Hi, i upped my dose of DMSA to 8mg and day 3 of the round i began feeling anxious and 3 days later im suicidal in a big way, i cant stop crying, im getting severe headaches and shaking all the time, im a mess, has anyone had a bad reaction after or during a round?
Its the first time its happened to me, i really wanted to at least get up to 25gms each dose but i dont think so now.

Dawn - are you taking anything for your adrenals? Chelation is really hard on the adrenals, and those symptoms suggest it may have been too much for them...

take something to support your adrenals and some Vit C, and that reaction should pass in a few days.

Nicola

Thanks nicola, yes im taking hydrocortisone, only 15mg daily and am on 4 grains of armour now, i take 4000mg vitc a day with Vit B 1 and B6.

Might want to up that HC on the days you are chelating, sort of stress dosing. Just a thought.

Nicola

Thanks, good idea.

HI Dawn, Shows how mercury toxic you are and how sensitive you are to the movement of it. At least you have tried to increase the dose and given it a go.

I bit the bullet oneday, even after bad effects on using small doses of DMSA and I went straight to 25 mg and it seemed to be better than the smaller doses. I don't know why that was.

I hope that you will be able to increase at some point and not go through that. For me? chealtion doesn't help anymore, so I know more is going on.

Hi Dawn,

I bet if you gradually get off the medication and stop mixing different medications with natural suppliments you won't be putting yourself in this dangerous situation. I noticed alot of the same people on this forum that are on pharmaceutical drugs of one kind or another, and mixing all kinds of different things togather in their poor already sick bodies, are suffering the most! It worries me because you could go to far.

As far as mercury and other toxic heavy metals go, I have been doing great with the way that I have been detoxing, with absoutely no side affects at all!!! I have plastered my posts all over this forum about how excellent the Moorbath, and the LL's magnetic clay baths effectively detox metals!!! I wish more people would try them, so they don't have to deal with the terrible side affects of DMSA and DMPS!!! I don't think Iv'e heard anyone else who tryed the the clay baths had any weird side affects from them. In fact most of them were impressed with how well, yet gentle they worked!

Another thing, I have the Filtrex Supreme white composites, which have Bis phenol A and Bis phenol GMA (which is the same thing) in them. This is an estrogen behaving substance that causes breast cancer, infertility, and other hormonal problems. So I used natural progesterone cream to balance the estrogen with the progesterone cream. It got rid of all the strange symptoms of high estrogen.

Then when I detoxed, went on a raw juice fast, and did fresh lemon enemas, it rejuvinated my liver to expell the excess estrogen. Then I started getting adrenaline symptoms from too much progesterone. So I cut down on the progesterone cream and the adrenaline dissappeared!!! If your taking natural progesterone cream maybe you should try cutting down on it. If not and your estrogen is too low anyway then soy and primrose oil are good natural estrogen promoters. If you take so any soy product than don't take more than 2 servings a day or your estrogen will go too high of course.

"PRESCRIIPTION FOR NUTRITIONAL HEALING," is an excellent book!!! Its by JAMES F. BALCH M.D. and PHYLLIS A. BALCH C.N.C. I don't think I would of lived this long if it wern't for all the things I learned in that very informative and accurate book!!!! You might even find it at the library, but its so good to always have around that I would definitely buy it!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you want to know where to get the Moorbath, than go to www.dermamed.com. Then click to, Specialty products. Then click to, Moorbath. PLEASE NOTE: Do not take the Moorbath if you have high blood pressure. For the LL's Magnetic clay bath go to, Alive and Aware Natural Health E bay store. Chris Hall is very kind and and always has great deals on his products!!!

I hope these suggestions help! Good luck and I hope you feel better very very soon!!!

FROM SCARLET,

Hi Dawn

how are you feeling this morning? I would take double your HC dose for a couple of days, then ease back, to get rid of some of the worst symptoms. Your body has had a shock, and needs more resources to recover. I do strongly believe that if your body is not producing enough cortisol to function properly, you do need to replace it to give yourself the best chance to recover, and also to use thyroid hormone. Go easy on yourself.

