Unfortunately, we completely missed the point here.

The point is that the Bible and evolution are mutually exclusive. This means that one or the other are untrue, and since the Bible is so intricately connected and cross referenced internally you simply have to accept that the Bible is a conspiracy if you believe evolution is true. There is no way to avoid this logic.

Also, the Bible is quite clear between what is parable and what is literal and what is symbolic, and anyone who takes the time to check out the book will find that evolution is not compatible with the Bible in any way.

These issues address very important questions in life, and as important as this subject is, it's amazing that no one properly address the "playing roulette" question that I raised earlier. It was casually glossed over, yet, it is one of many logistics that prevents the possibility of evolution.

To be clear, time does not increase chance. It only confuses the issue for those who don't understand this concept and therefore makes evolution "seem" more feasible, and so for those who don't analyze this but instead choose to "feel it out", evolution becomes a very real "trap".

As for what Jill stated about what the Bible says...



Jill, I've read the Bible about 8 times cover to cover. The Bible does not suggest this at all.

Jill, you're not being intellectually honest here. In another post you essentially asked if the Bible said the Earth was 6000 years old (you said, "doesn't it?"). Now you say dogmatically that the Bible says the Earth is 6000 years old. There's something wrong here Jill.

It's a simple matter to find this out. Please go to Bible.com and search for the place where the Bible says this and post it here.

Jill, you also said...



Again, you're blindly believing those who say things (hearsay) without checking it out or seeming them for yourself. Not only that, but this statement is even in great debate in the scientific community. Show me a transitional form, please.



Study further and you will find that the dating methods used are based on huge assumptions (Remember the earlier talk about measuring the radioactive decay curves? Check it out.). Secondly, we are assuming that these findings are somehow connected with humans.

Potassium, argon, carbon... Tell me how these curves were determined and I'll show you that 99.9% of the curve is based on pure assumption.

I love science, but this is simply not science.



No, there really isn't.

The few examples that you find in the textbooks have already been torn apart as junk science and lies, not science. Again, I really wish you would watch the video's that I have provided for you.



This idea is again based on bad science and gigantic assumptions about dating.

Again, tf you would watch the videos that I link to, you will find that many of the species that this type of politically$$$motivated science refers to are still alive today. Again, there is another agenda at work here and you've caught in it's net.

Watch this all the way through. I have.

Hovind: Lies In The Textbooks



Another simple but huge mistake based on enormous assumptions.

There is a huge difference between changes between kinds and beneficial mutations. If you learn the difference you will see your mistake here. You're putting a lot of faith in people you don't know.



Now, this is exactly the kind of magic and snake oil that I've been talking about Jill. To believe that natural processes can make these kinds of long-term changes is a fundamental flaw in logic and it's amazing to me that any intelligent person can be so confused by the addition of time to the equation. Of course, that's exactly why time is added to the equation, because it confuses people, and again, you've been caught in this net.

First of all, you have to realize that the equation is not about time, it's actually about the number of events that occur. Again, time is used in proxy to intentionally confuse the issue.

Now I'll explain (again) how event-counting decreases—not increases— the chance of beneficial change in this context.

Think carefully about the roulette wheel statistic.

For example, what are the chances of landing red on the roulette wheel when there are 50% red and 50% black? 50% or 1:2.

OK, now what are the chances of landing red twice in a row? 1:4.

OK, now what are the chances of landing red three times in a row? Four times in a row? Do you see the trend here?

Now let's make the model more realistic by reducing the ratio of red to black to account for the number of beneficial mutations to the number of harmful ones. To be very conservative and to favor evolution, let's say 1 red for every 1,000,000 black. I would think we would agree on this.

OK, spin the wheel. The chance of landing red is now 1:1,000,000.

Now spin again. The chance of landing red a second time in a row is 1*.25:1,000,000 or 1:4,000,000.

Now, let's repeat this process a few billion times keeping track of the number of times that we bet on red.

You see, when you count the number of actual events, it becomes clear that mathematically, evolution is a clear loser.

Now, if that were not enough, in order to be intellectually honest, we would have to consider intricate reproductive system design, protein folding mechanisms, symmetry, and a host of other "evolutionary anomalies" (problems) that further (and greatly) diminish the evolutionary bet into oblivion.

Think carefully about this.

I sincerely hope that those persons interested in truth patiently taking the time to read through all this post will recognize the applicability of this model.

Now, just for good measure, I will provide a link to a lecture that helps people understand just how the non-scientific promotion of politically $$$ motivated ideas work.

I do not agree with everything this person says, but the core of the information pertaining to the process and procedures used to promote "junk science" is 100% applicable to the faith of evolution:

Junk Science: Global Warming Myth Busted




Irony of ironies!

