You're right. There is no point in arguing with creationists because—if they know what they are talking about—they will point out how silly it is to believe that molecules self-assemble into complex, symmetrical, self-replicating machines.

I know the idea of an external intelligence is difficult for many to accept and to deal with, but it's where the data leads and it's why I must accept it.



It has been said that the worst person you can lie to is yourself.

A person who lies to themselves will unwittingly lie to others because they are not able to discern the truth or they are unwilling to accept it.

Chemical evolution is the belief that rocks (or "primordial soup", if you wish) turn into complex, symmetrical, self-replicating machines given enough time. This is from the mouth of the person who wrote the book with the same title, who now happens to be a creationist.

You see, as we grow in maturity, we face adversity in life that forces us to make decisions. This adversity forces us to look deeper and deeper into ourselves and cause us to reevaluate our own morality and beliefs.

Some people—in the face of this adversity—become more refined and continue to be willing to face the illogic and selfishness in themselves becoming better, nicer, kinder people.

Others—in the face of this adversity—become more angry and continue to resist logic and reason entering deeper into denial and continue to act selfishly becoming more contrary in character as time and adversity passes.

This process is called "going through the fire", adversity being the "fire". This process burns off the fat and shows us what we're really made of, and if we are willing to face ourselves (via courage), and if we are willing to admit our faults and make mid-course corrections to our actions and beliefs (via humility), we can achieve a peace in our lives that is wonderful and is worth every minute of the adversity that it took to get there.

Facing our own belief system can cause adversity in and of itself when we see logical conflicts (hypocrisy) in it. When faced with this type of adversity, we choose whether we take the courageous path of self-examination or the cowardly path of denial.

Now back to how this connects with the point at hand.

Chemical evolution claims that rock-soup turns into complex, symmetrical, self-replicating machines. To deny this is nothing more than denying the clear facts—denial. It is not a strawman—as you claim: Nothing of the sort.

I firmly believe that your denial of the simple and well-known facts of chemical evolution is evidence of the success that the marketers of the faith of evolution have had in getting people to forget the fundamentals and to distract you with so-called "evidences" that are nothing more than smoke and mirrors—magic—distraction.

Yes, when analyzing a belief system, you cannot be distracted by the showmanship of the cult leader. You cannot overlook the fundamentals. You have to look squarely at the foundational beliefs of the faith to know what it's made of, and the fact is, whether we like it or not, chemical evolution teaches the most insanely ridiculous religion that has ever existed, namely, that rocks turned into complex, symmetrical, self-replicating machines over time.

Yes, chemical evolutionists dazzle you with fancy molecules and flashy ideas that appeal to the pride by sounding intellectually feasible, but at the core, it's still saying the same ridiculous thing. The key to being able to discern a cult from true science is to remember the fundamentals.

And finally, when you do get around to taking a skeptical look at the dazzle, you will find that they are hollow and are often based in lies themselves, just like magic.

A little example of this is dazzle in action is the discovery of cosmic organic molecules. The "believer" will quickly latch on to the emotionally appealing idea that this "discovery" lends credibility to evolutionary faith as a whole, however, the true scientists will quickly point out that this process of reasoning is just like a magician throwing a piece of paper on the ground next to the Empire State Building and saying, "See how much more likely it is that this building is really made of paper.", whereas the true scientist will quickly realize that even if you stacked paper to match the height of the building, you still have not approached the complexity of the original structure.

I've heard you preach over and over that complexity is not the issue, but in fact, it is the issue. It is the issue in exactly the same way that in entropy, complexity is the issue. Complexity matters.



The hypocrisy in your statement above is that you dogmatically believe that the Bible "is full of logical inconsistencies". Please point them out to me. I've asked you to do this before but you never have.

In this belief that you hold, you are not only being dogmatic yourself, but you have failed to support your dogmatic position, plus, you are attempting to disarm my position for the same reason while accusing me of being dogmatic. Not good logic here, Linda.

Also, I've already dealt with this issue of attempting to make reality fit my existing beliefs or desires. I don't do that, but, with all due respect, you do.

I have studied both evolution and the Bible (and many other subjects as well) and have found evolution to be "full of logical inconsistencies" while the Bible has been amazingly integral. This is my true and honest finding. If I had found problems with the Bible or if I had found evidence for evolution, I would happily change my position because I am an advocate for truth. I don't have any other agenda except to find the truth. I know myself well and have searched myself for hidden agendas or beliefs or desires that would could my judgment but I have found none, except this:

There are a few Biblical laws that don't appeal to me emotionally, but if this were to bias my judgment, it would bias my judgment against the Bible, not for it.

In continuing my study, I have learned that these Biblical laws that don't appeal to my emotions are good for me regardless of my personal feelings about them. Therefore, I bring my emotions into subjugation to these laws knowing they are good.

I believe this fact alone accounts for most of the clouded judgment concerning the integrity of the Bible, namely, that many or most people are generally not capable of being objective because they allow their emotions to be the primary tool of discernment, and this is no way for a person to conduct science.

Yes, the search for truth takes courage and humility, and if we're lacking in it, the search will give us the opportunity to grow in these areas.



[color:"red"]Strawman alert <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />[/color]

I don't use the Bible as evidence for creationism. I simply find that creationism is the most logical and scientifically sound explanation. The Bible happens to coincide with what science has shown us.



I'm very sorry you feel this way. I'm not trying to be patronizing at all.

You may be detecting an empathetic sentiment because I view you as a victim. Since you don't have the knowledge and experience studying the conspiratorial side of this issue, you are "stuck" in a logical corner being coerced into believing it because you simply can't accept that such a large deception could be coordinated and propagated so well.

I have pity on you and others who have been sucked into this evolutionary faith and this is why I have continually provided videos and links to information that will help you realize that a global conspiracy does indeed exist, and happens to be just as the Bible had predicted thousands of years ago.

My pity will eventually expire if you continue to resist examining this evidence and if you continue to promote your belief system so dogmatically even though you can't logically support it and openly admit that you really don't know for sure and that it's open to change because for these reasons. It's clear to me that you have work to do in this area and I would hope that you have the humility it takes to admit you're wrong when/if you finally discover that you have been duped. I am continually amazed at how many people spend years or lifetimes supporting a lie because they don't have the humility to admit that they were wrong. I truly hope you don't fall into that trap.

The bottom line Linda, is that the world is just the way the Bible predicted it would be. For those who have the passion and humility and courage to check it out, there are a myriad of free videos and articles online that will help you with your studies, just make sure you correlate them with the source to be sure they are telling you the truth, because there is a lot of misinformation out there as well.

Parsing through all this material may seem to be a daunting task, but Christ said, "Seek and you shall find." I can attest that it is true. If you're willing to put some time in, you can eventually learn how to logically discern the liars from those who tell the truth. I will also tell you that the time is well worth the effort and I hope everyone will take the time to take that journey.

Either the Bible is accurate, or it is a grand conspiracy concocted by some people who are able to predict the future (or some mixture of both). You see Linda, you are a conspiracy theorists too, you just haven't realized it yet.


[color:"brown"]General Information[/color]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gfa4OqMSawk

[color:"brown"]Archeology: Evidence for the Bible[/color]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lb-zKTuP7DU

[color:"brown"]EVIDENCE for the Bible: Christ's Life & Death[/color]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BlVFwMN-EQU

[color:"brown"]The Authenticity of the Bible[/color]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VgmIFFtEMsE