SS. It's good if your own problems match perfectly his explanations. Unfortunately, mine does not. I haven't written anything yet on the FDC forum, that was someone else's. I haven't also read Andy's book completely, just the excerpts that are available on the net, and some of the archived messages.
Don't make the mistake of looking at what just one person says, and have his ideas as the only truth, even if they happen to match your problems well. There is a lot of work done by others as well, and some of Andy's ideas are not compatible with the rest.
I also like Andy's chelation protocols (they are good), but you really need more research to confirm that they really work like his theories suggests. We don't even know that the pain from chelation comes actually from mercury. You'd be surprised to know how much mercury a healthy person with lots of amalgams excretes every day with the aid of glutathione, without feeling a thing.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 27
Junior Member
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Bex, the soles of my feet also burn but much more so after rounds than during.
Mark
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