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#22858 08/09/07 06:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Never mind the evolution, what we all need is a revolution.
The chemtrailin goin on this country which hardly anabody sees (or refuses to believe even when it's pointed out) is just appalling.
We got Tracy with high aluminium, Lindalou with heavy sinus prollems, both in the Midlands, coincidentally the area a highest concentration a chemtrailin in this country?
Whats in a chemtrail? Aluminium, barium an the devil knows what all else. Anybody with heavy metal issues is obviously gonna be more susceptible. All the folks Ah know with not so perky immune systems round about here have sore throats an upper respiratory prollems.
Not convinced? Looky here:
http://www.chemtrailsuk.net/index.html
Nother one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VLNNwiKvlE
Iffen y'all are completely new to the subject this is a must:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=189714131
look at the second film.
Whats the point a chelation an everthang else if
y'all are gonna be poisoned goin outdoors?

All successful revolutions are achieved from the bottom up .
Bottoms up!

#22859 08/09/07 06:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
It's a prollem. Do you see these trees? (photo below). Just about anywhere you go these days at higher elevations, the tallest trees that catch the winds at the top of mountains are dead or dying. They want to tell you it's some bug causing that but I am telling you it is not a bug. Bugs may be involved for sure, the trees are vulnerable when they are sick. But it is not just one species of tree that is affected and the species of trees that they claim the bugs are hurting, are fine and dandy just 50 or 100 feet below the mountain tops, where they are sheltered from the wind. It is definitely the poison wind and crap in the clouds killing these trees.

<img src="http://herballure.com/ubbthreads/attach/240757-12.jpg">

This btw, is a truly devastating scene in real life, the photo only gives you an inkling of the real situation. You go up there, and you look around, and for miles and miles and miles, dead trees, hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of them.

#22860 08/09/07 07:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
Thanks for this Elvis. It is shocking and is it any wonder people today are ailing? We maybe living longer, but is there quality of life...? at what cost?

I think one could go mad thinking about all this and what humans are up against, we're hit from just about every angle. THe body can actually handle an incredible amount, but everyone has their limits and some are already weakened from the word go, so they do not have the immunity to handle what others can.

I am apparently toxic with formaldehyde and got told to remove my curtains from my room....There has been no change. Who knows where I'm getting it, it's in so many things. Could even be my own leaky composites in my own mouth!

IT seems with me that though one cannot stop exposure externally that the mouth/jaw are one of the most common areas where a person is exposed to a concentrated toxin 24/7. Couple that with external exposures...and sprayed foods and no wonder people go over their limit. And then of course viruses/bacteria and yeast and a body that cannot properly deal with them.

A doctor here said to me you can get someone that can have quite a lot of exposure to one toxin and their body will do all it can to deal with this and seemingly they can go along "ok" until one extra problem happens and then suddenly they become symptomatic with toxic poisoning...


#22861 08/09/07 07:12 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Is this a hippy forum?
It is easy to sit back and complain about all the problems in the world from the comfort of your computers, while you go out in your cars and pollute the air or go eat fast food and keep piling up thrash.
Unless you come from a third world country where everyday you had to ask yourself, really ask yourself, am I going to eat today then no, stop the hypocrisy

#22862 08/09/07 07:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Welp, Ah ain't just bellyachin here, Ah want to DO somethin about this atrocity an am open to all ideas a how to get this message out there.
Already been emailin the president a the soil association who happens to live in ma lil hometown but he seems to think these are just fuel spewin regular planes.


#22863 08/09/07 07:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
piss off anon.
Ah guess if we drive cars we should let the powers that be control the very air we breathe (not to mention ensuing floods/ drought caused, heavy metals exposure, etc. etc.) oh yep, sounds like a fair trade.
Hippys?
an Ah don't pile up "thrash", or eat fast food, those poor folks in poor countries won't be eatin much once the weather is controlled by big brother, an neither will we.

#22864 08/09/07 07:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
Anon, why are you on an amalgam forum? Dont you think you better take a good spoonful of your own advice? You're not really making much sense.

Most people on here are very ill and dont get far from the computer because of toxic illness....so what's your point? I dont even eat fastfood, I hardly drive because I'm too sick anyway. Most people here are living as cleanly as they can to try and lessen the load, but we are a little at the mercy of the environment as well. Not much one can do about that unfortunately.

Yet another person who has to come under the anon name in order to spew venom. Hippy forum? Gotta wonder why you're on here yourself.... Or do you just enjoy making snide remarks for the fun of it?


#22865 08/09/07 07:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
It's probably just pariah jill, come to do her bit of complacent status quo dumbing down to get a lick from the teacher.

Jill... driving cars does not cause this... eating at Mcdonalds does not cause this... personal computers do not cause this... and none of us profit from it. It is pariahs like you who enable it to continue however and line the pockets of the fat rich boys at the top of the human pyramid. We are just serfs born into this predicament yet we are not at the bottom of the caste system yet. We have a right to complain since we, the serfs, pay the way of the pariah pilots who fly the smog generating jets, and even the way of general who commands them to do so.

Third world nations tend to quite heavily polluted these days, so tossing that one into the air is simply a slap back in your own face as it returns to you. The pariahs of those nations kill their serfs outright a good part of the time, simply with sub-machine guns. You should find yourself an abode in one of those and practice your status quo legalism till it gets you a lick from a AK47.

#22866 08/09/07 08:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
Jill or not Jill , couldn't have said it better myself. I know a lady that is that chemically sensitive and so ill she has to almost remain indoors during the times of the pesticide spraying. Even then she gets almost crippled bysymptoms and plenty of times has had to leave and live elsewhere until it's over with.

She seems to be able to handle the exhaust toxins from cars just fine (unless of course one goes and sucks directly on it). Not to say all this is not contributing to the toxic world we live in, but COME ON. What do you suggest anon? Horse and cart?

I think the main problems are the chemical spraying going on. And are we people responsible for the way things have been set up? Whose in charge and behind the scenes in all these things?

#22867 08/09/07 08:13 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Several types of houseplants will chemically react with formaldehyde in the air and thus get rid of it . I'm not sure but I think ferns , which have been here tens of millions of years incidentally, since the dinosaurs, will detox formaldehyde as well as other household chemicals.

#22868 08/09/07 08:14 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Furniture that is particle board rather than solid wood is a major source of formaldehyde.

#22869 08/09/07 08:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
I dont quite swallow the tens of millions of years time frame (as you know), but appreciate this helpful hint. I have "one" house plant.....so I may get some more.

Have mainly solid wood furniture, but for sure there is enough of the other in this place as well. Curtains, furniture etc, maybe the cause of this....surely everybody tested would show the same?

Thanks again.

#22870 08/10/07 12:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
All furntiture quality commercial wood, particle board core or solid wood end products, are treated with formaldehyde. I do keep lots and lots of plants in the house during winter when the windows are shut a lot. Big potted palms, stuff of that nature. Maybe just psychological but makes me feel better. Like a tropical garden in here in winter.

That is how I actually first noticed the mold in the house btw... I saw spots on some of the leaves and took a closer look.

The chemtrails are nasty though. I see them spraying in the distance over the local towns from my vantage point. Sometimes it'll spread this way, sometimes not. I have gone out early in the morning sometimes on beautiful crystal clear blue sky days and watched in utter horror as jets far off in the distance grid the skies and turn them into complete grey sunless smog filled days.

And Al Gore wants me to believe it's global warming causing problems.

What's in a name.

#22871 08/10/07 02:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,977
Master Elite Member
**
Why is it an insult nowadays to be called a hippy? A friend of ours called us "the hippy parents" and I think it's true in some ways. Is the implication here that hippies moan about things but don't actually do anything? I don't think that's the case.

My sinus problems always eased up when I've been on holiday to countrified places. They've been worst when I've lived in suburbia. No coincidence there. Have to keep dreaming about that cottage by a mountain in Scotland.

Linda.

#22872 08/10/07 07:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 928
Elite Member
**
These Anons in my opinion cannot have anything wrong with them. What the hell do they come on for. Get a b******y life and find some other hobby weirdo. Thats not all Anons some are kind, these are monsters Tracy

#22873 08/10/07 10:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
99.9% sure anon here is our pariah jill. She was simply angrily mulling the idea of hippy from another thread and projected it back here on Elvis in an attempt to balance the scales apparently.

It's the hippy idea lifestyle of pot smoking and acid tripping dna damaged children.... dirty long hair and lice... sandles and fithy feet..unshaved armpits and no deodorant. etc.

#22874 08/10/07 11:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,977
Master Elite Member
**
Do I detect a slight hint of a stereotype?

#22875 08/10/07 11:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
Yes of course.

I am making a movie about hippies. Funny, if there's no long hair, there's no hippies... if there's no pot smoking, it's out of context... you know, vw bus the whole shebang so other hippes can relate!!

#22876 08/10/07 12:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
I even got Abbey Road for the soundtrack... some Janice Joplin... was going to add some Doors and Jimi Hendrix in there but not sure we need the heavty duty acid rock stuff, a lot of parents might be answering really uncomfortable questions about that if we get too truthful!!

Were you even born in 1969 Linda? Do you remember things like woodstock, Kent state, the riots?? I was just a kid but old enough to be able to remember. hard to forget actually, a pretty traumatic time for the country...

#22877 08/10/07 03:12 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
If you are exposed to toxic levels of formaldehyde BEX, your eyes typically are itchy and watery . Perhaps this will go away if you add some plants.

#22878 08/10/07 03:22 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Actually Einstein, I'm not anon. We probably are'nt even posting from the same citiy. If you think particle board and solid wood are equally toxic ,you're mistaken.



