Hi, no matter what I do, where I go, who I ask, I cannot seem to get help from dentists. Everything contiues to go wrong. I can go to great lengths trying to get help, but it falls flat everytime, even after a lot of money has been spent and I have gone in circles non stop.

Recently, because of problems with dentists in my own country (not many are biologic and those that are either can't help me or think I'm too ill). So I try emailing overseas dentists and at first they seem interested, but they begin trying to get me on their expensive health regimes, and I simply cannot go through this again and again as I have been. I asked one dentists THREE or four times could you please tell me what dental materials you use in your office. He constantly side stepped this and said "I test patients for biocompatibility in my office before placement", ONce again I repeat "yes, that's great, but I'd appreciate knowing what materials you have in your office so I can look them up on my serum test form". He replies "If a patient doesn't react well with the ones I have in my office, I can send away for any they are compatible with". THe THIRD time I ask him "Yes, but it would help me from this distance to know the ones you already have there, if they don't turn out ok on my form, I will let you know". Then he says "Could you let me know which ones you are compatible with?" and I said "I have a serum test form that tests HUNDREDS of dental materials, I would not be able to list all the ones I'm ok with, could you just let me know which ones you have in your office?". That was the last I heard from him. On top of this, he wanted me on his expensive health regime, which consisted of expensive testing, consultation etc etc. when I mentioned I would not be able to go through all this financially, he was gone.

Another biologic dentist I emailed didn't even reply to my email requesting help with replacement and cavitations.

Another one that seemed helpful at first, especially when he realised I was interested in the cerec porcelain restoratives (costing around 1000 dollars a tooth), seems to have gone cold since I figured out that the cerec porcelain was beyond my financial means and mentioned this to him and asked about the alternative material he uses (composite). He's not quite so helpful now.

A holistic dentist in my own country has been found out that he sometimes does not remove al the toxic dental material, he will leave some in the tooth and simply cover it over. He does not do cavitations, though knows about them and oddly enough he removes wisdom teeth and only cleans out the site afterwards properly if the patient requests it, otherwise he will elave the periodontal ligament behind in full knowledge that the patient could end up with a cavitation. He said "if they ask me, I remove it and clean it out properly". In other words, if the patient doesn't know about cavitations and doesn't ask, he will put them at risk for one.

Another dentist, who would be the top in my country won't work on me because I'm too ill, so insists I go through continual health protocols, which cost me ongoing money, plus he insists on seeing me face to face eachtime, which means 9 hours of driving, more exposure to mercury vapor already in the dental office, only to get more ill and in the end I got nowhere. Yet he refuses to do the dental work on me. I went through all this for one year and a half and he ended up getting money out of me and doing NOTHING.

another dentist I tried to get to help me in my country, recommended by a top doctor, decided that really he would not be good enough to do the job on me, and forwarded my private letter to the dentist I had already been to.

I don't know if I am cursed, or what is going on, but I feel like I am going crazy. I cannot help being ill, and this is why I'm trying to get a holistic/biologic dentist to actually DO something for once, instead of having me jump through continual hoops, only to end up doing no dental work and me being poorer at the end of it and no better off.

Frankly, I'm beginning to develop a deep hatred for them all.

Hi Bex,

I am sorry to hear what you are going through. It is frustrating, I know. Have you considered eating raw organic grass fed meat? The theory is that that will regenerate tooth regrowth and detox you naturally, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hi Alex, no I haven't. I eat meat, but do not eat it raw. In my country we have grass fed meat naturally, but I'm not one to go eat it raw I don't think. Also, I would not be able to wait around in hopes my teeth will heal over, as even if I did do everything right, it can take years. There are no guarantees. I just eat as well as I can, but will need dental treatment as my gums are receding through gum disease and I have jawbone infections. Yet no dentist is being helpful at all and they're supposed to be biologic, the very people who are meant to actually 'care. This is why I have become increasingly cynical as time goes on.

Hi Bex,

I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. I don't know which is more frustrating--hearing about what is happening to you, or feeling powerless to offer any kind of help from halfway around the world. If it makes any difference, I live in a major hub-city for Northwest Airlines (MSP), so if you needed to fly overseas to America, you could stay with our family and we could pick you up at the airport and give you whatever transportation you needed both to and from the dentist once you got here.

I don't know if this is a bright spot for you directly or not, but I had a pretty good experience with my visit to the insurance-based dentist yesterday, which I will post more about in the thread about the cerec crowns. He seems to echo the sentiments of the dentists that you have spoken to about cerec materials, and thinks that this is the most bio-compatible material available on the market today. He was very familiar with Clifford testing, and has spoken with Walter directly on many occasions. He even said that Walter Clifford told him that testing for the cerec's is beginning to drop off recently, simply because there have been so few problems reported by anyone about it, and people apparently feel less and less compelled to test cerec materials before placement nowadays. This dentist has been doing this for years, and has not had anyone report to him any negative reactions from the cerecs, which seems to reinforce what the dentists told you as well.

Bex, we really need to find a way to get you some help, one way or another. I wouldn't be able to wire any money until I get my dental work done, but I could send a little here and there possibly as soon as March of next year. No one should have to suffer like this, there has to be some way around all of this for you.

Jason

Hi Jason, thank you so much for your very kind offer!!! Very much appreciated and it's amazing how wonderful people are on here. It's incredible. I think though that where I am, new zealand is a little too far away and as you know yourself, finance is not exactly so easy to come by.

thank you so much for your offer of wiring some money. I don't think I could accept that, I would feel dreadful. Though I know you're trying to help. I am sure you, like many of us are not exactly in the pink financial wise either. It's a big struggle in everyway.

Well, what you said about Cerec sounds about as promising as it can get. Thank you for sharing that information and I really hope that if/when you get this stuff, it will prove to be the case. It's gotten me more interested again. I'm just bewildered why they feel the need to charge so much for the stuff. That side of it seems a little cruel and greedy. I know it's porcelain, but come on!

I might check out some cerec dentists again in my country and weigh up their costs. I am very interested in what you have passed on. That's quite something.

Best wishes and thanks again!

Bex.

Anytime Bex. I will find out if my insurance will cover this for sure in about a month--for now I have to just wait. I am thinking that I will try having one crown placed, and see how it goes before trying any more. As phxcoop was saying before, it seems like there are a lot of false positives and negatives from testing, so I am still not completely sure what to make of the testing route. Even there, it seems like there are conflicting stories. I would think though that I would have heard of a lot more negative stories if people were rejecting CEREC's left and right, but on the contrary it seems to be getting more and more popular--there must be a reason for this.

