I feel we're going around in circles a bit here. I'd also like to trim this down a little. By now I expect you to say that you are more of an authority on the Bible than anyone else here, and to use this to try to remove people's credibility. I know the Bible too. I fully understand you believe that you see all kinds of things in it that I don't, but it's ignoring the fact that I am capable of reading, using my brain, and researching where I feel it is appropriate. Woe to me then, eternally destined to miss the point unless I become initiated in your style of religion. It's very difficult to discuss anything with someone who actually holds this point of view because you are unlikely to take much, if anything, of what I say as valid. Nevertheless, for the sake of debate, I think I'll keep posting anyway because other people are reading.

You're really keen to divorce yourself from any association with the Catholic church, even in the past. OK. I don't feel a burning need to debate what you say about that anymore because as far as I'm concerned it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, it's Christians quibbling with each other. (No doubt you'd say I'm wrong there too. So be it.)

You think homosexuality is a sin. I think this iposition shows pure bigotry and intolerance. There's a lot of that on hand from so-called caring Christians here. We've both stated our views, no point in repeating them is there. Let our words speak for themselves and others be the judges.

You say you don't see much logic in believing that complex things form themselves and science agrees with your position. No it doesn't. Bring this point up in the Creationism thread and I will discuss it with you.

I don't doubt your ability to deal with con artists. Evolutionists are not con artists. They are not conspirators. You want to believe this and have convinced yourself because you don't like the way their science challenges your literal beliefs of the Bible.

Prophecy. Again. I have said several times here what I think of this. You can look at any prophecy made in the past and put together a fat dossier that you think is convincing evidence for it to be true. There are actually several not-so-divine ways a prophecy can be fulfilled:

1. The "prophecy" can be written or modified after the events fulfilling it have already occurred.

2. The prophecy can be so vague that people can interpret any outcome as a fulfillment. Nostradomus's prophecies are of this type, and it works particularly well when people are religiously motivated to believe the prophecies.

3. The prophecy can predict something that is almost sure to happen, such as the collapse of a city. Since nothing lasts forever, the city is sure to fall someday. If it has not, it can be said that according to the prophecy, it will.

4. One can of course claim that the fulfilling events occurred even if they have not. Or, more commonly, one can forget that the prophecy was ever made.

5. A person can act deliberately to satisfy a known prophecy.

Would you like me to give examples? I would have thought these things were already fairly obvious.

Cruelty is born from those who hold myths as truths. Did you actually say this Russ? You hold what most of the world sees as Biblical myths as literal truths.

Imperfection/making mistakes, and violating God's laws, are only the same if you are a theist.

Thanks to both you and SoSick for trying to explain the mind of God, because clearly you have much insight into this and the rest of us ignorant fools need enlightening. This has got to be one of the most incredibly arrogant and self-righteous attitudes I've ever had the displeasure to come across.

Linda.