#22879 08/10/07 03:25 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
I have a problem with the idea that a govt conspiracy is behind these chemtrails because most members of govt and their families breathe.

Someone told me that burning sage will greatly decrease mold as well as get rid of most insects.

#22880 08/10/07 04:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Ladies!
Ah was hopin to escape the bitchery ( sorry, no other word for it ) started on the evolution thread, could y'all start a seperate argument thread for those enjoyin that kinda time-wastin pursuit?
Could anabody please give any sensible ideas for workin together on this ? Does anabody care about mass poisonin and climate control without our sayso?
This human prollem a people havin to nitpick their differences ad infinitum is what allows this whole practise to go on unopposed.
So jill, only an eejit or a blind person would deny that the chemtrailin is goin on so what do you think is behind these chemtrails iffen y'all even acknowledge its happenin?
The government functions on a need to know basis and the peons doin the dirty work , welp, who knows what all they think they are doin.
The folks behind it are prolly breathin easy on big estates somewheres they don't spray on the false assumption that we are not all connected, Ah guess they ain't Buddhists.
Fact is, anabody with eyes can see it's happenin. What are we gonna do about it? Waste energy on arguin about the anons?
SS, maybe y'all could start a seperate thread on your hippy movie, but Ah can't stand the idea a doin nothin but arguin when us toxic folks ought to be the ones makin a stink for once.

#22881 08/10/07 05:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 928
Elite Member
**
Elvis I couldnt agree more. I know Im grieving at the moment but all this arguing is not getting anyone anywhere. Whatever, we are all fighting for the same cause, as you know I just lost my sister cos basically she couldnt breathe cos of all the crap, pollution, whatever. We're not fighting each other, we're fighting for a cleaner world. Maybe we can't make a difference, but surely thats something we all agree about. Guys lets stick together. Love Tracy xx

#22882 08/10/07 06:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
The hippie movie was a great success!! No overdoses, just a few close calls.

I do stink Elvis, and I make a stink daily. The Daily Stink of my toxic flush. The Daily Stink. I should trademark that. Would make a great publication of some toxic sort.

My stink is nothing compared to the manure and biting flies of 6 billion horses and buggies though.

I have some ideas in regard to planes and oops no planes but I don;t think I can psot things like that publicly. It will eventually come to that anyway. people can only take so so much.

No I do not own a gun. I am pretty good with lectronics and digital things though. I think you have to know the enemy to defeat the enemy, would you say? Woodstock led to Jamfest.

What we do is this. We get a really really big metal box. And we wire it so that it has surround sound and imaging on every wall, even the ceiling. And then we get 5 wide angle camera lenses and we mount them outside the box in corresponding angles to every side of the big box. Then we move in!!! We turn it on and it has a sky both night and day, and views all around and we think hey this is reality what a nice world we live in!! when the planes fly over we just playback the clean sky scene from earlier in the day and no one is the wiser!

#22883 08/10/07 06:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Could y'all please not hijack this thread for more lavatorial verbose meanderings?

#22884 08/10/07 07:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
What, you don't like that idea? here try this one. When the planes are flying overhead doing their nasty business, claim your airspace. Now, they have to be exactly directy overhead for this to work properly.

What you do is this. First, you go buy a few cansiters of helium, some nylon or other filament string, you'll need a whole bunch of string, and a few hundred medium size balloon, normal balloons are fine or you can get the heavier helium grade type. Ideallly your balloons should be colored blue and white to match the color of the sky, you might get some grey ones to match the color of the plumes too.

then you invite all your friends over for cousin cindy's birthday party.

You and your friends fill up your balloons with helium and ty them 5 or 6 each to a piece of string about the length of two or three football fields. You need A LOT of string.

As you see the planes headed your way the balloons will somehow start getting loose from where you tied them somehow or another, that just always happens, it's murphy's law. Hundred of balloons headed skyward marking a vertical grid to compare to the horiziontal grid that the jets are laying in the air.

it's a lot like 3d chess.

Or you could have a really big kite party too. Jet pilots love to see kites in their paths. I like smiley face kites best, kinda friendly.

#22885 08/10/07 07:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Your toxic cynicism is wearing thin and very boring, does anabody else like the sound of your voice as much as you do?
Ah forget, y'all still got your fillins in .
Come back when you can play nice or have somethin worthwhile to say.
Couldn't ya stick to the evolution thread?
Had to come over here to get some fresh air.
Thought y'all had better things to do?
Y'all are beginning to remind me a the other kind a floater.

#22886 08/10/07 08:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
ya think?

Oh ok. It wasn't really my idea anyway, just gleaned it off of some search for UFO's website.

Never fly kites in the vicinty of helicopters btw, someone could actually get hurt.

#22887 08/10/07 09:33 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered


THIS IS NOT A CHAT ROOM

DISCUSS HEALTH ISSUES AND REMEDIES


THANKYOU

#22888 08/10/07 10:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
Well that's nice.

sorry I am such a pain in the behind to ya all week Elvis. I am stuck in the house while this tooth or lack of it heals up, a couple more days and I will hop on my bike.

Serious though, the spraying is not going on everywhere, far as I can tell mostly just the more populated areas. Bex would know about N Zealand, Jinx would know about Poland. you have only a few options.. 1 - shoot the planes down, obviously not going to happen so then 2 - move away from the cities... or 3 -hide in a cave with a real good air filter

none of which are a perfect solution because wind floats around and shooting down the jets will probably land you in prison thus the end of your life which you are trying to save from torture not vice versa.

I saw them for a couple days here during early summer directly overhead. I really think it was just a new pilot in the wrong place though, never saw them again here since then. I do see them about 30-50 miles away in the distance regularly, near populated areas. I hate going into town.

It's been going on for at least several years, that's how long ago I noticed it first, but how long actually I am not sure.

hope you are feeling better. No remedies for ya sarg, unfortunately.

#22889 08/10/07 11:31 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 790
Elite Member
****
I am with you Elvis, these discussions are a complete waste of time and space. I can't even be bothered to read them anymore.

Sandi
xoxo

#22890 08/11/07 06:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Yep, Ah'm so- sick a the condescendin vitriolic hound doggin,too (an thats a insult to a hound dog)
Welp, Ah never started a thread before an Ah foolishly thought folks might care about their so -called civil liberties an the future a the planet for our children. Don't mind mahself if Ah go skywards in the near future but this ain't about that.
Anabody actually watch these here videos? Ah feel like the man sittin at his piano ( a modern day fiddlin while Rome burns) talkin about how he sure as heck learned a lot about human beins over the whole chemtrail issue, like how some folks just want their beer an peanuts an thats a life. ( film 3 , an no, he didn't mention beer an peanuts , ) Ah just wonder how people like y'all can stand to do nuthin whilst we're bein poisoned all over again, leastaways with the merc poisonin in the teeth , y'all can get them removed. Plus, ya know the enemy.
An typically, SS ,ya know NOTof what ya spout, chemtrails are all over the planet,( there ya go bein smug again,) we are ALL affected by these strands a shite, y'all just might not see them so clear .Anaways if it ain't on your blessed mountain then Ah guess thats fine.
Ah was naiively hopin for some kinda networkin ideas, not the usual dissension some folks call a discussion resultin in more hot air. Leastaways even Jill had somethin pertinant to say.
Welp, thought Ah'd be leanin on an open door hereabouts ( i.e. preachin to the converted), but boy was Ah wrong.
Kinda makes me depressed , what hope have we got when a bunch a toxicity aware people would rather descend inta playground nonsensicalities.
Mah dog has more sense.
P.S. SS, iffen it's your idea a passin time to get on mah bluetits, why don't ya just private message me then the whole dang forum don't have to read your nonsense, y'all can guess whether or not Ah'm gonna read it. But Ah spect y'all love an audience, even a hostile one. Can you fix that?

#22891 08/11/07 06:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
Funny thing is Jill, I dont seem to have ANY symptoms in the eyes... (except recently, we just had a heat pump system put through the house). Not sure what has caused the sudden stinging eyes, but I "assume" it's from all the drilling through paint/jib that did it (and some welding maybe) from the guys putting it in.

I cannot imagine it's anything to do with teh heat pump itself, it's only taking the heat from the fresh air outside and pumping it through the house.

Does anybody have any idea why my eyes would sting since this was put in? I'm HOPING it's just from the drilling/welding and perhaps there have been a release of very tiny particles/chemicals/metals in the air that is irritating the very sensitive membrane in the eyes.

But other than this? I have not really had eye symptoms, so that has made me have second thought sabout this formaldehye thing. Also I think formaldehye is released from yeast too apparently?? And surely most of us would show formaldehye on testing?

(The plant idea is a non toxic and totally natural answer). Though I am lazy and useless with plants (never been into them at all), I am starting to think that i am going to have to force myself a little.)


#22892 08/11/07 12:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
I am not getting on yer bluetits Elvis. And I do realize you are not well, and I sympathize. I actually like the balloon idea, it would make a great protest if people organized and actually did it in cities when spraying is going on. Sure is simple enough. I did a lot of searching once for NASA photos from the space station that would show chemtrail activity. There is some available. But not as much as I would have liked. The thing is, from what I found the spraying did seem to be concentrated in certain areas.

Near Dallas Texas there have been quite a number of reports of something they call 'Morgellan's' disease, which people are blaming on the chemtrail activity. There have been floods in Texas all summer. But there is also a lot of chemtrail activity in Georgia, where there is an awful drought going on. The drought and floods are recent, the heavy duty chemtrail activity in those two areas has been going on for some time. Difficult to say if they are trying to affect weather since the two areas are so polariized in their weather. It hasn't rained in Los Angelos in a really long time. If chemtrails were the answer to rain and weather control it would have happened by now. In China, people use anti-aircraft missle launchers to fire silver nitrate into the clouds, expecting it to help bring more rain. Maybe that does work... they have had severe flooding.

