Tracy, good to see you here. Yes, thanks for starting this thread. I'm surprised myself at how much I've been talking here. It seems to have tapped into some parts of my psyche that have been sleeping for a long time, and reminded me of all the things I used to think about and be interested in. In fact I've learned about myself from the sorts of things I've been saying. Yes I know we're here because we're ill, but I'm really glad this little outlet has been here because I've found it very healing.

Bex, I'm not sure why people should consider it to be such a blow that we were not personally molded out of primordial clay by a god. (Or taken from Adam's rib if you like.) When I consider all life, right down to microbes, I find it amazing, a mircale in itself -- though not divienly ordained. I don't feel it is demeaning to have evolved from apes, I find it empowering to have an idea of where I've come from, and how much the human race has achieved since. I don't feel so fragile that I need to be reassured that a god handcrafted me, my sense of purpose in life doesn't need to come from that.

My personal feelings about why crimes by young people, particularly men, are on the rise, are varied, but I wouldn't have thought evolution had much to do with it. One issue is that society is more fragmented, that many young men do not have any male role models at home, and that people are not raised to respect others the way many used to be. I've experienced the consequences of these trends firsthand through teaching.

I also believe that young men lack any coming-of-age ritual today. Something that marks a significant turning point in their lives and initiates them into the world of adult men. Many societies still have these rituals and they have a large psychological importance. The kids around here don't have this, which is why I think a lot of them find gangs attractive. Gangs satisfy the need for bonding and coming-of-age. In fact, ritual is sadly lacking in most areas of life now, and to a non-Christian, Christmas and Easter are only times for the retial sector to make money, their oiginal pagan meanings having been obscured with time. I wouldn't mind celebrating a festival of lights at the winter solstice, but it would feel pretty meaningless if I did it alone. These things are much better when done in groups.

Maybe I got off the subject here . . . I think I was trying to say that if our society was more cohesive, if we had more of an identity and traditions and non-religious rituals, surely that would satisfy the need for belonging and purpose just as much as a belief that a god created us all.