I've read about the supposed toxicity of aluminum chloride, an ingredient found in anti-perspirant, but I wonder how much weight these allegations really hold. So I ask you, my fellow posters, have you got any really strong thoughts on the matter one way or the other?

Is deodorant really a safer product to use than anti-perspirant (despite that, in my experience, it just doesn't work as efficiently)?

http://www.mercola.com/2003/sep/3/antiperspirants.htm

http://www.mercola.com/1999/archive/antiperspirants.htm

Hope tis helps <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Linda.

I researched this up lots about 1.5 years ago when that big scare was going around about something called “Beds” that is included in the majority of aerosol spray cans. Carcinogenic or poisonous or something like that that, all the Producers assured us they are NOT harmful, then quietly dropped them for the ingredients! Was surreal watching that play itself out over 3-4 months in the press.

I decided I did not want to stop my body from doing its job of trying to remove toxins from itself, which is what anti-perspirants do, irrespective of any toxic gunk that is included.
Now I use a “crystal stick” which is made of mineral salts and ammonium alum. I use this maybe once/twice per month if I get a bit wiffy.

Once or twice a month only? I need something for daily use. Unfortunately, most "homeopathic" products just plain don't work for me.

I'm wondering just how harmful aluminum chloride (applied topically in the form of anti-perspirant) can really be for a person long term.

I also used to need one everyday, but now somehow i don't smell much. I do sweat, just doesn't smell bad. i put it down to my drinking 2 liters of water a day, but thats only my guess.

have u tried the crystal stuff? i works pretty good.

Well, admittedly I haven't tried that but given my experience with similar products I have a good guess how it might work for me. I could be wrong - we'll see.

I wonder if water consumption really can play a role in such things...

...or it could also be that the less you use the less your body depends on deodorant/anti-perspirant. Hmm.

Pwcca, maybe what I do may help you--i'ts worth a try

I first use a stick deoderant by Nature's Gate brand-- that is all herbal- with none of the aluminum, or chemicals.

I may also use an herbal pump spray - Waleda has a Sage /witch Hazel, etc., herbal deoderant spray. There is another company I found that sells a really nice smelling deoderant spray with only essential oils. Otherwise, I will apply my favorite essential oil under my arms, after applying the all natural stick deoderant.

Now if I just want to stay dry and clean smelling-- with no essential oils under the arm-- I will just use the all natural stick deoderant and buff on baking soda afterwards.

I won't use an anti-perspirant because I figure that blocking pores and sweat glands can't be all that good for a person in the long run.

~~ just my 2 cents worth on what works for me

Thanks, Boldyloxx <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How do you go about applying baking soda? Is it just straight up baking soda or some Arm and Hammer type of deodorant stick, etc.?

My husband discovered the crystal stick, and it works better than any other deodorant he has tried. It works for me, too, but it really irritates my skin after I have shaved.

My nutritional healing advisor said that she used a product branded Miessence that has a deodorant, and had good results with that as well. I plan to order some, but haven't yet, so I can't give a good review.

I do know I want to get away from the aluminum!

Ummmmmmm….doing some research here…..these deodorant sticks are advertised as “Contains NO Aluminum Chlorohydrate.” http://www.thecrystal.com/product_information.cfm

Makes u think no aluminum…………. right?????????????????????

Alum Ammonium-based deodorants “…….It is found in soil and clays that only produce metallic aluminum products when processed. Even so, the alunite molecules are too large for the body to absorb physically. This is confirmed by the fact that alum weighs over 36 times as much as water and it is impossible through natural means to get water to permeate the skin[5].”

http://urlbam.com/ha/0zzzz


Do we believe this? “The aluminum molecules are too large for the body to absorb????????”

Next…………………

Ammonia alum, NH4Al(SO4)2•12H2O, a white crystalline double sulfate of aluminium, is used in water purification, in vegetable glues, in porcelain cements, in natural deodorants (though potassium alum is more commonly used), in tanning, dyeing and in fireproofing textiles.(from Wikipedia)

I think I have fallen for another marketing scam! These sticks don’t contain ALUMINUM CHLOROHYDRATE but they are made of AMMONIUM ALUM which just happens to be WHITE CRYSTALINE DOUBLE SULFATE OF ALUMINIUM.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? Anyone else know any more about this?

My reason for investigating is my hair test came up toxic aluminum.


(I've shortened your link to keep this thread more readable.)

! I call them "repellants" instead of deodrant etc.

Hi again,
I make my own stuff for underarm use,I mix some lovely organic coconut oil with a few drops of essentisl oils,Ilike teatree,lavender &rose together.But you can experiment
with whatever oils...
The coconut oil is antifungal,the teatree&lavander are antibacterial & people always comment on the lovely scent.
I have tried crystal deodrants but I like my recipe better,sweating is good,also natural fibre clothes are good.
smell ya later!
sunflower
sunflower

I have been doing a bit more research. What a bunch of %^%$£. Crystal sticks are made of aluminium salts! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I am throwing mine away right now.

