Someone wrote recentlly on here about those of northern European descent being more predisposed to metal toxicity...and it seems to me that it is pretty right on. Both my grandfathers were from Norway and it seems that we have alot of Brits on here as well.

Does anyone have any links about this theory? I can't remember where or from whom this statement originated.

Anyone???

Sandi
xoxo

Very interesting possibility. Would it be worth running a poll to see?

I posted some links on ApoE gene polymorphism in this thread (and this one). The ApoE4 allele, which increases in frequency from south to north Europe, results in the enzymes which are the weakest internal mercury chelators from the brain (ApoE3 is better, ApoE2 is the best but very rare in Europe). Interestingly, ApoE4 is also associated with the highest intelligence (ApoE2 with lowest) at younger and middle age, but also the highest rates of psychoses and faster mental decline with aging. The ApoE3+E3 or E3+E4 combo may be the best to have on balance.

This is of interest when considering studies measuring the effects of amalgams on humans -- if you pick younger to middle-age subjects, you won't see damage to IQ since ApoE4 who would be damaged the most would have higher IQ (on average) to start with, hence mercury would merely cause IQ spread to narrow, pushing the ApoE4 down toward ApoE3 and ApoE2 (who would be much less damaged). This masking effect of the ApoE polymorphism & IQ association would be most pronounced for tests on children (which is how the recent pro-amalgam studies were done; they also picked southern Europe, such Portugal, or for USA the non-European minorities, which would have the max frequency of ApoE3 and ApeE2 in Europe, hence it would have the least mercury sensitive population -- all choices clearly selected on purpose into the design of studies to whitewash the toxicity). See also a critique of a 2003 pro-amalgam study on adults, which used a different statistical trick.

Google scholar and regular google on ApoE+allele+mercury will give you lots of good hits. If you add countries in search terms (you can remove mercury for that search), you can get what your ancestors likely have (in my case it is 96% ApoE3, thus not too bad odds). You get from each of your parents one ApoE allele copy, yielding thus 6 possible pairs you could have: ApoE4+4, 4+3, 4+2, 3+3, 3+2, 2+2.

Keep in mind though, that present science is still extremely primitive in these matters of very subtle biochemistry. ApoE polymorphism is certainly one bit of the puzzle identified so far, but the largest part of this story is still a mystery. Tune in and listen carefuly to your own biochemical networks, which are far smarter in this realm than all the doctors & scientists in the world put together.

I think I must have been born with some kind of problem with mercury. My Mother had a mouth full of amalgams (and I hear that mercury has an affinity for breast milk and can be found in breast milk in large amounts). When she breast fed me, I was so ill, the nurse told Mum to stop "you are poisoning her". They didn't know what was wrong, but decided to put me on a formula.

I suffered severely from continual colic and even as a kid, though otherwise healthy, happy and energetic, I always had a tendency towards some kind of bowel, bladder upset.

Only when I got braces at age 15, did all the sh*t hit the fan. From that point on, I suffered constantly from toxicity and one health problem to another. Everything fell apart, almost immediately. I was also metal sensitive and could'nt wear jewelery etc.

Even after the braces came off, I only marginally improved, but that was pretty much the end of my previous "health". I developed glandular fever, and then from there, became bloated, grey in the face, suffering continual candida problem and gluten/wheat allergies and yeast.

Only relief i got was from the candida diet (no antidepressants helped).

Finally figured out mercury may have been causing issues, due to puffy tissues in the legs, metal taste, and my crying and salivating spells and cold body temperature (blue nails). Even though the candida diet helped the symptoms, the underlining problem remained.

Embarked on amalgam removal, didn't notice much change at first. Over time, having less amalgams, I began to improve even further.

Last amalgam removal, I swallowed the mercury, was severely poisoned. Suffered tremors, muscle tics, headaches, crying, salivating, you name it.

INitial symptoms abated a little, but I remained sicker. Was put on various chelation regimes, then on DMPS IV, and that really did it. That shoved all the stored mercury into my blood stream and I was full on poisoned from that point on. I was forced into detoxing this mercury.

