<<I hope this post helps you understand some of these concepts. .....I dealt with that question when I pointed out that time is a created thing. Multidimensional physics is a difficult thing for most people to conceptualize, but it is Biblical.

God created time. The terms you use—such as "Before"—is a term that denotes thinking—or in your case—asking a question within the realm of time. God not only created >> (note use of past tense by yourself) <<this universe and it's multidimensional structure, He created time itself.>> (again note use of past tense)

<<I know that it's difficult to get your mind wrapped around the idea of time being a created thing, but give it a try. >>

Do you run Red lights when you drive?
if not you belive in time. And live in the realm of time, yourself.
Do you know what I will post next? If so tell me now.
if you cannot you are totally subject to time, and only blowing smoke.

<<The best and only way to discover deep truth is to get yourself out of the way. How we "feel" about truth is completely irrelevant and is a clear indication that you have not discovered this fact (the importance of getting yourself out of the way) as of yet.
...Truth is not about how we feel. That is incidental.>>

Again you don't realize YOU are really run by feelings or unconcious belifes--not ideas as you would like to think...
Again...do you run Red lights when you drive? if not you belive in time.
And probably fear death as well.

Quote:
Deep experiential spirituality maybe manifested for example as the ability to immolate oneself as the Buddhist monks did during the Vietnam war, and would not seem to be dependent upon intellectual arguments as to the truth or falsity of Darwinian Evolutionary Theory.
But this depth is very rare of course. I just have to learn to accept myself as I am. If I can't do that, how can I escape judging "others"?

<<Escaping judging others is not the end-all goal of truth. Furthermore, the states reached by monks deal with and are related to emotion. >>

I agree it's about facts.
Do you use anesthetic when you go to the dentist?
Are you indifferent to all pain?
We agree that most organized religion is superficial.

<<In fact, every religion in the world subjectively "reveals" truth using the emotions as a guide to some extent. However, the Bible says not to find truth this way.>>

The bible maybe wonderful and beautiful to some people BUT What the bible says is of no importance in a court of law, or as a "talking point" in any logical argument--it is simply an appeal to Authority by those who FEEL it is an Authority, and thus any appeal to it is obviously feeling based, and a failure to understand what is meant by objective standards...or science.

<<Religion is a man-made thing. I'm talking about truth—What is truth.
If God is real, than it is true that God is real regardless of any man's religion. Does that make sense. >>

Obviously...no arguement here

<<I hope that makes this conversation a little more clear. Religion is essentially entertainment,...>>

No it's not. It fullfills deep psychological needs.

<<...and that has come to fruition in today's "Churches". God is about a personal relationship that changes your life literally forever. I experience this relationship. It is part of my life. >>

Sounds good, on paper...however at this point whatever it means in practice for you is anybody's guess.

<<Unfortunately, because most people assume that others are like themselves, they assume that discussions like this are coming from an emotional place. This is not true with me. I understood a long time ago that a search for truth is not to be guided by my own personal desires or emotions.>>

...Again this sounds good...but when it comes to logic your appeal to the authority of the bible, which fails any test of logic or objectivity, but which you love, shows that you have no grasp of leaving yourself out of anything.

<< It is external to me (and you).

Quote:
...It seems you believe that there is a conspiracy or conspiracies afoot to keep folks hoodwinked. This seems far-fetched when you consider for a moment one example which is typical: That large corporations that pollute also harm the bosses and their families. Of course in many ways the very rich are rather insulated. It is a true that they can buy "Justice" and keep their kids out of the army, but this is a Truism not a Hidden Conspiracy.
Quote

<<Well, there are a few things that I know a thing or two about, and that is conspiracies. They are not for guessing, or for deciphering by your emotions (as you stated in the next paragraph where you said "it would seem to me").>>

"seems to me" does not mean the same thing as " I feel". I know that it's difficult to get your mind wrapped around this subtlety.

<<Conspiracies are clear and open to study. They are easy to find. A global conspiracy, in fact, is very hard to cover up.>>

So what? You completely miss the point that folks are by and large agressive, greedy,
selfish, and fairly self destructive, ( partly due to stored unconcious pain and hurt ) and of rather moderate intelligence, coupled with extremly high vanity, etc.. Given this mix, it only takes the folly of civilization to light the fuse...
...If you read the bible you love so much, more carefully you might get that this is what the story of "the Garden of Eden" refers to metaphorically. Civilization begins with the transition to agriculture, ( from the hunter-gatherer stage) and adding grain to the diet; which makes possible greater population, a standing army, and taxes etc. Which of course make possible all the goodies of "civilization" like war and prisons. This process is unfortunately repeated again and again through out history on different continents. There is no need for any conspiracies. Again and again humans mistreat one another wontonly, in unbelievable ways, at the drop of a hat. This is history, not paleontology.
Only now logorithmic growth of technology has been added to the mix--making the world situation more volitile, nothing mysterious.

<<The best place to start research is in law to understand how those who conspire use law to tie you up into UCC contracts (ever see an American flag with a yellow fringe around it?). Again, it's very important to remember that this idea about global conspiracies is not my idea. It's what I learned through research. I wish it were not true but there no guesswork about it. The only reason you don't believe in or understand global conspiracies is because you have never studied them. ...>>

On the contrary, as with the Kennedy assasination...conspiracies are irrelevant--wether Communist, "Democratic", or a Dictatorship--all governments are and always have been corrupt--SH+T rises to the top, just like cream---this is as old as the hills--nothing new--nothing shocking here...the folks at the bottom are always oppressed, and the poor frightened folks at the "top" addicted to power are driven by unconcious fears. Partly due to stored unconcious pain and hurt; which is partly held in place by beliving one is free of being run by feelings. I know that it's difficult to get your mind wrapped around the idea of repression applying to us all, not just those in therapy, but give it a try. If it doesn't make you feel too uncomfortable to really begin to explore feelings.

<<you had better get busy.>>

Again i disagree:
You don't have to get busy, you can stick to the beliefs you are comfortable with,
we all do our best, ... "muddy water becomes clear by not stirring it up", and you are probably an even kinder person than you realize, when you're not desperate to prove a point, and maintain a world view that gives you some sense of hope.