As far as cost goes, I am assuming that the high expense comes from the extra equipment that is necessary in the dentist's office to place these--i.e. special cameras, computers, milling equipment, reflective powder, etc. This dentist told me that each CEREC would cost $950.00 apiece. This would be one flat fee regardless of whether I could get them done in one sitting, or whether I would need to take mould impressions and be fitted with temporary crowns, and/or whether I had silver fillings below each crown. Removal of any silver filling (if it exists below my crowns) would also be covered in this cost. I would need to pay $36.00 per visit for supplemental oxygen though, which I will gladly shell out.

If you are trying to save money, maybe it would be best to see how my first placement goes before diving into this. I have to admit, that in spite of this dentist's enthusiasm for the product, that there is still a profit motive involved here, so I still need to take what he says with a grain of salt. However, it seems like the evidence is looking more weighted towards the positive. I guess the proof will be in the pudding for me, once I get one placed. I will be waiting for at least a month before moving forward on any more, assuming that I have no reactions.

Need to run for the day--I will keep you posted on any other information that I find out in the coming days and weeks. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Take care,
Jason

hi again, yes I am trying to be cautious like you. I am phoning around areas in my country all the dentists who use cerec and asking how much an inlay costs and does the overall cost reduce if a person is having many done etc. Most of the time the cost has remained at about 900 or so for ONE inlay (which I think is a little digusting actually). But one dentist so far charges about 600 - 800 an inlay and apparently teh cost is reduced if there are quite a few inlays needed to be done. So I could end up getting cerec afterall. But not sure yet.

But what I don't understand is this. I asked the receptionist, who asked the dentist "What block is your cerec from"? she had NO idea what I was talking about and the dentist said "Zironia" and that was it. On my serum form, I don't have any cerec with zironia attached to it. I have no idea which one it is. This is aggravating.

But thanks for letting me know how things are going with you and WILL go. Best of luck with the cerec crown. You're being very careful which is good. I hope there are no reactions. Do you know what the dentist will be using as a bonding agent to seal it into the tooth? Many of them fail to mention that.

Hi Bex,

My guess is that the dentist you were speaking to was referring to the company that produces the CEREC blocks--the name of the company is 'Sirona'. This appears to be their homepage: http://www.cereconline.com/ecomaXL/index.php?site=CEREC_Dentist_Materials-1

I found a chart of some of the materials that they use here--hopefully this could help your dentist better understand which material that you are requesting him to use: http://www.vita-zahnfabrik.com/eBRA...=C0&wosid=OFa2M5GcBFo3JaRHZXB0EM

Thanks for bringing up the bonding agent. I remember now that my dentist did mention that to me in the consultation, but I forgot to ask what brand he is using. He did say though that they take care to use the most bio-compatible bonding agents possible for this procedure. I'll try to get that specific information from him the next time I see him. Is there a specific kind (or brand) out there that you have heard is best so far?

Thanks,
Jason

Hi Jason, thank you!!! that's what it would be. Sirona. I'm surprised that this dentist had no idea what i was talking about when I asked what block of cerec it was and instead he gives me the name of the company.

I do not know about bonding agents and what would be best. Often the dentist won't say anything about the bonding agent which is odd because that too is going in the mouth and needs to be tested or proven to be biocompatible.

I'm hoenstly tired of them all. I feel like when I phone up that I have to squeeze out any answers at all from them and often they have no idea what I am talking about. it's quite incredible. Even the ones making great claims, once you really get down to it, they are not quite as knowledgeable as you thought and you wonder who to trust.

Thank you for the link, that's a great help. I'll check it out.

Rebecca.

Bex I am not surprised at the unwillingness of the dentists to give out information without the assurance that you will be the next installment in their retirement fund!!! My dentist charged me $1100 for each onlay and I think it was $700 for the compatibility testing and then several hundred more for meridian testing and then $200 more for ultrasound and then after the fillings were done, he wanted to do more tests at my expense to see how much my meridian testing improved. Go figure.

Then after he pulled out my first root canalled tooth, he wanted to send the tooth away for testing to see what was growing in the root at my expense too, and I said no thanks. Since then I had to get the site reopened cause it got infected and then you should have seen my jawbone, took antibiotics and now I am left with an anaerobic infection which probably came from the gum site...he is no surgeon, now I know why he tried to talk me into getting the root canals redone...not only for the $$$, but cause he probably never did a cavitation before and wouldn't admit it, cause he didn't want to lose the $$$$.

So now I am suffering with bv and a cold, my body is just plain run down and tired of dealing with all this crap. The antibiotic that I am using now for the bv is the only one they have capable of dealing with these superbugs...so I am pretty concerned. I have since found another dentist several hours away that is more experienced in doing cavitations so will see him when I save up some money to afford the trip...and an well enough to withstand 8 more removals We are also in the process of downsizing and moving..and that is another stress...but it will save us money.

Here is a site that may be able to help you with financial assistance, even though you are in NZ, they may want to help you when they find out what you have been thru.

http://www.jigsawhealth.org/Apply_Now/

Sorry for the ramble, I just want you to know that you are not suffering alone, not that it is much consolation and I continue to pray for you Bex, I hope you can see the light soon.\\

Best luck with the site and I hope you feel better soon.

Sandi
xoxo

Hi Sandi, oh gosh, to hear what you said it just blows me away all this. I am astounded that people on here continue to keep going, being ill and often getting fleeced by the medical profession at the sametime.

It is veryhard to try and think any good thoughts about any of these people (dentists). I am trying hard daily to locate one that can help me, but there seems to be continual problems.

Thanks so much for getting on here and being so helpful to me and others, all the while being hit yourself from one or another, battling all the time. I'm disgusted with what you've been through, and myself and others too.

I hope and pray for us that sometime, somewhere, answers will come and they won't just happen in dribbles, they'll come in a huge wave and all this will be wiped away. I guess I'm dreaming : /

Hang in there Bex, I think that answers are coming, but I don't really know in what timeframe. I just attended a question-and-answer session with the biologic dentist yesterday. I am totally convinced now that there are a few good dentists out there. On a side note--I also spoke with another prospective patient there whose name is Trace--he was very interested in our forum here, and asked me to send him the link--so we may have a new member joining us soon.

