None of this is really answering the question I put at the beginning of this thread. I'd like to discuss some specific claims made by creationist leaders like Hovind. You recommended him to me, Russ, but I'll discuss anyone you like. Let's get to the core of what a creationist believes, and what their grounds are for rejecting evolution -- presumably that is one of the reasons this area of the forum exists? Please let's start with a few examples at a time, it's easier to discuss things in detail that way.