I added flaxseed oil to my regimen a few days ago when I realized that since I am not eating fish lately, and not eating other foods high in omega 3 fats, I am probably very deficient in omega 3. Here is a link to a nice website that shows you the nutritional composition of foods, and can show you which foods are highest in a certain nutrient for a 200 calorie serving. Very useful!

http://www.nutritiondata.com/

If you want omega-3 then you need to know that flaxseed oil actually contains ALA, which is a precursor. The body then uses this to make EPA and DHA. However, very little of the ALA is used for this purpose. You'd have to be guzzling huge amounts of flaxseed oil to get your body's daily requirement of omega-3.

Fish oil is the best source. If you are in the US then Carlson's is one of the highest-quality.

Regards,
Linda.

Get high EPA Omega 3, it helps alot with mood and depression

"Flax oil vs. fish oils While much of the research has featured fish oils, recent evidence indicates that flaxseed oil, nature's richest source of omega-3 oils, may have far greater benefit at a much reduced price. Hundreds of detailed scientific studies have shown supplementation with fish oils demonstrates many impressive effects, especially in improving cardiovascular function including lowering cholesterol levels and blood pressure. Fish oils are composed of two fatty acids (eicosapentaenoic acid or EPA; and docosahexanoic acid or DHA) which can be manufactured in the human body from alpha-linolenic acid, the chief fatty acid found in flaxseed oil.

A recent clinical study demonstrated that approximately 1.5 tablespoons of flaxseed oil increased tissue levels of EPA com-parable to those levels achieved in studies using fish oils. The key to achieving high tissue levels with flaxseed oil is restricting omega-6 oil intake. To do this, simply eliminate or avoid vegetable oils rich in linoleic acid. The results of this recent study are significant for several reasons with the most important being that flaxseed oil can be used instead of fish oils.

The primary benefits of flaxseed oil over fish oils are cost and safety. In order to achieve dosages used in the positive clinical studies with fish oils, a person would have to spend over $70 a month for fish oils while a month's supply of flax oil is only $12.

The safety question is based on several studies showing fish oil supplements to be contaminated with toxic derivatives known as lipid peroxides. While extra vitamin E and other antioxident nutrients offer some protection against these compounds, in general, it is a good idea to avoid the intake of lipid peroxides"

"Lignans:
An extra benefit of flax
Flaxseeds are the most abundant source of compounds which can be converted by bacteria in the gut to lignans, special compounds which are demonstrating some rather impressive health benefits. These ben-efits include positive effects in relieving menopausal hot flashes, as well as anticancer, antibacterial, antifungal, and antiviral activity.

Perhaps the most significant of these actions of lignans are their anticancer effects. A substantial amount of research has shown that flaxseed lignans are changed by the bacteria in the human intestine to compounds which are extremely protective against cancer, particularly breast cancer.

Flax oil high in lignan may be the best choice of flax oil for women going through menopause or women at risk for breast cancer. It is currently estimated that as many as one in seven women will develop breast cancer in their lifetime. "

http://www.barleans.com/literature/flax/29-flaxseed-best-source.html

Just focusing on the omega-3 issue here, do you have any sources for these studies that say you get comparable omega-3 in fish oil and flaxseed oil? I work with a doctor of many years' experience in nutritional healing and this would be news to her as well. She has given me figures for the amounts of ALA that are converted to DHA and EPA and they are low. I can ask her for a source or two if anyone wants me to, but unlike most doctors, this is one who actually knows her stuff, she uses nutrition to heal some very sick people.

Linda.

mercola.com has a good deal on Krill oil - the best omega 3

"Flax oils vs. fish oil
In his book, Dr. Rudin (see below) points out that most Omega-3 studies are based on fish oil. Rudin finds this disappointing, as he has had better results with flaxseed oil in his own studies. This may be because flaxseed oil starts with the plant form of linolenic acid, ALA (alpha linolenic acid), whereas fish oil contains the animal form, DHA (docosahexaenoic acid). The body makes its own DHA and EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) from ALA. Although some claim that the amount of DHA made is small, the body doesn't need much DHA. Most DHA is contained in cell membranes, and is held there with little replacement. In contrast, ALA and compounds made from it are also needed in the body for a number of essential functions. Fish oil cannot provide ALA, and therefore deprives the consumer of this critical compound. Some people feel that they need DHA or EPA as a supplement, and that's their personal choice. However, most sources covering the different types of oil indicate that plant-based Omega-3s, or ALA, is the better choice."

http://goodfats.pamrotella.com/

I wouldn't deny that ALA seems to be a very important substance in the body. I'm glad that it's part of a good chelation protocol because I'm sure it can only be doing my body good, and I would supplement with it even if I weren't chelating.