The anons come here to flame, not really within my scope to stop them and it doesn't seem to matter what the context is anyway, they flame and spew their anger in almost every thread here, you know that. Just the human condition, need to learn to put with that, it's everyhere.

But the spraying isn't here on our blessed mountain, as you say, though we do feel the effects of it and other pollution anyway, the trees are your proof.

Maybe there is some dust in the ductwork Bex? You can get different grades of intake filters. the thick white ones with the v-shaped grooves are better. I usually leave the windows open for at least a full 30 minutes when first turning on the heat pump or central air in fall or summer after it's been off for a couple months. Mites and mold are known to hide in the ductwork too, though you wouldn't have that with new work, you might downline. There are sprays you can use for the intake to help that, but again important to leave the windows open for a bit to help with the intial dust that comes out of the ducts. Let it run a bit to clean itself out while you take a walk.

Do you have chemtrail activity where you live, Bex? I am not suggesting your symptoms are due to it, just wondering if it's happening there too.


#22893 08/11/07 02:25 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Troll Alert: do you folks think what I think of today's posts?

Troll's purpose is to be given more credibility than (s)he really
deserves, and to suck people into useless, pointless, neverending,
emotionally draining ranting discussions full of verbal loops
and "word labyrinths", playing people against each other, hurting
their feelings, and wasting their time, emotional energy and this
website's bandwidth. This is a real bully online.

Here is link to an article that, in my opinion, contains a key to
better understanding of some posts that appeared today on this forum:
http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm
<< What is a troll?
The term "troll" can mean a number of different things, but in
essence, a troll is a person who aims to have 'pleasure' at your
expense. There are two main types of trolls:
people who are psychologically disturbed, and seek to feel good by
making other list members feel bad. This is a sort of "psycho troll",
whose deception involves deceiving themselves as well as others. In
this respect, they are no different to the sorts of people we meet in
everyday life who are disturbed - some of them are easy to spot, and
others aren't. Such people may even use their real names on the
internet, and they may not even realise that they are "trolling"
because it is all subconscious.
people who pretend to be someone that they are not - they create
personae that you think are real, but they know is fictitious.
The rest of this web page concentrates on the second type of troll.

The Game of Trolling
Trolling is like playing chess - there is a point to the game, and
that point is to win. Unlike chess, though, there are various ways of
winning for the internet troll. These might include:
-gaining credence for false and invidious ideas
-driving bona fide list members, and/or particular groups, out of the
mailing list
-dominating the list with messages/posts that they have generated
-gaining recognition or an award for their trolling from fellow
trollers
-getting reprimanded by individuals, list managers or internet
authorities
-gaining the confidence, trust and support of bona fide list members
-distracting list members from their own bona fide discussions or
objectives.
-gaining attention that they cannot get using their real
personalities
Sometimes trolls operate alone, and sometimes they operate in groups,
but for all of them trolling is a game. There are newsgroups and
mailing lists that are dedicated to trolls, for them to exchange
techniques and to plan concerted campaigns where they can invade
internet mailing lists. Trolls have no concern for the feelings of
the people with whom they deal. They are often manipulative, clever
and approach their trolling with the same degree of planning and
research as those seeking financial gain, or the same competitiveness
as a serious chess player. For those familiar with Transactional
Analysis (the psychological theory of real-life game playing) there
are many parallels with the activities of trolls: there are many
games, with different types of payoff and different tactics.
Trolling can be played at various levels...
Level one - "Playtime" - This is where the troller is simply out for
the gratification provided by a quick "win". An example of this might
be to join a list with a fictitious name, cause an argument, withdraw
and then boast to friends about what he/she had done. Such trolls are
relatively easy to spot because their attack or provocation is fairly
blatant, and the persona is fairly two-dimensional.

Level two - "Tactical" - This is where the troller takes the game
more seriously, creates a credible persona with which to provoke the
list, and uses recognised techniques or tactics to gain the
confidence and support of individuals on the list. Provocation is
subtle and invidious, so spotting this type of troll is not easy,
because the persona is credible, and off-list email exchanges have
caused you to believe that this person is genuine and trustworthy.

Level three - "Strategic" - This is a very serious form of game,
involving the production of an overall strategy that can take months
or years to develop. It can also involve a number of people acting
together in order to invade a list. Once a list is infested, it can
be nigh impossible to work out who is a troll and who is bona fide.
Level four - "Domination" - This is where the trollers' strategy
extends to the creation and running of apparently bona-fide mailing
lists. In such circumstances, their payoff may be the knowledge that
they are dominating the emotional lives of list members, and is
perhaps one of the ultimate forms of deceit that can be achieved.
It should be noted that trolling games are not restricted to the
internet. Their tactics can also include contacting people in real
life using snail-mail and/or telephone. The boundaries between real-
life con-men and internet trolls are not as clear as they used to be.

Playtime Trolls
Playtime trolls are relatively easy to spot, but they may not be
apparent to the naive user. There isn't a single set of
characteristics that applies to playtime trolls, but you can look for
some or all of the following signs:
-a lack of buy-in to the list philosophy or values
-generally low level of activity, with sudden spurts of interaction -
or perhaps a new persona that has strong opinions on controversial
subjects
-a mixture of friendly posts with a confrontational style of
interaction
-the use of provocative language and sweeping generalisations about
certain topics or categories of people
-a lack of in-depth understanding of the topic
-a lack of personal information
-a lack of a genuinely unique perspective on the topic
-a lack of humour
-restarting topics that have already been done
-use of language that encourages the dialogue to enter topics that
are controversial and likely to upset some team members
-the use of attention-seeking gimmick (e.g.: "I was once exploited by
an XYZ")
-they follow up their own articles if the group doesn't respond to
their posts
-inconsistencies in the style and nature of the post and any
proclaimed information (e.g.: claiming to be a child but writing with
an adult style; claiming to be adult, but writing with a childish
grammatical construction).
-also note that trolls often seem to use free email services (such as
hotmail.com) or have email addresses ending in .edu. However, trolls
could be virtually anyone, and the email address is no guide as to
whether the persona is a bona fide user or not.
To counteract playtime trolls, the best action is to ignore them. If
you are convinced they are trolls, then you can advise the list
manager. However, if other group members respond to the suspected
troll's posts, then you may have to consider some of the responses
outlined for tactical or strategic trolls.

Tactical Trolls
Tactical trolls take much more care and effort over the creation of
their personae. Such trolls are likely to be seen as long term list
members, and have the confidence and trust of the bona fide people on
the mailing list. They use many of the techniques listed for Playtime
Trolls, but in addition:
-They engage in off list email dialogues to gain the confidence and
trust of influential individuals on the list.
-They are friendly and humorous in the posts, to put you at ease with
their persona.
-They have a well-thought-through story such that the persona seems
to be very real. They will give apparently personal and intimate
information, particularly in off list emails.
-They win trust by giving trust. For example, they may hint at
something confidential on-list, but then only reveal the full story
to someone off-list. By bringing someone into their confidence, they
create a feeling of confidence towards them by the individual's
concerned.
In off list emails, they win allies and support for some of their
views. Their offlist emails are subtly manipulative.
They 'set up' bona fide members to argue with each other. Any view,
no matter how outrageous, can be made to sound rational when put in a
certain context. By setting different contexts for different people
offlist, they create a setting whereby they can raise a topic on-
list, in a seemingly innocent manner, and then watch the two list
members argue because they have interpreted the topic/message in very
different ways.
In off-list emails, they use techniques borrowed from NLP and Speed-
Seduction to make people have a great deal of affection for them.
This naturally suppresses any suspicion there might be.
They use gimmicks that win sympathy and bring out the 'nurturing
parent' in other list members, which also suppresses any feelings of
suspicion. E.g.: being blind, handicapped, an orphan, rejected,
bullied etc..
They build up a reasonable knowledge of the topic of the list. This
enables them to take part for some time as apparently bona-fide list
members.
They use language that is carefully constructed to be subtly
invidious. This language is designed to identify two or more separate
groups of people, and encourage list members to identify the negative
traits of those groups. This creates argument and dissent between
list members. Note that subtlety is often their main objective, so
this language is difficult to spot.
They don't enter into the argument directly, but facilitate an
argument between list members, e.g.: by highlighting points that one
list member has made, perhaps in a way that is more confrontational
than the original intention.
They sometimes create a fictitious persona supported by a web-site,
photographs and apparently personal data.
They may suggest meeting up in real-life, but the meeting doesn't
take place.
Many of these behaviours are things that 'real' people would engage
in. It is very difficult to distinguish real people from trolls in an
internet environment. The only method that can be used to verify the
bona fide nature of list members is to investigate their personal
information. Trolls will invent personal information, but when you
investigate it you will keep coming to dead ends. For example, if
their employer is company "xyz", then you may be able to find a web
site at www.xyz.com, but there is no contact information. However,
with bona fide people, their personal information will lead to an
ever-increasing wealth of data, such as:
-if a real person cites "xyz" as the employer, then the web site will
give a phone number;
-the company's phone number will be answered by an operator who will
be able to tell you the person's extension number;
-company xyz may list clients on their web site, whom you can ring up
and verify exist;
-the person may be a member of professional associations;
-you may have met some list members in real life, who will have met
other list members and can therefore vouch for them.
The key difference between a troll and a bona fide list member is
that when you investigate a troll, their personal data usually leads
to dead-ends; when you investigate a bona fide person, their personal
data leads to an ever-expanding set of evidence that they are for
real. There are some tricks that the tactical trolls may use to
deceive you:
Some trolls will exchange some fictitious data - e.g.: phone numbers,
addresses, family details - on the basis that you are not going to
actually ring them.
They may have dedicated personal phone lines that they may use for
the purpose of taking verification phone calls
They will want to hide other personal information, because it can
demonstrate that they are not for real.
Various excuses can be used for not releasing personal information,
including privacy.
There are some bona fide people who do not wish to be traced via the
internet - but this makes it difficult to distinguish trolls from
real people. If in doubt, assume that they are a troll, and don't
simply believe the sophisticated lies that trolls use to hide their
identity. Also, don't rely solely on your intuition - you need to
establish hard data to help find out whether your intuition is for
real.