Nicola

Thanks nicola, yes i took your advice and doubled the dose, i dont feel as bad as i was.

What does the hydrocortisone do? I haven't heard of using that..but then I haven't been around for a bit.

Hi Dawn, what did you up the DMSA to? You were using 8 mg, what did you go up to? You may have taken too far an increase. I know someone who was only able to use 5 mg of DMSA and they improved even on that.

The problem is, one gets the impression that unless they are using a big enough dose like the next person, they won't get there. This is a misconception that dose is related to how much you will get better. Your body will only require enough DMSA that it needs to eliminate, no more than that. Pushing over the limit will flood it and possibly lead to backfire, when too much mercury is being pushed through and the body cannot keep up, so it backfires and you become in a sense "repoisoned". Some of this is not avoidable, there are always going to be some side effects, but just take it easy.

Stick to the diet as I am sure you are and next time if you use the DMSA, keep to a dose that you tolerate and if you want to increase, do it in TINY steps.

Bex, i was taking 6mg for 3 months, then i upped to only 8mg, then all hell broke loose, i was okay at 6mg just very mild reactions.I was hoping to increase the dose gradually, yes im on the diet, im sure i would be dead if i wasnt, thanks for your reply.
Sandi, Hydrocortisone is what i take for my adrenals, i was advised to start it a t very low doses, 20mg a day before i started to take Armour, if i didnt the armour wouldnt work properly and it would probably make me feel worse.
Cheers.

sorry to hear this Dawn, you were VERY careful indeed. Only 2 mg worth of difference and wow what a reaction. Obviously just enough to be too much.

I don't know if you felt the 6 mg was helping you at all?

I wish you all the best though and hope maybe if you chelate again, the 6 mg will do something over tme to where you can increase later.

I'm sorry you are so rough, Dawn. I don't know what to advise about the DMSA. It's not something I am going to use because I have heard it's risky. I think that without proper medical attention, it might be safer to do things as natural as possible - rather than make things worse for ourselves by "mixing" the wrong things. This is just my opinion, admittedly I am phobic of such things due to the OCD I have suffered from. But my personal motto is slowly but surely.

I don't believe DMSA is anymore harmful than any natural chealtion for mercury. I've heard of awful reactions to cilantro, chlorella, and other apparently healthy things to use for mercury. If DMSA is used at too high a dose or randomly, it too can cause the same adverse reactions. But even on the safe protocol, some still have issues. AGain though, I know that not everybody is going to respond as well as someone else might.

I believe the problems lie with the mercury, not so much the product - unless a person has a genuine adverse reaction to DMSA. I suffered horribly from using a garlic supplement, yet it's natural. I suffered horribly from NDF, yet it's made up of chlorella and cilantro....

But Demi is right to take things slowly and carefully, but natural isn't always better in regards to mercury, though it is for the body itself.

For example. Alpha lipoic acid is an excellent antioxidant and someone who doesn't have mercury in their system, could take a lot of this and do very well. Someone wtih mercury could end up with severe brain toxicity, from not using it appropriately.

So, a lot of this is risky, no matter what you use. THe only reason I go on about DMSA and the 4 hourly protocol is because it's touted by a qualified bio chemist who treats adults and kids all the time with mercury poisoning and there are two websites full of people using his regime and often doing it to try and undo damage from other things they had previously used for mercury.

I think what frightens me most about DMSA and chelation in general is that there are very different opinions by even experts. For example, Huggins is against chlorella and algin, but others swear by both. I don't want to make myself worse, even though maybe I could make myself better, especially as a vegetarian who are supposedly at a disadvantage according to Huggins (agreed with by some same people who disregard Huggins on the sea-products, which adds to the confusion - either he is right 100% on detox or he is not). So, I am kind of "stuck" when it comes to the chelation thing, haven't decided yet what I am going to do beyond the diet and vitamin thing. In short, I am terrified of doing the wrong thing because my brain has been really affected by mercury already and I have ongoing mental symptoms.

I think it all depends on the individual...hmt causes all of our systems to become unbalanced..there are so many factors and also where the burdens are the highest and which type of metals that we are highest in....we are all different and have to keep trying to find out what works for each of us as individuals.

