A number of posts about spirits and the like in various forums throughout this board have cropped up recently. Although my post here isn't exactly on the debate of evolution versus creationism, I thought some might find this interesting and noteworthy. It touches on the idea of spiritual entities, more or less. What I like about its sentiments is that, while essentially Buddhist in origin, it's a concept compatible with any religion (or none at all). It is, however, said to be a very dangerous practice (so don't try this at home, kids!)

Taken from a book on lucid dreaming, entitled 'The Lucid Dreamer' by Malcom Goodwin, he states the following.

You are welcome to believe I created this angel with my mind. In sort, I did. My mind requires it. My mind helps me create my entire life matter of fact. I do also sincerely believe God, my creator Father God, has a major hand in it. Here is a photo of the results of my mind requiring the presence of God in my life, including his angels:

<img src="http://herballure.com/ubbthreads/attach/240515-DSC00037a.jpg">

They, we, are very big angels. We tread on little buddhist demons.

Birds of a feather stick together may be a more adept conclusion to the question of why buddhist monks and others attract negative spiritual energies.

Not symbolic by any means, that is exactly how your soul will be destroyed in hell.

There is salvation in Yeshua Hamashiach if you are interested.

It's amazing you find the tibetan stuff interesting Egan. I was wondering though, why it never occured to you that God has a pretty amazing mind himself.

He said... let there be light, and there was.

That's a fascinating read, egan. It's only a shame most of us cannot attain that level of spirituality in our life times as it requires so much training - training which most of us do not have access to. The imaginary monk that woman created in your excerpt reminded me of dakinis from the Bon religion if any of you are familiar. They're self-conjured female guardians basically, intended to assist us when we're scared or hurt. Though I don't think anyone ever reaches such a state with dakinis that you can actually see them like the monks or demons from your quote.

Great stuff. Keep it coming! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

For those interested in Wicca or some related belief system, I would point out that Wicca is based on what some now understand to be "Watcher Theology".

For a complete explanation, please watch this presentation from Michael Heiser that speaks to this subject:

The Sons of God and Biblical Prophecy

On that note...

Though I'm not here to slander anyone's belief system, the trouble I have with Wicca in relation to all the other forms of paganism are a) its origins and b) the often false claims practitioners pronounce in its defense. Though that's not to say other religions don't suffer from misconceptions. Many Christians misinterpret Christianity, for example. So too do many Wiccans misinterpret their own faith: primarily by claiming that it is a Celtic religion with deep ancestral roots to Celtic lore. This is simply not the case.

Again, I'm not slandering the Wiccan religion. If it's a path that suits you, who are we to criticize? I'm also not saying it's "wrong" either; what's truly wrong is to say anyone's beliefs are wrong and theirs right. But as someone who was born and raised a reconstructionalist with a great deal of knowledge about various forms of (neo-)paganism, I think it would do any Wiccan (and those interested in its belief system) good if they were to read Why Wicca Isn't Inherantly Celtic. I do not suggest reading it as a means of straying someone from the Wiccan faith, if that is their path, but rather as a means of understanding many of the falsehoods spoken in the Wiccan name. If this is your faith then one should take care not to stand alongside those who misrepresent your faith.

Blessed be.
-Pwcca

Personally I don't think those images are 'self-conjured' at all. A person might draw attention to themselves by trying hard to do something like that, but the spirits that show up to play god or 'guardian' with them are probably real spirits... whatever happens to be in the vicinity.

One of the devil's (by devil I mean any spirit not of God) main ploys is the idea that he doesn't exist. In the case of something like a familiar spirit that a psychic might get information from, the psychic is aware of that spirit but not always aware of the little influences that spirit can exert either on her or others which help bring about so-called predicted events, or knowledge of the past as the case may be.

The funny thing about psychics is that they never seem able to predict their own futures very well, let alone their demise.

When the Lord finally found me, on my knees and crying out desperately for him... he removed a few pretty nasty spirits from me that I had absolutely no idea were with me. They fought quite a bit coming out and though I never experienced it in my day to day life (though they may have only been with me a short time, the astral projection attempts I suspect), one would try to make me lurch and growl like a tiger and another was cold like death and shook all the time, felt like a cold dead skeleton inside me, really gross... that one was quite obvious and was only there for a day, was very noticable I could not eat anything because it did not like to eat. He simply touched me or something and that one was gone what a relief...Not kidding, it was quite an experience.