Strategic Trolls
Strategic trolls often operate in groups, rather than alone. They use
multiple personalities, each of which uses the techniques outlined in
the section on tactical trolls. However, they have an overall
strategy for drawing bona fide list members into argument, ultimately
causing them to leave, or for the trolls to dominate of the group. In
particular:
They have various phases to their strategy, where each phase aims to
achieve different things.
The first phase usually involves establishing multiple personalities
who become recognised as integral members of the group - "friendly
trolls". Don't be deceived by the title - they appear to be friendly
but they have very different hidden motives. Establishing friendly
trolls in a group is a process that can take many months or even
years.
The second phase involves using new personalities to start divisive
threads, in the manner outlined under "Tactical Trolls". In the event
that no list members respond to these threads, other phase two trolls
will respond to them to keep the debate active.
If existing list members have not yet joined in the arguments, the
third phase involves "offensive trolls" attacking their own personae
from the first phase. As these trolls will have built up a lot of
goodwill in the group, other list members will jump to their defence,
and they are therefore drawn in to the argument.
In case other list members don't join in, "defensive trolls" may join
in and continue to give air time to the "offensive trolls". The
friendly trolls can also incite bona fide list members to join in
using offlist emails.
Another phase may involve the friendly trolls starting to retaliate
publicly, calling on the support of bona fide list members.
When things start to get out of hand, petrol will be poured on the
flames to try and stir things up as much as possible and cause the
maximum amount of strife and chaos.
The following is a further extract from the FAQ (Frequently Asked
Questions) of the mailing list that is dedicated to trolling. It will
help you to understand what type of person you are up against...
"Anyone can walk into alt.sex and post that pornography should be
banned. Anyone can walk into rec.sport.baseball and say "baseball
sucks". It takes unbelievable skill and discipline to cause a
PROLONGED flame war. That is what we do. But it can only be done with
talent, and numbers to match that talent. We only bring into the fold
people who have the knack to use smarts to incite chaos, not
stupidity to incite being ignored when people see a post and know
what you're up to."

Domination Trolls
Recently, it has become apparent that there are probably trolls also
operating as list managers. I am unclear as to the specific
motivations for this type of activity, but it may be:
gratification from dominating the emotional lives of list members
gangland ware - where one group sets up a list and aims to defend it
from other trolling groups
a genuine area of interest on behalf of the troll
Nevertheless, the lesson behind this is that you need to get
verification data for list managers as well as other list members.
Dealing with trolls
When dealing with suspected trolls, there are various strategies that
you can employ. First of all, remember that just because you suspect
that someone is a troll, it doesn't mean that they are a troll; also,
just because you suspect someone is genuine, it doesn't mean that
they are genuine. In view of this, the best tactics are:
ignore postings that you suspect may be from trolls.
don't invest any of your self emotionally until you have verified
beyond all doubt that the person you are dealing with is genuine
beware of off list emails that praise and flatter, or seem to evoke
sympathy. If you feel yourself beginning to like someone, ask first:
how much verifiable data do I have about them?
if you do get involved in anyone, seek out verifiable data. Trolls
will provide some data that will lead to dead ends; real people will
provide some data that is open-ended and leads to a myriad of sources
which enable you to verify their genuine status
if you must respond to a troll posting, don't get involved in the
argument; limit it to pointing out that the posting may be considered
as trollish, for the benefit of other list members.
Write to the listmaster to highlight what is happening
Write to the postmaster of the troll's domain. Keep it simple, polite
and to the point (they are very busy!). Include your evidence (e.g.:
offensive emails) and the full email header information, so that the
troll can be properly traced.
Listmasters can also make their lists restricted, and conduct a
security analysis of each list application before allowing them to
subscribe. This is probably easier to do in areas that have
professional associations or qualifications.

#22894 08/11/07 02:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Takin up a lot a space there, trollmeister.
Ah'm thinkin it would be purty usefull if we all could delete the above space waster, even if Ah agree with some a these sentiments. We all are smart enough to deal with the greshelpy dealt our way.
Folks listen to non-anons more than anons as a rule here, coulda thought up a name or are you a troll, takes one to know one?
Ah'm confused, are you callin me a troll?

#22895 08/11/07 02:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
also Elvis... I have been reading about this stuff for a few years on the net, probably you have too. Thing is, I run into some very strange stuff within that. For instance things like this:

alone in the universe, a ufo story!
http://ettracker.com/index-17.html

there is chemtrail info at that site also, here, http://ettracker.com/index-9.html

Do I think these people are making these stories up? No, absolutely not. And they are worth taking the time to read. There is something going on. Matter of fact there is A LOT of something going on. But getting to the bottom of it may not be possible in this life.

I do not believe in UFO's btw, I do believe they are from here and have always been here, whatever they are.

#22896 08/11/07 03:14 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Quote
Takin up a lot a space there, trollmeister.
Ah'm thinkin it would be purty usefull if we all could delete the above space waster, even if Ah agree with some a these sentiments. We all are smart enough to deal with the greshelpy dealt our way.
Folks listen to non-anons more than anons as a rule here, coulda thought up a name or are you a troll, takes one to know one?
Ah'm confused, are you callin me a troll?
Did they teach you grammar in school? or you want to call attention to yourself by typing phonetically to say you are a southerner?
Either way no one cares

#22897 08/11/07 03:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
thanks no one, glad to know you care

#22898 08/11/07 04:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,977
Master Elite Member
**
I care. How do you like these Anons? Most of them seem to have graduated from the same school of tactless insults.

#22899 08/11/07 06:42 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 790
Elite Member
****
Elvis you are hilarious, I just now got the floater joke, just a tad slow, I am. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> can we blame that on the chemo too? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> And I did watch the one video, but never got around to the second or third cause I am too busy juicing to save my life...but I will get there if Russ doesn't shut these threads down, they must be costing a fortune and not doing much good to anyone.

And I just sent a link to this thread to everyone in my address book...so that is a ripple.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sandi
xoxo

#22900 08/12/07 04:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Thanks so much Sandi, thats the kinda idea and action Ah was lookin for, just to get folks lookin , talkin and eventually doin is what we need.
Actually, it's kinda embarrassin to get involved in this other nonsense.
Ah do apologize but Ah am just a fool whose intentions are good.
Keep up that juicin, now thats a real full time job!

#22901 08/12/07 04:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
Hi Sosick, I dont think it can be dust. I've had enough dust in this house plenty of times and sneezed like crazy. So far this time? It is not sneezing and ive never had stinging eyes like this from dust.

So I dont know! I'm tired of it, it's affecting me everyday since this system has been put in. Not a thing I can do about it, it's a government owned house and they paid for this system.

In fact, I can be out at my brother's during the day and I'll start coming right. As soon as I come back to my house? It starts again and as I am typing this, they are stinging.

I'm just bewildered by the whole thing. It feels like toxic fumes or something, not dust. Yet the person I live with is just fine, no effects at all.

#22902 08/12/07 07:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
Hi Bex,

My daughter sneezes like crazy when there's just a little bit of dust flying around too, she's our dust monitor.

If it's fumes from materials related to the ventilation system it will probably go away, but can take weeks. Paint, caulks, whatever, do take some time to cure. I would make a habit of opening the windows to air the house out for at least an hour a day (with the heat or air running) to get fresh air recirculating through the system. It'll help the new materials cure quicker too. I do that in our house too even though the work here is not recent, just as a matter of habit.

It has been dreadfully hot here, haven't been outside for more than 5 minutes in days. But I still open the windows every morning for fresh air, and then again in the evening. I lock em up as the thermometor heads toward 100. I need to bring my suffering plants in early this year I think they would enjoy some relief too. I think plants make a big difference in the house. The palms are pretty easy to take care of, not fussy at all. Other types can get messy, if they are dropping leaves everywhere. Aloe plants are real easy too. Put them in a big clay pot and they get really big, all sorts of benefits for you also. They need very little sun and water, just drown them once a month or so, and when they are bigger you can pull the bottom leaves and eat one now and then. Good topical for the skin too. I put flower bulbs in the pots with palms, they are fabuous in winter, makes the house smell real nice too.


#22903 08/12/07 07:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
HI sosick, I actually typed an email to the people who make these heat pumps and I asked them to please keep my complaint "confidential". What did they do? They went straight away and told the guy who put the system in.

So now the owners of the house we live in may find out and then ask us to leave. Think of it this way, they've paid out thousands to have it put in, if they have tenents that are not using it because of "sore eyes", I cannot imagine they will be thrilled.

So the person I live with is not too happy with me right now. The reason I did it is this. If some other poor sod out there decides to get one of these systems (and doesn't know this possibility), pays it off (most of us are not rich) and then thousands of dollars later, finds out it causes sore eyes.....