That is why a good practitioner is such an asset..but unfortunately very expensive. I have to sometimes figure out if I should buy supplements or go to the ND...can't afford both or sometimes either.

And one of the biggest hurdles is that the information out there is so helter skelter cause it is not recognized by mainstream medicine...it is very difficult to find one source of reliable and organized researched information. I have just met a fellow sufferer that I met on this board and he wants to do just that...I am so excited about it...hopefully we can make a difference. He has some wonderful ideas and connections too!!!!

It is definitely not a poor man's disease and yet we seem to be the most afflicted. But as my ND says..."It appears that those who can least likely afford the treatments can afford it the least cause they are too sick to work."

Don't give up Dawn, as bleak as some days are...there ARE better days ahead.

Sandi
xoxo

Hi Demi, the only kind of consolation I can give you is this. I am highly sensitive, highly toxic, and I suffer horrible long term backfire effects from moving mercury in the wrong manner.

I have spent many years and have done MANY different protocols, using all sorts of products, natural and drug.

I have been through hell on earth basically. The ONLY things that finally ever actually did anything for me, was the candida diet, PLUS using DMSA Andy Cutler's way. Any OTHER way and I was a mess.

I even tried using just a 50 mg capsule once a day and it was horrible. I had to get on Andy's protocol and try and get the mobilised mercury to come out.

The problems with Andy's protocol are not going to be nearly as bad as the others. I can vouch for that. Again, it is not going to be an easy ride for most regardless of what they do. other people can do almost anything, they don't suffer the same way as people like us do.

I know you are scared and I can understand that. But if you ever wanted to try it, you "could" try and very very small amount of DMSA, get an alarm and try the every 4 hours (even through the night) routine and watch how you go. Upon any symptoms that become intolerable, you can stop the round.

Just a suggestion, though I wouldn't want to push you into doing anything. Being on the candida diet will help, as it will enable these toxins/metals to more easily move through, otherwise a person with significant gut candida, may get a backlash with any mercury detox they do, if the toxins are not able to pass through.

A good dose of DMSA is usually about 25 mg, but some find even that too high and have to start even as low as 6 mg and very slowly work their way up over time.

Before I had the problems I now have with infection in the gums and jaw, persistant viral illness (from getting it in 2003), I was healing from the mercury. I was using Andy's protocol too. So certainly, it did help me. Other stuff served mainly to mobilise and hurt me greatly for long periods of time. And that includes using DMSA once per day also. The every 4 hour way allowed me to continue chelating without feeling like I was going to go insane. The ONLY problems were over time, the symptoms might start to grow and I would realise it was time to stop the round and take a break.

E.g. to do that protocol and to do it for about a week? (most do only 3 days now), I would be ok for the first few days, but any longer and I would begin to get exhaustion, aching and feeling very ill and I'd stop and allow the break to recover and repeat again.

So you cannot expect no side effects, as anytime metals are moved/removed, you will get something, but at least I was able to do it without going crazy!

Thanks for the encouragement, Bex, but I can't handle taking vitamins, let alone the DMSA. I have so many phobias that I can't even eat some foods. My only hope is that my body excretes toxins quickly. I had chronic OCD as a child, but once I stopped getting amalgams and cut out fish, I had a vast improvement. Without some kind of chelation, that is somewhat "unusual", but I do think that some people naturally flush out the toxins, and others don't. I'm just going to see how it goes. I still have some amalgams, so need to get those sorted first (as soon as I can afford it).

I really do suffer so bad from phobias, have since the amalgams. Mostly I cope ok, it's just when I'm with other people that it can be a problem. When I'm alone I can do things my way, but it gets hard when I'm around people - like I can't go on the London Underground (and especially since the bombs it's out of the question for me), so if I'm with people who want to go, they have to change for me, which is a pain. And I have phobia of buses (because they get crowded). I handle it, though, and I'm not as bad as I was a child. I have numerous other phobias, especially germs and things like that.

HI Demi, you're welcome. I had no idea you still had amalgams! I would never have suggested you chelate with them still in, it's one of the worst things you could ever do. Andy Cutler says to never chelate until ever bit of amalgam is out.

So that might be why you have problems! Mercury also causes a lot of allergies and intolerances, which is why many react to so many things and can't take supplements or eat certain foods and so it goes on.

NOt to mention the phobias and any ritualistic behaviours, which is CLASSIC mercury. Candida can also do this, so they can both cause it at the sametime and make matters even worse.

This is why a candida diet is at least something any of us can do. Excluding all the foods that ecnourage toxicity can help lighten the load and in some cases dramatically.

I hope at some point you can get your amalgams removed by a reputable, safe biologic dentist. I hear that there is a place that helps finance amalgam removals......the name is Jigsaw (something a rather). i can find out if you like and pass it on.

If you are interested. I hope in the meantime that you can get some kind of relief by diet or something. It's so very hard. Definitely stay away from chelating. The safest thing you could possibly do in that area might be to use some homeopathic detox, which may only help flush things out of your body, rather than pull more mercury off the amalgams.

If you are a good excretor, you may find amalgam removal alone begins to take care of a lot of your issues.

take care.

I think what frightens me most about DMSA and chelation in general is that there are very different opinions by even experts.

It does seem to be quite a babel of advice on mercury detox. Some may be from ignorance of those passing the advice. But I think the main reason is that there are several different genetic types of people and they respond very differently to the same protocol. For example, just the ApoE gene polymorphism yields 6 different types of mercury detox biochemistry (ApoE4+4, 4+3, 4+2, 3+3, 3+2, 2+2), depening on what two types you got from your parents. There are probably dozens or more relevant but as yet unknown genes, hence hundreds of subtypes. Therefore no detox protocol will work the same for everyone.

The best is to trust the signalling mechanisms of your own biochemistry, which means to try cautiously variety of approaches and stick with what 'feels' right for you. Your own cellular biochemical networks are by far the best doctor for you. Whatever gets the message down to them which activates their healing power is what is the best for you.

Unfortunately, I can't see this as being so much about the natural healing side of things, as much as its about how to chelate/ move mercury in a manner that will lessen adverse reactions due to minimising the mobilisation of it (which is the reason for many adverse/severe reactions). It may not eradicate side effects, which is impossible, but the key is to reduce the erratic movement of mercury.

No matter what genetic type a person is, the manner mercury is moved could harm anybody if they are under more challenge than someone else. I know everybody is different, but mercury is mercury and I like most on here have not studied it extensively for years on end, or how it works in the body to undersatnd how it should be handled and moved (unlike Andy Cutler who has. I have had the genetic test done which was a total joke. I retain mercury, I do not excrete it, yet I the genetic type I had showed I should be an excretor. My hair test showed the opposite (more accurate).

The advice I have passed on has only been from a qualified bio chemist working extenisvely in this area, with years of experience, not only curing himself, but others also. Two forums are devoted to this protocol alone, his book is avaiable on this website run by russ Tanner.

The book by teh way is called Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment, by Andrew Hall Cutler. He has gone through teh science of the body, mercury and what can happen if it is not treated correctly.

I am no professional, but am passing on the advice from a professional. anybody can check that out if they wish.

Here is a link that lists many links for people to go and read and if theywish to contact the man himself, they can do so -
http://curezone.com/faq/q.asp?a=3,76&q=102

I agree that people should try anything slowly and cautiously, but again how much of this has to do with individual biochemistry and genes, as opposed to mercury itself and how it should be handled, and treated and moved in order to create less damage from bouncing it around..... People can of course experiement, we all have done that, which is why many are now on those forums attempting to undo the damage done by other random protocols. An example is me taking a very small amount of garlic supplement, as I was told this moved mercury. I took 7 months to recover from a supplement, due to it bouncing thte toxins into my gut and I believe nervous system/brain. Obviously it did go into my brain, because I was dumb enough to do it a second time (I just couldn't believe it could have been the garlic supplement).

now that was me trying something slowly and cautiously...Others may do fine on this, but again unless we hear of a protocol that has more favourable reports and less adverse ones, we are possibly still working too much in the dark trying to find the magic bullet....we know there isn't one, but locating one that maybe the closest thing is a start....