[color:"red"]Amazingly, this is an astounding belief that is exactly what man-made religion and tyranny itself is made of:[/color]

"Only when you posses some special man-made approval can you draw conclusions of logic and reason."

This is a truly amazing and revealing insight into your ideology, Jill.

This is actually the fundamental belief of any sort of despotic system and is truly dangerous. This is, ironically, the fundamental implementation that has resulted in mass mercury toxicity, and other cover ups (such as the pulling of all mercury research by NIH as per Dr. Haley) that results in vast occurrences of autism and the spread of all kinds of other disease that has its root in man-made toxins.

I'm quite sure that Jill does not recognize the danger in this belief, but a little intelligent research will reveal the ultimate end of this philosophy.

Here is a quote from an intelligent man:


[color:"brown"]"Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an underground dictatorship... To restrict the art of healing to one class of men and deny equal privileges to others will constitute the Bastille of medical science. All such laws are un-American and despotic and have no place in a republic... The Constitution of this republic should make special privilege for medical freedom as well as religious freedom."[/color]

—Benjamin Rush MD, Signer of the Declaration of Independence
(emphasis mine)

[color:"brown"]"If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."[/color]

—Thomas Jefferson




Two problems here.

First, the Bible was not written for people to explain natural disasters. You are making another vast assumption that the Bible explains them all as God created. This is simply not true. You know nothing about the Bible.

Jill, this is important to understand:

these kinds of vast assumptions are exactly the kind of mindset required to accept evolution. I say this to encourage you to examine yourself for your own benefit and weed out your assumptions separating them from evidenced "facts" and create a category in your mind where you keep things that you know nothing about. This helps limit this kind of confusion.

Secondly, you cannot judge a book by what people believe about it. Again, this type of conclusion-drawing comes from an assumptive mindset.

I hope you will take time to actually read the Bible and use your intellectual ability to check out prophecy and gematria. It is truly an amazing study that has changed the lives of most who have examined it. I hope you will be one of them.



VeggieJuicer, I was offended by Christ when I read the Bible the first time through, however, I knew that I had to be intellectually honest and examine if the evidence for Christ's claims regardless of my emotions and see if they would stand up to scrutiny.

My findings resulted in the discovery that the evidence supporting the assertion that Christ is who He said He was is not only astounding, it surpasses known natural processes. I am no longer offended by Him because I know through study of the evidence that He was telling the truth when He told us who He was.

As an honest person seeking truth and using intellectually honest methods to find it—dismissing my own personal desires and emotions and learning to separate what I truly know from what is unknown—my life changed dramatically and for the better as a result. I wish the same for you and for everyone who reads this.

It is clear that those on this thread arguing against the credibility of the Bible have no personal knowledge of it. This is intellectually dishonest and I again would encourage anyone lacking in knowledge about the Bible to check it out for themselves.

I will give a very solemn warning that those who oppose the integrity of the Bible in mainstream media do so with an agenda that benefits them and victimizes you in ways that you have not yet discovered. The promotion of evolution serves exactly the same purpose.

I would encourage anyone who had not read and studied the Bible, to objectively examine what it has to offer. I believe you will discover what most who have taken this intellectual challenge have already learned, and that is, that the Bible is unique and powerful—far above any other text that they have examined and that it leads to the changing of lives in deep, powerful, dramatic, and beneficial ways.

An understanding of the Bible implicitly puts power into the hands of common people distributing it away from a few centralized power brokers who, throughout history, have been very corrupt and destructive. This is why the united States was so economically successful around the turn of the previous century and this is also why the power brokers continue to assault the Biblical text in the centrally-owned mainstream media.

It is best not to parrot anti-Bible statements or gross assumptions. If you do, you are unknowingly participating in the same destructive process that has torn down economies and caused wars and suffering the world over. An understanding of the Bible liberates you and sets you free. It does not cause wars. It is the greed of those who hate the liberating power of the Bible who cause wars and then slander the Book by blaming the very evil they commit on the book.

The power brokers who use you know you better then you know yourself, hence the reason I keep saying: "know thyself". If you do, you will not be an asset to their purposes. Again, some honest study will show how very literally true this is.


"None Are More Hopelessly Enslaved Than Those Who Falsely Believe They Are Free!"

—Johann von Goethe


"Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body. Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison."

—James 3:3-8


Just wanted to share this cool sunset that is visible from my home-office window.

<img src="http://herballure.com/ForumExtras/Images/cwbtiqwgio.jpg">


New Age Bible Versions

Hovind: Lies In The Textbooks

Junk Science: Global Warming Myth Busted

The Conspiracy Thread

Deadly Immunity