However, I still question this statement that it's better than fish oil. The body does make DHA and EPA from it and the amounts are small. This person is claiming that we don't need much DHA anyway. It's a widespread notion, because you'll find various fish oils that have little or no DHA in them. However, I think the best rule of thumb to have is always what nature intended, and therefore what foods we have been eating and evolving on for millions of years. Fish tend to have roughly equal concentrations of DHA and EPA. DHA is actually important in the body for things like brain structure. Giving ourselves EPA with little DHA (or, in the case of children's supplements, DHA with little EPA) just isn't the balance we would have if we were getting our omega-3 from our food, like all humans did until very recently.

I'm not going to sit here and say I'm right and everyone else is wrong, end of story, but I wouldn't mind seeing specifically what the doctors or studies are saying to support this. Is there a site that gives more details about Dr. Rudin? My intention would be, if he seemed to have convincing info, to discuss it with my naturopath and find out what she says about it.

Linda.

mercury fish oils is so expensive,i bought one bottle and that was it.
i take flax and borage oil together, its supposed to do the same job. i dont notice any difference when i take either fish oil or flax.

Likewise both have worked for me

"I wouldn't deny that ALA seems to be a very important substance in the body. I'm glad that it's part of a good chelation protocol "

I hope you aren't confusing ALA for chelation(alpha lipoic acid) with ALA omega 3(alpha linolenic acid).

"I think the best rule of thumb to have is always what nature intended, and therefore what foods we have been eating"

The articles I mentioned don't say to avoid fish oils, but instead to get fish oils by eating fish, and use flaxseed oil as an oil supplement. Since we are mercury toxic, it is important for us to focus on fatty fish that are low in mercury. This includes sardines, salmon, and herring. Stay away from swordfish and mackeral. It is also a good idea to avoid tuna, but if you must eat tuna then choose the chunk light rather than the solid white, as the chunk light typically has around 1/3 the mercury of the solid white.

Some of the articles I mentioned are also concercerned about possible toxins in the fish oils and the possiblity of those oils being rancid. I guess the greatest concern is for fish oil capsules, as they typically aren't even kept refrigerated.

"I'm not going to sit here and say I'm right and everyone else is wrong, end of story, but I wouldn't mind seeing specifically what the doctors or studies are saying to support this."

You can read Dr. Rudin's comments or read his entire book on the subject. Also read comments by Dr. Joanna Budwig.

"For example, 44 people with a variety of health problems were involved in a long-term study involving flaxseed oil in the early 1980's. The researcher, Dr. Donald Rudin, wanted to test flaxseed oil's effects on different diseases. Dr. Rudin found that while on flaxseed oil, one subject's high blood pressure disappeared completely, while several others were able to drastically reduce the amount of their medications. Interestingly, those patients with low blood pressure also had normal readings after taking flaxseed oil. Virtually everyone felt less anxious, and the dozen or so patients with severe mental illness showed great improvement as well. Patients with rheumatoid arthritis reported that their symptoms were less severe while on flaxseed oil, as did those with food allergies and joint problems. Other health conditions reported by the subjects and helped with flaxseed oil included migraine headaches, irritable bowel syndrome, urinary tract infections, and menopausal problems. Dr. Rudin's work was especially remarkable because it covered such a wide range of health conditions, and also because nearly all of his 44 patients showed vast improvement while supplementing with flaxseed oil." ........................