I use coconut oil daily, so I will give my pits some too now. cheers

Got bad reaction to anti-perspirants containing aluminium when I was 17. Haven't really used them since. (I'm now 60) Spending all day scratching your armpits raw is not a pretty sight.
Egol have a brand called Ercarol, which I tried once. Worked well. Don't know if it is still available.
Found a deodorant that suits me and only use if I'm around other people.
Like the idea of natural ingredients though. Might try some out.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif" alt="" />

Now I’m on the DMSA, I smell real strong. I had to find a deodorant that worked for me without rashes and itching. I found a company called “Jason” - no rashes!

Just wanna say I few years ago before I knew anything about toxicity and stuff but was already ill I noticed how bad I would begin to feel after using an antiperspirant, but thought to myself "naah, sick after antiperspirant, how silly". well now I know, this stuff is defienetely toxic and is absorbed.

Anyone know of a real good alternative? I used coconut oil and it works but not as well as I'd like to, and as much sorry I am to say this, not as well as antiperspirants.

Hi Jinx
I researched those crystal deodorant stones some more (which I massively slagged off in the above thread some time ago<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />) and turns out they are in fact safe to use. They have been recommended by Andreas Moritz and he explained that the aluminium salts in the crystal are not the poisonous aluminium of regular deodorants, they are safe natural things and cannot hurt or harm you.

I now use a crystal deodorant stone when I need to use a deodorant.

Hello everybody:
I am not using any deodorants or antiperspirants, that is why I did not "see" this post for so long. But with so many "hits" I could not resist, and so are my 2c.
I heard of one person (don't remember woman or man) who had developed serious kidney problems after using antiperspirant for a period of time.
Kidneys are the kind of organs, which do not give much feedback, as they are dying of abuse and neglect. Only when about 10% of functional capacity is left, then you begin to feel it, and even then, mostly as systemic effects.

Once I was talking to a guy in his room in U residence, his roommate came in, he took off his shirt, applied something to his armpits, then cologne to a few spots of his body and hair, put on another shirt and went out.
I was shocked! There is no other word to describe my feelings! It just did not look reasonable! If I have to change shirts, then this is an opportunity to wash up a little. How long does it take to run a face cloth over the armpits a few times?
Obviously, it is much easier for guys, but if you see at least one person with critically iinadequate kidney function, as I have during my stint through a nursing school, you would reevaluate many things.

Regarding aluminum absorption, I talked once to a guy who used to work for one major US aircraft manufacturer in Canada (I do not want to name it, they all use the same technology). They were machining plenty of aluminum alloys. He said EVERYBODY has got Alzheimers by their late 40s-early 50s. I can only guess how he found out about it, I would imagine he kept in touch with some folks.
He was very glad he had left after a relatively short period of time there. I would imagine that most of the aluminum absorption comes from inhaling dust, since every machine shop does plenty of grinding and polishing, which produce very fine dust. So in this case it is not even absorption of MOLECULES, but of specks of dust!
I would imagine alveolar mucosa absorbs differently, as compared to skin, but this is still smth to think about.
However, we also cannot exclude that some aluminum got absorbed through skin, since aluminum particles would inevitably end up in a coolant and a machine operator handles wet parts all day long.
A yet another possibility is that some aluminum was inhaled through coolant aerosol. LOts of it are formed in any machine shop, since parts are continuously blown with compressed air to remove coolant droplets.

Continuing with the argument of aluminum absorption, if you read medical sources, it is clearly stated that Hep C can only be transmitted through blood contact. But if you talk to people from South Asia, where there is lots of Hep C, they would tell you they've got it through contaminated water.

The official story about AIDS transmission is the same, and yet I heard that a study about transmission via mosquitoes was terminated abruptly, as soon as it appeared that the findings would contradict the official lie.

That is why I believe we would be much better off if we develop a natural distrust of sweet-talking PR and marketing folks.
(just look at the propaganda about fluoridation, vaccines, GM foods etc!)
Oleg

http://books.google.com/books?id=hv...&sig=5v52OIqTWwxRzDqjC3qhZ9EqvzQ

if you check this book, page 226, he talks about deodorants…makes good sense to me.

this is just one paragraph, if you are interested in this its well worth reading the 2 pages about deodorants......

“A deodorant stone costs $10 and lasts one year. It works wonderfully and has no nasty side effects. When you check the ingredients list of a deodorant stone, don’t get alarmed when you see the word “alum” written there. Alum isn’t the same thing as aluminium chlorhydrate. Alum is a natural mineral salt, and is unrelated to aluminium chlorohydrate or aluminium chlorohydrate.”