I had years of screaming fits, salivating, crying, being bedridden, depression, and on it went. It would abate, then flare up and I knew I was detoxing, but it was devastating, because it would continue to build up and then I'd have to go through that to release a little and so it would go on.

Finally started to see the light, got healthier, happier and it was amazing. Sadly, got hit with a bacterial infection not long after these improvements and my immune system was shattered.

Since then, I've not ever recovered or improved. Been through all the chelations and cleanses and all sorts of things, had more dental work done only to find it's made me even worse.

I now suffer constant bacterial/viral type symptoms, plus whatever problem is in my mouth/jaw (infection I gather), and battling continual gut issues. the symptoms now are worse than all the years I had before. I've almost taken my own life, but one hangs in there I guess through fear and what it might do to your loved ones.

That's my story in a nutshell without going into specific details the entire way.

lol sorry for going on, I didn't expect to unleash it all, but I got carried away. But it goes to show, something has to be not quite right from the word go in order for all this to hound me all my life. Othewrise it would happen to everybody and it doesn't.

I had no more fillings than most people. I was brought up the same way as most people. Had my share of healthy food and junk as most kids and really I do not know what it was in me that made me so suseptible and have such odd symptoms.

Bex, don't worry about venting...I got my first dose of mercury from my Mom too and gave it to both my sons thru breastmilk as well..probably a good thing you gave your daughter formula. Are your ancestors of northern European heritage? Didn't most Kiwi's come from the British Isles?

I think I also inherited the gluten intolerance from my dad's side...they were all chronically constipated just like me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I wonder if that is an problem that we inherited too?

Thanks for the expert info Nightlight...sounds like you have done your research...I would like ot know which category I fall in..but I think I already know. I was a straight A student..but you would never know it now...somedays I can't remember my own name, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />..well not quite that bad.

Thanks again,
Sandi
xoxo

Hi Sandi, I don't have a daughter, Mum gave "me" the formula. I can't be certain it was from the mercury in her breastmilk, but doen'st seem to be much other explanation. Though she was stressed out during that time, so maybe this altered her milk or something....I just don't know.

Yes, my ancestors are from England, Norway, Ireland mainly.

I think I was just poisoned from the word go, I spent most of my school years daydreaming and getting low marks. They even wanted to hold me back a year!

My mum had a mouthful of amalgam when she had me and only breast fed me for 3 mths, all my brothers and sisters got about 8mths of breast milk, she said i didnt like it so she put me on formular. when i got my immunisations my mum told me i went blue and past out and was unable to have anymore.
i was very slow atr school, always daydreaming, never mixed with other kids and had terrible excma and swollen glands on my neck, then i had thyroid problems in my early teens and had to have most of it removed.
I also remember having a bit of OCD when i was young but thought everyone got it.
I am so glad i didnt breast feed my 2 daughters, my youngest got an amalgam filling when she was only about 5, she changed overnight, and had loads of symptoms, shes a bit better now the fillings gone.

Sorry Bex...blame it on brain fog...I ate some fruitcake yesterday..dumb, I know and mobilized some mercury I guess...from the sulfured fruit. Better stick to the sauerkraut. so much for the Christmas treats for another year!!!

Guess I will have my pity party and go to bed...wahhh...poor me!!! Back to the high fibre muffins and pumpkin seed butter. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Sandi
xoxo

Oh Sandi, you bad woman, how dare you enjoy a little fruit cake at Christmas season! That's it, it's carrot sticks for you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Poor you. I do know how this feels trust me. We get punished over something so darned small, that you feel as though you've just had a week's worth of partying, when you've eaten one darn fruit cake.

Interesting from an atrcile in the Economist regarding genetics and disease:

http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=6795348

"ApoE4 is relatively common in most racial groups. About 9% of Japanese Americans have it, 14% of white Americans and 19% of black Americans. But the impact of ApoE4 differs significantly between these groups. Individuals of Japanese descent who have two copies of ApoE4 (one from each parent) have a 33-fold increased risk of contracting Alzheimer's disease compared with those who have other versions of ApoE. Those of European descent have a 15-fold increased risk. Blacks, by contrast, have a mere six-fold increase in their risk. “Whether it is due to differences in genetic background or environment, who knows? But if you ignore race, you would never know,” says Dr Risch. Moreover, if the American population was sampled for ApoE4 and Alzheimer's risk without regard for ethnicity, the risk would resemble that of whites, because their numbers would overwhelm the data from the other racial groups. As Dr Risch says, “I think these categories are useful as long as they are predictive. That doesn't prove that the difference is genetic.”

Wow it is pretty obvious that you and nightlight are affected to badly by hmt...that is alot for me to wrap my little head around!!!! :shocked <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

You know I just re-read my post. Its interesting that they say that Japanese people have a higher risk of AD given the APOE4 allele than whites or blacks. I wonder if the difference could be that the Japaese diet is much higher in fish (thus mercury) than white or black diets? hmmm....

That is the trouble with this affliction...there are so many factors at play.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> It really is an enigma...for me anyway.

I am not sure that Dr. Reich (or perhaps the reporter) has got all the qualifiers straight for a sample mentioned in that Economist quote. A google or google scholar search yields quite a few scientific papers with a significantly different breakdown. Check, for example, the abstract of a paper in the Journal of Clinical chemistry and laboratory medicine, 2003:

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The common polymorphism of apolipoprotein E: Geographical aspects and new pathophysiological relations
GERDES Lars Ulrik (Department of Clinical Biochemistry, Aarhus University Hospital, Aarhus Amtssygehus, Aarhus, DANEMARK)

Apolipoprotein E (apoE) has important functions in systemic and local lipid transport, but also has other functions. The gene (APOE) shows a common polymorphism with three alleles - APOE*2, APOE*3, and APOE*4. Their frequencies vary substantially around the world, but APOE*3 is the most common almost everywhere and is often considered to be the ancestral or wild-type allele for that reason. However, there are several arguments for APOE*4 being the ancestral allele. But then, why has APOE*3 become so frequent? And why has APOE*4 not become extinct? The proportion of APOE*4 carriers increases from only 10-15% in southern Europe to 40-50% in the north. The gradient may be a trace of the demic expansion of agriculture that began about 10,000 years ago, but it may also reflect the possibility that APOE*4 carriers are less likely to develop vitamin D deficiency. The common APOE polymorphism is associated with varying risk of cardiovascular disease and Alzheimer's disease, but other interesting aspects may emerge in the future.
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Are you and Asus doctors or researchers?

Are you and Asus doctors or researchers?

I am educated as a theoretical physicist (I also post as "nightlight" in PhysicsForum and sci.physics.research newsgroup, usually on foundations of "Quantum Theory", which was the subject of my thesis). As the oldest son of two medical doctors, though, I grew up with doctors around me and a large medical library at home, and enjoyed reading and discussing medical books and papers from early on.

Well it is really informative to have you guys on board...thanks so much for all you share.

Sandi
xoxo

My mom had a lot of fillings too. I've read that it comes thru the placenta, so I am planning to get mine out before I become pregnant.

Quantum physics is really amazing stuff. I just began learning a little about it (very limited by time) but it really takes many existing ideas of physics to a whole different level.

I was able to read Chaos: The Making of a New Science, and it was amazing in the same way (but a less dramatic way) than qp is.

Anyway, sounds like a very, very interesting field you're in. When can we read your thesis? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, sounds like a very, very interesting field you're in.

My day job is in computer industry (CTO and a chief scientist in a software company). The physics is now only a hobby, although I hope to publish few interesting bits of insight I stumbled upon while working on it just for fun, when I get more time from my regular work.

When can we read your thesis?

It is in serbo-croatian language and unpublished (translated title is "Paradoxes in Quantum Theory of Measurement"). I have only one paper copy, typed on a typewriter and covered in couple decades of dust. Few years after defending it, though, having left academic world and working in industry for a while, I realized that my advisor and I were completely wrong in the "solution" for the paradoxes proposed in the thesis. That realization is one of the mentioned bits I would like to publish some day.

Good stuff. Thanks for the details.

Northern European predisposition to mercury toxicity?
My sirname is of Scandinavian origin, so my ancestors were from northern europe...