"Flaxseed oil also rich in lignans

Flaxseed is not only rich in essential fatty acids, but it also contains more lignans than any other plant on Earth. Lignans are technically known as phytochemicals and are found in the cell matrix of plants. Flaxseed contains anywhere from 100 to 800 times the lignans found in other foods. Lignans are like essential fatty acids in that their presence can greatly improve our health. Lignans have been found to have antibacterial, antifungal and antiviral properties, and recently studies are focusing on lignans' role in preventing different types of cancer including breast cancer"

http://www.budwigflax.com/Articles/Fabulous%20Facts.htm

http://www.nutrition4health.org/NOHAnews/NNW91FlaxseedNeglectedFood.htm

"i take flax and borage oil together"

I suggest that you stop taking the borage oil, and increase your flaxseed oil consumption instead.

"Because GLA can be formed from linoleic acid, it is difficult to determine the extent the effects are due to GLA vs. linoleic acid. Most sources of GLA are much richer in linoleic acid than GLA. For example, evening primrose contains only 9 percent GLA, but contains 72 percent linoleic acid. "

"A recent clinical study demonstrated that approximately 1.5 tablespoons of flaxseed oil increased tissue levels of EPA com-parable to those levels achieved in studies using fish oils. The key to achieving high tissue levels with flaxseed oil is restricting omega-6 oil intake. To do this, simply eliminate or avoid vegetable oils rich in linoleic acid. The results of this recent study are significant for several reasons with the most important being that flaxseed oil can be used instead of fish oils. "

Now read the full article.See in the chart how much omega 6 fats are in borage oil(both LA and GLA).

http://www.barleans.com/literature/flax/29-flaxseed-best-source.html

Do you believe it would it be wise to take a combination of both flax seed oil and fish oil?

Those who prefer fish oil seem to focus on the cardiovascular benefits of larger doses EPA and DHA and aren't concerned about ALA, while those who prefer flaxseed oil are more focused on ALA and the body's other uses for ALA than just making EPA and DHA ,and feel that those without cardiovascular issues may be better served by taking flaxseed oil. The next question is if you do take both(as some websites recommend) should they be taken together or as far apart as possible?

I got my ALAs wrong, yes. Sorry about that.

I've had a talk with my naturopath and I've reviewed the archives on some of the nutrition/heaing lists I belong to. I'd like to present what the facts are, according to these sources and what I have generally learned over the past few years. My naturopath has been in practice for many years and she uses diet, supplements, and other forms of alternative medicine to heal some very ill people. I know she knows her stuff. This may not mean much to people here but I would just ask you to consider what I'm saying and try to weigh everything up before you make up your mind about what supplements are best.

You can't pick and choose, ALA or DHA/EPA. The body needs all of these things. EPA and DHA are in especially short supply in modern diets, and this problem is exacerbated by the n-3/n-6 ratio in the typical Western diet. It ought to be 1:4 to 1:1 but is often as much as 1:10 or even 1:20.

These compounds are important not only for cardiovascular health, but for the health and structure of the whole body, including the brain. They don't just target a certain set of symptoms or a certain system in the body. I have never personally noticed a huge difference in taking fish oil. It didn't give me a "wow" factor, it didn't lift my depression. Most supplements don't work that way unless there was a big deficiency to begin with. Everything works in concert to keep our bodies working they way they should, and to keep us healthy. I know that if I take fish oil I am far less likely to suffer conditions like heart disease or alzheimer's further down the road.

Flax oil is high in n-6. The ratio in it is 6:1 n-6 to n-3. You cannot therefore say that flax oil is beneficial if you keep your n-6 intake low, you cannot keep it as low as it needs to be if you are taking the flax oil regularly.

When ALA is ingested, about 5% of it is converted to EPA. Less than 2% is converted to DHA. People who say it doesn't matter, especially about the DHA, honestly don't know what they are talking about. As I stated above, these compounds are necessary to the body. Humans have been eating fish and seafood for a very long time, getting their EPA and DHA that way, and they are usually present in a 1:1 ratio in these foods. Nowadays, manufacturers of many supplements tinker with these amounts, making various claims for their efficacy. But no one knows better than nature.

How did Rudin get the results he did in his study? There is very little info on the internet about him or his book and I cannot find the details to study. However, I do know that there have literally been hundreds of other studies done which show that the conversion of ALA to EPA and DHA is inefficient for everyone. I would have to ask why this study of 20-odd years ago is the exception. Was it a fluke? Were there special conditions? You could of course choose to go with what this study says if you were keen to justify the use of flax oil over fish oil in your mind, after all fish oil isn't cheap and it isn't vegetarian, but you'd be ignoring a lot of other sources of information out there.