Dear Sunshine P:
I do believe it is written there exactly what you say. All I am saying is that I prefer to stay away from things which were not made by nature. (even with perfectly natural things you often have to be careful: e.g. water in mountainous regions often has plenty of fluorides)
Here is one of the stories, which formed my position on health issues:
Once I had a patient (a man of about 60) with confirmed lung cancer; he also had some sort of a tumor in a lower colon. Doctor said that lung cancer is a priority and they will be deciding on the course of the action, and will start on his colon biopsy later.
That man asked me to bring a roll of toilet paper from the washroom, tore off a length, folded it and pressed against his behind. I figured he has rectal bleeding. I had a look, that paper was soaked in blood.
Anyone who gets one of those would have plenty of reasons to reevaluate his outlook on life.
I had a patient with malignant brain tumor, a girl of 17, still in high school. One woman had her toe amputated at 26, neuropathy, a woman of 32 had lymphatic cancer, a man in his late 30s had liver cancer, a computer engineer. And, of course, plenty of older patients with "conditions", but you perceive those differently, as compared to younger people.
It is a fact that exposure to industrial chemicals is the leading cause of cancers.
That is why I try my best to stay away from anything that came from a chemical tank, be that a juice, a fruit drink, a pop or antiperspirant.
I have an entire picture gallery with various juice labels, which were on steel drums: deadWater.info/juice.htm
Even if those fruits were squeezed under the best conditions and there was nothing added to the juice and it was transported frozen, something will definitely be added at the bottling plant, otherwise it will spoil after a day or two on a supermarket shelf.
Why not have a fresh fruit?
Best regards:
Oleg

Hey Oleg, great website... we don't have flouridated water here... if they ever put in we will have to move on... my daughter was raised mainly on non-flouridated water...long thick strong bones, never a cavity yet in her life.. she has always been a full head taller than her classmates and she is the only, the only kid, out of hundreds, in her school with grades to make the gifted program.

But, the recipe with eggshells and vinegar, I have heard of that before but wasn't sure how to do it.. so thanks! But also, my tomatoes will love that! tomatoes love calcium and they love a tad of vinegar in the water to keep the soil a bit acidic and then hopefully they won'tbe munching on pesticide residues that might be in the soil and we get a bigger better crop!!

I'll start tomorrow !

I dropped alum from the pickle recipe a few years ago, calcium keeps 'em just as crisp btw. alum is an aluminum deriviative far as i know. I'll try a batch with an eggshell!!

HI Oleg. I agree, all chemicals need to be avoided. It is amazing the places I have found them. I discovered my mattress, duvet and pillow where pumped full of Brominated Flame Retardant chemicals, called BFR’s. These wonder chemicals stop the bedding catching fire…..which real handy for 0.00000001 pct of the population. Unfort they are also super toxic and caused me untold problems…..i was sleeping on this toxic soup 8 hours a day….sorry 8 hours a night for …… for my whole life…….lovely eh! I wonder how many others this happens to???? Well….probably everyone…. BFR’s are required by law to be in these products……I feel much better now I have changed to non-toxic organic bedding. I sleep well every night now.

Re “ALUM” in deodorant stones….i thought this was a “Natural mineral salt” and not a man made chemical abomination. Do you know?

Sos…..what eggshell and vinegar recipe?

Eggshell and vinegar mix for chelating calcium from the eggshells, from Oleg's website here:

http://www.deadwater.info/neutral.htm

sunflower does that too she mentioned it. I tried it before but wasn't sure how long to let it sit and it got kind of skanky.

Hi, guys:
I'll reply to both threads here.
It is very nice to hear that some parents understand smth about healthy living. When children drink water without rat poison added to it, they develop naturally. The only victims are the medical profession as well as those who manufacture health-care products, as they have less customers.

Regarding the bedding, I have to do some reading about BFR. But except winter, I keep windows open, I use Japanese-style heating - extra clothing. But so far the rationale for this was to minimize the effects of radon.
Some people I know never open a window even in summer!
Best regards:
Oleg

It is real difficult to find good water these days that's a fact. I have had to work at it a bit. watch out for the flouride in your toothpaste too, and dental fillings.

Oleg, I have on the counter, some eggshells from breakfast this morning... I put them into a small jar, covered them with vinegar, and put the lid on the jar. I figure they are ok not going into the fridge because of the vinegar, kind of like pickles, I don't always need to refrigerate those... but how long do I let that sit there till you would consider it ready to use? Should I shake it a couple times a day?

thx sunshine, all I gotta do now is find them in Poland...:) are those babies any more expensive than typical antiperspirants where u bought them?

Does not cost much….i been googling and this is the one I have

http://www.graftons.co.uk/naturallyfresh.html

cost about - £3.49 ($7) so not much.

I use the deodorant that I use because they sell it in my shop, I have no idea if it is better or worse than any other stones.

No need to get the big stones…they last for ages.

You need to wet it and rub under the arm for longer than you think. 20-30 seconds….if you rush it…it does not work so well….needs a longer-than-you-think under arm rub.

BTW…well done for persevering with the ALA chelation….congrats and keep up the good work. My fingers are crossed for you.

Dear SoSick and other forummembers
I have started a bew thread in the fluoridation section of this forum in reply to this post, to keep it focused
regards:Oleg