I have recently been diagnosed with lead, mercury and thallium poisoning. Info available in NZ is limited! I have started on Dmsa 3 days on 11 days off with loads of nutrients etc in the 11 days. First time I became very ill after taking 800mg over a day and had to stop but am trying again on Friday at lower dose of 300mg per day. Would love to know of another using similar method and how they got on.

Hi, I'm from new zealand too!! And yeah, info here is limited I know. along with the amount of dentists and doctors who are trained specifically in this biologic field of medicine.

Not sure what method of chelation you're doing? But I strongly suggest that ifyou're not doing the Andrew Hall Cutler method, that you definitely give it a go. No presusre, but I can tell you that this man, who is a biochemist has spent years and years studying mercury and every aspect of it, including how to chelate it in such a way to avoid making a person worse, or causing damage. He cured himself of it and works with many mercury people, adults and children alike (even autstic kids).

More and more people are getting onto his protocol, some of whom have been adversely affected by other protocols and been made very ill. His is proving to be very safe and very effective.

The protocol is this - DMSA is taken every 4 hours around the clock (even at night) non stop for about 3 days or up to a week if wanted.

The reason for this method is based on the fact DMSA has a certain amount of time it remains in the blood at a certain level, if a person does not take it every four hours, the DMSA level in the blood drops and then suddenly they go and take another dose later on, or the next day or whenever, which causes random movement of mercury as the blood levels of DMSA are not consistant or remaining at the same level, so mercury is redistributed and can go into worse areas like nervous sytem and brain.

I have experienced this and it's horrific. his protocl avoids this. The dose recommended is about 25 mg of DMSA every 4 hours. The person can then either reduce the dose if it's too high for their tolerance, or increase. But a good idea is to start low and take the same dose for the whole round and then see how you feel following it and remain on the same dose for a few susequent rounds until you are certain you ar ready to increase.

Not a good idea to reduce the dose during a round, as this can alter the amount of DMSA in the blood during this time and cause possible redistribution of mercury. Better to stop the round if the dose is too high, wait for a few days and try again on a lower dose. You can however, INCREASE the dose during a round if you want to try a higher dose, but better to do this before you even start a round.

Basically you can do this for 3 days up to a week. Then you take a break for about the same amoutn of time you had on. You repeat this cycle for a few months so your blood/tissue/urine mercury will be reduced over that time.

Later on, when you're ready, you can add the antioxidant alpha lipoic acid, which is the true blue chelator and is used in teh same way, either with the DMSA, or alone. but must be taken every 3-4 hours around the clock for about 3 days every week. This is the one that removes mercury from brain and organs and is the one to cure.

however, if it's used too early on and you have a high body burden of mercury, you risk further uptake into the brain because lipoic acid can move through and cross the blood brain barrier, so you want to make sure your body area is as clear as possible (the blood etc) before this.

DMSA does not clear brain mercury, it cannot pass the blood brain barrier. Some say it does, but the tests done were done on rats. Rats have a very permeable BBB and DMSA easily crosses it, so it can remove mercury from rat's brain. Humans have a totally different BBB and DMSA cannot pass over it to any clinical degree.

Also, if you're not already? You may want to seriously consider making sure you are following a candida diet. This is often absolutely essential for mercury toxic people, as candida is a very big problem with mercury and can cause enough ill health on it's own, let alone with the mercury.
Plus, can improve your immune system, gut and liver and help your body feel a little better, stronger and help with the detox process.

DMSA can encourage some candida overgrowth so the diet can often be crucial to keep things under control, particulary when yu're chelating.

Sorry for such a long post, just trying to put across as much information as I can and have learned. I have suffered many years, gone through many bad detox protocols and been injured, finally came to one that worked and was safe, and was healing from this condition.

Sadly I have had crashes to my immune system from other illnsess that I can't seem to recover from, so I don't really get the improvements I did, but I can tell you that the candida diet, the safe protocl of DMSA and later lipoic acid, will very possibly be your best bet at getting through this.

along with supplements to help like antioxidants, (vitamin C, vitamin E, milk thistle possibly, selenium (selenomethione form), magnesium, B complex, zinc etc. Some suggestions.

No pressure, this is here if you wish to go with this method.