At any rate, I'm not miss popular right now. I feel though that the company SHOULD know and if people dont say anything, then how does this help the company or those that buy it? I dont particualrly feel like lying either.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your suggestions and I am doing that right now. I have it going and have the windows all open. IT also seems to be playing up too. I have found today that I have it on full fan, yet it's hardly blowing any air out at all (yet was working fine yesterday).

Sometimes I wonder about these new systems. Seems more can go wrong than not.

anyway, we shall see.

#22904 08/12/07 08:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
Oh, just tell them you are not feeling well, and apologize, it'll be ok. I doubt very much it's actually the 'pump'. It should be a closed system, it just heats and circulates the air. Your complaints are not unusual for a new heating system Bex. Maybe sending them a card thanking them for it would be in order. Ours stinks if you turn it on after it's been off for a few months. That's normal, takes a good hour to lose the not-used-in-a-while smell. anyway, it's just electric stuff in there heating the air, should not be any fumes.

I do notice a major difference in the air quality when I use a cheap filter and a pleated filter though. I hate the regular filters, they recirculate dust, pollen, everything. The pleated ones keep the air much cleaner. Make sure you change the filter every couple months if you run it a lot.

I would send the owner a card thanking them. Give them a big 'oh never mind me' if they come calling, just say it was not one of your better moments because of your allergies.

#22905 08/12/07 10:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
HI sosick. I think I'll just take the wait and see approach. I dont want to outright lie, but dont wish to draw a lot of attention either.

A guy from the company rang me just before about it and was genuinely interested, as they want to know if there are any problems in their product. So I told him what happened and said perhaps it is just an temporary problem due to it all being brand new, drilling through plaster, welding etc and maybe there is a bit of "offgassing" from the product itself as it blows out that with the air.

I cannot be sure, but he is going to chat about this with the others and get back to me. He seemed to appreciate my honest about it. They are also going to check on me and see how it goes.

I am hoping it is temporary. I haven't given up, still using it on and off. So we shall see what happens. I feel it is unfair of me to remain quiet on this and lie about it and just "not use it". when the product is very expensive and I wonder about other people buying it and not having any idea of this problem... also the company can hardly be blamed if people dont tell them.

At any rate, here's hoping there will be relief!

#22906 08/13/07 02:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
Master Elite Member
***
Be polite and smile and you will get anything you need <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

#22907 08/13/07 04:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
lol

#22908 08/13/07 02:49 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Bex,
Is your house new? New houses as well as new furniture , curtains, mattresses etc are usually much more toxic than old houses and furniture .After several years the chemicals in wallpaper mattresses etc have outgassed to a large extent so your house is less toxic.
As far as the plants , different plants react with different chemicals.Sage is supposed to reduce mold and dust mites.

#22909 08/13/07 02:53 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Troll patrol,
Does it matter if people we will never meet are using their real names? The only benefit of using a name , real or false, is that we can examine the sorce of a post and skip it.

#22910 08/13/07 06:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
Hi Jill, yes I would say this place is modern because it's one of the "newer" government owned places. I think it's a kitset one. Relatively easy to put together.

It also has aluminium windows, thin walls and lack of insulation. I have seen water dripping down the walls, had black patches over the ceilings and sometimes some of the walls. We now use dehumidifiers and this has improved GREATLY.

But I do not believe this is the healthiest place to live, however, the location is probably the best because we are close to the city, close to relatives, close to shops etc. And to leave this place would be a bad move. REason being is there are families on waiting lists to try and get in. I do not know where we would go if we left, or we would end up. Hard to say.

Personally I prefer the very old built "railway" houses. I actually quite like the old style anyway, but I can well imagine they would be a healthier bet (far more solid too). and yeah I would imagine this place has a lot of formaldehyde. I've been here now for ten years. But again, my worsened symptoms only began after a very bad bacterial infection. So I cannot associate my problems with the house, as I was ok before this infection (apart from going through hell detoxing the mercury, which I was recovering from).

Gotta get some house plants I know. I am too sick right now to even go out, but maybe later I will.




#22911 08/13/07 07:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 260
Veteran Member
***
Hi Bex:

My eyes just got better, after a week of being hazy, blurry, and sore. Funny we both got that going on....

Maybe it is mold, but could it be the composites we have?

From the Material Data Safety Sheet again:

Eye Contact:
Moderate Eye Irritation: Signs/symptoms may include redness, swelling, pain, tearing, and blurred or hazy vision.

I won't go into the other things - the sheet is on the old post "30 Years of Mercury..."

Maybe I am way off here, do you think there is something to this?

TW

#22912 08/13/07 08:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,178
Bex Offline
Master Elite Member
****
HI TW, not sure about that because the problems in the eyes started only when the heat pump was put in and turned on. They seem to improve when I'm away from it, but get worse again when I'm near it.

But for sure, I am quite certain composites and amalgams could also cause eye symptoms. I've had sore eyes and blurred vision from amalgams and braces, but haven't had it as such with composites....I had horrible eye problems with those toxic metals. Absolutely awful. I would try and use so many different eye drops to stop it, but ended up reacting to them as well. I could not win. The ONLY eye drops that ever made a difference to me were ones an eye specialist gave me (surprise surprise). Proper prescription ones that actually did help. Also candida is another one that can cause eye problems.

How come your eyes have improved? Did you do something different? I'm glad it's happened, but just curious as to how...Personally I think that my recent problems are because of candida and a low immune system and this is probably why I am so suseptible to the heat pump.


#22913 08/14/07 04:10 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
If you are worried about barium exposure Elvis , you get much more from composite fillings than from the air . In general, indoor air is far more toxic than outdoor air .
I didnt watch the videos but it seems to me that one reason why the exaust from different planes is different is that they are using different fuels , perhaps because some are cheaper and perhaps more toxic. I don't know about England but here in the states most of our rich powerful people live in big cities so they are exposed to whatever is in these chemtrails.I did read one article and in it several people claimed that these planes go nowhere; they simply criss cross the sky.Given the speed of an airplane, how would onlookers know that the same planes were criss crossing the sky rather than heading somewhere .Even if planes are circling around, they might be training pilots .

#22914 08/14/07 04:22 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
"Even Jill " had something pertinent to say . Elvis, we can't all be as intelligent as you

think you are. Do you have any data on levels of exposure to specific chemicals from chemtrails?You talk about chemtrails being all over the planet . Don't the levels of these correlate with population density as would be expected since there are more planes over L.A. than some remote part of South Dakota.

#22915 08/14/07 04:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Jill,for a self confessed brainbox, y'all don't have a clue. There's a time an a place for scepticism, this ain't the time or the place. The fact ya didn't watch the films but are prepared to make pseudo- knowledgable comments says it all .
Arrogance and ignorance, what a combo.
Plenty a data in the films, but ya gotta watch em, funny, that.

Duh, the fact that the planes criss cross is the entire point, and it ain't like ya can't see the fact that that is EZACTLY what all they are doin, no mystery or disappearin planes, iffen ya watch it happenin, thats what they are doin, criss-crossin, layin down aerosol , whats an aerosol? Suspended solid particals in a gas. Wake up, Jill. You said you was smart, Trainin pilots??? Ya jokin?? Look at the films an don't be an eejit.
If ya got half the brains ya say ya do? Use em. An don't comment if ya don't do the research, waste a time.
Still, maybe it cheers ya up. Cold comfort farm, book me in.
Ma tolerance for willful opinionated ignorance has lost its charm.
The clock is tickin an for the few people with the courage to open their eyes , we gotta wake up an smell the barium .
It's a heartbreakin state of affairs.
Ah'm gonna be spendin a lotta time elsewheres workin on this (a real vexation Ah'm sure to ma anti-fans) cuz it's mighty dissapointin this blindness and blandness.
Said it all before ,if ya got heavy metal issues or a taxed immune system, y'all are exactly the sort a person gonna suffer the most from aerosol exposure to barium an aluminium. An these here are the components we are SURE about, some a the rest is variable an open to speculation.
Leastaways, Ah tried. Sleep well.

#22916 08/14/07 05:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 260
Veteran Member
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Hi Bex:

When I say my eyes got better, they did in the way of being more comfortable, less dry, maybe. But my vision at night is changed. I wear contacts, and I notice signs are blurry a bit. I will have to go into eye doctor soon enough.

When I do, I will let you know what they say happened.

Elvis - my opinion is there is there really is something to this chemtrail business. But it is just an opinion, I have no hard facts.

TW

#22917 08/14/07 05:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
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What's stoppin ya? Get the facts an let's talk about this.
It's mighty serious.

#22918 08/15/07 04:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,977
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I've just watched the Myspace vid that was linked to at the beginning of this thread. I didn't even know what a chemtrail was and to be honest this sounded like stuff for conspiracy theory-buffs at first. It's easy, once you see how we are given supposedly safe dental materials and pharmaceuticals from people who are supposed to be looking after us, to then see conspiracies coming out of the woodwork (as a few here are indeed prone to, in my opinion). But I am always interested in what people say, especially if I respect them, so I thought I would have a look at this.

I watched it with increasing fascination because, unlike that awful Ken Hovind propaganda nonsense about creationism, this is based on solid observation, science and fact. I found the scientist who lives in New Mexico particularly convincing. There's a lot of evidence, isn't there, that this really is happening, and even a few good possible explanations as to why it may be (e.g. the actual patent for altering the electrical conductivity of the atmosphere). I can believe this is happening in the US -- but globally? What could be going on there? How could so many countries give their consent to such a thing, and all keep it hush-hush? Or maybe they themselves aren't fully aware of what is happening? There are a lot of questions that need to be asked.

Well I've gone from being skeptical, to being in tears by the end of the video and feeling horribly depressed and helpless. Is there actual evidence that this is happening here in the UK midlands? If you could point me to more info I'd appreciate it Elvis, though I think I would prefer more stuff I could read as the longer vids are hard to make time for. I'm kind of feeling like there's no point in making time for anything anymore, but I'll just have to shake it off and get on with things. I need to play with my little girl, buy some vitamins, call the child minder, etc.

Linda.

#22919 08/15/07 05:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
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If there's interest, Ah'l be glad to post photos taken over ma own house. Went to (in-) Sainsbury's Monday and the sky was full of em, and the fake ensuing clouds.Don't get depressed, thats just what all they want ,get ANGRY and lets get busy .Ah tell you, it's woken me up an Ah don't feel so bad about that, there's some energy in righteous indignation. Y'all got a good brain Linda, any time y'all can spend on this is worthwile for you and the sake a the children. Ah refuse to be any more of a victim than Ah have been already, mostly through ignorance.
This here is a satellite phota from 2001!! Can't be arguin with this, makes me sick Ah didn't know sooner, just never saw it right HERE before last month or so.
http://www.stopchemtrailsuk.bravehost.com/
Loads more stuff at ma disposal, lots of it's pretty short. First thing is to know what they look like.

#22920 08/15/07 05:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
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OK, these here are not super high quality photos but y'all can tell what they look like from these and the fake cirrus type clouds above are ones just done a lil earlier fannin out . On this particular day, they was sprayin all day on one a the few bright blue sky days, a course by the evenin there was a nasty milky haze an we all knew the next day would be heavily overcast and rainin. A job well done. No wonder it's so easy to perdict the weather nowadays, They're MAKIN it!
It's the viruses really pisses me off.
<img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/sassalola/th_chemtrail4.jpg">
<img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/sassalola/th_chemtrail3.jpg">
<img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/sassalola/th_chemtrail2.jpg">
<img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/sassalola/th_chemtrail1.jpg">
Also, photo number 3, ( click on it to big it up ) y'all can see the chemtrails only go a short distance and stop, y'all can't turn off and on a contrail.
If a body was foolish enough to think these was planes goin anywhere, what kinda flights go at the same time right next to each other.
Wake up an smell the chemtrails.

#22921 08/15/07 06:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
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I'm horrified. I thought that with it being so cloudy here so much of the time anyway, no one would see this going on. Maybe they keep to a schedule no mater what the weather is, and count on people not knowing or caring.

I think this is a plausinble explanation for why someone like Tracy, whose body is struggling in many ways to begin with, would be absorbing all that aluminium. And why my daughter gets cold after cold, and sinusits, despite eating an excellent diet and taking supplements including vitamin C. As for me, I assumed the depression had compromised my immune system anyway. I'm ill more often than I'm well but it will be interesting to see how that changes when the depression lifts. I think the jala neti I've started will help. I'll get my daughter doing it when she's older.

I feel so helpless though. I am not a scientist, or a journalist, or a film-maker, or a political activist. I don't think many people would believe me if I tried to tell them about this, though the little I said to my husband this morning was accepted without ridicule at least. He said that he wouldn't put this past any government, as they generally hold human lives to be of little value.

If I could hop in a plane and go and catch them at it, get better pictures, or get some samples of what they are spraying, I would. I just don't know what I can do, other than weep for the state of our earth, and the suffering of innocent people.

Any info you can post is welcome Elvis. I've bookmarked the site you linked to.

Linda.

#22922 08/15/07 06:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
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Welp, we don't have to be scientists, just carin human beins, there's plenty a evidence for whats in em, will post more arial photos and science stuff later. In ma experience, people with the scientific background are the ones clingin to ignorance the most. Yep, it's scary stuff but please don't get depressed, this is the time to stick (or get) together.
Ya might feel better for it and maybe even make some friends and feel less isolated.
Ah'm interested in usin an learnin marketing techniques for how to get people to see this hideous crap goin on. This subject has to get off the net and into the streets, too much info on cyberspace an not enough info at your local food co-op.

#22923 08/15/07 07:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
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Yes, I'd be willing to do what I can. If there's a group to join I'd be interested.

I keep asking myself how I could consider believing in a global conspiracy. That just is NOT me. But there are patents for spraying the sorts of things they seem to be spraying and if that's the case, then why wouldn't people be putting them into practice. Also, a lot of people seem to think they've seen enough for themselves that they are demanding enquiries. Also, I'm convinced by the science I've seen that explains how chemtrails, which linger all day, are different from normal comtrails that evaporate. This is what had me chuckling at first, I thought the conspiracy nuts were looking at perfectly normal phenomena and making up wild stories.

I'd like to hear more about what's actually in the chemtrails. How have people been able to measure that they contain barium and aluminium? Also, how long do people reckon this has been going on? That video I watched said that if it's a secret attempt to try to counteract global warning then it won't work because the chemtrails prevent, rather than encourage, rainfall.

I'll see what else I can find about this. It's distracting me today, I have to say. I wasn't prepared to learn something like this and it's rather thrown me for a loop.

Linda

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Post deleted by dawn

#22925 08/15/07 03:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
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I'm finding it hard to know what to think, really. I've read a few sites now with comments from pilots and meteorologists about how chemtrails really could be normal contrails. They say that wind shear can cause apparent breaks in a contrail. And that under the right circumstances, a couple of planes flying through clear sky can cause cirrus clouds that eventually grow to cover the sky. What's more, I would like to know why some people seem so sure that chemtrails contain materials like aluminium and barium. Could these not be produced by other sources of pollution, like car exhaust or power stations? Finally, how could so many people keep such a perfect conspiracy for years? It would require the collusion of thousands of people, from the politicians to the mechanics who build and repair planes. Wouldn't it be likely that at least a few people would have spoken up about this by now if something was really going on?

Just trying to understand . . . If anyone has some convincing ideas about these things I'd be happy to listen.

Linda.

#22926 08/15/07 03:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,153
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Quote
id be willing to try and stop this crap.
ive seen chemtrails all my life,now i know what they really are,whats it all for, why poison us, they are poisoning themselves too.


With enough money, you can build your own little habitat of highly filtered and freshly oxygenated air.

So I would disagree, they are not necessarily poisoning themselves too.

Your photos are pretty lightduty copmpared to what I have seen in the cities here Elvis. the skies here start out in the morning bright blue and sunny, then come the jets, then within an hour the masses of billowing, literally billowing thick fake clouds are so thick they obliterate the sunlight completely.

#22927 08/15/07 05:16 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Actually, air filters won't remove anything under one micron and formaldehyde , barium etc are orders of magnitude smaller than one micron.

#22928 08/15/07 05:51 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
People who never studied science would'nt let a bunch of facts get in the way of their conclusions . How about listing a few short articles on the subject for people who don't want to watch long videos.
Do you have research on levels of exposure to barium etc from these chemtrails?

#22929 08/16/07 03:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,977
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My naturopath, I have found out, knows something about this subject. She says she's sifted some good info out of all the stuff out there. Here is an article she sent me that I read this morning, and I think it gives very good evidence that there is spraying going on:

Air Traffic Controllers Concerned Over Chemtrails
By William Thomas
04/05/03

Vancouver, Canada Mar. 5, 2002.As continuing chemtrail activity culminated
in massive aerial spraying over Vancouver Island and Washington state
yesterday- and broadening plumes once again fanned out to haze clear blue
skies - Air Traffic Controllers at major airports across the United States
expressed concern over the emissions constantly showing up on their radar
screens.

"Chemtrails" is the term widely used to describe the brilliant white 'trails
laid down by U.S. Air Force tanker planes photo-identified over North
America and a dozen other allied nations in a process the U.S. Air Force
calls "aerial obscuration".

First confirmed by Airport Authority Terry Stewart at the Victoria
International Airport on Dec. 8, 2000 as a "joint Canada-U.S. military
operation" - and stridently denied by senior officers at Canadian Forces
Base (where Stewart later told the Vancouver Courier he had received his
information) - these multi-plane missions were verified in March, 2001 by
the Air Traffic Control (ATC) manager for the northeastern seaboard of the
United States.

In three taped interviews with this reporter and veteran radio journalist
S.T. Brendt, our "Deep Sky" source said that he had been ordered to divert
incoming commercial flights away from USAF tankers spraying s substance that
showed up on ATC radars as a "haze".

These radar returns are the signature of the fine aluminum particles found
in laboratory tests of chemtrail-contaminated rain taken in Espanola,
Ontario in the summer of 1999. The lab analysis found reflective quartz
particles in the chemtrail fallout - and levels of aluminum five-times
higher than Ontario's maximum permissible health safety standards.

After Canadian government Defense Critic Gordon Earle presented a petition
signed by 550 Espanola residents to Parliament in November, 1999 demanding
an end to aerial spraying by "commercial or military aircraft, foreign or
domestic" which appeared to be making many people sick, DND eventually
replied, "It's not us."

The aluminum found in chemtrails over Ontario matches the 10 micron aluminum
oxide called for in a 1994 patent issued to Hughes Aircraft Company.
"Welsbach Seeding for Reduction of Global Warming" refers to spreading
highly reflective materials in the atmosphere to reflect enough incoming
sunlight (1 to 2%) to slow rapidly-accelerating global warming.

Edward Teller, father of the H-bomb, called for this billion dollar a year
"sky shield" program after computer simulations at Lawrence Livermore
National Laboratory showed it would prevent warming over 85% of the planet's
surface despite a predicted doubling of heat-trapping C02 in the atmosphere
over the next 40 years.

But Ken Caldeira - the climate expert who ran the computer model - has
warned that the stratospheric spraying of sunlight-reflecting chemicals
could "destroy the ozone layer" - and pose human health risks.

CONTROLLERS ACROSS U.S. EXPRESS CONCERN
Starting last December, on heavy "spray days" Deep Sky began calling
companion controllers across the country. Were they seeing the same thing on
their 'scopes? What were they being told?

In a fourth interview with reporter S.T. Brendt last week, Deep Sky stated
that Air Traffic Controllers at Chicago's O'Hare airport, all three major
airports in New York, Los Angeles LAX, San Francisco, Atlanta, Cleveland,
San Diego, Washington DC's Dulles and Jacksonville, Florida were being
ordered to route airliners beneath formations of Air Force tanker planes
spraying something that regularly clouds their screens.

Several smaller but busy airports at Westchester County in New York state
and Manchester in New Hampshire were also contacted by this an increasingly
concerned Deep Sky - and confirmed similar experiences.

Every controller, without exception, is being told to divert traffic due to
"military exercises", and to bring in traffic lower because of experiments
that may degrade their radars. The controllers at Cleveland's airport were
surprised by the extent of obscuration on their radars.

CHEMTRAILS SCIENTIST TALKS TO PRESS
Ohio is the home of Wright-Patterson - the air force base working with
electromagnetic and weather modification technology. A scientist working at
Wright-Pat recently told reporter Bob Fitrakis that two different projects
are being conducted. One involves cloud creation experiments to lessen the
effect of global warming. Other chemtrails are connected with the military's
extremely high-power Radio Frequency beam weapon in Alaska called HAARP.

"The scientist claims that the two most common substances being sprayed into
chemtrails are aluminum oxide and barium stearate. When you see planes
flying back and forth marking parallel lines, X-patterns and grids in a
clear sky, that's aluminum oxide, according to the scientist. The goal is to
create an artificial sunscreen to reflect solar radiation back into space to
alleviate global warming. In some cases, barium may be sprayed in a similar
manner for the purpose of "high-tech 3-D radar imaging." (Columbus Alive
Dec. 6, 2001)

HR2977 [quick note here -- this bill has been pulled with a new one
replacing it. The new bill has no mention of chemtrails.]
HR2977 is creating a "buzz" in the Air Traffic Control community. Introduced
last October by Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, this bill called for the peaceful
uses of space, and a ban on "exotic weapons". Section 7 of the "Space
Preservation Act of 2001" sought specifically to prohibit "chemtrails".

Kucinich recently told the Columbus Alive newspaper (Jan. 24, 2002) that
despite official denials, as head of the Armed Services oversight committee
he is well acquainted with chemtrail projects. "The truth is there's an
entire program in the Department of Defense, 'Vision for 2020,' that's
developing these weapons," Kucinich told reporter Bob Fitrakis. The U.S.
Space Command's 2020 vision calls for "dominance" of space, land, sea and
air.

Though "section vii" naming chemtrails, HAARP and other planet-threatening
weapons has since been removed in a substitute bill - "under pressure"
according to Kucinich - the original bill remains intact and on-file in the
congressional record.

CONTRAILS VS CHEMTRAILS
The unusual white plumes reported by Air Canada pilots, police officers and
former military personnel over Canada and the U.S. during the past three
years are often contrasted by brief, pencil-thin contrails left by
commercial jets flying above them.

Contrails form when water vapor clumps around dirt particles acting as
nuclei. According to NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration, contrails can only form at temperatures below minus 76
degrees, and humidity levels of 70 percent or more. Even in ideal
conditions, contrails rarely last more than 20 minutes.

But atmospheric studies by NASA and NOAA - including TARFOX, ACE-Asia, ACE-I
and II, INDOEX and Project SUCCESS - confirm that artificial clouds and
contrails can be manufactured under conditions of low humidity by dispensing
particles from aircraft. The smaller the size of the nuclei introduced into
the atmosphere, the greater the rate of artificial cloud formation.

Controllers across the United States know from their professional training
that these chemicals fall to the ground. Without exception they expressed
their concern to Deep Sky about possible risks to human health,

"They want to know what the heck is in there," S.T. Brendt reported. "One of
them said, 'Aluminum or barium - that's not something you want to be
breathing.'"

Over the last few months, the controller have been told that the troubling
aerial operations involve "climate experiments". Deep Sky's family continues
to experience health problems, including his young son's gushing nose bleeds
and episodes Sudden Onset Acute Asthma in his wife.

MEDIA SNOOZE WHILE VIEWERS LOSE
A working journalist for more than 30 years - with writing and photography
appearing in more than 50 publications in eight countries - award-winning
Canadian reporter William Thomas says he is exasperated and embarrassed by
his profession.

"For the past three years, newspaper editors and TV news directors have been
telling me to bring them proof of chemtrails. The more evidence I present,
the more they back away from this story. It was the same with Gulf War
Illness and all of the unasked questions surrounding 9.11. Once again, it
seems that 'news managers' would rather cover personalities, predictions and
press releases than threats to Canadian sovereignty, the environment and the
health of their communities."

In challenging news people to cover the news, Thomas charges that simply
repeating official denials while ignoring a deluge of reports from experts
and eye-witnesses across North America is not good enough.

"This is not journalism," he says. "This is propaganda."


#22930 08/16/07 05:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
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See Linda, ya got a good brain an Ah'm sure y'all got somethin to bring to this subject .
Ah know, it takes some gettin used to and it's pretty freakin outrageous, nonetheless, it IS going on.
Ah realize ma photii are not so dramatic but this is how they start here where Ah live, layin down tracks all day long. What with the moist atmospheric conditions here, they ain't as noticable or delineated as in the desert like in Arizona where Ah first made their acquaintance. But this heres the point, they lay em down an then they fan out an then they got enough fake clouds to go at it under cover, especially easy to do in the UK.
Took the train up to London yesterday and saw em all over the place in areas a big open sky. By the time Ah got to London it was completely overcast and then there was a downpour, got soaked to the skin, too.
Have a look at this ;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8NmzfjIkI0&mode=related&search=
Rosalie don't appear to be in any way a conspiracy theorist, in fact Ah'd say she goes a bit easy on the subject.

#22931 08/16/07 06:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
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http://www.michael-irving.com/world/enemy.html
Some good photos here, more info for sifting:
http://www.whale.to/b/ch5.html
Now Ah know there's some weird cosmic type info an opinions in some a this here, but lets be detectives and at least look at the photos, there's some doozies.
Anaways, most outsiders lookin at parts a this forum think we all are BARKIN!

#22932 08/16/07 11:34 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
I dont understand why a resident just doesn't phone the cops and report these chemtrails - if 50 people did this then someone would pay attention.

#22933 08/16/07 05:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
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The world don't work like that, anon,
http://www.this-must-stop.com/index.htm

#22934 08/16/07 06:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
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forever 42 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hK_-Ovmg-vA
g'night and god bless

#22935 08/17/07 04:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,977
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ROFL I checked out all these links to chemtrails and then the last one . . . ? Thanks Elvis, you are responsible for most of the laughs I've had these past several weeks.

You mean you haven't been over at Graceland with the 75,000 other people this past week??

#22936 08/17/07 05:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
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Just thought we needed a serious break.Plus 30 years a bein dead gets bit old.
Ta, love.

#22937 08/18/07 04:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
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http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...hy-you-want-to-avoid-bayer-products.aspx
O k, slightly off the subject burnin a whole in ma jumpsuit, but wouldn't want anyone out there still takin their Flintstone Vitamins .
Ah'm always wonderin why aspartame is sneakin into non- diet products these days. Read somewheres it has a profound effect psychologically, particularly on the will power.

#22938 08/18/07 07:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
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I'm on their mailing list too, just read this a minute ago LOL. I used to eat those Flintstones things when I was little. Most of the chidren's vitamins around are utter rubbish, I give my daughter a small portion of a liquid vitamin for adults. I also stopped giving her squash to drink recently (because of the aspartame) and she has water with a little fruit juice now.

Always something to watch out for isn't there.

#22939 08/19/07 04:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
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This here's a good article and should be of great interest to anabody livin in the Midlands, or any folks that like to breathe.
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/c...ask=view&id=76&Itemid=50
Just for starters, anabody interested could join the stopchemtrails uk group, it's only small but maybe it could get bigger?
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/stopchemtrailsuk/
Ah'm thinkin it's time to change us worriers inta warriors.

#22940 08/19/07 01:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 47
B
Junior Member
when my thinking was very clear before mercury poisoning, and being highly intelligent as i was, i investigated chemtrails, and believe there was enough evidence that it was highly likely. To me it was only why.. whether to be a small part in reducing the population as a stated goal by the elite, or to be a geo-physical weapon.. in fact chemtrails may have many overlapping objectives.. including higher levels of aluminium reducing the greenhouse effect to prolong the use of fossil fuel by reflection.

earth is currently a very, very evil place, before mercury poisoning it didn't scare me, i still have not forgotten the truth.

#22941 08/19/07 06:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
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An don't you forget it Benza, y'all gotta get better, we need ya on the team. Don't forget, the human heart is where it's really at, and for the ones who don't sell out, welp, there's more power in that than all the (faulty recalled) plastic toys in China.
Big big love to ya.

#22942 08/20/07 08:26 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Bayer is best known for aspirin which causes arthritis and is used to treat the symptoms of arthritis.
Why pick on Bayer ? What about boycotting Johnson and Johnson products because they produce mercury amalgam fillings?

#22943 08/21/07 02:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
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Did you actually look at the link??

And yes, big pharma has a lot to answer for, not just Bayer. As for the supposed innocuousness of aspirin, thousands of people die every year from taking it. You could of course do what most people do, shrug and say everything has risks. The way I like to think of it is, if you've got diet and supplements right, you won't need to put that dangerous crap in your body in the first place.

#22944 08/21/07 05:59 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
Quote
I'm on their mailing list too, just read this a minute ago LOL. I used to eat those Flintstones things when I was little. Most of the chidren's vitamins around are utter rubbish, I give my daughter a small portion of a liquid vitamin for adults. I also stopped giving her squash to drink recently (because of the aspartame) and she has water with a little fruit juice now.

Always something to watch out for isn't there.
Sign your daughter up for some dental problems forums in ten years. The worst thing you can do to childrens teeth is to keep them coated all day . Teeth need what dentists call "clearance time" .She should drink water between meals rather than water with fruit juice or other drinks.

#22945 08/22/07 02:15 AM
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Yes thanks, I'm aware of this. I am trying to wean her off this and get her drinking plain water most of the time. It isn't easy. She is used to squash and hates drinking plain water, she would rather get dehydrated than drink it. The dash of fruit juice in water is a stepping-stone to plain water, which she will have to get used to drinking at school.

#22946 08/22/07 07:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 148
V
Graduate Member
*****
I'm posting in response to the original post, nothing in between cuz I don't have time and can't follow all the bickering. Stress is VERY bad for healing.

We have lots of chemtrailing going here in upstate NY. Tic Tac Toe pattens in the sky which turn to total overcast in the afternoon.

I know lots of people calling the airport questioning the sky crud, they just get ignored.
EPA here in US gets asked all the time to test the samples and they always say "it is not their policy to test unsolicited samples" In essence saying WE just don't give a care.

If you scroll down to the chemtrail section of this forum Russ gives some great videos. Aersol Crimes is one of them. The best part is in the middle giving all the scientific stuff, and near the end has a section of ways you can help yourself. Even has pilots testimonies.
To deny its happening just tells me you haven't looked at all the evidence. It's there, plain as day.
No arguements here just my observations. I tend to avoid this stuff cuz I'm just to tired and sick to argue.
I just want to get better and enjoy my family as well as the clear blue sky.



#22947 08/22/07 07:58 PM
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Really hope ya do get better soon, VM, an hope we get some blue skies back, haven't seen one here for a looooong time.
Thanks for the report from your area. Those ol pictures Ah posted a while back look like happy days compared to the permanent dark haze we got now.
Found out today that unsolicited means they didn't ask for it, so tough gazzats!

#22948 08/24/07 07:33 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
We are exposed to all manner of chemicals, pharmacueticals ,EMFs that were not around in 1850 , but this does not mean there is any conspiracy to poison the masses. In general , the powers that be don't keep the effects of chemicals or drugs a secret. For example, formaldehyde is a known carcinogen . If you check the PDR, you will see that most drugs have a myriad of side effects but people choose to use them anyway , just as they choose to smoke, douse their houses with pesticide when they see one spider and eat too much and become obese.
I don't believe that chemtrails are deliberate poisoning or that they are more harmful than auto exaust. There are much more efficient ways of poisoning the masses.If the elites are trying to get rid of the peasants, why do several presidential candidates and/or family members have cancer?
According to several articles, persistant contrails can form and expand depending on many factors including temperature, dewpoint , supersaturation of the air. In certain circumstances , contrails can cause overcast and rain. The relative humidity on the ground is vastly different from that in the air and thats why these trails appear in Las Vegas.Under certain conditions, a sturated layer can fall.
Plane exaust is toxic but so are many other things . If the barium content in wells is up, maybe it's our toxic composite fillings or other sources.
If you want to lower your cancer risk you're btter off getting rid of household toxins than worrying about jets.

#22949 08/25/07 02:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,977
Master Elite Member
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The thinking here may hold true if you are countering the notion that the powers-that-be are using chemtrails to kill people off slowly. Personally i don't think this is the objective. However, I think it's very likely that people are dropping chemicas into the sky to try to control the weather, and to ionize the atmosphere in order to enhance electromagnetic military technology. There are actually patents for these things, so why wouldn't people be acting on them? A number of people in-the-know are on record admitting that these things are happening now. I've only been learning about this subject for a few weeks but there's some interesting info here from Elvis. I particularly liked the vid he recommends at the topic of this thread, the one he says people new to the subject ought to watch. It had me in tears. I certainly think there is something going on. Whether it is as pervasive as many seem to think, I don't know, but I think there's good evidence that something's rotten in the state of Denmark, as they say.

#22950 08/25/07 04:45 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
There are a zillion patents. That does'nt mean that these chemtrails which are all over the world are part of a vast conspiracy to affect the weather.Who are all these"{ in the know" people? I looked at a couple of the shorter videos. One thing they claim is that vapor trails don't naturally stop. om what I've read , they do suddenly stop based on very minor climatic variations as they move through the sky.I also read that some companies substitute fuel with more toxic substances to save money.

#22952 08/26/07 08:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Rx: Mr. Sick World
Less arguin
More open minds
Talk about it
Do somethin about it

God bless

#22953 08/26/07 07:30 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
That is not the case . It depends on all kinds of atmospheric variables and there is much scientific literature, much of it over a half century old , to support the fact that these trails don't necessarily disappear.Was it at MIT that you studied engineering and rocket science?

#22954 08/27/07 08:01 AM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 30,867
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The Captian
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#22955 08/27/07 07:56 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
If the air is supersaturated, the contral won't disappear and it is not in the least bit rare for the air to be supersaturated.

#22956 08/27/07 08:21 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Who did this chemtrail research? In any case you cant get accurate or nearly accurate figures on relative humidity etc for a given flight at a given moment .
You claim that you had severe muscle aches when a chemtrail fell on you. Why not have your clothes tested to dee if they have a much greater level of chemicals than usual .Jet exaust is toxic like numerous other things.

#22957 08/28/07 07:56 AM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 30,867
Master Elite Member
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So buddy, just what do you think is in those plumes that I posted links to?

I guess jet exhaust was against the law 7 years ago. When the laws changed, jet engines suddenly got dirty, heh? And then only certain jets on certain days under the same atmospheric conditions.

http://herballure.com/humantesting

http://herballure.com/citm/overthehedge

Open your eyes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

[color:"brown"]Both of these pictures taken by me from my yard.[/color]

<img src="http://herballure.com/ForumExtras/Images/mjvlziqehn.jpg">

<img src="http://herballure.com/ForumExtras/Images/ipzmssruyc.jpg">

More Chemtrail Pictures

Why does a 10+ square mile area smell like insecticide when these appear?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


The Captian
Today they call you "crazy". Tomorrow they call you "ahead of your time."
Global Skywatch Learn about Chemtrails - You're breathing them now!
OnlyTheBestHerbs.com World-class supplements
Mercury Talk Why you are sick.
OneUp Domains Domains, Hosting, Email
1-800-358-4278 (U.S. & Canada)
#22958 08/28/07 08:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Saddest thing Ah ever did see last night, the beaudacious full moon obliterated by the thickest chemtrail goin right acrost it , an layers an layers of em , all night long.
Woke up to the usual grey soup we been havin all summer (? ) long.
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/c...ask=view&id=76&Itemid=50

By the way, mercury is perfectly safe. I read that somewheres.
Welp, everbody says so, anaways.

#22959 08/30/07 05:40 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
The fact tham on many days you don't see any trails (con or chem )whereas on others they are all over the sky supports rather than refutes the conclusion that they are due to atmospheric conditions.

#22960 08/30/07 05:44 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
If you look into the literature, you will see that these plumes expanding and fanning out were observed decades ago. There are far more planes today than even ten years ago.

#22961 08/30/07 06:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Keep telling yourself that.
Howza teeth?

#22962 09/01/07 01:48 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 790
Elite Member
****
Just had a brief read thru this thread, man this is unbelievable stuff!!!

Sandi
xoxo

#22963 09/01/07 05:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 448
Advanced Master Member
****
Sandi, don't want to cause ya more worry, so maybe look away til ya feel better. This here is what makes me mad , though, cuz anabody with heavy metals is more susceptible to aluminium an barium not to mention the mycotoxins ,polymer webs an God knows what viruses.
Only a fool caught in the consensus trance our media induces an reflects would not arrive at the truth on this shameful an disgustin occurence.
What is a consensus trance? Charlie Tart, a psychologist (Uof C , jill) explains it like this,
"If it is not in the media, it does ( or did) not happen,
if it did not happen, but it is in the media, we believe it has happened."
Course Ah'd rather believe it wasn't happenin, but trouble is, AH CAN SEE IT EVERDAY, AN THESE AIN'T PASSENGER PLANES. whoah, spooky, ma keyboard just went big there all by itself, think Ah'll leave it that way...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1332178607299698024&q=conspiracy
Another long term researcher an knowledgeable guy, Will Thomas on a conference in Vancouver way back in 1999
We gotta protest, but it ain't gonna happen if folks are as slow to wake up to this one as everbody was about the mass poisonin we all got from the mercury.
Please don't anabody get depressed, pick up that rusty sword an get mad .

#22964 09/03/07 10:29 AM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 30,867
Master Elite Member
****
Quote
The fact tham on many days you don't see any trails (con or chem )whereas on others they are all over the sky supports rather than refutes the conclusion that they are due to atmospheric conditions.

Just keep telling yourself that anon.

For those with an ear...


http://herballure.com/humantesting

http://herballure.com/citm/overthehedge

More Chemtrail Pictures


The Captian
Today they call you "crazy". Tomorrow they call you "ahead of your time."
Global Skywatch Learn about Chemtrails - You're breathing them now!
OnlyTheBestHerbs.com World-class supplements
Mercury Talk Why you are sick.
OneUp Domains Domains, Hosting, Email
1-800-358-4278 (U.S. & Canada)

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