I was very impressed with this biologic dentist--there were actually two of them working together, and they held this Q&A session for 2.5 hours yesterday on their own time after business hours, and at no charge. We spent about 60% of the time simply discussing their questionnaire form, which is given to each patient before beginning any treatment. We spent the other 40% of the time in a totally open forum for any questions whatsoever that we had. I especially like the preface before the questionnaire, which has the following paragraph:

"Freedom of choice is an ideal we cherish in this country. A meaningful choice requires individual knowledge and access to information. If you are properly informed, you are aware of alternatives available and the consequences of your options. The United States Constitution provides for the right to meaningful discussion of any issue in a public forum. The following questions may lead to discussion of certain controversial issues but DO NOT in any way imply a recommendation for any type of treatment protocol, referral for any type of testing or evaluation by any health care practitioner, use of any particular filling or crown materials, or the connection between any medical condition and the dental condition of your mouth. Since you do have a right to choose, the following is intended to be a way for you, the patient, to communicate your choices and therefore the kind of dental care you wish to receive.'

The questionnaire form then lists 10 questions ranging from testing, removing fillings in a certain order, scheduling appointments on certain dates, supplemental oxygen, chelation and supplementation, dental laser use, etc. There was absolutely no pressure to act on these questions one way or another, and there wasn't even any pressure to sign up for treatment, although the offer was simply cordially made for anyone that was interested.

One question I had for the dentists during the discussion was what made the CEREC's different from the old-style porcelain crowns. Much like I had suspected, they said that the old-style porcelain crowns were made with materials that were pressed onto a metal base. This metal base often leaked into the patient's mouth, which I suspect is what caused many of the issues with dementia/Alzheimers that have been discussed on the forum before. The CEREC's on the other hand, are milled from a single block of much more bio-compatible material such as zirconium oxide (rather than a material being forcibly pressed onto a dissimilar base), and therefore this makes the CEREC's much less prone to leeching and leakage problems. I also asked them about the Diamondcrowns. They used to place these, but interestingly do not tend to use these anymore. It didn't appear to be an issue of biocompatibility, it was more of an issue that they were relatively soft compared to other replacement materials, and in their experience often needed replacement after 5-10 years. They like the CEREC's because not only are they showing to be bio-compatible, but they tend to last for at least 15-20 years or more.

I have to get back to my work now, but just wanted to quickly share this information, as I thought it was all pretty interesting.

Jason

No you are not dreaming Bex, we are going to get well, and that is a fact. It may not come in a huge wave but we are going to get there.

Jason, you are a dearheart too, thanks for all the info and support you have provided to help Bex and others too.

Sandi
xoxo

Thanks Sandi, I feel the same way about you and many others out here too. You have all been very helpful, and got me pointed in the right direction to start my research. I think that's what this forum is all about--we all help each other as best as we can, and share whatever experiences that we can in hopes of us all receiving a benefit from them in the end. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hello all,

I figured I would post some information in this thead. So I do agree that most dentist are only in it for the money. Even the best of them seem to be very money driven. I have not been impressed with anyone I have seen. This latest dentist wants me to try gold.

Anyway, You guys might want to consider trying this to help with detox with an overloaded system.

For an anti-biotic try Colloidal Silver Hydrosol from Natural-Immunogenics Corp. www.sovereignsilver.info

I been taking it since this whole dental thing started as I kept getting sinus infections. It works extreemly well and great for the mouth and any infections. Not really any side effects but read up on it.

For detox I would strongly suggest doing a castor oil pack. Again please do a google search on this. This helps the body naturally get rid of toxins.

And for a big time detox I would suggest a coffee enama. This allows for the liver to aid in release of bile which in turn allows the liver to work much more fuctionally.

Now for intresting information. As some of you already know, I have only temp plastic crowns in my mouth. The reactions I have I do handle with Vit - C, silver, caster oil packs and coffee. I started with a mostly raw diet this past week. I have not eaten raw meat yet but have been eating it rather rear. So we will see what happends with that. But I did start to take Trace Minerals. This seems to cause a lot of intresting feeling in my mouth, mostly the teeth under the 2 crowns. After a few days of taking that, my 2 teeth moved up about 1mm. You can tell something like that in your mouth rather fast when you go to bite down and the teeth are higher. There is also a larger gap between the crowns and the gum line. The crowns themselves are still firm on the teeth so I know they did not move. But I found that intresting. I had to stop taking this version because it was causing my blood pressure to go up kind of high. I am researching a better version of this trace minerals. But I am rather supprised that happend. I could feel it moving up and tingle. It was really very intresting.

I thought I would share this information.

My mum had a tooth removed recently, it was really painful but she still got pain when it was out, the dentist gave her antibiotics twice but still she felt pain and swelling in the jaw.
I bought her some collidal silver and the pain has gone, it must be powerful.

Hi Jason, thanks again for all the information you continue to provide and help. I am hunting down a cerec dentist here, attempting to find one that does not charge too much for the, plus reduces the cost if he's doing many at once. I have found "one", and the cost is lower than any of the others, but I am still going to contact others in case I can get an even better deal. Doesn't mean I'm going for it though, but it's good to "shop around".

I am keen on cerec, but I still get jittery about the metals, even if they are in the oxide form, because it does seem porcelain has much more in them, but again they seem more stable so..... and perhaps they do not have all the other things composites do. Hard to tell.

I asked a holistic doctor on a website for dental issues,questions etc and asked him about both dental materials heliomolar and cerec and he informed me that both of them were "ok". So I don't know, hearing so many things it's hard to know what to believe.

But the fact that Cerec lasts for so long also, and the fact as far as I know it is very hard for any plaque to form around it and it can rebuild teeth in a sense also (this I need, because two of my teeth are very suspect).

Jason, do yourself a favour, request a local anaesthetic WITHOUT a vaso-constrictor. Vaso-constrictors in local anaesthetic are designed to reduce/prevent blood flow to the area, which makes the numbing last longer etc etc.

They are finding out slowly but surely (well some dentists), that this can be a prime cause of cavitations in the jawbone, plus can risk tooth death, simply because the blood flow is removed for an extended period of time. I wonder if this is what happened to me, because a doctor detected gangrene in my mouth, dead pulp as he called it. Could have been wisdom tooth removal though, but could have been the anaesthetic bringing the cavitation on, or a deadening of the area itself, allowing a kind of rotting to stay there.

So my advice to you is, request the non vaso-constrictor local anaesthetic. THey can also cause heart palpitations as well. I remember I had one done and the oral surgeon could not get me numb (interesting considering it's supposed to numb more effectively than other local anaesthetics) and he injected me over an dover again and I was close to passing out. I had to sit up, my heart was pounding and racing and I was terrified, he was too. My pupils were apparetnly dilated. It was like having masses amounts of adrenaline pumping through. He still could not get me numb properly and I was in some pain.