All the best

Thanks for all that Bex. I will talk to my Dr about it but she did a lot of research on all the different methods and everyone thinks their way is best so it is very confusing. We decided to give it another go this Friday at a lower dose and see what happens. We do however break that daily dose up over the day so a little bit similar. I will do a search on Andrew Hall Cutter as well to show her the info. What part of NZ are you in?

Hi there, yeah there are lots of different mercury detox protocols. Andy Cutler's is probably the safest I know though, but you gotta try what you want to try and whatever suits you or works.

He has a book called "Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment" by Andrew Hall Cutler. It is available online and I think Russ on here advertises it too with a link.

I have the book here, so I am quite happy to send it to you if you want to borrow it. My doctor has read it and often patients get it and let their doctors have a good read and sometimes the doctor will end up converted towards that way of doing chelation because of the logic behind it and the science.

So if your doctor is open to read the book herself, and if you ever want to try his way, she may be more receptive to help you do that.

I live in Lower Hutt (wellington). Which part are you in?

thanks Bex, have sent you a message.

Me too. I am just starting DMSA. I've decided to give it a shot for a quicker chelation. Bex you seem to be really knowladgable on the subject. I understand most of the Cutler's protocol. I am going to start with 25mg DMSA and do that for 3 days on and 3 days off. When can I add ALA and in what amount. I am over 6 months post removal and have been already chelating with protein and Heavy Metal Detox. Also will I need to increase the dose for each DMSA and ALA in the future or I should just stick to 25mg of DMSA and ?mg of ALA for 6 months to 2 years. Thanks ahead. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Hi Alex, I wish I was more knowledgeable than I am, but I've been around for a long time with this toxicity, so I guess you could say all the mistakes I've made and time to research it has kind of put me in this position to where I try and pass on some things I've read or learned myself.

The fact you are already six months post amalgam removal would allow you to start ALA now if you chose to, either alone or with the DMSA. However, I would suggest to err on the side of caution and definitely use dmsa on its own for a while to see how you go and what reactions you get.

DMSA is crucial to use on it's own for the first three months post amalgam removal, as this is generally where the blood levels are high and need reducing either by waiting it out or using DMSA to make it go easier and obvously quicker. ALA is then brought on board once the blood/urine levels are reduced to chelate organ and brain mercury.

ALA chelates both body and brain. DMSA reduces the more accessible mercury blood/tissue etc. So it's wise to use intially until you are sure you can bring ALA onboard.

So yeah, I would start with 25 mg of DMSA and from there, judge how you feel wither during a round or after, as to whether you feel you need to reduce the dose or increase, but only increase it cautiously, you have to make sure you can tolerate the dose you're on for a few rounds before increasing, as sometimes the side effects do not always get you on the first round or so.

Then if you can handle that dose, increase and do the same, keep going for for a few chelation rounds (which is a full 3 days, so do about 4 or 5 of those 3 day rounds before increasing).

Then if you get up to about 50 mg, maybe up to 100 mg and you're doing fine for a few rounds on that, then it would seem pretty obvious you will be safe enough to add ALA to the mix.

You can start on 25 mg of ALA or less, as this stuff can REALLY get symptoms going. This is why it's sometimes better to use with the DMSA to help with that.

You basically do the same with ALA that you did with DMSA with the dosing and judging on symptoms and using it for a few rounds before increasing. Certainly decrease if you feel things are above your tolerance! Do NOT decrease a dose during a round, it will increase redistribution. So if things are not tolerable on a round, STOP the round, wait for a few days and start again on a reduced dose (applies to both DMSA and ALA).

You can however increase a dose during a round, as for some reason this does not seem to impact redistribution as much. Personally I would not adjust doses during a round, I don't thing it's a great idea. I think it alters the levels of both chelating agents and can then make the movement of mercury more erratic.

You can stick to 25 mg of both if you wish. Some people just go to 25 of DMSA and then bring ALA on without increasing DMSA. And then they just chelate with both on that dose. But it's up to you, based on how you feel.

If you tolerate them both at that dose, you may wish to increase later to increase a bit of mercury chelation. Some go up to 100 mg of both eventually and even higher in some cases.

Definitely listen to your body and the main thing is using the frequent regime and not fiddling with dosage changes during a round, as I find that frankly risky. Stop the round if you're in doubt and wait for a few days before starting another round. This also applies to missing a dose. If you miss a dose (i.e. you're about an hour or so overtime before you remembered to take a dose), do NOT continue the round, stop the round and again wait for a few days.

