Ya know, the mercury road has certainly brought to ma attention a number a subects Ah would not a been aware of, cept maybe peripherally. It's been a REAL eye opener. Still, was kinda nice sleepin, dang it all. This here film is for the few who want to wake up, everbody else, don't watch it. It's long. Pertend ya rented it at Blockbuster. Sit tight, watch it over a beer/reverse osmosis water. It'll offend the Christians, no offense intended, if ya don't like that bit, just move on to the government bit. Linda, it's intelligent. Ah wouldn't offend anabody by recommendin a 2hr. film that wadn't worth the time to watch. Coulda put it on the God thread but thought Ah'd just put it here where y'all can ignore it if thats your inclination. http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/index.html
I'm afraid my computer is a bit slow to be able to play this, I did give it a try. The flashing images and music at the beginning are unfortunately hard on the cortisol too. Could you maybe give a summary of what the film is about? Or a link or two?
sorry, no can do, ma powers a speech just ain't up to it. Most of it is audio, and for ma own computer Ah had to pause it a few times to buffer it. Ah know Ah'm barkin up the wrong tree in prolly the wrong forest anaways. It's prolly cuz Ah'm barkin in the first place. Scuse me. Welp, it starts with some real interestin mythological explorations about the uncanny multiple and absolutely fundamental similarities about the Christian story compared to the ancient Egyptian's belief in Horus, ( plus this bein a recurrin theme in many religions from way back) an thats quite a story in itself. All tied in with the equinoxes. Then it works it's way onwards to 911 and the actual unlegality of havin to pay income tax in the good ol' U.S. That there film has quite a span. Nope, can't do it. No matter. It just blew ma helmet off, kinda good though .
This sounds like really good stuff. I will give it another go. Maybe my husband (the IT expert) can get it running better on my computer <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks Dawn, Yep, Linda, it's worth persevering, maybe just listen to the sound if ya re-buffer it a few times. So- sick, y'all are just so- predictable. Ah actually liked that film cuz it didn't even mention the word IIluminati, it talked names , places, and the mechanics a how it's done. Most of us know about the Illuminuti ad nauseum. Watch it with your hubster, Linda, could be ineresting how he thinks about stuff like chemtrails ( even though they ain't even mentioned) afterwards.
LOL he doesn't believe chemtrails exist, also isn't fussed about diet and supplements, or even the mouthful of amalgams he has. I just have to think he's lucky I'm here to help when he eventually gets ill. Actually I think he'd probably be willing to get his amalgams removed if we had heaps of money, he's watched the smoking tooth vid at least. Is it a time bomb? Who knows. His stepmother is lively and spry in her mid-80s and also has a mouthful of amalgams. Some people have all the luck eh.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. Just remember it was snakes and vipers that made you believe 'Christians' are offended in the first place and you believe it still. Not as if we haven't been telling y'all about it for years, offending y'all left and right not withstanding. Maybe ask the pope about that for a heavenly mother or black madonna version you can work with better.
Anyway, glad to see you are making progress. Such a blessing, the internet. Beware of them snakes and vipers, can you spot one when you see one?
This is the kind of video that starts spouting crap with no facts whatsoever and twisting everything to come up to a conclusion, while the method is persuasive in getting people riled up it is based on complete fiction
Religions have similarities? who would have known, all of them being made by man and all?
Have you guys dealt with the government before, it is a bureaucracy with so many people involved in the chain of command that it would be impossible for them to get away with something like 9/11 without people knowing, uncovering it, etc This is a very superstitious forum, I don't blame you though we all got screwed with amalgams. You can go on youtube, there are hundreds other videos with better arguments if you are still hungry for conspiracy theories and the same awww shocks technique
The only true statement is the title of the thread
Ineresting choice a name, there, Krim, Ah think ya maybe don't know the meanin a the word superstitious. Anaways ma point entirely, the same turnin a blind eye to the willfull poisonin of all of us here through orgs. like the FDA is the same modus operandi that perpetuates the increasingly fascistic state (complete with prison camps at the ready ) that the good ol 'U S of A is turnin into cuz a the complacent bluster a folks blinded by idiotic disbelief . Yep, I'll agree with ya that the visible chain a command in govt. is pretty shambolic . Maybe thats why they gotta stay so long at Bohemian Grove or the Bilderburg meetins gotta be so dang long. Ah find the term "conspiracy theory" purty dang pathetic, as if usin that term is the automatic poo-poo to ridicule what free thinkin smart folks are up to. Welp, at least we know where we stand.By all means, folks, look on youtube for more info before it's all shut down. Y'all got a micro chip yet Krim? Anaways, this world is shockin. But hey, glad ya watched it, or did ya?
Linda, If his stepmother is not bothered by her amalgams , it might be because she has the older type that give off far less mercury than the newer ones.
aawww shocks is it and old ones at that. I have developed callouses on my eyelids.
They will never shutdown utube it makes too much money. the world will blow up first.
Whatever I am on Elvie, you should try it. Sure does beat yer fat homely bluetits.
You really should not take all of these things to heart it really doesn't matter as much as paying yer rent. It's all good to know sort of, but it's still not the truth just a piece of the puzzle. There is no real truth in any of it, just bull bull and more bull all lined up so nicely to amaze yer bulltits. And that is the most important thing you will learn from it in the end. That you are amazed and dazed and confused. Ask the pope about bull while yer at it.
Said it before, if thats what Christianity does for ya, gotta wonder. Quit doggin mah threads an get your own. Ah'm sure "" Zeitgeist the Movie," one a the most talked about docs. on- line EVER (yep. in its short time out there) can't hold a candle to your hippie movie. Why don't ya put it to the test, put your own lil offerin on-line an lets see what kinda edification y'all are offerin. Oh me, callouses on your eyelids, y'all could be one a the reptilian shape shifters that David Icke talks about. That would explain it! Thanks folks, Ah was beginnin to wonder maself. Absolutely no offense intended. OK- tin hat at the ready, minds open? Let us proceed
What hate? Quite seriously I think you all need to lighten up just a bit.
You know, this is an area I was required to study in college, a good 25 years ago. I actually wrote a 40 page paper on the sublimal effects of archaic symbolism on the human subconscious way back then, tracing the use of common symbol, religious, political, theatrical and otherwise, through the ages. We were required to know these things in college a quarter decade ago because of their impact on the general masses. I have been studying it ever since because it is fascinating. Once you realize certain things it's no longer possible to simply ignore them. Where have you all been?
Things of this nature may been a 'secret' in a certain sense once, but that is aeons ago already. Long before my time even. Unfortunately you don't seem to get it, that, you guys, many of you, with your so very sensitive opinions and fragile egos, are stragglers, and not by a small stretch. Even Russ has been posting similar material for the longest time, just read the various threads, and you have either ignored him or lamblasted him, and now you are proposing that you are going to wake us up.
It's laughable I have to admit. Because you are many times the same bunch that heehaw this type of information when it is first presented to you by someone else. In any case, without more knowledge of deeper issues here eg; a thorough study of the close realtionship between religion and politics, you are simply just as prone to be dragged along by one imposter claiming to know 'the truth' as you are the other. And that is exactly what I see happening here.
Anyone who would present Christians as being 'offended' by such material, or anyone who would present all of Christianity as being subject to delusion has either no knowledge of history, no understanding of Christianity whatsoever, or is trying to push the wool back over your eyes for other dubious reasons. If it were not for Christianity, chances are good that we would all still be peasants living in little huts serving either a Roman or muslim emperor and trading our itchy beans for firewood.
Christians have been the most outspoken voices to try to educate for the longest time, and the most common reaction they get is 'don't rattle my cage you bigot'.
Everbody lighten up? Y'all don't respect peoples comments. Never once heard ya apologise, ever. OK, y'all are the greatest an got there before some folks here, HEY WORLD, So-Sick knew about ALL this in college! We peons need not trouble our fuzzy lil heads over it! Phew, back to sleep, speakin a which, don't you ever, SS ? "Even Russ...blah blah ..( .more condescension...)" Welp, Ah truly thank Russ for what all he does on those ( an all ) parts a this forum but some a them threads just don't get the traffic plus Ah feel like folks know each other over here an maybe if folks stopped tryin to impress people that they knew it all before, some serious discussion could take place. Cuz man oh man, things stay the same in the world an we are truly screwdrivered. By the way, anabody inerested in this film might find it ineresting that Alex Jones, (an important patriot , free thinker and Christian , check him out, ) is showing this film with the first part left off. SS, mah real question to you is , are you here to spread dissension? Seein as ya claim to know all about these things , why put people down as they could be embarkin on the journey to the truth and the reality as not portrayed in the big bu$$ine$$ media? An Ah thought humility was a Christian virtue? Seems like ya just wanna cause trouble. For the record, Ah never posted this film here as to provoke a religious argument. That ain't the point at all. If Ah'da wanted to do that, it'd be on the God thread. P.S.. anon, SS still has fillins so don't rule out the cilantro. SS doesn't trust a single dentist with a safe protocol for amalgum removal so Ah think we can be sure there's still a fair amount a mercury toxicity commin out, welp, toxicity a some kind anaways. Could be a case a cilantro gone wrong, though.
I'm still keen to watch this film but my husband hasn't had a chance to sort the computer out yet. Judging from the conversations here it's got a lot of thought-provoking stuff in it. Just spending a lot of my time right now trying to get things ready to sell on eBay, taking pictures of it etc. No matter how much second-hand stuff I sell, just can't keep up with the bills. Flippin' DMSA.
this could be an example that cilantro isnt good to take. mercury poisoning is very serious it can lead to all sorts of serious diseases and thinking that picking cilantro in the garden and eating it as you like can give you serious consequences. NDF is different, although i wouldnt trust the stuff myself, at least its controllable.
Everbody lighten up? Y'all don't respect peoples comments. Never once heard ya apologise, ever.
If any one owes someone an apology Elvis, it is probably you.
From the get go, you confuse the Catholic church, which is actually the last visible remnant of the Roman empire and it's militia, with Christianity, when in fact it is not but rather has attempted simply to claim dominion of Christians and likewise define Christianity for the past 1800 years not excluding the the use of brutal force to do so. Christianity was a major factor in the fall of the Roman Empire, and only through brutal force, the threat of death and destruction, did the Roman Church acquire it's 'Christian'stature. Likewise through brutal force, the threat of death and destruction, has the roman church maintained this dwindling position for hundreds of years, succeeding in places and failing in others, so that through time it has assumed this role in the minds and daily lives of generation after generation, even though it actually is not.
Christians fought the roman church and died for your freedom long before America was discovered. Christians brought us the first printing presses, bibles, books and schools, much to the distress of the roman church. Christians crossed the oceans much to the distress of the Roman church, which has never had a navy that I am aware of, and in that way, almost fully succeeded in liberating themselves from it. Yet the roman church languishes on, and it's followers and patrons continue upon insisting that they represent the one true faith and non-christians continue to believe it because it is such a propoganda machine. So much of the age old anti-christian agenda is rooted right within the walls of the catholic church itself, Christians are the one group of people that the roman church have never been able to fully control.
With all of that in mind, study your timelines and your mythologies together as far as you can go without a deeper spiritual understanding of the obvious forces behind many of those mythologies which will become evident if you truly endeavor to study it, but do not equate or confuse Catholicism or it's teachings with Christianity. And likewise do not fail to understand and investigate the role of the roman church throughout history and in politics even today.
SS, kindly stick that response on the god thread or wherever it fits . Never said a word about Catholics. Ah always try an apologise where necessary. Ah do apologize for mah thoughts for ya right now, but that's mostly to ma own self. Gettin mighty sick a bein dogged by your self importance. Linda, that film ain't goin nowhere, ( yep, Ah know that actually means it's goin SOMEwheres , which it is...) so take your time. Mah sister does a lot a ebayin an it's a hard days work, Ah can tell you that for sure. Good luck Again, Ah know Ah shouldn't respond to the provocations a SS, but could Ah please ask ya to buzz off unless ya got somethin non-divisive an worthwhile to add? We got it, you're smart, so's jill. To anabody who cares, Ah know theres Christians and christians, but that ain't what Ah'm on about here . Beginnin to think Ah owe that anon a big fat apology on the toxic world thread for poo-pooin his "here's a troll " comments. Especially in light a pointin out someone tryin to divert all the attention to themselves an a course, the bullyin. Ah may be a strong defender, but Ah try not to be an aggresser an Ah do truly apologize if Ah ever come off that way. Human kindness is the name a the game for this player, folks. An ma heroes say the same thing even knowing the world has a lot a evil doings .Doesn't mean somethings don't get ma goat, though.
Sorry, I forgot what this thread was about . . . Catholics are not Chrisitans . . . huh? Wait, no . . . I was talking about DMSA, eBay, and that film I want to watch. How come I keep getting the feeling I'm in the Twilight Zone when SS posts LOL.
HEY WORLD, So-Sick knew about ALL this in college!
Thanks for making my point though, that is is considered a rudimentary foundation curriculum for understanding. Which knowledge of, I should add, is not taught in publically funded schools, elementary, secondary, or post secondary, because it is antithetical and unprofitable to the powers that be.
I actually do not expect you to digest much of what i have said since you are obviously only now awakening to the fact that things are not as nice and simple as they seem as we crawl from our cribs to the schoolyard.
But given 3-5 years of more in-depth study you might be able to begin to discuss it intelligently, rather than accept everything that appeals to you at face value at the given moment while you are still in complete denial of your confusion.
not gonna sink to the bait... Anaways, if anabody hasn't already seen "Loose change", it's a 79 minute film about 911. It's prolly the best all-round film, but would be glad to hear otherwise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E3oIbO0AWE
I'd like to see a thread where SoSick and Jill debate with each other about how clever they are, what their qualifications are, and how the rest of the world is not as enlightened as them. Maybe the rest of us would get some peace.
What hate? Quite seriously I think you all need to lighten up just a bit.
Possibly.
But maybe you need to show a little more respect to your fellow posters by not constantly belitting them or filling your posts with vague indirect comments which come across as offensive to their reader.
Anyone who disagrees with me and thinks my assessment is wrong, do feel free to correct me.
I get the feeling you have a chip on your shoulder, manifested by way of subtle remarks which are often times not even related to the subject at hand but raised simply in hopes of aggravating the other poster. Maybe I'm wrong - but it does beg the question: why do I get this feeling in the first place?
I hate to say it, because I'm not a rude person at heart, but the proof is in the pudding. I'm not the only one who thinks you're being rude and nasty to others. Do you mean to say that we're all wrong? That somehow we've all misunderstood every one of your posts? Even if this were the case, and that we're simply misinterpreting your meaning, the fact that that is what we're all doing would suggest you need to adopt a different way of replying here. A lot of times I don't even know what you're talking about but get the eerie feeling that your words are secretly some semi-disguised (and other times blatant) insult. Maybe you don't feel that way, but if quite a few of us do then the problem still exists.
Sometimes we don't mean to be offensive to others but we come across that way regardless. It doesn't matter what our intentions may be but how our feelings are being perceived by others. If I'm rude and ornery and proclaim that nothing's wrong, that I'm in a perfectly good mood, so what if what I say is true? I'm still APPEARING rude and ornery and that's going to be translated by everyone else a certain way.
I'd like to see a thread where SoSick and Jill debate with each other about how clever they are, what their qualifications are, and how the rest of the world is not as enlightened as them. Maybe the rest of us would get some peace.
So much is lost in your desire for competitiveness. You may find that rude, you may find it offensive. I am not competing with you, I have no desire to compete with you. I am trying to tell you something and it is a difficult subject, both academically and emotionally, if you have never been exposed to it before. Rather than argue your points all day I would suggest you read some good history books from some good diverse perspectives and actually study the mythology you claim to know so much about.
Highly unlikely jill has any knowledge of symbolism predating written language and crossing language barriers as it used to manipulate people and define trends and cultures to this day since she has only a public school education. The only view she has ever presented is one of more or less total compliance with it in total ignorance of it, like yourself Linda.
You debate with her, you are more clever than I., you desire competition without regard to facts. You will need to be clever to dabate in that context.
I couldn't care less really. I gave you some good info there as you will discover perhaps someday, however what you do with it right now is up to you.
Right now I am biting my tongue and doing my best to be polite. I would appreciate it if you stopped addressing me as if I'm a baby, thanks very much. I'm also going to have a go at looking at Elvis' vid tonight, see what people have been talking about. The laughing-Elvis one he posted is really good.
SS : You're not trying to tell us a dang thing other than how smart y'all are, which is not very. Ya didn't start this discussion, it's another one Ah started an y 'all are hijackin as usual. Somewheres back y'all told us ya said Jesus came to you and told ya not to be so smart an ya threw your books out. Yall said He don't put so high a value on the intellectual blah-blah. An now, turns out you're a snob a the worst order. Jill an her public school education? Who desires competition? Ah'm tempted to say you an jill should rent a room an create the master race, but thats an offence to jill. An Ah do apologize for that. Everbody's marching out of step but my lil Johnny, did your mother say that about ya an that's why y'all don't get it when folks have told ya repeatedly we've had enough? "I couldn't care less, really" Then kindly GO AWAY Ya didn't really give any good info, ya just jumped on ma coattails, as usual. Could ya PM me a banishing spell PWCCA? Sorry, Ah'm mad, now.
not gonna sink to the bait... Anaways, if anabody hasn't already seen "Loose change", it's a 79 minute film about 911. It's prolly the best all-round film, but would be glad to hear otherwise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E3oIbO0AWE
Man you are gullible Id recommend you watching a soap opera, instead of watching the many videos of conspiracy theories with dramatic music and sketchy facts, it will be healthier for you.
Humans are inherently corrupt, all you need for proof of it is turn on the news for 10 minutes Nowadays everyone and their mothers can make a video and post it online, very professionally too, but that doesn't give anything to its credibility You don't need to go outside the realms of possibilities and start believing any crap posted online to prove a point, no matter how efficiently presented
These people probably watched Bill Nye the science guy and now think they are structural engineers and physics experts
SS : You're not trying to tell us a dang thing other than how smart y'all are, which is not very. Ya didn't start this discussion, it's another one Ah started an y 'all are hijackin as usual.
'cuse me? I didn't realize threads were owned by anyone. My mistake?
You are so steeped in crud you no longer recognize it Elvis, in fact you are a soapbox for it.
What college did you attend twenty five years ago and what have you done with your alleged education ?They should close that school because you are a moron. You rarely even make a point ,stupid or not , in your long rambling posts.
Respect, PWCCA. Thanks for stickin to the subject Kriminal. Your enthusiasm may encourage someone to watch that video. Glad to hear Ah got a soapbox. EUUUgh, gotta take a shower.
Your soapbox, in a nutshell directly, is your anti-christian sentiment which colors so much of your opinion. And since it's evident by now that you have only a basic understanding of Christianity and history in general, an understanding, or more properly often misunderstanding, that is quite evidently derived from the same position and source as these issues you are currently taking apparent objection to. Which does not leave much room for one from an external perspective to do much else but expect that likewise so much of your other thought is derived from that source also. You have made that quite clear in this thread as well as elsewhere whether or not you realize it.
In other words, you object to the machine without comprehending that you are part of the machine and thus have a propensity to contribute more to it's longevity than to it's demise.
Beag died, sorry. She came, she went, she will not resurrect. Her light has gone out. She is dead as a doornail and has no hope for salvation. Beag has been condemned and only her memory and a small spot beside her in the dust awaits her patrons.
Hi Jill, we missed you. SoSick, I suggest you go back and read Pwcca's post to you. He is always tactful and respectful in how he words things, which is more than can be said for a number of people on this forum. Watched the vid Elvis, have quite a few things to say. Not tonight though zzzzzz.
I resentbeing put in the same intellectual league as so-sick ,who is totally irrational.On my dumbest day, I'm smarter than her. If you are so smart Elvis , why can't you summarize the arguments re chemtrails , 911 conspiracy etc in a few paragraphs each rather than just saying watch these two hour videos.Can you give me some figures on barium exposure levels from chemtrails as opposed to composite fillings and other sources?Automobile exaust is far more pervasive and toxic than anything coming from the sky.
this could be an example that cilantro isnt good to take. mercury poisoning is very serious it can lead to all sorts of serious diseases and thinking that picking cilantro in the garden and eating it as you like can give you serious consequences. NDF is different, although i wouldnt trust the stuff myself, at least its controllable.
eating cilntro every day with amalgams in = brain damage
My understanding of christianity is that the bible says the earth is fixed , immobile which is why the pope and leaders of the church persecuted Keplar and Galileo for discovering that the sun was the center of the solar system and that the earth moved around the sun . Right now I'm traveling around the sun at 66000 miles/hr. As far as my public school education ,the last time I looked several public universities had top twenty law schools, including U of Michigan Ann Arbor, U of Texas at Austin , UCLA , UC Berkeley ,U of Virginia.Most of the schools in the bottom twenty are private schools .At the risk of being rude, I don't think you have a three digit IQ, unless there's a decimal point in there somewhere so-sick. What machine is Elvis apart of so-sick? You resort to name calling because you can't make a logical point.
Sorry for raggin on ya, jill. Point is, Ah know Ah ain't so-smart, thats why Ah'm postin the links . Funnily enough, Ah'd kinda like to know your opinion on the film. Just to be clear, Ah'm not at all an anti Christian person, it's just a "by their works shall ye know them " situation we got goin on here. Thing is, on the automobile fumes, welp, we know whats in em, and we know why, these chemtrails are another kettle a VERY stinky fish, an we have no knowledge a what it's for, other than what we have had to educate ourselves on. Ah'm not a big fan a covert activities. Thanks for askin what part a the machine, too.
Ya know, Ah just want to talk about real stuff, not this time wastin B.S. That's all Ah ask for. Ah don't try to make a fuss other than about where we all are in this messy ol world today an this other S(hite) S( tirring) nonsense offends our collective emotional intelligence.
My understanding of christianity is that the bible says the earth is fixed , immobile which is why the pope and leaders of the church persecuted Keplar and Galileo for discovering that the sun was the center of the solar system and that the earth moved around the sun . Right now I'm traveling around the sun at 66000 miles/hr. As far as my public school education ,the last time I looked several public universities had top twenty law schools, including U of Michigan Ann Arbor, U of Texas at Austin , UCLA , UC Berkeley ,U of Virginia.Most of the schools in the bottom twenty are private schools .At the risk of being rude, I don't think you have a three digit IQ, unless there's a decimal point in there somewhere so-sick. What machine is Elvis apart of so-sick? You resort to name calling because you can't make a logical point.
First of all, the 'church' as you describe it, I assume is the Catholic church. If the Catholic church is truly a 'Christian' church, please explain to me why owning a bible was considered a crime by the Catholic church until well after the reformation. Please explain also to me the meaning of it's flagrant and abundant use of occult and egyptian symbolism and where this fits in with biblical teachings.
The machine, the never ceasing propaganda machine.
I am sure there are some very fine state university law schools. My sister attended one also and seems to have learned quite a bit, so in fact I truly am sure of it. However, I do not recall discussing law schools in this thread so you can explain the correlation you are trying to make yourself as it seems fit.
I am not going to debate any issues with anyone. I simply would like some answers because it is clear you contend that my position is in error. I am open to that possibility. So, if you would please explain to me the items I have requested above, then that should begin to clear things up a bit.
Your 3 digit iq remark is funny, but if you know something I don't about these items I have presented because you are so very smart and 'educated', any of you, then please, by all means, make it plainly known rather than just continually heehawing about your brains and their sizes.
Btw, I have never come out and said it to you myself, but you are probably the rudest bunch of people I have ever met on the internet. I am not exaggerating. I have generally taken your attempts at smearing with a grain of salt due to my knowledge of your illnesses. But... Don't dish it out if you can't take it. An old colloquialism for the well versed english teachers and lawyers, you should have learned it long ago.
Anyway, back to the matter at hand, the propoganda machine and it's parts... and the important questions as pertains to the very first post of this thread and your immediate replies:
First of all, the 'church' as you describe it, I assume is the Catholic church. If the Catholic church is truly a 'Christian' church, please explain to me why owning a bible was considered a crime by the Catholic church until well after the reformation. Please explain also to me the meaning of it's flagrant and abundant use of occult and egyptian symbolism and where this fits in with biblical teachings.
When I said you two ought to duke it out, I meant on ANOTHER thread. SoSick I thought you implied you were above such things?
Gimme a break, Catholics aren't Christians? Well that's news to the rest of the world. You worship the same god, don't you? Protestantism might be your cup of tea but it stemmed from Catholocism. Christianity stemmed from Judaism, are you going to condemn them next? If you want to quibble about how Catholics do their stuff then fine, but why do it here?
I am not going to debate, and that is not an answer, it is personal opinion which leads to debate. The question is simply:
First of all, the 'church' as you describe it, I assume is the Catholic church. If the Catholic church is truly a 'Christian' church, please explain to me why owning a bible was considered a crime by the Catholic church until well after the reformation. Please explain also to me the meaning of it's flagrant and abundant use of occult and egyptian symbolism and where this fits in with biblical teachings.
Just answer the question without attempting to debate personal opinion please.
I guess I'm a little slow on the uptake, but it took me a while to work out what the vid was getting at: Christianity, then 9/11, then economics . . . oh right, these are all big conspiracies. Took me about an hour and a half but I got there in the end LOL.
I have mixed feelings about the non-religious parts of the vid. As others have said here, actual facts seem a bit lacking. Each one of these topics really needs a lot more time and investigation than this vid gives. Before making firm decisions about anything I always like to hear both sides of the argument, and weigh up in my mind which seems more plausible.
I wouldn't put it past those in power to kill their own people. It happened in Nazi Germany. Were certain events, like the sinking of the Lusitania and Pearl Harbor, and even 9/11, set up so that the subsequent wars could be justified? Maybe. I wouldn't rule it out.
However, I also think that there are a lot of Americans who find it hard to believe that their country could be vulnerable, that awful things out of their control really can happen. More comforting in some ways to believe that it's an inside job, not done by "people in caves," as someone put it. There are even undertones of racism here, because of course no one else in the world is clever or strong enough to be able to commit these atrocities are they -- it had to be Americans themselves.
There are good arguments on both sides. I think we need to be vigilant and always question. We are certainly in trouble if we let outselves be herded around like sheep.
About the segment on Christianity? I can see the point that is trying to be made here, but I feel that only a rabid atheist who was totally devoid of any shred of spirituality would put it together and present it in this way. I have a lot of problems with it.