So, so much for it's effectiveness. Who knows what that may have done to me and my gums.

and don't take any vitamin C on the day, or in fact the day before you get dental work done. You may know this already, but in case you don't, it can eraze the effects of the anesthetic and you will be in pain. Better not to take vitamin C for a few days beforehand to be even safer. Fine to resume immediately afterwards of course.

Keep us posted Jason. when are you going through with the dental job by the way? I'll be very interested to hear how it goes.

Could someone share some more info on the raw meat diet,please enlighten me so i don't think you're losing it lol.

LOL

I have not lost it yet.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Here is a good link to get started...

http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/

Bex,

What tests have you had for mercury poisoning? What were the results? Blood, hair, Urine with challenge etc.,

Hi Bex, thanks for all that info. I have been pondering the local anesthetic question for a while, and wondering where to go with that. I think I'll have to do some research to see what is out there--thanks for the heads-up. I am actually considering not using any at all, as I went without any the last two times that I had fillings put in. I was gripping the chair to be sure, but not out of pain so much as simply the anticipation of pain. It felt like a very mild electric current, but nothing more. I just don't like those kinds of local anesthetics to begin with, and will do anything to get around using them if at all possible.

As far as timing for getting my crowns replaced, it will be at least the middle of November to early December before I can get the first one done. I need to wait for approval of my dentist's estimate to my insurance company before I can start. Once that is done, I plan on getting one CEREC placed, and then will wait at least another month to see if I have any acute reactions before getting the other two done. I will keep you posted on whatever happens from here. For now, I will probably focus on getting my immune system built up before any work gets done. Thanks again for all of the information Bex, you have been such an invaluable resource on this forum.

Phxcoop, please keep us updated on what you continue to find out with the tooth re-growth research. This is fascinating news, and I hope that this will be a promising way for us on this forum to someday deal with our existing tooth issues without having to place foreign materials in our mouths. What you were experiencing with your temporary crowns was one of my only concerns with this--namely what do we do during the transition period between having defective teeth, and re-growing them back to relative health? Have you ran across any testimonies of what people have tried successfully so far during this transition phase? If so, can you forward some links to us? Thanks for sharing this info, this is good stuff! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,
Jason

Jason,

I will let you know if I find out more information or if anything I do leads to anything positive in anyway.

But I do ask you please please please get yourself a sample of both the crown material and bonding material. Make sure they are seperate and do a cheek to gum test for about 2-3 weeks before even considering using CEREC. I have a sample of CEREC though aluminium based and I reacted to it after about 4 hours in my mouth.

Hi Jason, thank you, you all are a great source of information too. It's helped me. I cannot imagine not having a local anaesthetic!!!! You're very brave, I am a whimp. I remember once a dentist decided to use less because he was a dentist who did not like using anaesthetic. I was in great discomfort for the entire time and never went back to him.

So it's a pity because I know they are toxic, but the pain was almost intolerable.

Definitely keep us posted when you get cerec, but as phxcoop suggested, it might be wise to get a sample of it and the bonding material and do the test first....

phxcoop I am surprised you reacted to this stuff after onlly 4 hours? can you let us know what symptoms you developed? I had no idea it had gone wrong for you, I considered that as you had not said anything, it must have been "ok", so I am surprised and disappointed to hear it didn't.

I'd appreciate hearing what response you got.

thanks

Since my reactions will be different than other people's, please do not go by my reactions. But after 4 hours, I noticed I was getting a headache, slight swelling in my mouth and touge and a sence of something not right. I tool it out, all reactions went away. I waited till the next day and tried again and same thing happend again. I did however like the feel of the material as it was hard and smooth.

So that is why it is very important that you do a cheek and gum test. Because once they put it in your mouth, it is hell and I mean hell getting it out along with having the reactions.

Something else to remember is that there is a chance that once you do get a reaction to something that it builds on itself to the point where you are not able to fuction normally. With my 1st situation of the aries and zirconium crowns, the reaction kept getting worse and worse each day and drugs where not stopping it. I know I am more sensitive than most out there so I can feel things right away usually. But if you notice any sort of reactions, just keep in mind that it can get a lot worse over time. Time is the question as it may take years or a matter of hours. But you have to be very aware of how you feel before you test materials in your mouth.

Post deleted by Terms of Use

Thanks for the info on the gum-and-cheek testing phxcoop. How is that done? Do you generally just put a sample in your mouth and then sort of suck on it and leave it in for a few hours? I haven't heard of this kind of testing before, but it sounds like it would be very logical. I agree with Bex, I'm a little disappointed to hear that the CEREC material did not work for you, as this is the first time that I have heard of this. But it sounds like it would be way too coincidental to have the reactions that you did after two tries with it, so that HAD to be some kind of reaction I suspect.

After reading through almost every post on this forum, I am under the impression that I am going into this crown replacement and amalgam removal quite a bit healthier than some of the others. I am not at a stage of toxicity (yet) where I have allergic reactions to much of anything--although I think that I am having reactions to the 'gold' crowns that are in my mouth now. This concerns me a little bit, because I am worried that if I get the CEREC's and things actually end up going well for me personally, it could possibly give a false sense of hope to someone like Bex that may not tolerate these materials as well, due to her (now) compromised immune system. I also don't know if the zirconium-oxide is more bio-compatible than the aluminum-oxide materials. I know it is supposed to be harder than the aluminum oxide, and withstands the stresses placed on molars much better than the aluminum oxide materials.

This issue of bio-compatible dental materials has to be the most frustrating aspect of recovery that I have seen so far. It's almost made me throw up my hands in despair at times--I really don't know what to do at this point. I thought that I had done my homework with the CEREC's and finally found something that would be somewhat problem-free for me. Now I don't know what to think. I'm nervous about throwing $300.00 away on blood serum testing if it's only going to be 60% accurate. I can flip a quarter for only 10% less accuracy, and it will be for free. I guess in some ways the decision is made for me though, because I don't know of any dentists in my area yet that place Diamondcrown, so I may not have any other realistic options than CEREC for now. I will take your advice phxcoop, and ask for the gum-and-cheek materials testing at least.

Thanks,
Jason

I have tested about 10 different materials now with the cheek and gum test. So far I reacted to all of them. I would get sinus problems or headaches or swelling of face or body parts. One made my rest hurt a great deal and once the material was out of my mouth, the pain went away. So I reacted to each material differently.