Carlson's fish oil is one of the purest available. I would also trust Dr. Mercola's recommendation of the krill oil. I would not buy a cheaper supplement off the shelf because I would be concerned about its purity, its EPA/DHA balances, etc. If you are concerned about the capsules then take the oil. The manufacturers of these particular products are aware of concern about heavy metals and if you research them you will find that they take care to make sure there is very little contamination in their stocks.

My own recommendation would be to take fish oil. Flax oil as well if you like, though I would stay away from it purely because of the overabundance of omega-6 in it. Sometimes, in order to be therapeutic in healing, it's necessary to take larger amounts of fish oil than a person would be able to ingest just from eating fish. It truly is wonderful stuff.

Linda.

Again, it depends what the emphasis is. For those with high blood pressure or high cholesterol, fish oil(salmon oil is probably the best one) is an important supplement. For others without those conditions, flaxseed oil is probably a better supplement. As for using both, that may also be reasonable. I noticed that flaxseed oil is also available mixed with fish oil and borage oil, or mixed with borage oil. This conflicts with my previous statement that taking borage oil with flaxseed oil doesn't make sense. I guess these are all practical options.

http://www.barleans.com/total_omega.asp
http://www.barleans.com/omegatwin.asp

I also noticed that one needs to choose the high lignin flaxseed oil if tthey are interested in lignans, as the lignans are filtered out from the normal oil. The flaxseed oil I have is not the high lignan variety. I guess the next bottle I buy will probably be the high lignan variety.

I have no personal investment in this discussion. I thought I would add what I knew so that people here could make more informed decisions.

I have to ask, though, whether you actually paid attention to what I said above. EPA and DHA are crucially important for everyone and if people aren't getting them through eating fish then they need to supplement. it is not an optional extra if someone wants to be healthy. It's like saying you only need magnesium if you get heart palpitations, or you should only worry about vitamin C if you have scurvy. If you doubt me there is an absolute mountain of info about EPA, DHA and fish oil out there. Have a look.

Linda.

"My own recommendation would be to take fish oil. Flax oil as well if you like, though I would stay away from it purely because of the overabundance of omega-6 in it."

Only 14% of the fat in flaxseed oil is LA. 58% of the fat in flaxseed oil is ALA. ALA is an essential fat.

http://www.barleans.com/literature/flax/29-flaxseed-best-source.html

Here is the nutritional composition of salmon oil.

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20AC.html

Here is the composition of flaxseed oil.

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c21xq.html

Flaxseed oil has over 12 grams of omega 3 fats in a 200 calories serving. Salmon oil has 7.825 grams of omega 3 fats.
Notice that of all the fish oils, salmon oil has by far the highest pecentage of its fats being omega 3 fats.

http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-000140000000000000000.html


Salmon oil is around 34% omega 3.

I'm getting a little exasperated that you are not addressing most of the points I have brought up. Is everything you are saying on here based on these web pages you have been reading?

Yes ALA is essential, I haven't said it isn't. I have said that the body converts very little of it into EPA and DHA, both of which are also essential in larger amounts than what is provided by flax seed oil.

I don't purport to know enough about the chemistry of fats, or the specific details about all kinds of omega fats, to be able to comment knowledgeably about your assertion that flax seed oil has 12 grams of omega-3. I can only guess that these fats must not specifically be EPA and DHA as flax seed oil does not contain these and most people are aware of this.

Can I ask why you are so keen on salmon oil?

I guess you only have my word that much of what I say comes from an experienced naturopathic doctor who has read the literature and the studies in this subject for years, has tried and tested many different supplements to come up with what she feels works best for her patients, and is fully aware of how these substances are utilised in the body. If you want to dismiss that in favour of what you see on these links you are presenting then that's fine. I've added my two cents here and people can make their minds up as they like.

Linda.

"Yes ALA is essential, I haven't said it isn't. I have said that the body converts very little of it into EPA and DHA, both of which are also essential in larger amounts than what is provided by flax seed oil."

That is debatable. Many would disagree with that, especially for those who do not have high blood pressure or high cholesterol.

"Can I ask why you are so keen on salmon oil?"