It is totally focused on the ancient Western world. India is mentioned a few times but they had contact with the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, etc. What about (the rest of) Africa, China, the Americas? Were the people who made the vid afraid that if they investigated sun-god religions there, that they would not fit the mold they were trying to create? Probably, but only because they had such a narrow-minded agenda, which seemed to be to show that Christianity is a "myth," meaning it is untrue, and that it was perpetuated simply to be an opiate for the masses. Religion can, and is, used for this purpose, but it is not its only purpose, and there actually are religious people who are intelligent enough not to take that approach with it.
The word "myth" used to mean a universal truth. Interesting how semantics work. There are actually a lot of universal truths in the religions of the world. That's where this vid really misses the point. It shows that Christianity was born from several different ancient religions, and goes on to conclude that because of this it is factually untrue, and therefore a big con. It doesn't consider that there are other kinds of truth, like truths about the nature of human existence.
Does it matter so much HOW the symbols in modern religions came to be? What's important is what those symbols mean to people, then and now. Maybe saints with haloes and Jesus on the cross have their roots in astrology and sun-worship, I think that's very likely, but they mean different things to people today and that's legitimate for them.
I also think it's rather selective and spurious reasoning to try to tie absolutely everything in ancient religions to astrology. For example, the themes of the virgin birth, the death of the hero and his resurrection. These are very potent themes in many myths going back a very long time. The myth of the hero's journey through life and death is something that resonates deep in the psyche because it is about the journey of life that we all embark on. The virgin birth can have the function of establishing the divinity or other-worldliness of the hero. Death and rebirth are metaphorical symbols for so many aspects of life that it would be impossible to list them all. How very narrow-minded to contrain these things to astrology. If the ancients knew their astrology and astronomy, then why construct whole religions around them? Easier just to use your observatories and a calendar.
I have to say that when I started learning about Christianity's roots in other religions, my eyes shot wide open and I began to question everything I was taught in my cossetted Sunday school classes, where we were never taught anything about what anyone else in the world believed. That was my path, to leave that behind and search for more universal truths. But it is not everybody's path, and I respect that. I don't think it's right to simplistically try to demolish people's beliefs by saying look, it's all just a code for astrology.
Finally, I did not like the sardonic atheist speaker with his applauding audience. It's a classic straw man tactic to belittle your opponent's position and then ridicule it. I find this tactic stupid, distasteful and bigoted. Cartoons of God in the sky shouldn't have any place here. Ken Hovind used the same tactic in the vid I saw him in, using cartoon mockeries of what he was presenting as Darwinist beliefs. Anyone who does this kind of thing, whether I agree with their actual point or not, is going to draw my instant dislike and criticism.
Well thanks for getting me to think there Elvis. I haven't got a lot of time for long vids, especially with the eBaying, would rather read some links. But anything that keeps my brain working is welcome.
Thank you Linda, the whole point is to think. Ah know the video was deeply flawed, but it raises some important questions. . Ah think if we don't think, we're doomed by our own lack a willingness to open our eyes an open our mouths.
Call me old fashioned, Ah just feel purty uneasy knowin the "people "in control a law-makin , money makin, an war makin , yep, International world leaders, all get together in Northern California for a couple a weeks a satanic rituals every summer. An the public face a these folks is they are sposed to be Christians.
For anabody still inerested, try the "loose change" film. It's a much better fact-based 911 film, an many a the facts are easily varifiable. Ah think the religion part a the Z. film is just to make a point how we seem to have a long standin maybe subconscious template to be predisposed for a solar/son religion an it subsequently makes folks easy to indoctrinate. Yep, cuz they stop thinkin an hand over their power, an everbody knows, power corrupts.
First of all, the 'church' as you describe it, I assume is the Catholic church. If the Catholic church is truly a 'Christian' church, please explain to me why owning a bible was considered a crime by the Catholic church until well after the reformation.
I can help out with this one. The reason is because in this time period the powers that be did not want just anyone being literate. For this reason alone it wasn’t that the bible per se that was banned, simply being able to read and write was. If they tell the people what the bible says, then the people do as they say – less people thinking for themselves equates to less people attempting to usurp their power. It was in no way a religious gesture, it was entirely about power. We may as well be talking about the church having put a ban on the Cat in the Hat. The end point is still the same. Consolidation of power, monitoring literacy.
Furthermore, you seem to be accusing the modern church for its historical actions. That's like pointing the finger at the Germany of today for its sins of yesterday. They're not even the same entity anymore. Would you accuse someone for what their great-great grandfather did?
Your argument would have more clout if the bible were still illegal today, as you allege it was in the past. If you want to say they aren't this or they aren't that, then use current examples.
Good point Pwcca, I believe this is also why mass was said in Latin for so long. The church back then was a much more powerful political entity than it is today and it had everything to lose by people becoming educated and knowledgeable.
Can you all stop the amateur philosophy stuff? The name of this forum is "Amalgam Fillings - Mercury Poisoning" in case you have forgotten.If I wanted to read about religion, ecology, personal beliefs etc. I would go to the relevant forum. What you all insist on arguing about is undermining (what I understand to be ) the original purpose of this forum. Let's get back to basics, else the reason we all joined this forum, i.e. our common symptoms and suffering, will be pushed aside and we won't get the help and advice which is why we joined in the first place.
My point exactly. I've had two hours sleep, been gardening for four hours, feeling like crap. I don't mind the discussions, but the bitching is really wearing thin. Christians, Catholics, whether the world is round or flat, we're suppose to be on here caring, supporting, loving and helping each other. This is where my not understanding religion stems from, surely it dosen't matter whatever you believe in, labelling yourself and then arguing and bitching dosen't seem to follow. Please all of you forget the differences, anyone religious or not should be showing their fellow sufferers kindness and understanding. I don't personally believe this arguing to and fro is doing anybody's healing process any good. I'm not trying to be insulting to any one of you, but surely your not helping your own healing with this trivial bickering. Tracy
Yep, the bickerin wastes energy, an we've been robbed of enough health an energy by the people who saw fit to turn a blind eye to knowingly implantin neurotoxins in our heads. So, Ah just got to thinkin, how could this happen? Ah mean ,what kinda people make policies, like the FDA, ADA, etc. that don't care about the majority a the population., i.e. US. Ah'm just tryin to show here why an how these people operate , what they value (power, money, an more power )an their greater works. An how it happens is neatly demonstrated RIGHT here, by folks like us who ought to be stickin together, (differences allowed for) tearin each other down in the name a religion. Ah really don't want to be partakin a that argument. Ah just want folks to get together an say we've had enough. Was tryin to show the big bullies in the world, turns out , exposed it amongst ourselves. What hope have we got. P.S. anon, not bein funny, but by the looks of it, y'all haven't actually joined yet. It's nice to have a handle to respond to .
Sorry Elvis, I did not check out the link because my computer is on dial up and takes me FOREVER to watch anything. But whatever it was? It seems to have set something off here and it takes little to no bait to get people started on the anti religion putdown mode. In fact it's meat and drink to them.
It's hard to recommend this forum to other people when this stuff is beginning to occur more and more. Becoming a common feature of the forum. Yet it seems a case of a few spoiling (or soiling) it for the many.
You guys have so much to offer the rest of the time, it seems a great pity you feel the need to dissect or patronise someone's religion in the process whenever the opportunity arises. Also if you dont see people getting on here and debating with your ideas, dont mistake silence for acceptance or that you got it "right". Try and consider the idea that others are concentrating on getting well and attempting to steer clear of this kind of stress. Most are probably sick and tired of it (literally).
Didn't we get our fill on the God thread? Why continue leaking it into other threads.... I absolutely agree with anon and Tracy, this forum is not a vehicle to be constantly used or abused in this manner. Rather it should be steered back to what it was created for and to continue to do this is doing a disservice to others on this forum. This forum has more freedom than any other I belong to. This isn't a bad thing, but unfortunately as is often the case, it is too easily taken advantage of and a great opportunity for people to take side swipes at others (however "politely" done) usually insulting someone else's faith or intelligence in the process. As is the intent as you can see.
When I first came to this forum, I was surprised at how many times people got off the subject of the original thread. When I questioned it, I was more or less ignored. I came to see that people here seem to like to talk about all kinds of things, though of course the vast majority of them are still about mercury and how it relates to health (and sickness). I like to think that if a thread is about mercury it can stay that way; and if a thread is clearly about something else, those who are not interested don't have to read it.
In having the freedom to talk about different things here, I've found a bit of relief from the relentless depression. There are things people say here that make me think. I love talking about life in general and all its aspects, philosophy, spirituality, etc. I actually did go off and try to find forums dedicated to these things, but none of the ones I found suited my needs, not by a long shot. I wouldn't have fitted in or enjoyed being there much.
However, if this many people don't like this kind of thing, maybe there really is a problem that needs addressing. Who decides what's appropriate here and what isn't? Should we ask Russ? I personally would feel low if I were told I had to stick to talking about mercury and nothing else, but it is not for me alone to dictate the topics here. Bearing that in mind, if he feels it is OK to talk about his brand of Christianity and creationism, I think other voices ought to have the chance to be heard as well.
Ah'm just hopin people question the motivation of a persons postin on here an how that person makes us feel. Where Ah'm comin from is a place of care an concern for ordinary people an the planet we live on in this increasingly corrupt/toxic world. Illnesses caused ultimately by lies an greed have disenfranchised many people here an Ah don't like that.
It ain't right that people have been made so ill, like you Bex, Tracy, Sandi, an other folks too toxic to think right, like Benza, an severely depressed people like Dental Hooly, VegMom with chemtrails overhead, all a these people may well be the folks who'd make a fuss but are just too fried tryin to heal. Why should we have to live like this ? As soon as we chelate one poison, we gotta fight off a new improved one. Ah smell a rat Ah'm mad about mercury toxicity chemtrails makin ma family sick Big Farma The audacity a 911 The REAL economy, an what drives it The MEDIA Ah believe in "Know Thine Enemy" Don't want to upset anabody, don't like the fightin, just thought those of us with a lil energy might want to fight back through knowledge instead a roll over an play dead, we will be soon enough.
Ah mean, how'd we get on this forum in the first place? Yep, if folks just want the nuts an bolts a detox, maybe it's time Ah packed a bag Peace,one day, but not here on Earth if we don't challenge right from wrong.
P.S. SS, Y'all can say ma soap box is made a crud but Ah hope Ah don't make people feel like it. If Ah do, Ah'm failin.
I agree with what you are saying Elvis. I think talking about the things you mention links in well with mercury. From the time all of us woke up and discovered that there was poison in our mouths, it's been a matter of facing one painful truth after another.
I've been asking myself what would happen if, for example, lots of people here were keen of football and kept wanting to talk about it. You'd go to a thread and, say, find people getting onto yet another football discussion. How would I feel? Like rolling my eyes maybe. I might make a bit of a humorous comment. And I'd go and read another thread. I suppose it would be a bit of a bizarre situation if that were happening. I don't feel that religion and philosophy can be equated with that though. What is wrong with talking about the deeper things in life? They apply to us all. I put a lot of heart into my post here and I've found that all it seems to have done was hack people off.
Russ quotes the Bible everywhere here. Should this be a "fundamentalists only -- others need not apply" forum? I try very hard not to step on people's toes and to respect their beliefs. However, I also have to ask myself how far I am willing to go down that direction and be silent about my own beliefs. Sometimes the need to challenge what is being said, or what I perceive to be ignorance, is very great. And I am also happy to learn from people in turn, because I am thankful for every new bit of information that leads me closer to the truth.
I'm still not sure what the answer is. There is a separate area here where creationists talk. Maybe there could be a separate area for conspiracy theories or religion. However ,these topics do creep in; it would be a shame to censor everything here not exclusively related to mercury.
I can help out with this one. The reason is because in this time period the powers that be did not want just anyone being literate. For this reason alone it wasn’t that the bible per se that was banned, simply being able to read and write was. If they tell the people what the bible says, then the people do as they say – less people thinking for themselves equates to less people attempting to usurp their power. It was in no way a religious gesture, it was entirely about power. We may as well be talking about the church having put a ban on the Cat in the Hat. The end point is still the same. Consolidation of power, monitoring literacy.
No, owning a bible, especially in the vernacular, was definitely a crime. People were burned at the stake for it. The Cat in the Hat never made the list. I included some info in the bible links below. You can easily research more on the internet.
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Furthermore, you seem to be accusing the modern church for its historical actions. That's like pointing the finger at the Germany of today for its sins of yesterday. They're not even the same entity anymore. Would you accuse someone for what their great-great grandfather did?
They are very much the same entity. I included some info in the bible links below. You can easily research more on the internet.
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Your argument would have more clout if the bible were still illegal today, as you allege it was in the past. If you want to say they aren't this or they aren't that, then use current examples.
Current legislation in Canada and now the USA will make it illegal to use certain biblical references and passages, defining them as 'hate speech'. I included some info in the bible links below. You can easily research more on the internet.
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Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
Isn’t that a bit like calling the kettle black?
Pwcca, they were arguing just like this long before I ever arrived at this board, it has nothing to do with me, or even you personally. It is what happens here. Read some of the older links. I have only been here since April.
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I am not going to debate
When were you going to stop then?
I am not debating, I am not interested in personal opinion so much as historical fact. Our opinions are many times corrupted by misinformation or simple lack of information, thus we become all little parts of the propoganda machine. I am simply providing information regarding 'this corrupt world'. Thanks for your answer, it is an intelligent one, compared to the moaning and groaning, even though I am not in full agreement with it.
I have nothing against Catholics btw, I am fully aware of the fact that there are many wonderful and believing Christans in that church. If I have been misunderstood as 'labeling' catholics, I apologize. I never did so and never meant to give that impression. I am discussing the church as a political entity, not the persons who attend there and generally do not take the time to investigate certain issues. However, it might be wise for them to realize how conditioned they are to not seek any knowledge past that which is directed to them from 'the church'. There are Christians in the Catholic church, but the Catholic church is not Christian. Most Christians within it today were born into it and the means by which the faith of many their forefathers was forced and secured has been long forgotten.
This is not a dig at Catholics, this is an attempt to show that religion, politics, and corruption are inseperable, even today. The idea of corruption of course, depends upon your point of view.
And I do hope you browse the links and do more of your own research. There is more information on the internet than any public or college library could ever hope to hold. Educating yourselves is simply a click way. No need to pay tuition.
Religion, poiltics, and corruption are inseparable. You cannot discuss fully discuss one while turning a blind eye to the other, especially today with so much talk of the NWO. Symbolism is crucial in identifying relationships and demonstrating the easy manupulation of those who are accustomed to it without understanding it's deeper meaning.
THE VATICAN'S HOLOCAUST The sensational account of the most horrifying religious massacre of the 20th century by Baron Avro Manhattan, Library of Congress catalog card number: 86-062016 First printing, 1986 http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/ww2/book/Manhattan-vatican.html
That's quite a catalogue of hate. I suppose it belongs in this thread if you are saying that the Catholic church do the conspiracy stuff as well as other powers that be. Histrically this is absolutely undeniable. Of course they wanted to maintain their power over people and prevent them from learning the truth. And no doubt the Vatican is as secretive as any government on earth. They do not, however, have the power over people's lives that they used to. There have been times when to be anything other than Catholic meant execution. There have also been times when to be anything other than Protestant meant execution. People here in Europe have long memories and most are rather tired of sectarian disputes leading to war and strife.
I sense more here than just a desire to discuss past wrongs of the Catholic church though. These links contain some pretty extreme statements. Whether or not you wanted to study them in depth, I guess my question is, why is the implication here that the Catholic church is the bad guy (i.e. not even "Christian") and all other Christians the good guys? Protestants just haven't had the time, or quite the opprotunity yet, to catch up. But they are trying. Case in point, the rise of the religious right in the US and its continual forays into the politics of power. If they had their way they would ban abortion, make homosexuality a crime or a mental illness (as it once was seen), teach creationism in every school, and suffuse the whole government with Christian fundamentalist dogma, getting rid of what little there is left of separation between church and state. Maybe you would like to see this and would call it good. Plenty of other people feel their blood run cold at the thought.
I'm not quite sure about the point you want to make regarding symbols. Every religion has symbols. Protestant religions like Calvinism attempted to strip these symbols away, no doubt in pursuit of an ideal that is closer to the plain and simple truth. I find imagery and icons rich and spiritually stimulating. So what if many Christian symbols have their roots elsewhere. Maybe this would only bother you if you were trying to "prove" that Christian sects that use symbology (i.e. almost all of them to some degree) are blasphemous because they are tainted with paganism. My point of view is that cultures influence each other and they always borrow ideas from each other. I don't see a division bewteen paganism-bad/Christianity-good. To me they are all religions.
Why isn't there this depth of feeling about truly harmful cults? I read the biography of L. Ron Hubbard. Now there's a really whacko way of life, and it's got a number of celebrities endorsing it. Other cults induce people to give up their families, their money, their very lives. If you're going to dig around for religions that harm people, why not start there?
Without gettin too involved, point is, it's not the everday Catholic who may well have a spiritual relationship with their God, Jesus or more likely the BVMary, it's the money behind the scenes ,an there truly is a worryin amount a power an deep dark political connections not to mention the massive social control goin on there. This is in no way to cause offense to any Catholics. It's basically just like the Masons, the lower orders / followers may be the best meanin people in the world, but at the top , it's a different story, nor do Ah wish to fan any flames here. Ah am askin folks to look at power structures an decide for ourselves if ya want to take back some a the power by thinkin afresh about stuff that goes on under our noses unchallenged. Without a combative atmosphere folks may be more inclined to think more. Anaways, looks like the Jesuits are top dog. No offense to the small folks . Ya know, turns out Ah've been goin around in the mistaken belief that ma suit was anti-inflamatory.
Linda, you really need to read the links before coming to those judgements. Most of them are quite unbiased. It's simply easier to start at the top and work down than it is to start in the middle and go in circles.
People use symbols for various reasons, some are conscious decisions, some aren't. But if you are trying to say that religious leaders such as the popes and other powerful evangelicals, and people making these decisions within govt institutions are not educated or conscientious in that regard you will have a very difficult time persuading me.
In your case, you may use a certain symbol for whatever reason simply because you are accustomed to it, you are comfortable with it, you've seen it a lot, it's ingrained in your memory. In that regard, even though it's an unconscious decision, it could tell me quite a bit about you. Where you are from, some of your cultural beliefs, etc. In the case of me wanting to manipulate you, I could build a webpage, use the symbols that I know you are accustomed to and comfortable with, offer you a product and know that you will probably be likewise comfortable dealing with my company even though my products aren't the best. Chances are good you will have more confidence in my company because it's designs and visuals 'feel' so familar to you, and even comfort you. In the case of more subversive tactics, I could use those same symbols to even possibly hurt you when you least expect it or even use them to even entice you to do something you, as an innocent person, normally would not do.
People are extremely visually orientated, whether they are literate or illiterate. And the more accustomed we are to certain symbols, or rituals for that matter, the less likely we are to reject them, even when they represent evil or some form of it that we, as the general public, are not fully aware of. People make associations based on visual imagery. Try painting a big swastika on your car and driving around London. see what kind of reaction you get from various different groups of people. Tatoo a very visible serpent on your arm and see if that helps you get the teaching job you desire. Then try painting a cruxifix on your arm and see if that help makes certain other people more receptive to you.
I have no idea what the NWO and it's proposed WCC church will do with the muslims. A lot of Christians may be bait but the muslims will never accept merging with people of diverse beliefs. I think sometimes that the fire we see in their current movement which is really taking on life among them, even in it's extreme forms, is really something to watch in that regard. In a certain sense, they appear to provide the largest like-minded and united body to fight the WCC. On the other hand I also wonder if they aren't being setup for slaughter at some future point and the rest of the world will sigh in likewise anticipated and setup relief and not raise a finger to help them because of the recent behavior of their extreme factions.
This is anti Catholic propaganda and usually the best place to find it is the net. The ones purporting it are quite fanatical in their hatred. You can find anything you're looking for when you're against something and be completely convinced by what you're reading.
There is such a thing as spiritual pride in this kind of fanatical hatred. Study your own faith and bible to get the truth. Be wary of blindly accepting and buying into someone's hate compaign. I did this myself many times.
One of the commandments warns against bearing false witness. Peole should be very careful what they take onboard and spread. Sosick would probably have a collection of these things ready to back up her hatred that she can pull out at the drop of a hat. Im much more impressed by the way people truly live their lives. Not in those that spread discord and hatred and proclaim to be Christian at the sametime. If you seek the bad, you will find it and pictures are usually used to make it even more convincing. Just take a look at the cigarette thread on here and you'll see how easy it is. Corruption is everywhere in every organisation and Christians are no exception. Evangalists and the like. Plenty of real bad ones out there. But dont forget the good who do truly live according to their faith. They are the ones that get on with it, rather than sit and seeth and find fault in other churches. They are the ones who draw others to Christ through their actions.
Elvis, I think you misunderstood what I meant , I hope so anyway cos I actually think your a great guy and I want nothing more than to get well. I wasnt saying people dont have a right to discussions on different topics and Im always eager to read and learn more. The stuff about chemtrails is fascinating stuff. I hope I'm only as toxic as some of you and had no intention of trying to say anything but yes debate whatever,it's just the falling out with each other I don't like. That's just my personality and always has been. I just believe we can all give our own opinions about anything we choose and we won't always agree with others opinions, and this obviously isn't directed personally at you. I just feel we could do it without the needless falling out and bickering. As I said originally,my intention wasn't to insult anyone and I also did say I believe you all have intellingent comments to make. I'm sorry I just don't like the falling out. Hope your not falling out with me too now Elvis, because I had no intention for that to happen. Love and peace Tracy x P.S. Cn we also remember that Sandi deserves mega respect as shes fighting Cancer at the same time with bavery and courage and is a very nice lady and she hasnt even posted on this thread. As I said peace to everyone Tracy
I think Sandi is doing a magnificent job Tracy. I suppose she hasn't posted on this thread because she's not interested in doing so. A fair few people have said they don't like what's being said here. I don't think anyone actually likes it when people bicker. I do like discussing some of the ideas here though. I'm not going to go to other threads and subversively try to get off-the-topic discussions going but I can't see that there's any harm in talking about various things here, I think some interesteing points have been raised.
SoSick I agree about the power of symbolism, and how it can be used to manipulate. Do I think the Vatican is actively doing this? To be honest it doesn't interest me. The biggest threat I think they pose to anybody is in the way they keep telling Catholics not to use birth control. Thereby ensuring a plentiful supply of fertile Catholic families, and all the ensuing problems of poverty, sexually transmitted diseases, etc. My father's family ended up being dirt-poor and unable to support their youngest children because they followed the teachings about birth control.
I also think that governments and the media are where we really need to be conscious of the manipulative use of symbols, as well as various brainwashing techniques that Elvis' vid touches on, e.g. the way everyone is now convinced that many things are necessary to do because of this "war on terror," including stripping civil liberties away.
I've lost some heart in this discussion though, it has to be said. I don't want people I respect on this forum not wanting to talk to me because they think I'm going to try to stir up dissent or tear down their religious beliefs.
Naw, Tracy, never took offense, knew ya enough to know there was none intended. Ah took your points entirely. Like Ah said, Ah hate the arguments, too. An Ah regret bein drawn into em. Sadly, Ah was lookin for solidarity amongst folks well enough to stand together and say, what all can we do not to be victims all over again? Just "say no to chemtrails" don't see that workin. When did anabody last see the sun here in Blighty? Genuinely curious
Thanks Elvis, gottcha. Don't know where you live, I'm in Leicestershire, bang in the midlands. Funny you should mention about sunny days, cos yesterday for the first time in ages we had the most fantastic scorching day, terrific blue sky and so far looks like it's going to be the same today. Even managed a barbecue yesterday and sat outside to eat late evening. But we did notice the chemtrails, cos the sky was so cloudless. Never even bothered to think about it before. Remember the doc once saying to me ,cos all my kids suffered from asthma as young children, but fortunately all outgrew it, that the Midlands was the worst place for asthma because we are kind of in a hollow and when it gets damp all the crap lingers low down near the floor. Best wishes Tracy x
Anaways, this all just did NOT go the way Ah'da hoped, so Ah'm droppin outta this one an put ma efforts elsewhere where folks feel the sense a urgency Ah do an already have a useful dialogue goin on . Blame ma bad temperedness on frustration, but Ah ws a fool in the wrong place as some folks said. Shoulda known when ma anti -spam graphics spelled out "naive". Never intended to get inta religious putdowns. Ah am a bit stupid, it's true. Sorry ya have the chemtrailin goin on, there, Tracy. It just ain't right.
SoSick I agree about the power of symbolism, and how it can be used to manipulate. Do I think the Vatican is actively doing this? To be honest it doesn't interest me. The biggest threat I think they pose to anybody is in the way they keep telling Catholics not to use birth control. Thereby ensuring a plentiful supply of fertile Catholic families, and all the ensuing problems of poverty, sexually transmitted diseases, etc. My father's family ended up being dirt-poor and unable to support their youngest children because they followed the teachings about birth control.
I also think that governments and the media are where we really need to be conscious of the manipulative use of symbols, as well as various brainwashing techniques that Elvis' vid touches on, e.g. the way everyone is now convinced that many things are necessary to do because of this "war on terror," including stripping civil liberties away.
I think I would agree with all of that wholeheartedly.
But I also think it's important to keep in mind that the Catholic church was once fully and still attempts to be, the overseer of the Holy Roman Empire, which was not all that long ago.
First Caesar was god, with his treasure trove of mythological other gods assumed along the way... but Christians refused to worship caeser... then the pope became god in caesar's place when the roman empire started becoming dysfunctional and became the holy roman empire carrying the cross representing it's newest addition of Jesus added to the treasure trove of gods picked up over the centuries to unite the religious beliefs of the people it conquered. This is the same cross, metaphorically, that the romans previously used to punish and execute the enslaved indigenus peoples it conquered, now perceived by many to represent the christian faith.
Christianity is not rooted in Egpyt or Babylon, it is rooted in Israel, with the hebrews, who have always been diametrically opposed to babylonian religions, and whose teachings implore not to mix beliefs.
Catholicism is a religion of many hats and it is no wonder that so many people from that church think that god is a myth and legend. In Catholicism, god is a myth and legend. In Catholicism, only the pope is infallible.
Anyway, and this is not directed at you Linda, unfortunately it's not possible to separate the Catholic church from politics and world events even to this day. If you choose to ignore history and the violent bloody and deceitful means that have been used by the roman empire, the holy roman empire, and now curently what may be known as the NWO in it's place, to secure wealth, territory and enslave people, that is your perogative.
I did say, though, that if any of this is true about the Catholic church, it is also true of many other world leaders, including some religious groups. Try to deny that the American religious right don't want the power to be able to set up a theocracy and strip any non-believers of rights, including citizenship.
I think I might duck out of here along with Elvis to be honest. These things may be worth discussing in some context, but maybe not here, and a lot of people are getting ticked off by it.
I don't claim to have all the answers. I see what I see and know what I know about it. I have been watching things unfold for over 25 years, as an adult. I do know for sure, one of the easiest and most certain ways to connect the dots is through the emblems and visual images these different groups represent themselves with. Of that I am sure. Their words are not always honest (they cannot tell you the truth or you would run), their actions do speak for themselves.
My concern in this discussion within this thread is the common idea that Catholicism represents all of Christianity. Often that idea offends many Christians, just as it's opposing idea that Catholicism is not Christianity, offends Catholics. Hopefully I have helped you understand why many Christians do hesitate to include the Catholic church within the realm of Christian belief. And likewise, help you to not be manipulated by groups using rhetoric, including those same symbols and emblems which cross the language barrier to either define their true intent or appeal to different people, conjoining diverse ideologies together in the hearts and minds of us often uniformed commoner peasants simply for their own gain.
Technology in the past 20 years is rapidly increasing the timeline of world events, our awareness of them and also the influence of certain ideas. If there was ever a time to know what you can can of history and pay attention to current events, it's now.
Bankers and their corporations sit at the very top of the human pyramid right now, and most of us work for and are beholden to them in one way or another, through credit cards, mortgages, govt influence, perhaps even our jobs. The Catholic church has enormous assets compared to the rest of the christian community.
I am a christian and i truly have heard nothing about the American religious right wanting the power to be able to set up a theocracy and strip any non-believers of rights, including citizenship.
I would not favor a theocracy. Theocracy is what led to the inquisitions of the holy roman empire, not to mention the 'dark ages'. I think you'd find most christians actually abhore such an idea. I cannot speak for Cathoilcs however. I know there is some talk of that here and there within the LDS category of christianity, another group most bible believing Christians do not view as actually christian due to rather diverse and strange beliefs and connections to masonry (and huge numbers of children to quickly help enlarge themselves), but using the ideas of christianity to promote itself benignly.
Masonry is common within certain parts of the christian community and certainly plays in there, but that brings us back to learning how to recognize people by their emblems. A lot of masons are unaware of the history and meaning of theior insignias, so they are not shy about using them. They are not difficult to spot and are tied back in toward egypt and babylon and non-christian ideas of empires and dominance promoted originally by certain factions of the (babylonian-eygptian-roman) cathoilc church in the days of the holy roman empire.
As for most bible believing christians, Jesus himself said, my kingdom is not of this world.
- Also, I wanted to add, a good reply to the catholic church regarding birth control might be, that if God wants you to have children certainly birth control will not stop him. Getting them to believe that is another matter though.
- Also, I wanted to add, a good reply to the catholic church regarding birth control might be, that if God wants you to have children certainly birth control will not stop him. Getting them to believe that is another matter though.
More like a terrible reply, I know you look both ways when you cross the street, if God didn't want you to die why even bother looking? why go to the doctor if God can cure you? Your view interferes with free will
What is the difference between cults and the church? Both are based on brainwashing techniques, long repetitive lectures , faith rather than logic, isolation from those opposed to the beliefs of the group, blind trust in the authority of charismatic leaders, long hours of mind numbing prayer,a seige mkentality, ready made decisions and friends,rigid moral judgments of non-members,more rules than a gulag,ostracism of people who are independant thinkers.
Margaret Singer is considered the top mind on cults . She was twice nominated for a nobel prize and has written books on cults. Not many graduates of top universities (public or private) are reigious fanatics because they come to realize that noone's imaginary friend in the sky is better than another's and because science proves major religions to be fairy tales. So-sick is an unthinking cog in the machine of the church
When you imply that Elvis and others are manipulated by the machine, you imply we are conventional , conservative conforming people with no analytical ability and if that were the case we would'nt be complaining about hg poisoning ,pollution etc.
- Also, I wanted to add, a good reply to the catholic church regarding birth control might be, that if God wants you to have children certainly birth control will not stop him. Getting them to believe that is another matter though.
More like a terrible reply, I know you look both ways when you cross the street, if God didn't want you to die why even bother looking? why go to the doctor if God can cure you? Your view interferes with free will
I think free will would imply the choice was mine, whether wrong or right in God's eyes, Kriminal.
God has cured me. And I never should have gone to the dentist that was a bad idea of mine, not his.
Margaret Singer is considered the top mind on cults . She was twice nominated for a nobel prize and has written books on cults. Not many graduates of top universities (public or private) are reigious fanatics because they come to realize that noone's imaginary friend in the sky is better than another's and because science proves major religions to be fairy tales. So-sick is an unthinking cog in the machine of the church
My dear dear Jill,
Concerning God, Margaret Singer once told someone this "Just look up to the sky and talk to God yourself. You don't need an organization to do that." She believed in God herself, Jill. She was Catholic.
Are you just a first year pre-law student or something? I have to ask, because you don't seem to have much of a sense of discovery or research, and a terrible sense of diplomacy. I just somehow do not see you lasting 10 minutes in a courtroom even with your college peers. Your presentation and demeanor are terrible. Is that what they teach at Berkeley or is it why you are still in school?
I think you'll find Margaret's writings pretty much in agreement with everything I have said here.
Perhaps even her methods can help you unwash your own mind from being unable to see beyond itself, television, and the walls of Berkeley.
There is some info about her at Factnet.org
And Look! They even have a Catholic sects section in their forum! Pretty much in fuill agreement with everything I have said here jill. Do you have a logical retort?
Sorry you guys I agree with Tracy, I know for a fact there are several people who use to frequent this forum with love and support, in order to help people, It was a place to visit to discuss useful and hepful hints. Discussions are fine, but you get the feeling now of being downtrodden and judged. I't is as pointed out spoilt. I feel for Tracy who has only been tactful and tried to help others and been brave enough to continue to dot his. Yea I've come on as Anon, cos Tracy was brave enough to come on always named. I'm disgusted at some of your blindess and complete dismissal of others feeling. I too feel now I can only post privately. What a shame we have been robbed of our safe haven. As Tracy pointed out it's not the discussions but the feeling of almost heated hatred betwen some of you. Look into your own hearts and think hard. Bless Tracy and the others, may they seek help and peace with each other. They will be sorely missed. I feel I have to come on as Anon,cos I'll experience the sagging off too. Be ashamed and grow up.
Why be an Anon? I don't think any sensible person would criticise what you say here. But I would also ask you to bear in mind that this is one thread, and a few posters, that seem to be upsetting people. If the unpleasantness in this specific area is upsetting then why are you reading it? I've also just written on another thread where Laura has made comments; my feeling is that there ought to be a main list that does stick very much to the topic of mercury, and another off-topic list, rather than the huge variety of other topic-specific lists here. Then when people went on the main list they would know there would be no threads like this one. I don't know what Russ would make of that but it seems to me to be a way of keeping most people happy.
SoSick said:
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. . . a terrible sense of diplomacy. I just somehow do not see you lasting 10 minutes in a courtroom even with your college peers. Your presentation and demeanor are terrible. Is that what they teach at Berkeley or is it why you are still in school?
Can't you see that this kind of talk is what is upsetting people here? How dare you come on a forum and flame people like this? You are taking advantage of the freedoms here and I can't imagine anyone enjoys reading these kinds of put-downs. If you want to do some mud-slinging with another member then please do it privately. I've lost interest in this thread myself; the topic is thought-provoking, but the childish bickering is just beyond the pale.
God has cured me. And I never should have gone to the dentist that was a bad idea of mine, not his.
As comforting as it may be for us to entomb ourselves within this sort of mind set, it is undeniably false.
No god cured you of your sickness, you and/or your body (and other external variables) did.
No god permitted Joseph Stalin to exterminate thousands upon thousands of people. Joseph Stalin did.
No god permitted all the holocausts throughout the world to take place, people did.
If it were otherwise, then what on Earth does that say about all the atrocities which happen in the world? All the butchered innocents of the world - are you daring to imply that some god has helped you but abandoned all these people? Unfortunate as it may be, things happen because they happen. It's just that simple.
And if the day came when your Christian god were proven real and that he's truly manipulating fate exactly as you imply (helping you but not helping others), that is the day I will lay all my devotion in the name of Lucifer. It may sound horrific for me to say so, but to me there is nothing more horrific than the offensive belief one's god has favored them and deliberately permitted the suffering and deaths of others (others who may even follow the same deity as you.)
Most events in life can be attributed to sheer randomness. It's not a comforting thought but it's not as insulting as insinuating our deity helps one person while blatantly permitting the torment of others.
It has to be said that I wrote a similar post in the Is There a God thread. No response. Can I ask again though (not you Pwcca, you are always respectful) that if people are going to talk here, they refrain from name-calling. Or telling people they are ignorant -- just waiting for that one, it always seems to pop up eventually.
Been busy so I have a lot of catching up to do, but here is a point to consider.
My contention is that people are basically selfish by nature and that God gives us choices. History shows that when people make Biblical choices, collective life (and even personal life) is better. When people make un-Biblical choices, quality of life decreases.
God allows bad things to happen because it is necessary to show us ourselves; to be a mirror.
People are fundamentally selfish. We have to learn to be charitable (it is an intellectual—i.e. spiritual—act; an act of our will), although there are charitable attributes built into our emotions as a control to keep a degree of sanity in the world.
God is loving and passionate and many other good things, but apathy is disgusting to God because it leads to suffering. Ironically, those who don't seriously explore the evidence supporting the Bible are apathetic towards the search for truth and this eventually leads to a breakdown of law. This law, when in place brings freedom, prosperity, peace, health, and many other blessings. This is why the U.S. was so successful in the early days. Now that the Biblical implementation of law has diminished (due to public apathy), the U.S. is now a hollow shell teetering on a very small pivot and headed for disaster.
The forefathers knew how important it was to be passionate about protecting truth and freedom because there are plenty on the world who are intent on taking this truth—and hence freedom—away.
"The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite."
—Jefferson
These "small elite" are the ones who incessantly slander the Bible via mass media, books, and all forms of media because they know it contains the ingredients for freedom, prosperity, and the division of power and prosperity as opposed to the centralization of power which results in the lowering of the quality of life.
The United States is the experiment that worked and proof of the effect of these Biblical principles is demonstrated in its early success
I would also state that the Catholic Church, as a system, is the "anti-church". I'm not saying Catholic people are evil at all. I'm simply saying that the system as designed by its architects is decidedly evil. It's much like the Masons. The low-level Masons may be good people who know nothing about what is being done at the higher levels. They are not aware that the system is a recruiting device for people without conscience who move up in the ranks and receive "benefits".
Many forefathers were masons but were low level and didn't realize until later what it was really all about (read Washington's later comments on the Masons). I would also read Kennedy's comments on the dangers of "secret societies". Very important.
Think about this. When you're trying to slander someone, you want to keep the one being slandered (the victim of the slander) away from one listening to the slander (the victim of the agenda). If you don't keep these two apart, then they will eventually communicate and realize that the slanderer is the real culprit and has an agenda.
This is exactly what is happening in the world today.
The Bible is being slandered horribly through mass media (like the Discovery Channel, etc.) so that people will be separated from the Bible; they won't even take a look at it, because if you bravely actually took a careful look at the Bible, you would realize that much of what is being said about it is untrue and grossly misleading. This is intended to keep you—the real victim of the agenda—from discovering the truths it contains because these truths lead to freedom, preservation of personal rights and personal value, and everything else that would destroy the agenda of the globalists who want centralized power.
This is also part of the reason for wiretapping.
If you were telling a lie to a group of people, the most valuable thing you could have to sustain and support the lie is information, that is, to be able to listen to the conversation between the victims of the lie when the liar was not around. This way, you will know exactly how to reform and remodel the lie to keep it effective. Without this information, you don't really know what your victim is thinking.
One of the strongest mechanisms used to keep people from reading and studying the Bible is the human tendency to follow fueled by the human desire for acceptance.
If everyone in the world believed the Bible was just some silly little book for weak people who need emotional support, then your sense of pride would want to be sure that no one caught you reading the book, otherwise, you might be considered weak and may consequently be rejected. Incidentally, mercury amplifies these emotional fears and interdependencies making them work much more efficiently. Mercury also induces apathy.
So, in the end, people oppress people, but God gives us a way out if we care.
God loves us and wants to "marry" us; He has suffered greatly on our behalf, but if we are so selfish and apathetic as to not raise a finger to meet Him in this loving endeavor, He will reject us, and as your creator, He has that right.
Ironically, with all the talk about the horrible things done in the name of religion, we must realize that evolution is the real belief system the promotes and justifies horrible actions by people. Hitler attempted to dedicate a copy of Das Capital to Darwin because it legitimized Hitler's belief system. Hitler knew and understood this.
We must also realize that, as the Bible states, the secondary victims of this slander against the Bible are often peaceful, Bible-believing Christians that will be tormented by the selfishness of this world, much as Christ was:
"Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned. By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days. By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace. And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."
—Hebrews 11:26-40
God painfully endures the apathy of people who make accusation without knowledge to allow the course of events to bring about a revelation of the truth, and this is a great irony:
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
—Romans 1:20-32
Finally, we must realize that nature is technology.
We live in highly-complex machines that are symmetrical and are able to reproduce. We consume other machines (plants) that assimilate substances from the ground into beneficial fuel for these bodies. Not ironically, the original command of God was for mankind to tend the garden.
As many, I cringe at the sight of TV evangelists and the like. Yet, I understand that the positioning of most of these characters is simply another mechanism of slander. Christianity has been infiltrated. I also understand that, no matter how bad the slander is, the truth is the truth regardless of my emotion or personal desires, and adherence to this truth will eventually lead to emotional satisfaction.
"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."
—Romans 8:18
This is like the difference between a short-term investment and a long-term investment.
When some electronic device does not work right, it is often a human reaction to hit it because they have learned that sometimes this actually fixes it.
But why?
Because the most common failing part of an electronic device is interconnections. Where one connector meets another, microscopic corrosion occurs on the surface of the metal causing resistance to electron flow. This causes a device to act up but often not to utterly fail. Hitting the device jolts the connector which microscopically scrapes the connection cleaning the corrosion away making a better junction allowing better electron flow. The device begins to work normally.
However, sometimes, hitting the device does not fix the problem. Why? Because electronic devices are a lot more complex than just simple electrical connections.
So, people see that this action (hitting the device) works sometimes and other times it does not and they model this behavior in their mind (because modeling is much of what the mind does). They sometimes even personify a device imputing a personality. This is, of course, only a model used to explain behavior that is not clearly understood. People do not typically personify very simple machines because their behavior is so clearly understood that no mystery exists.
So what does this mean?
Things are usually more complex than we think they are. We, naturally, like simplicity. We like to understand things or at least feel that we do because that implies control over something, which we usually like, if not for emotional reasons, at least for practical reasons (ex. "I like that I know how to work on cars because then I can fix them myself"; this is an elimination of fear because it removes a dependency providing greater control over a situation and it eliminates the need to have "faith" in someone).
But we learn often that these odd, unexplained behaviors are often the clues that lead us onto realizing that something is more complex than we originally thought. It is these "corner cases" that lead us into entirely new area of understanding, if we let them.
In the same way, the world is more complex than we think. Some psychological conditions may really be spiritual in nature. Other psychological conditions may actually be chemical. Others, conditioning (environmental).
Gods interaction with people is the same way.
Some people live in a somewhat "fated" existence. These are called the "elect". Others have free to a different degree and are here to make a decision. Both situations are going on simultaneously and this is why people get confused about how things work.
A belief in evolution also suffers from these same symptoms in that people make assumptions about the nature of things—they model incorrectly. They associate built-in expressions of genetic variance with adaptation. They over simplify the situation by not realizing that the ability to express genetic variances is a "built-in" feature of these complex systems and makes them significantly more complex. This added complexity only adds to the already weighty evidence of creation.
It's much like fuzzy logic.
When a system is simple, it is very fragile. A small change can cause destruction. When a system is complex, it can still be rather fragile, depending on the design. However, if you want to add a degree of protection and the built-in ability for self recovery, it becomes much less fragile (more "fault tolerant"), but this strength comes with a very heavy price. It makes them vastly more complex than if fault tolerance wasn't included. Vast fault-tolerant mechanisms are built-in to the human body. This relates directly to "micro-evolution".
The term micro-evolution was chosen only to confuse the clear delineation between designed capabilities for small changes (the information is already there: the system is already capable) and cell-to-man evolution. It's a term that sounds a lot like "evolution" to the undiscerning human and therefore confuses the issue making it easier to draw an association between something that is true (micro-evolution) and something that is not true (evolution) but that someone with an agenda wants you to believe is true.
In short, adapting systems are far more complex than non adapting ones, adding considerable complexity and assumed (already contained) information to a system and therefore further reducing the already astronomically low chances that species-to-species evolution can occur.
God created this Earth for us. That why the technology that exists here is layered in such a way the the higher levels are manageable, or considerably simpler; we don't have to know how they work.
For example, it's simple to plant a seed, but the process of growing is incredibly complex.
In the "man-made" domain, we know how to drive a car even if we don't know how the car works internally. In other words, there is a simplified interface between you and the car, namely, the accelerator. You press the "gas", the car goes faster.
This simplicity of interface is indicative of creation, despite the unattainable complexity that lies below at lower levels.
All of these subjects may seem unrelated at first glance, but some careful thought about their relationships and interactions may provide a vehicle for a new level of understanding how the world works.
In the end, I only can hope that people who avoid the Bible like the plague will change their minds and carefully check it out. Be skeptical, it's only wise, but by all means, put in the time to learn about the depth, prophecy, gamatria, and other evidences it provides. You can even ask God for help and He may provide it.
Don't miss out on the great blessing it is to know God and to understand how He relates to us. Those who have taken this journey do not regret it. I would not trade places with anyone despite their position, fame, wealth or any other tempting thing because I have realized that this relationship is the most important and gratifying thing in the world, but like any relationship, it takes work, and not ironically, a great place to start is to understand what God expected from us when He said to tend the garden.
"And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."
—Genesis 2:15
"A Psalm of David The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever."
—Psalms 23:1-6
The covenant is there for those who care
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This is a bit of a cumbersome post to reply to. It would be easier to address a few points in detail. Why are we back onto creationism here? I don't want to debate this because I know that creationists are so absolutely convinced of the literal truth of the Bible, and their own versions of what reality and science are, that I honestly don't see much point in trying to debate. Evolution is not proven, etc etc. You can't even prove that reality is what you are seeing through your own eyes. If you're going to go on what can only be proved beyond any doubt as true, then you will be living in a vacuum.
If God allows bad things to happen because he is trying to teach or show us something, then pity the poor innocent victims getting caught up in it all. Were they born so that they could suffer in order to bring about the greater good of a lesson to humanity? I seem to remember having this exact same conversation a while back.
How on earth can you say with any certainty that some people on earth have fates, and others have blank slates? Because God or the Bible says so? Other people say that you are reincarnated according to the level of karma you have achieved in your string of existences so far. Because the Vedas say so. (Or maybe the Upanishads, or something else.) Does one religion have more authority and truth than another? Only if you are so immersed in your own that you believe it is the only truth and the only right way to live.
I go along with you where you say life is better when people make Biblical choices, but I would substitute the word "moral" for Biblical. Morality can and should exist regardless of what religion a person follows.
In looking more at this thread, I found the link to the movie at the top. I have to say, I am amazed at the skillful and appealing work they did to attempt to rip apart the Bible, and for those who don't know the Bible, they did a masterful job. This is not the first film I've seen like this and I'm sure it will not be the last.
Unfortunately, the filmmaker puts the cart before the horse. He is amazingly misleading (although in a very clever way) and he makes broad assumptions and misrepresentations that are simply untrue and in fact, outright backwards. He also conveniently completely ignores the volumes of evidence the Bible has provided pertaining to its truth and authenticity.
This is intellectual dishonesty in its prime.
I am always against doing people's homework for them because then I would be subverting the very purpose of our being here, and that is, to make a decision. This decision is revealed by our actions, not by what we think of ourselves. It is done this way because people have very self-deceptive natures. Judgment-by-works eliminates this type of self-deception and so the best way to "know thyself" is to look at your actions.
Now, for those who don't want to do any homework and want to simply put your trust in some filmmaker who you don't know, go right ahead, but I won't tell you that it is a prudent decision. Knowing what I know, I can clearly see that this filmmaker has an agenda and I know this because he is omitting important information and distorting other information.
I would encourage anyone who doubts the truth and authenticity of the Bible to read and study it for themselves. Don't take my word for it and certainly don't take this filmmaker's word for it.
Now, for those who actually do plan on doing some research, let me point you in the right direction.
Locate the passage in the Bible that says Christ was born on the winter solstice.
Look up the true meaning behind easter.
Study the symbology of the astrological signs. Pay special attention to the names of the deacons and the primary stars within the signs and deacons. To help you with this study, I would suggest this book:
As you study, you will also see the absurdity of comparing mythological characters like horus and their stories to the account of Christ given in the Bible. As you study, you will discover what a "cart-before-the-horse" deceptive tactic this filmmaker is employing. It's really shameful, and he is obviously either deceived and very misinformed himself or is somehow profiting from this endeavor.
I would also study how the filmmaker is completely confusing the Catholic Church with the work of Christ.
If you do your homework, you will understand why the two are diametrically opposed (Christ and the Catholic Church). The scribes and pharisees actually hated and twisted the teachings of Christ to fit their own purposes. Christ warned us about them:
"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation. And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living."
—Mark 12:38-44
Study this carefully and understand that this is not a statement about the faith of a woman. It is a commentary on the financial raping of a people through un-Biblical taxation. (see Companion Bible notes—Bullinger)
I would also study the prophecies about the city on seven hills. This is a very interesting subject. You also need to consider Vatican City in some of your prophecy studies.
Yes, these prophecies written thousands of years ago are actually talking about events happening today. Unfortunately, that information didn't make the film either.
Further, the Bible is liberating and the law of God is protective and provides liberty for people. This is why it's referred to as the law of liberty. This is also why the United States had such great economic success in the early days, when it adhered to this law.
The film deceptively blames Christianity for tyranny when it—the false belief system promoted by this film—is actually the source for oppression. Again, if you don't lift a finger to check this out, you will be sucked in by the films skillful deception and omissions.
The Bible not only speaks about the time we are now entering, it also talks about the grand, global deception that will take place that will lead the majority of the world population into believing lies.
The events of the Bible are backed up by two unmistakable evidences: gamatria, and prophecy. But, there are more. There are witnesses to these events, archeological evidences based on Biblical references, and information about historical events that are correlated by other sources. This is overwhelming stuff and it is—at the very least—intellectually incriminating to have omitted this from the film.
Of course, to those who plan to do nothing to research these will have their consciences soothed by the misleading tactics in this film. Know thyself. You only have to give the masses what they lust after in order to neutralize them, and this is just what this film delivers, so-called "evidence" that Christ is a myth. So, do as thou wilt is now the whole of the law. You are just beginning to see just what kind of world this kind of philosophy produces.
In the film, the comparisons to "other gods" is compelling on its face, but again, these other silly mythological stories have nothing to do with Christ or His nature. There are similarities, but study will show that there are enormous differences between myth and reality. To write off the myriad evidences of Christ using this method employed by the filmmaker is—although clever—only workable against people who are ignorant of the true biblical evidence.
I also recognize the chief antichrist-spokesperson George Carlin who also does not know the first thing about the Bible. He speaks on the film about taxation, yet, he does not realize that the "scribes" (so to speak) used 501-C3 as a control mechanism against churches right to free speech, but neither the filmmaker or George have figured that one out yet. Yes, 501-C3 is a tactic that people used to neutralize "churches", but many will still think that the ones who invented this tactic are their buddies.
So, this film has the results of Biblical understanding 180 degrees out of alignment, the birth of Christ wrong, the facts behind easter wrong, the hidden meanings of the astrological signs out of sequence and incorrectly interpreted, the money issue completely backwards, the parallels between so-called gods, star movements, and facts about Christ incorrectly correlated, and I didn't watch the entire film.
It's important to remember that this life is a filter to separate those who follow logic and reason and those who selfishly decide to follow emotionalism (what they want).
On a more personal note, I have to say that this kind of "journalism" disgusts me. Watching the film is like reading the quackwatch website. In fact, one of the sections of my short quackwatch rebuttal story is called "Shameful Omissions" because of the vital information that was deceptively omitted.
For those who are sucked in by this kind of misinformation, I truly hope you will, one day, take the time to search it our for yourself. Just as Heiser exposes Gardner's lies, and just like Hovind exposes the moth-pinned-to-a-tree textbook lies, I hope you can see through the clever deception that will—as foretold in Biblical prophecy—become more prevalent in these times shortly before the return of Christ.
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
—Revelation 13:16-18
"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"
—Ephesians 4:14
Last edited by Russ; 01/11/1704:57 AM.
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If you're going to go on what can only be proved beyond any doubt as true, then you will be living in a vacuum.
Investigators learn many things using correlating evidence. Scientists use many methods to deduce truth. Many things we depend on every day we have only a partial or small understand about (gravity, the inner working of the human cell, etc.) yet we utilize these truths to get things done and do useful things.
In other words, we don't have to know everything about everything to do anything.
Simply put, evolution is based on junk science and is promoted with an agenda. It's simple. I love science but evolution is simply not based on science. The only reason people are so convinced in evolution is because they are incapable or unwilling in believing in global conspiracies.
The methods used to promote evolution are the same that have been used to promote the safety of mercury in amalgam fillings. The people who do these evil things are not very creative, although they are quite smart, so they use the same techniques for promoting well-constructed convincing lies.
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If God allows bad things to happen because he is trying to teach or show us something, then pity the poor innocent victims getting caught up in it all.
I think you're missing the point. It's more complex than that.
(1) It's generally up to us how our lives go.
(2) No one is innocent.
(3) God does promise to prevent anything from happening to us that is beyond what we are capable of handling, but (and here's where it gets a little more complicated) that is if we reach an age that we can understand God and we accept his offer in covenant. If we reject His covenant knowing what we are doing, God does not have an outstanding offer of protection, although I believe He still does to a lessor degree.
You have to remember that you're not dealing with a computer program here. You are dealing with a living being that is much bigger and smarter and nicer than both of us and He has a personality. He decides what He wants to do but He does give us rules (for our protection) and wants to enter a loving covenant with us which, if we agree to do, He agrees to provide certain protection and blessings for us. I'll include some scripture that will help you understand the Biblical positions on these things.
In the 23 Psalm, David says:
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death...
David fully understood that God (in His covenant) did not state that He would prevent David from walking through the "valley of the shadow of death" (evil), but David knew that God did promise to:
"...never leave thee, nor forsake thee." —Hebrews 13:5
So David said:
"...for thou art with me..."
We humans really have to get off of our self-righteous kick and realize that we are imperfect and pretty darn selfish.
If we are created by God, He owns us. He has the moral right to tell us what is right and wrong. Simple.
Here is the actual covenant promise:
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
—1 Corinthians 10:13
Here are some Biblical references to help you understand the Biblical position.
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
—Philippians 2:13
"Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"
—Ephesians 1:9-10
"Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."
—Luke 12:32
"And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day. And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers: If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them."
—Deuteronomy 30:8-20
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How on earth can you say with any certainty that some people on earth have fates, and others have blank slates? Because God or the Bible says so?
The reason you have faith in anything is because "it" has proven itself to you. Like building a relationship, when someone turns out to be right over and over and has provided evidence that they are reliable, then your "faith" in them grows.
The Bible goes far beyond this and provides gamatria and prophecy and numerous other evidences to demonstrate that it is indeed written by God through men and is reliable.
God may also reveal Himself to each individual who enters covenant with Him. (Notice I don't say that "He will" because it's up to Him whether He will or not.) He revealed Himself to me through several astounding events in my life.
All of the study, evidence inside and outside the Bible, and astounding personal experiences convinced me that the Bible is exactly what it claims to be and that Christ is exactly who He claims to be.
So...
When the Bible talks about the predestination of some (still within their will, mind you—they simply have a job to do) and the free will of others, I believe it because of my faith in the integrity of the Bible through the evidences I've received, and because it makes complete sense in context, i.e., it all fits together perfectly even though it was penned by several people over thousands of years.
Again, I am a skeptic and it took many years for me to accept the Bible for what it is, but study finally paid off.
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Other people say that you are reincarnated according to the level of karma you have achieved in your string of existences so far. Because the Vedas say so. (Or maybe the Upanishads, or something else.) Does one religion have more authority and truth than another?
Absolutely.
There is only one truth. If reincarnation occurs, then certain aspects of the Bible are not true. (They are mutually exclusive.)
Based on my findings of the overwhelming evidence of the integrity of the Bible placed against the subjective evidence of past lives and considering the Biblical explanation for these types of phenomena, I clearly see that the Biblical explanation must be correct. Of course, this takes study (today is my study day, by the way).
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."
—Hebrews 9:27-28
If there is one truth than why should I aspire to live anything but it. Should I desire to live a lie? Certainly not.
You see, I understand well how most people come to their conclusions about what it real and what it true, and I know that their process is much more speculation and emotionalism than evidence. This does not work for me. I need evidence. I have been called a "doubting Thomas" by some.
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Morality can and should exist regardless of what religion a person follows.
It's important to distinguish between religion and reality.
Religion is a man-made system, perhaps a tradition or ceremony.
Reality is truth. If the Biblical God exists and if the Biblical God wrote the Bible, then perhaps we should humbly pay attention.
"Take heed lest there shall be any one that maketh spoil of you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ:"
—Colossians 2:8
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Alright, first off, I don't own a television. I rather like not owning one. I also like telling people that I don't own one. It's a useful tool but most of what is broadcast is useless, compounded further with the fact that when one watches television, it is proven that our brain waves slow down, bordering on theta. So if you want to tell anyone that TVs are great brainwashing tools, you're preaching to the choir on this one <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />. Lastly, I'm a fairly young fellow but for some reason have always been old fashioned. I like writing letters with paper and pen rather than e-mail when possible. And I definitely prefer to read long pieces of information with a physical book rather than off a screen. I say all of this so you can simply understand my personality.
That being said, I do tend to flip through the endless milieu of channels when visiting my family. And, on occasion, when visting, I stumble upon the History, Discovery and Explorer channels, and then I proceed to sit and watch, sometimes entire episodes.
And most of the time, they're broadcasting all this Jesus hocus pocus, trying to prove that Noah's arc really existed and how some blanket has the imprint of Jesus' face and so on. The only real propoganda I've seen from these channels is Christian propoganda. A lot of times it appears they show both sides, skeptics and believers alike, but they're still definitely selling Christianity.
There's no way you can demonize the Discovery Channel by saying it's anti-Christian when, on the contrary, it's brimming with Christian persuasion. In fact, if I flip to one of those channels one more time and see yet another enaction of Jesus while they to explain about the apostles this and the scriptures that, I'm seriously going to get hysterical . It's so over the top that telling me they are anti-Christian is like telling me it's not hot outside when it's 96 degrees fahrenheit!
Just for the sake of argument, even if they were trying to promote evolution, so what? Is that any different than trying to promote Christianity? Trying to promote anything doesn't mean they're global conspirators out to get us. Maybe some people are using evolution as some sort of conspiracy, but guess what? So has Christianity and a whole heck of a lot of other people. That doesn't mean evolution, itself, is flawed, nor Christianity for that matter.
I find it difficult to argue here for two reasons. First off, these are big posts Russ, maybe you could try to condense some of your points? Not that my brain can't handle it or anything, but it's easier to respond in logical detail to a few points than to a number of vague ones interspersed with yet more Bible passages that I am not interested in reading. I don't want to take an hour to write a long response and I think people would probably get bored reading it.
Secondly, you claim to have knowledge of the Bible and Christianity far beyond the rest of us. Anything we say is ignorance in your book. We're being duped by conspiracies, we can't see the truth, we don't want to accept God's love, etc. There's no point in trying to tell you otherwise because it isn't going to register. Why are other stories about Horus, Gilgamesh, etc, "silly"? They have undeniable similarities to stories in the Bible. Because you want to believe it was divinely influenced, you deny the very possibility that these stories were passed down from other older cultures and incorporated into the Bible. You also say that Christianity is the only "true" religion. So the other major world religions are all wrong are they? Why? I can accept that Christianity is your chosen path and the thing that resonated most with you. What I find difficult to stomach is when people say they are right and everyone else is wrong, that they are God's chosen people and everyone else is going to end up in hell if they don't follow the "true" path. In my reckoning, humans have existed for thousands of years and have been practising spirituality and rituals of all kinds. They still do today, in an amazing variety of ways that I enjoy learning about. It is the height of hubris to claim that one religion that hasn't existed for long in the grand scope of things, and which a minority of people in the world follow, is the only truth.
Regarding the suffering of people for the greater "good" of a lesson to humanity. No one is innocent, you say. In what way? The idea of original sin messed up my head as a child and I deplore it. I believe in the beauty and potential of humankind, not in our ungodly unworthiness. Can you tell me that the Jews who died in concentration camps weren't "innocent"? What had they done wrong to deserve that, then? Was that OK because they were heathen? Or because God wanted us to be reading in our history books today about the depths that humanity can sink to? I cannot believe in a loving God that would allow such things to happen to ordinary and yes, innocent people. This is the same God, is it, who allows people to be slaughtered in pointless wars, allows babies to be born in hunger-stricken poverty only to die miserably a few days later? You've really got to do some twisting of reality on yourself to square belief in a benevolent God with these things that happen every day.
BTW I didn't like the Christianity part of the video either, though my reasons are perhaps a bit different. My comments are further up in the thread.
SoSick, I will respond to the link you asked me to look at if you will refrain from patronising or insulting me.
I can't say I'm surprised in any way by what this article says about Mormons in Utah. I have dealt with Mormons and I have heard stories from people who have been to Salt Lake City. I'm glad I don't live there. Point being . . . that this is a power-obsessed theocracy? Well, yes. It's nice that you oppose this scenario, and so does Russ from the sound of it. A lot of fundamentalist Christians over there don't agree with you though. They would be just as happy to set up their own repressive regime in the United States. A lot of them preach terrible hate, haven't you heard them?
I also have to say that I can't see much difference between Mormonism and Christianity. They say different things of course, but look at how similar they are -- these, and most religions in general. An infallible prophet (look -- we can prove these things came true -- we have reached our promised land!). An infallible book. An "us vs. them" mentality -- we are right and you are wrong. Social laws embedded in the religion and purporting to be the will of God. An acceptance of beliefs that "gentiles" might see as being weird, illogical, even oppressive because when you only associate with other people who do these things, they become the norm, and it's everyone else who is weird.
I also have yet to meet a fundamentalist of any religion who has much of a sense of humour.
As Jill said, how do you draw a line between a cult and a religion?
The chritian church makes tons of money promoting their fairy tale , whereas no money is made by the scientific research that supports evolution . Much of the science was done by people with no knowledge or interest in anthropology . Where did Sosick and Russ study math and science?
Evolution has nothing to do with the amalgam issue . First of all, dentistry is a self policing profession . Govt agencies test a zillion things for toxicity so if they have'nt tested amalgam it is not due to some vast conspiracy;they simply left the issue to the dental profession . Also , many dentists must be unaware of the toxicity because they don't protect themselves from mercury exposure Ofcourse, those who use or used amalgam want to avoid liability if it becomes an established scientific fact that many health problems result from amalgam. Are physicists afraid of being sued if evolution is shown to be false? Some people on this forum have the characteristics of cult members. They are isolated , uneducated and only exposed to one point of view This also makes them similar to Taliban members who are sure their religion is the only true one.
I did'nt watch Elvis's 911 conspiracy film . However I agree with Linda that it's racist to assume that Arabs are'nt smart enough to pull it off . Does'nt Pakistan have atomic bombs evan though they are a third world country full of dark skinned people?
Can't you see that this kind of talk is what is upsetting people here? How dare you come on a forum and flame people like this? You are taking advantage of the freedoms here and I can't imagine anyone enjoys reading these kinds of put-downs. If you want to do some mud-slinging with another member then please do it privately. I've lost interest in this thread myself; the topic is thought-provoking, but the childish bickering is just beyond the pale.
Actually Linda, this is the flaming:
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Jill said What is the difference between cults and the church? Both are based on brainwashing techniques, long repetitive lectures , faith rather than logic, isolation from those opposed to the beliefs of the group, blind trust in the authority of charismatic leaders, long hours of mind numbing prayer,a seige mkentality, ready made decisions and friends,rigid moral judgments of non-members,more rules than a gulag,ostracism of people who are independant thinkers.
Margaret Singer is considered the top mind on cults . She was twice nominated for a nobel prize and has written books on cults. Not many graduates of top universities (public or private) are reigious fanatics because they come to realize that noone's imaginary friend in the sky is better than another's and because science proves major religions to be fairy tales. So-sick is an unthinking cog in the machine of the church
And this:
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quote] . . . a terrible sense of diplomacy. I just somehow do not see you lasting 10 minutes in a courtroom even with your college peers. Your presentation and demeanor are terrible. Is that what they teach at Berkeley or is it why you are still in school?
....A lot of fundamentalist Christians over there don't agree with you though. They would be just as happy to set up their own repressive regime in the United States. A lot of them preach terrible hate, haven't you heard them?
No, I haven't, not in any big way that would grab my attention and make me shudder. Maybe you should point out a few examples. I think it's probably wise to keep in mind that within any group, Christians, non-christians, muslims, athiests, you are always going to have some ignorant fanatics who deceive themselves and thus try to deceive others. Likewise it's probably wise to assume that the fanatics will get bully whipped by their own gang at some point, usually when it starts becoming too embarrassing to tolerate anymore..
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I also have to say that I can't see much difference between Mormonism and Christianity. They say different things of course, but look at how similar they are...
Study it. They preach the bible to other Christians and non-christians, but their theology is light years away from biblical Christianity. It's much more than just about a prophet, they actually believe they will be gods and goddesses on their own planets.
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As Jill said, how do you draw a line between a cult and a religion?
I guess that always depends on who is drawing the line. You can define anything as a cult if you want to. Atheisim is a cult. MTV has it's own little cult. The Hell's Angels are a cult. Skinheads are a cult. People who collect stamps have their own cult. Depends where you decide someone is focusing that is not where you want them to be focusing I guess. A lot of people get accused of being in a cult by family members who disagree with their beliefs. I actaully was accused by my family of joining a cult for attending a Church of God instead of the Catholic church. They pretty much ostracized me for leaving the Cathiolic church years ago. Not like they ever went or anything. They went to quite some lengths in their accusations. I visited that church of God maybe 3-4 times, really I wanted just to know about other denominations. But in my family's eye's I had left 'their church' and therefore had joined a 'cult'. You tell me because I have no logical explanantion for it, but I have heard plenty of similar stories. I think a lot of the time people simply fear the unknown, even though they have no actual experience with the unknown item.
Cult is short for culture. I thought you were in favor of allowing people to beileve whatever they wanted? I would not go chasing people insisting they were part of a cult, why would you be so intolerant in your actions when in your words you state otherwise? Personally I don't think it's my business what other people want to believe and however it is they got there. I can share my beliefs with them, but I can never actually make them believe.
I like Margaret Singer's work, she defines things well. However, using scientology as an example that she was fond of, not all scientolgists are messed up, some are very successful and happy in their scientology. I'd say that if a person requires 'de-programming' then they had a different (possibly mental) problem to begin with.
Our culture leaves a lot of people feeling dispossessed, unwanted, maybe that is actually a bigger problem.
I'll never forget a conversation I had with a Catholic priest many years ago... I asked him about other denominations, common ones like Baptists, Assembly of God... he said quote unquote 'Oh , all of those are cults.'
I didn't say anything to him, but I know from my knowledge of history that that is the exact same logic that the Catholic church used hundreds of years ago to accuse people of being witches and burn them at the stake. I didn't expect to hear it from a priest in my generation however. Well, obviously they do still teach that even if they tell everybody otherwise. It's amazing the information you get from people when they consider you an 'insider'.
Russ said I also recognize the chief antichrist-spokesperson George Carlin who also does not know the first thing about the Bible. He speaks on the film about taxation, yet, he does not realize that the "scribes" (so to speak) used 501-C3 as a control mechanism against churches right to free speech, but neither the filmmaker or George have figured that one out yet. Yes, 501-C3 is a tactic that people used to neutralize "churches", but many will still think that the ones who invented this tactic are their buddies.
There is some information here that might interest you:
"That's right, the UNITED STATES CHURCH OF AMERICA seems to have officially opened for business! In this article by Dr Greg J. Dixon it is reported that in order to be able to keep your 501C3 tax free status as a church. You not only have to AGREE that all other churches INCLUDING NON-CHRISTIAN CHURCHES are equal to yours in every way. But you must also agree to teach and embrace the SACRAMENTS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC VATICAN as Christian requirements for tax free status."
Just wanted to respond to a few of Pwcca's points.
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Alright, first off, I don't own a television. I rather like not owning one. I also like telling people that I don't own one. It's a useful tool but most of what is broadcast is useless, compounded further with the fact that when one watches television, it is proven that our brain waves slow down, bordering on theta. So if you want to tell anyone that TVs are great brainwashing tools, you're preaching to the choir on this one
Good to hear and I agree.
I have a couple TV's but they get more use by watching educational and historic videos than the garbage that gets broadcast.
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And most of the time, they're broadcasting all this Jesus hocus pocus, trying to prove that Noah's arc really existed and how some blanket has the imprint of Jesus' face and so on. The only real propoganda I've seen from these channels is Christian propoganda. A lot of times it appears they show both sides, skeptics and believers alike, but they're still definitely selling Christianity.
There's no way you can demonize the Discovery Channel by saying it's anti-Christian when, on the contrary, it's brimming with Christian persuasion.
I could not disagree with you more on this point, however, I clearly understand why you would have this view. Let me explain.
Have you ever had a comment said to you in public that you knew was meant a certain way but meant something completely different to on-listeners?
This is exactly how the scripts are written for these Discovery Channel programs:
(1) They appeal to shallow Christians: They believe that the Channel is doing "Christianity" some good.
(2) They disprove or show supposed "faults" in the Bible to non-Christians. This is where the real misrepresentation takes place.
(3) They repulse educated Christians, which is a relatively small group.
The scripts for these programs are written with a cleverness that is not imaginable by most people. They are written with three specific audiences in mind, and only those in group 3 above can recognize this.
Since I see through the lies and deception that they promote, I could write a short book on the methods used, but I'll spare both of us for now.
Nevertheless, I do see why you see it this way and why you feel the way you do. The programs personally make me angry but for a different reason; I see through the deception.
This same kind of double-writing is used in many TV programs, like ER, and also promotes the same type of twisted, deceptive message.
Again, I'm tempted to write on but I'll stop for now.
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Just for the sake of argument, even if they were trying to promote evolution, so what? Is that any different than trying to promote Christianity?
Yes, it's completely different. Here's why.
Evolution is based on junk science and is continually promoted "scientifically" through the control of grant money. It's exactly the same as in the textbooks and in museum displays. Outdated and blatantly inaccurate information continue to be promoted as fact long after we know it is not.
If the Bible were spoken about on mass media in truth, and if all of the incredible information it contains were openly spoken about concerning the Bible's relation to:
(1) prophecy (foretelling the future),
(2) history (how meticulously it was assembled and preserved and translated),
(3) archeology (it predicted discoveries and confirmed new various new findings),
(4) gematria (its internal numbers reveal deeper truths, for example, bad people have 13 as a factor in their name in Hebrew), and
(5) certain other amazing correlations (153 fish caught is the same number of people healed in all 4 gospels See WP)
then the force of freedom and liberation from oppression that originally formed the U.S. would seep throughout the whole world, but of course, freedom is not beneficial to the cause of the powers-that-be.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
—Johann Wolfgang van Goethe (Think about this:How can someone falsely believe they are free?)
You would think that all this communication technology and information distribution technology we have to day could be used to bring people together, show that most illnesses can be eliminated with alternative methods, inspire personal excellence, etc., but instead, it is in the hands of a bunch of power-hungry liars who have no higher interest than to oppress, deceive, and sicken people for their own wealth and control.
"No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders."
—Samuel Adams
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Trying to promote anything doesn't mean they're global conspirators out to get us. Maybe some people are using evolution as some sort of conspiracy, but guess what? So has Christianity and a whole heck of a lot of other people. That doesn't mean evolution, itself, is flawed, nor Christianity for that matter.
I agree, but I don't use what is broadcast to determine if there is a conspiracy or not.
The best to to unmistakably uncover the tips of the grand conspiracy is to study law. Great places to start are U.S. law in 1913 and 1930 and 1933; Trading with the Enemies Act, War Powers Act, The Federal Reserve Act, EO #11110... etc.
Christianity has been used to hurt and oppress people; no doubt about it, but it was not used for this purpose by Christians.
The powers-that-be will use any tool at their disposal to achieve their complete control, dominance, and wealth. Humans are nothing to them.
The Bible teaches that humans are precious in the sight of God but it also teaches that if you continually do harmful things to fellow humans, God may punish you for the greater good, that is, to get you to stop.
I once asked my sister, an evolutionist: What would you do with a person who produces, promotes and knowingly administers a toxin to humans and continues to do it while lying and claiming that it is for human benefit—a toxin that causes depression, suicide, numerous physical ailments, and death in some—and they did this for their own financial profit?
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Welp, if there's even one person out there who wants to get beyond the good Christians/bad Christians (or any Christians at all) drama bein played out here eatin it's own tail into eternity, there is always Michael Tsarion, a true alternative historian. Here is some real thought provokin stuff for peole who like to think an don't think they know it all already. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8545585184878490822 Ah lost ma heart for this thread from the nastiness. Ah didn't like maself for stoopin to it. Ah coulda posted the Zeitgeist film without the first 1/3 talkin about solar religions. Ah had the mistaken thought that folks secure enough in their own beliefs would take it or leave it. Plus, any fool knows Jesus wadn't born Dec. 25th. but honestly folks,George Carlin the anti-Christ? Was thinkin that fella might be someone a bit bigger than a comedian, maself. Didn't anabody go beyond that part an look at the political points a where we are right now? How world events are not how we are told they are? The money/power cotrolled media feedin an corruptin our very sick an purposely dumbed down society? This truly was the point a that film, apart from the obvious think for yourself message. Anabody quotin an defendin the bible with a tone a scathing superiority an nasty personal attackin methods ain't exactly a very good representative for that religion, unless ya like that sort a thing. Ah had to have a look at maself cuz a the slingin a insults goin on on the 2 threads Ah was foolish enough to start. Ah decided to look elsewhere there was trouble where Ah was not involved. Ah did not like what Ah saw. And no Pwcca, Ah think ya shoulda complained more when SS called ya "touchy feely wiccy "an then asked ya if he could call ya a Pwcc.. So, Ah guess Ah am not all to blame but Ah fell into the trap an for that Ah am responsible. This kind a communicatin isn't where Ah want to be , it just ain't for me anamores. This is what Ah don't like more than anythin else an surly is why we will remain in this toxic world.
P.S. It ain't the Catholics, it's the Jesuits, hope Ah didn't spoil the mystery.
Michael Tsarion is intriguing on some accounts but not completely accurate. There are some serious problems with his perspective. I have considered whether he is an operative.
The Catholic "organization" is the public "religious" front for the Jesuit hand; the velvet glove on the iron fist, if you will. Basically sounds as if we agree on this.
Interestingly, Pat Buchanan was trained by the Jesuits. I heard him say this exact phrase on CNN in the mid/late 90s: "I was trained by the Jesuits".
The attorney for "The Disclosure Project" is also council for the Jesuits.
The list goes on and on.
Last edited by Russ; 01/11/1704:17 AM.
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I asked if I could call him Pwcc for short, it is his chosen name and he's got everyone using it if you haven't noticed. I was only being sincere and polite.
Not a name I would choose for myself so I thought I would ask about it. Why is that a problem?
I guess I am allowed to only ask the 'right' questions. Feely touchy my goodness. The NWO of Elvis.
This is the Walmart generation for sure... we want it fast we want it now, we don't care where it comes from or where it's been or how many people lost good jobs along the way.
Well, so don't complain either. I have said that before I hate to have to keep repeating it. You need to be dumbed down to make it all work exactly the way you want it. Enjoy your $10/hr wages to keep it all in motion.
It is pretty funny, I have been laughing about it all week, having to ask someone that. What's in a name.
What planet are you all on. Read thes posts back to yourselves. Hello reality check. BLAH BLAH BLAH. Get a life all of you. Totally pathetic. Yes I am an Anon, Troll, whatever you wish to call me. You are all a joke.
As far asd science is concerned, you know little and understand even less so who are you to call anything junk science. My conclusions about evolution are from multiple areas of science and math, some of which predate evolution by decades or centuries. Just today I read about astrobiologist David S McKay and his study of the evidence of past life on mars. This would make sense if the solar system is several billion years old and the planets are cooling .You were brainwashed as a child to believe in christianity and it's too bad you did'nt graduate college where you would have met people of many faiths and studied science.Most scientists are brilliant people who could make millions a year working for hedge funds but are more interested in truth than material possessions. Even though sciantists make some mistakes, theoverallprogression is toward greater understanding.
You are the generation that didn't want the dumb kids to called dumb or the fat kids to be called fat because many of you fell into those categories and your mommies wanted you to feel better about yourselves just the way you are. So now we've got a problem with the school system and some of you are now teachers even, and we've also got an obesity epidemic. Those are just two examples.
Any difference of opinion offends you, any critical discussion or assessment makes you cry. You debate meaningless things endlessly and rarely begin a real discussion.
It hard to tell sometimes whether you are wallowing in self-pity or self-loathing or both. Either way, it's your choice so wallow in it.
You really all need desperate help, these posts are getting more and more absurd. I wouldn't even belittle us people with Mercury poisoning to believe you belong to that group. You lot are so childish it's truly beyond belief. I've never been on a website and read such utter and total crap. The fact that you can't even realise what b******s your posting is incredibly worrying. You are not even making any sense what so ever any more. Sosick you are apptly named, there is something very wrong with your thinking patterns. If you can't read back the total rubbish you are posting there's not a great deal of hope. You portray yourself as being this highly intelligent person, get a grip on reality. Honestly your posts are the most bizarre stuff I have ever read. Get help!
No not Tracy, know her very well though and she would not come on here as a Anon, has more guts. She dosen't come on any more only to post her private friends and has joined another forum. It's amazing, why suggest her?. It seems like you lot pick on the people suffering the most, those with good hearts and intentions. If necessary I'll post as myself, but have also now decided enough is enough. Enjoy your self opinionated crap and know that you have destroyed a once useful forum. I'll tell Tracy and let her know your opinion of her. Knowing her she won't judge, what a shame you didn't use the forum for the original intention. Have fun! I have no worrry about letting you know who I am, but as your now even arguing about user's name's thought it was amusing to come on as Anon, plus give you something else to [censored] about. Am related as you have probably already guessed. Will change her name and password now so you can't upset her any more. Understand. You have no idea how many of her friends are upset too. I am sick of seeing her beating herself up about this, she's had enough to put up with.
Wow. I like Tracy and we had some nice talks. I can see you are upset but getting this emotional and insulting people isn't going to help anyone. I am not one of the people here insulting anyone else. It's quite your choice what thread to read and talk on, I have certainly not destroyed this forum. I simply know that Tracy has been saying similar things to the Anon post here and her style is similar. Please try to calm down and if you want to talk about things start another thread?
yep Linda you were almost right. Hate to think someone in my family felt they had to speak on my behalf, but quite frankly I just don't care any more. I received the most upsetting private post from someone on here, last night, who has a heart of Gold. It finally made me realise no matter what I say nothing will stop the bickering and the upset it's causing others. Ok you may say we have a chioce what we read, but why should we have to pick our way through threads to find useful information. I could name at least half a dozen people not posting any more. I feel no malice towards anyone, just a sorrow that we all use to be such friends, but I don't and have never liked sarcasm and needless rude comments. This is a difficult world as it is. It's my own choice to use a different forum, one that so far as only shown kindness to all members. It just suits me better. Thats my nature and as I say my chioce. I'll come back to private post friends, although some I speak to on the phone. I hope sincerely you all come to some peaceful resolution and make peace with each other. Love Tracy
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. It's so over the top that telling me they are anti-Christian is like telling me it's not hot outside when it's 96 degrees fahrenheit!