You can get away with taking a late dose, so long as it's not TOO late. So you can get away with about half an hour or so, but be careful.

Hope that's helpful to you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thanks a lot for this detailed explanation Bex! All your posts are really helpful. So basically the point of increasing the dose is to chelate more mercury and faster. So if I chelate with 25mg of DMSA and ALA without increasing it, then I am looking at about 2 years of frequent dose chelation, but if I get up to a 100mg for each, then I would be in the 6 months range. And whether I will be forced to go, based on how I feel, with the low dose or high dose, if after a few more rounds post frequent dose chelation I have no side effects and not feeling any different, then I am done or cleaned or cured right? By the way my first DMSA round begins in 20 minutes, I set my cell phone to alarm every four hours. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Hi, I don't know how significant the increased removal of mercury is with going up from say 25 mg, to 100 mg. It does go up, but not to the point where it's worth doing if you can't tolerate it. It's not such a huge difference to where you should do it even if you feel horrible.

You just go up to tolerance basically and it's not a bad thing to feel unwell or the side effects etc, just so long as you're not going over that.

The real way to judge things is when you finally get onto using ALA with the DMSA (or alone if you really want) and then that is when you will be chelating brain and organ mercury. That is the one that improves/cures people.

You won't know if you are cured, you can feel better much earlier on than you are actually cured. For example, you could end up chelating with DMSA and ALA (or ALA alone)for only a month or so and feel a lot better and "thinik" you're cured. And this is the mistake many make they don't realise that there comes a time when the ALA is actually keeping you well because it's chelating the mercury as it's leaking out before it can build back up, so then they feel so much better, they stop the chelation and find the symptoms returning.

So you need to chelate for a long time, even if you feel well to make sure you have removed far more mercury.

It's great to feel better early on, but a good idea to keep going regardless. YOu have to chelate for about 6 months - to a year AFTER you think you're well. And some even longer, depending on how toxic they are.

Also, you can feel worse on a round and better off a round, or better on a round and worse off, so sometimes the way to judge your tolerance of the dose is not always how you feel on the round, but also what happens inbetween rounds.

Once you add ALA, then you should start noticing changes, either feeling worse, or better on a round or inbetween the round. But as I said, with ALA, you do not stop if you feel better, the key is to keep going for a long time to be sure. Then later, when you relaly do think you're "cured", you can take a break from chelation and see if any symptoms return again and if they do, just get back on the chelation and keep going.

You dn't have to get to 100 mg of either chelator, you can use a dose that suits you, but if you can increase it eventually up to that if you can tolerate it and feel that you'll speed up the process a bit more, then by all means increase.

Let me know how things go on the DMSA alone, I'll be interested to hear if you notice anything. The people who improve greatly on just DMSA, are usually the ones who do not have significant brain mercury and can often feel better just from DMSA. Others, need to use ALA for a long time in order to cure themselves.

good luck <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Bex,

Thanks again for the long post. Yea, I will be using this thread on my experience with DMSA for the next few rounds or until I get ALA in the mix. I personally like to post here than yahoo. Regarding the DMSA, it is encouraging to hear that some benefited just from the DMSA alone. Right now I am on DMSA. Maybe I am already benefiting? I am also pleased that DMSA along with mercury removes lead, and cadmium. Regarding ALA, I checked Natures Sunshine, and their ALA has like 250mg or ten times the recommended starting dose. I will check out other sites and get back to you.

HI, yeah it is good that some benefit on DMSA alone. I hope you do. It might help at the very least. Yeah, I like posting on here rather than yahoo too.

Not sure if you'd be benefitting this early on, but it's possible if it's grabbing any available mercury.

250 mg of ALA is alot to try and break down. I can get hold of 100 mg from my country, which is still a lot, but it's hard to get them in lower doses. I think on the frequent dose site they have places where you can get lower doses of ALA, either on links or files section.

Anyway, let me know if/when you find out. I wouldn't get any because i'm overseas and I would end up paying the cost of postage which would probably cost as much as the product itself, if not more!

Could be, because I ate shrimp and pumpkin seeds earlier. Also I eat according to my blood type (0) mainly proteins and vegitables which is a high sulfur diet that could be mobilizing mercury more than other diet. But overall I feel good right now, like I am getting a serotinin boost or something.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well, that is really good. Diet plays a huge role in this whole thing. I think it helps the process along and probably helps heal and rebuild tissues.