If you are taking fish oil to get EPA and DHA, then why not choose the oil that has the highest percentage of its fats from EPA and DHA. In addition to having less EPA and DHA than salmon oil, some of the other fish oils may have much higher levels of mercury and other polutants.

What are your sources for this information? I can understand that from others' point of view here, I am relaying information from a naturopathic doctor that may or may not be reliable. From my own point of view, which I know at least a few people here will have some trust in, I am totally convinced of this person's reliability and knowledge and unlike most other doctors, I know I can trust what she says because she does her research. I find it frustrating that this seems to be completely irrelevant to you JNY. If someone were posting here and citing this as their source of info I would at least perk up and think hmm, this is what an expert thinks, maybe it's worth considering.

It is not impossible to find other sources on the web also saying that little EPA and DHA are made from ALA in the body, including the Mercola site. There's also a surprising amount of misinformation around. Many places sell flax seed oil claiming it's got similar omega-3 benefits to fish oil, and it doesn't. The omega-3 it contains is ALA, not DHA and EPA. Many will also sell omega-6 supplements, usually in conjunction with other things like omega-3 and omega-9; and while omega-6 is also essential, it is overabundant in almost everyone's diet and is only likely to make sick people sicker. What is more, as another example, many reputable vitamin companies will sell supplements that combine magnesium with calcium even though the calcium will prevent absorption of the magnesium. I personally feel very lucky to have access to expert advice that can help me to see what's helpful and what isn't when it comes to supplements.

You also seem to be convinced that EPA and DHA are only important when it comes to cardiovascular health. This is not the case. I don't understand why your attitudes seem to be so intractable and dogmatic. You don't seem to want to take on board anything I have said. Are you a vegetarian?

Linda.

"many reputable vitamin companies will sell supplements that combine magnesium with calcium even though the calcium will prevent absorption of the magnesium"

We already discussed this. Do you think the vitamin makers don't know that?

"Many places sell flax seed oil claiming it's got similar omega-3 benefits to fish oil, and it doesn't. "

Not exactly similar, but different. Is it better to eat a carrot or broccoli? Shall we debate that? Why not eat both? Fish oil can't provide ALA. How much EPA and DHA do we really need, and how efficiently is ALA converted to those? Many websites differ greatly on their opinion. I have admitted that taking both fish oil and flaxseed oil may be useful. Why can't you admit the same? I don't consider myself an expet on this topic, however I have read many websites recently on the flaxseed oil vs fish oil debate. Most articles lean one way or the other. A few do advise people to take both though. The argument for flaxseed oil is cost, the body's other uses of ALA besides making EPA and DHA, lignins present in high lignan flaxseed oil, and possible pollution or contamination(or rancidity) in fish oils. the argument for fish oil is that the conversion to EPA and DHA might not be that great, and some people might even lack the enzyme to do the conversion and not convert any. The flaxseed advocates say that people can eat fatty fish to get fish oils. Some people don't eat fish though. After my recent research into mercury in fish and the low levels I saw in salmon, sardines and herring, I am now not afraid to start eating those again. I like that idea better than taking fish oil supplements.

"Are you a vegetarian?"

I guess I would describe myself as a vegetarian who cheats?. I actually ate meat today, my first meat meal in over two months. I have not eaten fish in over two months, but plan to start eating fish again soon. I eat eggs, yogurt, and cottage cheese.
I think it is okay for people to eat meat as long as the animal is slaughtered humanely. My issue is that the average person in the US eats way too much meat. Perhaps many eat meat in over 10 meals a week. Limiting meat to less than 4 meals a week imo makes great sense.

Do I think the vitamin makers don't know that calcium interferes with magnesium absorption? Well obviously many of them don't know that because they sell the two combined as a supplement. We already know not to give all-knowing god-like status to doctors, is it wise to give this status to vitamin-makers? Some companies make some truly awful products with cheap and nasty ingredients. Some of them sell things that are unnecessary to take, or even harmful.

I did say that I can't see any reason not to take ALA, and I don't dispute the health properties you've said it has. I have said several times that EPA and DHA are vital to human health and that flax oil does not provide these in the quantities we need. If you don't want to believe that, that's absolutely fine. Others reading this can decide for themselves.

Linda.