I did have the clifford lab test done. I show up negative. I would have to say there are a great deal of false negatives on that test as it really does not show as a reaction with the material in your mouth with saliva present. So it is not a very good test. And what I am finding out is that if you never been reactive to it you can become reactive to it once you are exposed to it as we do not go around eatting toxic material or at least I don't think we do.



All you do it have them make up a small sample of the material. Big enough to put on the side of your mouth. You suck on it like a hard candle or just let it rest on the side of your mouth. This way it interacts with the saliva, gum line and cheek. You can also touch it with your tounge. This is the only real test to make sure you do not react to it. Blood work and muscle testing are just general guides and that is all they are. I would keep it in as long as I can. You take it out when you eat and sleep.

Thanks for that info phxcoop. I will call the dentist and get these samples--I know the biologic dentist that I will be seeing already has a kit made up for $40.00 with all materials that they use.

I also found a post from Scarlet a while back that had information on saliva testing, which I am thinking makes the most sense, especially after what you said phxcoop. I think I will be calling these people as well. Here is part of what Scarlet posted:

"If your interested in knowing what you are allergic to, the name is THE CREATIVE HEALTH CENTRE, 1-250-756-1984. You can send a saliva sample and they will test it with their Gas chromatigraph machine for only $90. This machine can also detect almost everything thats wrong with you including cancer. This is a great deal!!! They serve 6 different countries world wide and have been highly recommended!!!

from SCARLET,"

A little disappointing news today. I just got back from the dentist's office after picking up my materials samples. Glad that phxcoop and Bex had me check more into this. The name of the composite that this dentist was going to use is called 'Esthet-X'. I did some research on this and found that it is very high in Bis-GMA http://jdr.iadrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/83/3/222#T2

I also received a couple of CEREC samples--one is Vita-Mark II, and the other is Pro-CAD. Will have to research those as well, to make sure that they are both zirconium-based CEREC's, as I had requested and assumed. If this dentist does not have other kinds of fillers/adhesives available for my crowns, then it looks like my only option will be to have all of my work done at the biologic dentist's office (which I found out during my informational meeting is covered by my insurance at 50%). I know during the informational meeting that the biologic dentist said that they avoid all composites with BisGMA's in them.

Jason

HI Jason, all of this makes me want to scream. I emailed a dentist (biologic) and asked him about cerec porcelain and he said to me "i never used porcelain in my surgery, they all contain aluminium".

plus the composites I wanted to have in heliomolar, contain fluoride and BisGMA in them, yet a lady told me that ALL plastics are estrogenic anyway. So I don't know what to do or what to believe.

If I find a dentist that I think is more reasonable in price with cerec, I may ask for a sample and do the tooth and gum test. But it's the bond underneath that might also be an issue.

The ones I've been in touch with all seem to use Vita Mark II, so not sure what that contains....

And as per usual the cost is outrageous. not sure how any of them can justify charging that to any patient.

anyway, thanks for keeping us posted on all this. It's so upsetting and frustrating!!!!

I know what you mean Bex, it makes me want to scream too. This whole ordeal is teaching me a new level of patience, that's for sure. Some days are better than others for me--on occasion there are days where I think that I am going to lose it, and I get really depressed thinking about the amount of research and the outlay of money still ahead of me. Other days are better, and for some reason today I am still relatively OK, even in spite of this news. I suppose maybe on our good days we just try to keep encouraging the ones on the forum who are having frustrating days, and on our bad days we have to lean on those who are having their good days for our support.

I did get one piece of good news today. I got the list of materials that the biologic dentist offers, and found that she offers Diamondlite for fillings, which I am definitely going to use if the saliva test goes well.

I'll also keep you posted on how my cheek-and-gum materials testing goes with the CEREC.

Jason

Hi Jason, I know I'm having very bad days too over all this, plus how I feel in general being ill. Don't need this on top of it all. I'm also finding that many dentists are rather odd or vague and it's rare to find one that actually answers your questions properly. Whether some are affected by the mercury vapor in their office or not is possible.

I am at the moment searching down a cerec dentist in my own country and trying to get one that is the lowest cost, but one that is actually caring and professional as well and answers questions clearly. The ones that tend to go funny or don't like answering things you ask, I tend to steer clear of them.

one top dentist in Australia, that advertises himself no end, was one of the worst dentists I have emailed. he culd not even answer most of my questions and continued to side step them, or simply not answer them at all. Finally he wouldn't reply to me at all. It's almost amusing, but actually rather concerning when you consider they set themselves up as top quality dentists, when you wonder what they are actually up to if they cannot even answer some very simple basic clear questions.....

anyway, i too am hoping to get a sample of cerec and the bonding material and do the cheek and gum test. It's interesting to have someone else on a similar path at the moment, so I am hoping it will go well for us and anybody else here who is on the same frustrating road.

Did a little further research tonight, after this think I am going to log off and just chill out a bit. Seems as though the two pieces that I have been given are made of the following materials:

Feldspathic porcelain (Vita Mark II) http://www.vita-zahnfabrik.com/eBRA...=C0&wosid=g2yUSrOc6tFmEVRzskGscM

Leucite-reinforced glass ceramic, mixed with Aluminum Oxide (Pro CAD) http://www.getprocad.com/dentist-bl-sci.html and also http://www.getprocad.com/blocks.pdf

What I REALLY wanted was the Vita In-Ceram YZ materials, which are made with presintered Zirconium Oxide. http://www.vita-zahnfabrik.com/resourcesvita/shop/de/de_3052150.pdf

Why does this seem to be so hard to get? I guess I just have to laugh at all of this. And the search goes on... I just thank God that I started an IT job a couple of months ago that is so slow that it allows me about 20-30 hours per week to do some heavy research on the Internet while I am at my job. They don't mind either, as it is my job to simply watch the phones and take phone calls. As long as I am doing my job, they really don't care how I spend my time. I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to sift through all of this information without loads of time to do it. I almost feel sorry for some of these dentists, because I don't know how they would be able to make a living and still have time to research all of these things on their own. I often wonder how many of them are simply doing what many of us did years ago, and take someone else's word for what is in the materials that they place into other people's mouths? Not that this would be any excuse, but at least maybe I can understand it a little bit... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Jason

Yesterday I went to the biological dentist to get a sample of a zirconium based. The dentist refused to tell me who makes it or anything about it other than it is zirconium based. I thought that was a little odd. Well I did try it for a few yesterday and I do not think I am going to do well with it as it seems to make me just ill. Maybe it is the taste or I can taste the chemicals in it. I am just not sure but I am not up for putting it in my mouth today. I might try again tomorrow sometime. But I thought I would let you guys know.

i have Esthetic-x in my 2 fillings and it was done by a holistic dentist.
I really thought it was safe so when i found out it wasnt, i rang them up and they said they have had no problems with it and its safe.
Actually in the very beginning of ttreatment i opted to get all my mercury filled teeth pulled out to be on the safe side. In the end i ended up with 2 left which they filled, most of them were root canals anyway and they had to come out.
I had cavitation surgery instead of getting my teeth redone with safer materials because i thought it was more important, now il have to save up again for the 2 fillings, im opting for diamondlite.

Just got off the phone with the dentist a few minutes ago, and now I'm feeling a bit stupid. The zirconium oxide material that I wanted to have only comes as a base post material on the CEREC's. If I were to use this, I would need to make two trips to the dentist, as they would have to send the crown away to another location to have it milled. I remember this part of the conversation now from my first visit with the dentist, but sometimes it's hard for me to remember every detail that is being thrown at me when I am asking so many questions at once.

So I guess that I am going to give the feldspathic porcelain a try (Vita Mark II) with the gum-and-cheek test. If that goes well, I think that I will try the saliva test next that Scarlet had mentioned in another post, and see if there are any reactions noted with the test.

I agree with you Dawn, I'm definitely going for the Diamondlite for my fillings too.

Jason

Hi Jason, the entire thing is frustrating. I'm getting the Vita mark II samples as well, it seems that's all they use here. but according to Walter Clifford, the aluminium oxide contained in them is a non issue. He seems to think it's such a non issue, that even in someone with an aluminium intolerance on the blood serum test is still safe, unless they have a silicate sensitivity/intolerance, then he said there can be problems. On my form, it shows i'm ok with silicate, so I don't know what to believe.

I'm scared of having my teeth redone also because of the trauma to the tooth during this process and how it can be a risk for further tooth damage and tooth death. I have two particular death that have had things redone to them more than once and both are very deep big cavities and I fear this might finish them off, yet the stuff in them is apparently pretty toxic. But I don't know what to believe anymore. Because I don't know what is truly causing all mysymptoms. For all I know, it could still all be mercury, so it's hard to tell.

anyway, if I get it, I'll be getting it in every tooth, so I am rather nervous about the whole thing.

I sure wish I had the answers for you Bex, or any answers for that matter. It seems that the further that I dig, the more questions that I come up with. I think that for me though, that any materials have to be better than what I have now--especially with the gold and amalgam being right next to each other on a total of four teeth. I'll be continuing to pray for your health Bex, and that this all goes well for you and that your nightmare will soon be over concerning all of this health stuff.

I have to go back to my original premise that these CEREC's can't be THAT bad. I can understand that there will be some like phxcoop and others that will have reactions to these materials, but then again, there will always be people that will react to something or other, as there are a few on this forum that have even had problems with the Diamondcrowns. So it looks like there isn't going to be any perfect materials that work for everyone, but I guess we sometimes simply need to find the best material that we can for ourselves, that is available within our area and/or our financial means. I think that if I had my first choice, I probably would have gone for the Diamondcrown, but since it isn't available in my area, I am going for what seems to be the next best thing for me, which are probably the CEREC's. I just read that over 4,000,000 have been placed so far, so you would think that you would hear something on the Internet if there were big problems with this stuff with a lot of people.

Jason

hi Jason, yep you're on the same road as I'm on. Frustrating and distressing. Thanks for your support and kindness by the way and prayers too. The more I search, the more questions there are too.

I got quite annoyed recenty when I emailed a doctor/dentist who is supposed to be well up on dental materials and all aspects of dentistry. And he's on a holistic dental page and people can ask him questions.

Well, I asked him what cerec and heliomolar were like as replacements and if they were ok with toxic/sensitive people. His reply was "Both are ok". So that was that.

Well, later I emailed him again to ask about some bonding agents and I repeated the cerec and heliomolar as well and this time he said "I have reservations about the heliomolar" and then he told me to go ask some other people on there.

I mean really you have to wonder if any of them really know what they are talking about. One minute he says it's ok, next minute he's saying it isn't.

I am still interested in cerec, but my concern is this. I have periodontal gum disease (which apparnetly as common) and imagine if I end up spending thousands to get cerec put in and my gum disease worsens and is unable to be controlled and I end up losing my teeth ..... Because unless I do everthing perfectly, I have a chance at some point of "possibly" losing my teeth if the disease progresses (it's also genetic in my case, family members lost their teeth from gum disease too).

So I'm honestly at a loss as to what to do. I'm so tired of the mass contradictions and just when you think you're onto something and you start relaxing, something else pops up.

So really, I have no idea now what I'm going to do. I'm also concerned about further tooth drilling, as the trauma from this can end up deadening teeth if it's done too often. I have had some materials removed more than once already in the past.

And in your case? The gold and amalgam? Trust me, literally ANYTHING would be better than that. That's probably one of the worst case senarios, so I'm sure whatever you get would be an improvement. Though of course, even then, you want to make sure you get the least offensive material for you personally.

Yes, considering so many cerecs are replaced all the time, if they were not good, I'm certain there would be very available bad press about them, considering they are so popular and so used and the internet is vast. But I do wonder if they are hyped much more than what they really are.

Thanks again for your prayers Jason, you deserve to get well, you've been a great help to me and others on here.

Take care and keep us posted.

Hi Bex,

I'm sorry that you are going through so much frustration on your road to healing. I wish that there was more I could do to directly help. I think that I will call Dr. Schulze's store this weekend and see if they will ship to NZ. Once I come out on the other side of all this dental work, I would really like to ship you some of his Tooth and Gum formula. I and others that I know have had such good luck with his herbal formulas--and I would just like to see if this particular one would work for you too. I haven't tried this one specifically, but every other product of his that I tried worked better than any other herbal remedy I have bought anywhere else, hands down. This way you could give it a shot, and if it didn't work for you, at least you wouldn't have to feel like you wasted your money trying yet another gimmick that didn't deliver the promised results. It might at least soften the blow from getting your hopes up if it ends up being something that does not work as well as you expected it to. However, he has several testimonies of the dramatic results of this formula saving many people's teeth. If these testimonies are true, and they are in alignment with my personal experiences with some of his other formulas, you may even see profound results after 2-3 months.

I just tried the sample of the Vita Mark II yesterday for several hours. So far so good--no reactions as of yet. I'll attempt to leave it in all day for the next three weeks or so to see how it goes. I agree with phxcoop when he said that he liked how smooth this material is. If this cheek-and-gum test goes well for the next three weeks, I will then get the saliva testing done that Scarlet recommended--hopefully that will mirror my results that I have had so far. That's all the info I have for now...

Jason

Hi Jason, thanks a lot for the offer. I have tried one gum formula and it seemed "OK', but my gums are sadly receding anyway and I think that I probably need some kind of professional intervention, but hey, i'd be very open to trying something else and that's again vey kind of you to make such an offer and it does indeed sound very reputable considering the others herbal stuff that worked well.

Right now, I'm still torn between what dental materials to use. I got in touch with a very good dentist in USA and asked him about Heliomolar, cerec etc and he's one of the top biological dentists and his entire care is based on biocompatible materials. He was recommended to me by another dentist on a website who answers questions about this kind of thing, but felt this dentist "Dr Gilbert" woudl know even more.

Dr Gilbert told me that all the dental materials I mentioned were good materials! He said just make sure they're ok on the clifford reactivity test.

So, this comes from one of the top and he sent me a very long email and knew I was not even coming to see him to do any work, so there was nothing in it for him.

So it does provide some relief a little. I'm starting to get tired asking questions to dentists on these materials, but I really want to get as much of an informed opinion as I can and not from someone that is gong to tell me they're good because he/she knows that I'll pay them big bucks to put them in.

I still think some of my problem is jawbone cavitations as well, but I'm unable to really get any dentist to be clear on this with me and none seem willing to really do the job, they keep side stepping it and the contradictions on it are ridiculous.

I think anytime a patient suspects this, they should open up every wisdom tooth site snad clean it out regardless and many cavitations are not visible, so it should be a routine thing when they know a patient has symptoms that are not abating.

anyway, that's my view! HOpe you're going ok Jason, I'm glad the tooth and gum test with the cerec went ok "so far".

let us know how it's going.

Bex.

Hi Bex,

Good to hear that you are continuing to make progress with the information hunt. Hope that things will continue to go well in this area, and that you will end up getting the answers that you need. As far as the CEREC for me, it has been so far so good. I put it in for several hours each day this weekend, and noticed no effects at all. So at this point, I'll probably just give an update on it after 3 weeks. I need to try and get the saliva testing done as soon as possible as well, but just need to wait a few weeks for more funds for that. I got my insurance quote back on Friday, and got the green light on 50% coverage for all three crowns, and my two fillings as well, so that is one more load off my mind...

I forgot to call Dr. Schulze's store this weekend, but I figure that I can get his stuff to you one way or another when the time comes--as I could have Dr. Schulze ship it to me, and then I will just ship it out FedEx if need be.

Hang in there Bex, and let me know how things continue to progress for you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Jason

Hi Jason, I'm very glad to hear about the CEREC. It does help me feel it might be ok for me too, but I'm hoping to get a sample and try it out for myself beforehand, plus hopefully the bonding material too.

I'm tired of it all right now. I stupidly smoked an entire packet of cigarettes the other day, and am suffering severely for it. I don't normally smoke, but I have the odd time where I go for it and do a blow out on it, but it seems I cannot really get away with doing these things AT ALL. My own fault. So far I'm not improving from this, so am angry at myself for being so stupid.

anyway, it's done. Look, I am very appreciative of you wanting to send that teeth and gum stuff. I do not want you to put pressure on yourself about it at all and it's a kind offer indeed. There is actually something I read on a dental website that has a natural way of doing this and I wonder what you think about it? Here is the link and check it out and tell me what you think? http://www.saveyourteeth.com/

If that could work, this could save us all a lot of money (those who need to get these online gum treatments). Problem is, I had NO idea where to get that rubber gadget thingy that he says to use.

but anyway, I just thought the rest was very interesting.

again, thank you for your offer, very kind. I just don't know if one can reverse receding gums though, but I certainly want to stop things in their tracks from getting even worse. I have not had a proper dental hygeine clean from a professional dentist in over ten years. I think this is why I now have gum disease. I didn't go because I get sick eachtime I enter a dental office and felt it wasn't a big deal to miss out on the check up and clean (little did I know). That may have saved me from this! So advice to everyone, make sure you have regular check ups, scales and cleans because you can have plaque build up under your gum silently and have no idea it's even occuring, as often there is not always bleeding to go with it. It can be an invisible silent occurance over time. A biologic dentist saw me and told me I had periodontal gum disease, I was shocked. I didn't realise I even had it, there were no real obvious signs, but this is the danger. This is why people often catch it too late and lose their teeth.

This is why I now have my gums receding back from my teeth. It is an awful thing and I think once you get it, you battle it from then on.

anyway, I'll stop going on and sign off now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Bex,

Yes, I read about 'The Secret' a little while ago and think that this would work very well. I want to start this regimen as soon as possible, but I need to avoid the hydrogen peroxide and colloidal silver until I get the gold and amalgam out. The aloe vera might work well as a replacement liquid, but I think that the best thing for me right now would be to get the funds ready to go for the crown replacements and amalgam removals, so I can get these out ASAP and stop poisoning myself with these huge amounts of mercury.

One thing that I noticed missing from this regimen that I would like to see is the use of cayenne pepper. I think that cayenne would work well for many people that have cavitation issues, because it works so well in stimulating blood flow and healing to connecting tissues. This is one thing that Dr. Schulze swears by in many of his formulas, and in my experience I agree with him--it's worked for me too.

Don't feel bad about the cigarette smoking Bex--we all have our moments of weakness. I have gone back to drinking hot coffee in the mornings again for the past week, and need to get off it again. To me it seems like the important thing is that when we fall down we just pick ourselves up again and dust ourselves off, and keep trodding on in the right direction in the long run. If we can do that, it minimizes our temporary weaknesses and failures as human beings. These failures need to be factored into our healing process, because we have all had them, and are going to keep being tempted by them until the day we die. If we are fortunate enough to withstand the temptations on our good days, that is great, and we set ourselves up for healing. However, if we fall to temptations on our bad days, at least there is always tomorrow where we can try again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Jason

HI Jason, I think I may try it too. I can understand the need to avoid the hydrogen peroxide for you at this point. I'm quite astounded this dentist put this on his website. You'd think he'd be creating it and packaging it or something and making out it's some "special formula", but he's actually making this info available to anybody, which almost gives me the impression he actually ..... dare I say it?....cares and isn't trying to make an extra buck off the side....

I'm having a real downer. It seems everywhere I turn, no matter what dentist I get in touch with, even the ones that start out ok, they ALWAYS end up cutting off contact once I start asking one too many questions (which I need to do in my state of health). At first they're ok, then I start to ask what bonding materials they use, what block of cerec and if they can send a sample of the material to me to test with to see if I'm ok with it.

once I do this? that's the last I hear from them. I start asking about cost and whether it reduces depending on how many are done and they "may" go so far as to answer that, but from then on, they just stop responding or they'll back out of the whole thing.

This has gone on for months now and so far, I'm not able to find a good dentist to help me with my situation. Even the biologic ones are difficult. They insist on face to face visits, consultations and testing, yet do not want to know about my severe reactions to mercury vapor and how I cannot afford to go into a dental office, unless I'm going in to actually get the job DONE. They all tell me their office is safe, yet when I go, I get repoisoned everytime. This is why I sit online and attempt to contact via email and provide them with as much info as I can (even an xray) and ask them some reasonable questions about cost, what materials they use, and if they can help me in my situation.

IT just falls apart everytime.

anyway, that's how it is right now.

The cayenne pepper makes sense, could be worth a try. I'm on a lot of stuff right now though, and trying to see how I respond to it but since the cigarette intake, I have absolutely and utterly plummeted.

Like you with the coffee (though at least yours is actually reasonable, I smoked a whole packet of cigarettes), but most of us are just too toxic and too sensitive to get away with things. It's not worth the misery.

At least you've got a positive attitude though! My needs a lot of work <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I realize this is a very old post, but I am moved to respond anyway. I have spent a LOT of hours researching all this amalgum removal/replacement stuff, and it is HARD to get answers from dentists! It's like you are insulting their integrity or something when you ask what materials they are using. And often asking about prices is difficult too, as they use the standard, "We couldn't tell you without an exam." BALLPARK people! Sheesh. I think they are not used to people questioning their craft. But it's high time that people getting any kind of medical procedures done ask these kinds of questions. In fact, I don't even like to think of myself as a "patient" of anybody...I'm a guy just trying to get a professional service performed in the cheapest, safest, longest-lasting way possible, and I want to know about it before I commit to hundreds in office visits. Is that REALLY too much to ask?

Yeah I agree. What angers me is, THEY are actually supposed to be the servants, because the person paying is the master (employer). So can someone tell me where they got these ideas about themselves?

We are the one holding the purse strings and have every right to ask questions before we even see them, yet it seems to be the other way around. It stinks. I have found most dentists I have been in touch with have been difficult and quite arrogant. others have been lovely and helpful, but they are quite rare!

And yeah you feel like you're treading on broken glass when you ask them anything, as though you have no right! When in actual fact we have every right to get answers to whatever we wish before we make any committment. Its' VERY frustrating and wastes so much of my time when they really do not want to "let on" but wish instead for the person to make a long trip to see them, pay a high consultation fee just to be told what they could quite easily have said across email but didn't.

No it isn't too much to ask, but you would think it was. I would still like to know where exactly they get such high ideas about themselves??? (again this is not all dentists I am getting at, but it seems very common which is sad). They seemt o be able to put outrageous costs on whatever they want and make you feel like THEY call the shots not you.

no kidding.

I expected dentists to act in a professional manner as well but mostly what I have found is the same thing as you. However, I disagree with the idea that 'they are not used to people questioning their craft'. I sincerely think they simply do not like to be questioned, are well taught even in school not to give too much information regarding the materials they use due to the fact that they themsleves know little about the materials they use. All they know is that Dentsply or some other company recommends it for this or that procedure, and truly little else, like an ill trained cheap car mechanic. They know next to nothing about chemical properties, reactions, or interactions. They know little about health and well being. Dentists are not taught these things and truly are unable to begin a discussion about it, and neither do they seem to care about anything more than getting paid. From my experience, dentists are one of the most poorly educated groups of professionals and that is why you will search high and low trying to find one to actually treat you in a respectful professional manner. They are not true professionals, they are tradesmen and businessmen, some better, some worse.

I have questioned the title of 'Dr' in front of their names for quite a while because they are not doctors in any sense of the word. They do not heal people, and again, know very little about biology and health. They drill teeth and they fill teeth, and that's about it. Some are good mechanics, some are not. Some use quality materials and some want to save twenty bucks (for themselves, not for you), though they'll all charge you more for their time than the very best real doctor in town. Most dentistry is a crime in my opinion.

Professional ethics does not appear to be on the curriculum at dental schools anywhere. A Dr friend of mine told me once 'you have to expect that type of behavior from dentists because for the most part they are the ones who didn't have the grades to get into medical school'.

What's really unnerving is when you know from your own profession and actual education in such matters, as in my case, the chemical properties of certain materials they use... the long known and well established toxicity of certain materials they use... and to be told by a dentist, a mere tradesman in my opinion with no education whatsover or obvious actual knowledge in the chemical properties of the materials they use, that you are wrong.

The lack of professionalism of dentists becomes quite clear when they treat other professionals like peons.

I can forgive a bad trademan easily enough, just poor workmanship. But the fact that they treat me like a retard from the get go and don't let up makes me seriously question their motives and intelligence.

One fact I know for sure about people is that ignorant people always think everyone else is stupid.

I am surprised at the high cost of Cerec inlays and onlays. It seems like many dentists may be charging more for these than dentists in the same city charge for lab made inlays or onlays? One would think that Cerec inlays or onlays should be priced much less than lab made ones(only one dental visit with Cerec, no lab fees, no temporary filling to be installed then removed, no mold of the tooth, etc.)According to this website, the average cost in 2004 in the US for porcelain inlays was $784. It does vary quite a bit by city.

http://www.bracesinfo.com/cgi-bin/costs1

http://www.bracesinfo.com/dentalcosts/

I asked my dentist about doing a bio-compadability test and he told me that he would do one for me , but all the test he had done on his past patients ,most if not all result came back as the same as every other pateint , so in my opinion what he just told me is he dosen't have to much faith in bio-compadability testing I am glad he is being honest with me , I trust him alot and take him at his word.

well it might be that there are some dental materials that are tolerated better by more people and some that are not. One dentist I know only uses two main dental materials, which is heliomolar HB and Cerec porcelain. he says out of his patients, they seem to be the most tolerated and are also mechanically excellent materials at the sametime.

Denal school is not medical school .Anyone with a pulse can get accepted to dental school.Therefore we need to do our own research before we consent to any dental procedure.

Sad but probably true.