It would be pretty cool if the DMSA was already helping you this early on. Do you feel it is? or coincidence? I'm about to start mine again soon, I've had a flu virus and then had to be put on antibiotics, so I got hit down very badly. I'm close to staring soon though. I take 50 mg of it now, but don't notice much changes at all, so I'm wondering if most of the mercury is in the brain/nervous system etc.

But I don't quite trust myself to use ALA just yet.

Oh good Bex that you are starting again. I feel like DMSA is already helping me. I had to get up at 2 am and 6 am though. Yea I think that ALA would be your best bet, since you've been in the game for a while already. You know I looked up 25 mg of ALA on some sites and I didn't like their products. They were cheap and had additives and flavorings. But I found out that a good way to make 25mg ALA out of a 100mg is to mix it in the water or juice and then just drink the 4th. I am thinking of ordering a 100mg of ALA from the site you suggested http://www.vivagen.net/detoxprods.htm
That's where I got my DMSA and quite pleased with their product and service.

All Right, here is my experience with the DMSA’ first round. So far the only negative side-effect I’ve had was intense head ache or (head pain) on the second day of taking 25mg of DMSA every 4 hours. However, the headache went away a little bit after I took some vitamin c/w bioflavonods about 2000mg every 4 hours. But after I took about 2000mg of Algin the headache went away completely after only half an hour. I didn’t need to take anymore Algin as the total of three days went on and I remained on feeling better than normal. So, thumbs up to the Algin and DMSA! Along with those I take magnesium complex 600 mg through out the day, vitamin e with selenium 400 IU – 800 IU per day, 5 – HTP powder 35 – 70 mg per day, and thyroid support. Soon I will also add these to my menu: adrenal support, milk thistle twice a day for a total of 700 mg, b-complex vitamins, Olive leaf extract (once per day), green tea extract (once per day), and last but not least ‘organic flaxseeds’. Since finding out that I am a (o) type blood person, I have been eating a diet that is already an anti-Candida, like no sugar, wheat, yeast, and dairy. My diet consist mostly of meats, fish, and veggies. Nevertheless, I have occasionally snuck in a fruit, juice, or dried fruit (prunes).
Any suggestions or reactions to my diet?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hi Alex, good going. I cant' really fault what you're doing, you have worked things out to what is suiting you best and what works. And your diet sounds healthy. I'd only make adjustments if you felt the bits of fruit you were adding were causing any yeast flare ups, but if not, all power to you.

As for dairy, I don't drink milk, but I do have plain acidophilus yoghurt, which seems ok for me. And occassionally I have some cheese, but probably shouldn't.

REcently, I lost it totally and snuck into my father's room, found a king sized bar of chocolate, ate the entire thing, then got a full packet of cookies (i' say cookies becuse i know american's use that term, we use the term biscuits for what you call cookies). And today, iwent to my neice's birthday and ate cake and had other things.

I totally outdid myself. Not happy, but I'm fed up with everything. However, I will not give up and will get back on track immediately.

But when I slip? I slip big. But it's not worth it really. As for DMSA? I don't know if it's coincidence, but it seems any chelation at the moment, after my recent flu virus and antibiotic use is causing more intense exhaustion, however it could be coincidence, so i'm going off it and seeing if it goes an then going back on and see if it flares up again.

anyway, thanks for letting us know how you're going on the DMSA and the help of the algin which seems to be really doing its thing! That is great.

The fact you got headaches though (before you upped the vitamin C and used the algin), does indicate things happening and detoxing, and may indicate the dose coudl be a bit high at this point, but ifyou can handle it? then no reason to reduce it. Side effects are expected but should not be totally intolerable.

Bex, you are not alone. When I slip up, I do it BIG TIME too. But I keep coming back to the diet etc. Hang in there!

I got Cutler's book again and looking at it this time I am making a lot more sense out of it. Maybe this is due to me taking supplements and chelating and hence feeling better. Also I noticed that my tongue is really clean as it never has been before. The tongue is an indicator of cleaniness of the organism. There are a lot of supplements in Cutler's book that I will definetely include and the best part is that Nature's Sunshine got most of them and in the right proportions! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />