Don't shoot the messenger as this might offend some Andy fans in here nor do I know if it's all true or not. I won't be trying the Selenium again soon though, this might be why it made me nuts everytime I started it for a few days.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/AMALGAM/NL/SUPPLEMENTEN/selenium03.html

http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/AMALGAM/NL/SUPPLEMENTEN/selenium01.html


Pretty good read, scared me a little bit as far as the Selenium I was using.

More info on selenium in relation with dental-amalgam

>Not being a chelating agent, selenium is safe to take while fillings are
>still in. In fact, it is extremely helpful since it passivates mercury and
>also promotes the formation of more of certain selenium containing enzymes
>that mercury poisons. Mercury toxic people should take at least 200 mcg of
>selenium as selenomethionine daily regardless of whether their fillings are
>in or out.
>Andy Cutler


Like Peter Doedens already pointed out, the above advice from AC is
scientifically incompteent, not based on facts, as usual, as science has shown that
selenium INCREASES brain organic mercury uptake ... ( incompetent advice, just
like Cutler claims of LA as chelator, while recent science posted on this list from
medline,m 1991, proved that LA is not a chelator, but instead an antioxidant, and
it has also been show how Cutler's touted dmps+la is dangerous pro-oxidative mixture
for iron and copper poisoned, and it has also been presented that his
protcol has damaged people such as Vanessa, now this selenium advice from Andy
Cutler may be really additionally brain damaging to those do not want their
brains damaged with increased brain intake of mercury selenium causes ... Just feel
sorry for all those who become senile before their time because of following Cutler's
dangerous advice.

Following a reference of solid mercury research pioneers :
============================================

"The effect of selenium on the brain uptake of methylmercury.
Magos L; Webb M
Arch Toxicol, 1977 Sep, 38:3, 201-7
Twenty-four h after the subcutaneous administration of 0.5 mumoles
selenite labelled with 75Se to rats of 200 g body weight, the
retention of selenium at the injection site was significantly increased
by the presence of equimolar amounts of methylmercury in the
injection solution. The retention of Me203HgCl was not affected by the
presence of selenite. The most significant shift caused by
interaction was a decrease in the blood content and an increase in the
brain content of 203Hg. The brain content of 75Se
==========================================================
was also increased to a lesser extent. The shift in the
distribution--which was the same whether the two metals were injected at
the same site or separately--continuously decreased from 6-48 h. The same
interaction pattern was observed when methylmercury and
selenite were administered by gastric gavage and differences in
distribution increased when the dose was increased from 1.25
mumoles/kg to 2.5 mumoles/kg. The increase in the brain content of
mercury caused by selenite was not restricted to

================================================================
simultaneous administration and occurred when selenite was given 2-7
days after methylmercury. "
===========================================================================

I.E. Concomitant Selenium intake in high with hg like Andy Cutler
suggests ( just like his LA+DMPS advice ) as is the case when
amalgams are still, will INCREASE BRAIN ORGANIC MERCURY uptake from
blood ( amalgam mercury converts to organic in blood in vivo all
the time ) , and only real fools would want to increase their brain
uptake.

Therefore, the above advice to take selenium while amalgams are still in
is not very cool, especially for those who have more than non-existing
organic mercury component in their blood.

For additional support, MD Daunderer's decades long experience showed
that selenium was a no-no for amalgam patients with amalgams in,
and even for some time after, as quite many got worse from selenium,
and he warns against the selenium in his material.

I personally tried selenium in the early days of being
poisoned and sometime after removal even, and got
severe heart arrythmias from the selenium, also in the
form of selenomethionine, and it took me years to recover
enough from the dmps damage and amalgam poisoning to tolerate
any selenium in any form, and I have never tolerated more than
200 ug, but never actually want to take that much at a time,
most I would take is 75 ug at a time, and only a few years post
removal, unless, one was not significantly poisoned to start with,
and not poisoned with any organic mercury at all, in that case,
selenium may be more tolerable to those little poisoned, and those
with practically no organic mercury load.


Regards. Ray S.

+++++++++++++ http://www.listserv.gmd.de/archives/amalgam.html

Subject: Insignificance of inorganic mercury in the brain mercury poisoning ... Selenium, B12, C and lipoic poison the brains by increasing meHg intake to brains and impairing liver meHg detox
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 02:01:06 -0700
From: Ray S
Reply-To: Mercury Poisoning from Dental Amalgam
To: AMALGAM@LISTSERV.GMD.DE


++++++ Mercury Poisoning from Dental Amalgam ++++++


>TITLE: Speciation of mercury in the primate blood and brain following long-
>term exposure to methyl mercury.
>AUTHORS: Vahter M; Mottet NK; Friberg L; Lind B; Shen DD; Burbacher T
>AUTHOR AFFILIATION: Institute of Environmental Medicine, Karolinska
>Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden.
>SOURCE: Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 1994 Feb;124(2):221-9

>ABSTRACT: Total (T-Hg) and inorganic (I-Hg) mercury in blood and brain of
>female Macaca fascicularis monkeys, exposed to daily peroral doses of methyl
>mercury (MeHg; 50 micrograms Hg/kg body wt) for 6, 12, or 18 months, or to
>continuous iv infusion of HgCl2 (200 micrograms Hg/kg body wt) for 3 months,
>were determined. In normal weight monkeys (2.4-4.1 kg body wt) exposed to
>MeHg, steady state of T-Hg in blood (1.1 micrograms Hg/g) was reached in
>about 4 months. The elimination T1/2 in blood was 26 days. I-Hg constituted
>7% of T-Hg in blood. The average concentration of MeHg in occipital pole and
>thalamus was about 3 micrograms Hg/g at 6 months and 4.5 micrograms Hg/g at
>12-18 months.

>Accumulation in brain seemed to be biphasic. Following
>termination of 12 months exposure, elimination T1/2 for MeHg in brain was 35
>days. I-Hg constituted about 9% of T-Hg in brain at 6-12 months, 18% at 18
>months, and 74% at 6 months after termination of exposure. The I-Hg
>concentrations were somewhat higher in thalamus than in occipital pole. The
>elimination T1/2 for I-Hg was extremely long, on the order of years. Most
>likely, the I-Hg was formed by demethylation of MeHg in the brain. In monkeys
>exposed to HgCl2, blood levels of 0.6 micrograms I-Hg/g gave rise to brain
>I-Hg levels of about 0.1 micrograms/g only. In three heavy weight monkeys
>(5.0-6.1 kg body wt) exposed to MeHg, blood Hg increased to about 2
>micrograms Hg/g, indicating a limited distribution of MeHg to fat. The Hg
>concentrations in brain (7-22 micrograms Hg/g) were considerably higher than
>those in normal weight monkeys, due to the high blood Hg levels in
>combination with a high brain-to-blood distribution ratio.


>They have a figure that shows this all very nicely. Once they stop putting
>methylmercury into the monkeys, methylmercury levels in the monkey brains
>fall precipitiously. Inorganic mercury levels don't budge.


----------------

The same study shows very nicely that that there is no brain-poisoning from inorganic mercury, as 4 times higher inorganic mercury exposure ( HgCl2 ) resulted in ONLY 1/30th to 1/45th of the levels the organic mercury did, ie, inorganic mercury accumulates 120 - 190 times less to brains per same dose as methyl-mercury does.

This means that practically ALL brain mercury poisoning is from methyl-mercury entering the brains, converting there to inorganic, and locking into the brains.

Therefore, taking agents that impair methyl-mercury detox causing higher blood methyl-mercury levels will cause higher brain methyl-mercury intake, which will result in higher brain mercury levels ( for example Lipoic acid impairs methyl- mercury detox from liver, which will naturally lead to higher blood methyl-mercury levels, and therefore higher brain mercury intake from the methyl-mercury, as inorganic mercury is not taken to brains practically at all ...

A reference that suggests LA may be bad idea for brains, as it impairs liver methyl-mercury detox, and as Methyl-mercury is responsible for up over 99 % of all mercury intake to brains, LA can really cause increase intake to the brains ...

" Effect of lipoic acid on biliary excretion of glutathione and metals. Gregus Z; Stein AF; Varga F; Klaassen CD Department of Pharmacology, University Medical School of PÆecs, Hungary. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol, 1992 May, 114:1, 88-96 Several metals are excreted in bile as glutathione complexes, and their biliary excretion is facilitated by increased hepatobiliary transport of glutathione. The present study analyzed the effect of lipoic acid (LA; thioctic acid; 37.5-300 mumol/kg, iv),an endogenous disulfide which can be reduced in vivo to a dithiol, on the hepatobiliary disposition of glutathione-related thiols and the biliary excretion of metals (10 mumol/kg, iv) in rats. Administration of LA enhanced the biliary excretion of reduced glutathione in a dose-dependent fashion.

Despite increasing glutathione output, LA (150 mumol/kg, iv) did not increase, but rather decreased, the biliary excretion of methylmercury, cadmium, zinc, and coppe - !! - , which are transported into bile in a glutathione-dependent manner, as indicated by a marked reduction in their biliary excretion after diethyl maleate-induced glutathione depletion.

It also showed that those who are heavy-weight and with excess body fat, are going to absorb lot more mercury to their brains than those who are thinner, and not overly fatty, who do not have as much distribution of the methyl-mercury to their fats, and those that circulate their brains.

So, a great way to get brains mercury poisoned is to eat plenty fatty foods, taking excess doses of methylating nutrients such as TMG, B12, C, Selenium, and at the same time, taking nutrients that impair reduction of blood/liver methyl-mercury such as lipoic acid, and keeping oneself overweight.

Selenium is also a great way to pump mercury to the brains, in addition to B12+C combo, and blocking liver methyl-mercury detox with lipoate, or taking SAMe that also methylates mercury and can together therefore help methylate kidney, GI and oral deposits of inorganic to methyl-mercury, and then cause the raising of blood and brain methyl-mercury levels, and as the methyl-mercury is the main intake mode, this is non-desireable.

This reference summarizes some of the nutrients causing biomethylation :

Recent studies on biomethylation and demethylation of toxic elements. Ridley WP; Dizikes L; Cheh A; Wood JM Environ Health Perspect, 1977 Aug, 19:, 43-6 Methylcobalamin (methyl-B12) has been implicated in the biomethylation of the heavy metals (mercury, tin, platinum, gold, and thallium) as well as the metalloids (arsenic, selenium, tellurium and sulfur).

In addition, methylcobalamin has been shown to react with lead, but the lead-alkyl product is unstable in water.
Details of the kinetics and mechanisms for biomethylation of arsenic are presented, with special emphasis on synergistic reactions between metal and metalloids in different oxidation states. This study explains why synergistic, or antagonistic, processes can occur when one toxic element reacts in the presence of another. The relative importance of biomethylation reactions involving methylcobalamin will be compared to those reactions where S-adenosylmethionine is is involved.

>This also again raises the point that mercury does not methlyate inside of
>you. In fact, it would be great if it did because if you could get the
>mercury in your brain to methlyate it would come out.

>Andy Cutler

This also again raises the point that mostly all mercury to the brains and nerves is from methyl-mercury, that is formed in vivo, from B12+ C and selenium and methylating microbial contribution, and that taking excess selenium, B12 + C vitamins, and having flora that methylates mercury ( candida ) will all increase blood methyl-mercury, and that is the major form of mercury taken into the brains ( absorbing up to 190 times better to brains than inorganic ) and that the heavy-weighter one is, and the more one has fatty tissues, the more will one get mercury taken into the brains.

The references that demonstrate how mercury methylates in you = in vivo by C+B12 vitamin combo can be found from the list archives, posted there NUMEROUS times, as well as the fact that seleium increase organic mercury intake to brians has been also posted there, and the above references posted by Andy as well as the Lipoate reference suggest that one wants to keep BLOOD and LIVER methyl-mercury levels to minimum to minimize brain methyl-mercury intake, which is the absolutely major intake mode of mercury to the brains, and once there, part demethylates back to inorganic and locks into the brains, and won't come out easily anymore with anything else but DMSA, and even with that, slowly, but at least it helps to reverse what excess intake of LA, Vit C+B12+selenium and eating plenty fats can cause.

So, if one wants to avoid pumping mercury to brains, one wants to :

1. Avoid eating oneself heavy-weight, putting up plenty fat, and increasing brain methyl-mercury uptale

2. Avoid excess nutrients Lipoic acid, Selenium, S-adesnosylmethionine, Methylcobalamin and C vitamin

That is while one still has plenty extra-brain inorganic mercury in the tissues that can be converted to methyl-mercury and taken to brains.

Numerous people have experienced getting foggy in the brains, and developing the methyl-mercury twitches after eating fatty foods, after takign lipoate, SAMe, C+Methylcobalamin, or Selenium in excess ( and also felt the arrythmias the methyl-mercury in the heart may cause in addition to the foggyness and muscle twitches ... )

Regards, Ray Saarela

+++++++++++++ http://www.listserv.gmd.de/archives/amalgam.html ++++++++++++++

Sean what form of selenium are you using? Sodium Selenite?

I am not using it right now, but I believe it was from Broccoli? It always reacted really badly in me for some reason? I would get a huge yeast type flare up after a week and wake up early with mind racing and so on, so I stopped both times I used this form. I believe it is called Phytosel? Thats the form I was using.

I can understand how this argues againts candida/methyl b12 and perhaps even vitamin c/selenium but I dont get how this argues againts la even if ti does decrease methyl-mercury clearance from the liver.

after all:

a) if u cut out methyl b12, bad flora/candida (hi james;)), selenium u should very much decrease the PRODUCTION of methyl-mercury and thus worry less about the bilary clearance

b) that's what the chelation breaks are for- to restore biochemistry after ALA eg. restore bilary extrection.

c) ALA - if used under the right protocole - will chelate the mercury out of you in the longterm, and will clear the brain MUCH better then dmsa alone.

i always thought most mercury in chronic hg poisoning is inorganic... not methylmercury.... The body needs 6 months to clear methylmercury... it is the inorganic hg that can not be excreted well and remains trapped in the body...

this guy ray sareela is not very credible in my opinion. I read one of his posts at Autism-Mercury where he said it is safe to give DMSA every 8 hours because the DMSA manual said so(DMSA was developed for lead poisoning)

I just posted it in here to see what you guys thought and your thoughts, don't really agree nor disagree as I don't know too much about ALA or Methyl Mercury (Selenium as well). I just know everyone I read it says Selenium is a must if you are toxic and it helps detox or displace it, so I don't know who is right here? Him or the ones who tell you to use it? Always so many questions, one does well on this one doesn't and so and so says this and that, it's confusing.