Jesus exorcised me. I picked up another one in a jaunt across the country once, wasn't aware of it's presence at all except I can say I was not my usual self... the Lord or an angel of his... I heard the angel say... 'i exorcise you in the name of Jesus Christ' and no kidding I was lifted up by it and spit like a snake as it came out. I felt much better afterwards needless to say. But at that time I was very much walking with Jesus and I think he used me as a vulnerable looking decoy to carry that spirit quietly from another place he did not want it to be. I was in a locked room when he took that one, must have been a reason for that is all I know. someday I am sure i will learn more about that incident.

We have a newcomer in our neighborhood, a man with an autistic 5 year old girl. He claims to be a Christian. But he is decended from a long line of indian shamans. I also suspect the girls mother perhaps was involved in wicca or something of that nature.

The reason I suspect this is that my daughter babysits the little girl and came home one day after babysitting with a pentagram scratched onto her arm, a perfect pentagram about 2 inches by 2 inches big, and she did not know how it got there. I have seen stuff like that happen before to people in places where there was a lot of ungodly spiritual activity, unclean spirits. My daughter has also seen 2 or 3 ghosts of late and refuses to sleep with the light out lately. She has never in her life been afraid of the dark. I have sensed quite a bit of new malicious spiritual activity in the vicinty lately but have not seen ghosts or anything like that. They don't generally bother with me for long because I do not give heed to them and call upon the Lord if I sense things of that nature.

I have the little girl in my house from time to time, and I have prayed pretty hard over her. She will start talking at those moments in a very low raspy voice, very demonic sounding, and she will start shaking and even sort of hyperventilating.

Our house is usually very peaceful, no ghosts, nothing of that nature whatsoever. My daughter is very Christian, she is only 12 years old. Yet, because of her association with the other household she has been experiencing things. The pentagram on her arm hopefully got her attention as to the seriousness of the situation. I have told her repeatedly to take her bible and read it while babysitting that girl. Maybe bnow she will listen. One thing I know for sure is that the devil hates the word of God. She is learning.

I could close my eyes and tell her it isn't really happening, that's it just her imagination but I am not so spiritually blind as to be a puppet of the dead.

I believe another reason these entities hate humans is because we are "replacing" them as "Sons of God". The Bible says that these shall "Die like men".

I posted this before, but I think this 1 hour video is really worth a watch for anyone interested in details about deeper Biblical issues, especially as they relate to evil:

The Sons of God and Biblical Prophecy

I watched it a week or ten days ago. It's good teaching, thanks.

I think though that most of the spirits we've encountered are simply 'the dead'. maybe twice I have ran into massive more powerful veeery evil presences... once the serpent experience mentioned above somewhere in the oh so deceptively benign midwest USA, and another seemed to come from a catholic church in Richmond VA believe it or not.

The Lord told me last month he was going to start teaching my daughter, I hadn't said anything to her about it though. She does need to know the reality of these things before she gets to high school, there is a lot of it around, the wiccan etc. I guess the new neighbors present a perfect opportunity for that.

Really important to read the bible or those spirits will try to play god with her just like they did with me once. That, I think, is the main thing. They may hate humans, envy the living, but the devil wants to be our god and that is central to the issue of knowing who God actually is. Jesus himself used the word of God to rebuke the devil. The word of God is the sword of the spirit.

Kind of like pilgrim's progress around here... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Maybe our vacation is over. My daughter's friend and her dad had just come to pick her up to go into town for some fun for the day which is when I saw the thing on her arm, she had just come from that house with the little girl for me to watch for the afternoon, and her friend's dad saw it too and he paled. But we have a good witness there to it. He said his daughter will not helping my daughter babysit that girl anymore after he saw that.

I told my daughter to continue on though and be a presence of the Lord in that house for her. My daughter is not afraid of the devil, her faith is real strong. She has been raised that way since birth, before actually... she has had little encounters all of her life also, mostly before theage of 6 or 7, I think a lot because of my extended family's ungodly associations.

These wiccans pretend a lot of the time that they themselves are very benign but it's not quite true from what I know about it, people I know who have had relatives involved in that stuff.

We help Jesus send their spirit friends back down though... to be embraced by cold mother earth for eternity. It's a living <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's extremely rare we expereince this stuff around here anymore, the devil learned a long time ago not to mess with us he's lost quite a few troops here I think. This bunch apparently hasn't learned that yet.

What I learned though after mentioning it to another neighbor is that there is a good size wiccan coven about 10 miles north of us and they are influencing quite a few local teenagers lately. We'll probably have forest fires soon.

Wars. floods, forest fires... always a reason...

Can we make certain not to sound offensive towards other religions in future posts, please? It would mean a great deal not only to myself but several of the other posters here. Thanks so much!

Wicca and other forms of Neo-Paganism can be benign when practiced by some and not by others. Let us not forget that Christianity can follow this very same pattern. There are good black people in the world, there are good white people; there are bad black people in the world, there are bad white people.

Again, I kindly ask all posters on this forum to keep their posts professionally critical. I don't think anyone here wants to see other people demonized. I appreciate it!

Blessed be!

Just my very medieval christianity shining through.

People are people whether black or white, witches et al just various forms of the same deception.

No offense meant, just a dream to you.

I can't tell if you're being deliberately cryptic and/or sarcastic or not, so I'll kindly duck out of this conversation and leave it at that.

Blessed be.

yeah, requests to patronize are a little unnerving I admit.

I got this phone call the other day... a guy soliciting money for the shriners hospital and whatever else they do with people's money... and all I said was 'sorry, i'm not interested'. but he keeps going like he thinks he can convince me... I am sighing on the line in impatience but not impolite enough to simply hang up... I tell him 'we are not giving any money away right now'... he continues on and on and when he has finally fully convinced himself that I am not kidding about not giving him a dime he says rather angrily.... 'Well thank you for your candor' what candor I said but 3 sentences to him while he talked the whole time... and then he goes' If you ever, ever need help, if anything ever ever happens pleeeeaaase don't hesitate to call us.'

Right, like I need help from the masonic temple. gee whiz it's the last place I would ever take my kid in a medical emergency.. worse than last I think we'd rather die first.

I know I'm a little off subject but I lived in Florida up until 2003. There, I received solicitation phone calls every day. One (and sometimes two) day(s) per week I would receive 15 calls from solicitors. That is significantly more calls than I receive on the business line.

Needless to say, after dealing with several hundred solicitors, I developed the ability to hang up as soon as I detect a solicitor is on the line.

The bulk of the calls comes from Dial America which was literally located 5 minutes from my house in Port Richey. It's in the plaza on the corner of Ridge Rd and Little Rd. The rest of the calls came from something-something Marketing Research that was about 10 minutes from my house and is located about 5 minutes further south on Little Rd.

When I first moved to NY, there were no solicitation calls. Now, I get about 4 per day and most of them are from the same two call centers in Florida.

Fax solicitation is against the law because it requires ink and/or toner which incurs a recipient financial cost with each "ad". The same philosophy should be applied to solicitation calls because it requires our time and labor which is property and is more valuable than ink or toner:

"God hath given the world to men in common... Yet every man has a property in his own person. The labor of his body and the work of his hands are properly his. ..."

—John Locke


This also happens to be why the founders considered income tax immoral. So do I.

Caller ID is helpful. Never answer calls from 800 numbers.

Of course some would say I'm biased against users of 800 numbers, grouping them all into one category like brown eggs here, white eggs there, speckled eggs in that corner, tomatoes in another...

Funny thing is, I am always sorry about answering calls from 800 numbers. A little bit of experienced discrimination does help make my day more pleasant even though I know it's politically incorrect. Luckily, I am not a politician.

Bread here, butter there... bacon in the garbage can.

If I do end up talking to them, I say "I'm only going to tell you this once, I do not have the finances right now to help anybody but myself" If they try again, I ask them to politely hold on a minute, and put the phone down and just leave.

Or you can just start asking them for $.

nice idea but I cannot just put the phone down and walk away because someone else is usually always calling during business hours.

One time I gave money to some 'organization' where a guy called with a bleeding heart story... handicapped whatever... then a couple months later there were all these fasicious charges on my credit card. It's not wise to give money to people over the phone to begin with. If they call you, you really have no idea where they are calling from, phone numbers can even be spoofed to show up as other legitimate numbers on caller-id.

People are so dishonest it's sickening sometimes. But it's that trait that makes it easy for them to accept something like evolution I guess. They have no desire to really know the truth... they have no desire to really know if God exists because that would mean they would have to let go of all the other lies their lives are built upon.

But it doesn't really matter. They are easier to manage that way, just play songs to their egos and they love you for a little while.Kind of like catering to the lowest common denominator but that is a lot of what our society is built on, from television to the classroom where everyone waits for the dumb kids to catch up, which of course they never do but we pat them on the back and give them a passing grade to help them not feel bad about it.

I was thinking the other day, wouldn't it be funny if kids and parents had the choice of being taught either creationism or evolution in the classroom, depending on what they believed? Can you imagine the uproar that would would ensue when little Jenny goes home and asks her mommy why she is decended from apes but little Julie next door is a creation of God?

In reality though, it's the avoidance of that uproar that keeps evolution in our schools, nothing more.

It's impossible to prove God to anyone who has no desire to know him, and so for some people he really does not exist. If God, as he says somewhere in Isaiah I think, should turn his face away from us when we sin, then we are probably ok to do the same and move on without the naysayers. It's not really up to us to prove God to anyone, especially if God is not bothering with it.

Maybe some people really are descended from animals and bacteria. If they believe it so strongly there must be a reason. I have met people in life who I believed were soulless, just empty shells. I have no rational explanation for it either, but people are different, one to the other. Even in the bible, God calls certain people 'living souls' and others he just calls people, without much ado.

If you look at the history of the bible, God has been bothering with it all along. Even in the presence of miraculous events the majority of people didn't believe, Even bible prophecy which is right there for us, predicted Christ would be enthroned as King in the year 1914, his first act was to oust satan and confine him to the earth for a short time (rev 12:7-12) What happened in 1914? World War 1 a war on the scale that no one had ever seen or contemplated. 19,000,000 dead. World war 2 eclipsed that one, 50-60,000,000 dead. Earthquake frequency and death toll has increased, now averages 100,000 a shot. Famine, just in children 5,000 a day die from famine. Natural disasters are occuring everywhere and more frequently- Hurricanes, Landslides, Tsunami's. Pesilence 1918 the spanish flu wiped out at least 20,000,000 people. HIV alone has killed 22,000,000 since is recognized appearance in 1985. Estimated 36,000,000 infected now that will be dead in a few years. It's now the fourth leading cause of death in the world. Cancer 45,000,000 in the last 20 years. The numbers are staggering and fulfill Matthew 24:7,8, 2 Tim 3:1-5. There are more that I don't have time to cover, but the info is there for people who want to see it. Living in a cozy country such as the US many are blinded by materialism and propaganda that the world is just peachy.

One thing I find ironic is that we have attempted every form of human government we can think of, Monarchies, Socialism, Fascism, Communism, Dictatorships, Democracy. And you couldn't name one problem, not a single problem that mankind has managed to solve. They call faith in God crazy, I see faith in man as a little crazier.

Se la vi.

What bible prophecy, where, does it state that Christ is enthroned as king in the year 1914?

As I see it, God exists and he is working daily... miraculous events wherever you choose to find them I suppose you can find them. However, He is not standing anywhere proving himself to anyone in that context... to believers, to whom he says directly, 'prove me', indeed he does but to those who are not interested, I really do not see that he bothers. There may be those that he considers his own that have gone astray, but that is another matter altogether. people don't believe even in the face of unexplainable miraculous events, because God is not proving himself to them. He is proving himself to you or to me who look for him. That's how I see it anyway, after many years of trying to convince non-believers of the reality of God. He has not spoken to them in ways that would endear himself and prove himself to them, and therefore my human words are meaningless also. He knows how to reach anyone and make them understand, but he does not bother with everyone, only some.

I know a lot of crazy people.. I am slightly insane from 47 years here too but I do my best. Vexed by the world. I am a lot better than I used to be. I do not know how I survived without Jesus. Well yes I do, he was there in the background helping me and I never knew it for the most part. But it was a struggle, paying for it dearly with my health today but I think I'll overcome that, with his help. I am a lot smarter in a pragmatic sense than I used to be, for that I do thank him because I wasn't like that at all before. I never worried about the future, was very short-sighted. He has given me a long farsighted view of the future and that is good because prior I was truly lost. There is much evidence that we are in what they call 'the endtimes', but people have seen themselves in that predicament for many generations too so I am not sure. I think in reality every generation is in the endtimes of a sort... because each one only has so many years to come to a place of peace with God, which is all that really matters in the end, whenever that may be for each and everyone of us.

I really did want to know where this prophecy was located, about Christ being enthroned as king in the year 1914.

far as I know he was king from the get go... riding on his donkey down main street... which was a bible prophecy actually, Isaiah I think.

This won't mean much unless you look up the cited scriptures. He was king in the sense that he was the one who was going to be king, but not at that time and not in that place. You seem to recall scriptures so you will probably remember in John 18:36 Jesus answered: “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.” Since his kingdom was not in that "here and now" it must have been later, and somewhere else. However, since there was never a predessor, or a successor, he could always be referred to as the king.

As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations [“the times of the Gentiles,”KJ] are fulfilled.” Jerusalem was often a symbol of true worship, and the "Nations" was often a symbol of temporary, worldly rulership. There was to be an appointed time that the nations would be allowed to rule, until new rulership was enthroned.

Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation—the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah’s rulership.

How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be “trampled on by the nations”? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. “Jehovah’s throne” became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: “Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has “the legal right” to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.

When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: “Let seven times pass over it.”—Daniel 4:10-16.

In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God’s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this ‘trampling of Jerusalem’ would be temporary—a period of “seven times.” How long a period is that?

Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal “a thousand two hundred and sixty days.” “Seven times” would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of “a day for a year,” the “seven times” would cover 2,520 years.

The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, “the appointed times of the nations” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King.(Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.) 2520 years from 607 BCE would bring us to the year 1914 (october to be exact)...since there is no year 0

Just as Jesus predicted, his “presence” as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments—war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of “the last days” of this present wicked system of things.—2 Timothy 3:1-5.

Are you too completely and utterly insane?

Do you realize you believe in a magical being in the sky? Do you realize that you're the same suckers who would've believed in Zeus, or Tlalloc, or Allah, had you been born in a different time and place?

Ask yourself this: why would an omnipotent creator give two shits whether or not his creation believed in him? It is totally ridiculous.

You two sound like absurd and foolish children. It's just sad.

hmm. it will take me a bit to digest all of that in that sequence. But I will give it somethought the next few days. Either way for now, just the same anyway I guess. Far as I can tell, he is very close which, despite setbacks, is a good thing. I have always gone on the presumption that his kingdom was now, is, in a certain sense. But we are waiting for something, it's pretty obvious too, otherwise he could end all the nonsense in a heartbeat

By your definition, probably. But even you will see the light someday. fact is stranger than fiction, really it is.


Magical? Well I suppose one might see it that way. But it's way beyond magic. Zeus, Allah..?? no.. you really do not understand. I actually was born into a religion very much like that, a sucker somewhat... then one day God showed up in my life via his son, Yeshua. Changed my perspective rather drastically rather quickly, rather upset my whole world view matter of fact.

But I am managing as you can see. And I wouldn't change a moment of it. My entire extended family (mostly) has been calling me insane for that reason for years, I'm used to it. But the worst of them have died by now anyway so even that is not so difficult anymore.

I guess you would really have to ask me, which is more difficult, to deny something I know or to accept something you think you are sure of? Would it make you happy if I simply agreed with you? But that's a terribly awkward position for me, you see.

Ask your self this: why would you have children and throw their decendants that seek you in the trash bin? I imagine you do not have children so maybe cannot possibly answer that coherently and truthfully. I also see this life as something more than just about us human beings, there is a continual judgement happening, which we do become involved in, but it didn't start with us. It started with some of God's other sons and some of us just get caught up in it haphazardly a lot of the time, though not always, sometimes by full conscious choice also. There's more going on here than meets the eye, so I am not even going to assume I know all the things God cares about.

All of that aside, fact is, God is. And basically you are only here to choose your side, his or the other. It's up to you. If you don't care about him, you can hit the garbage dump with all your might and he will be just fine with that if it truly makes you happy. But don't expect him to chase you if you enjoy rolling in the mud, even though the mud is full of hookworms and mercury. The prodigal son didn't exist until he knocked on the door.


Sad to you. But I bet you say that whenever someone holds different beliefs than you do. Some might call that a rather sad position as well. Were you born with this intrinsic knowledge? You must be very special.