This is prob a dumb question, but maybe there's an interaction or? I find the ala makes me choke if I'm splitting caps to devide it. Goes down great with yogurt tho. thx, kathy

(started round 2 @12 midnite)

It does burn the throat a bit...I normally dissolve it in my mouth with as much water as possible and then swallow, and follow with another gulp of water to wash it down as fast as possible. Yogurt would be fine though, as long as it gets in your stomach.

Good luck with round 2! I started round 5 last night as well. I have some DMSA coming in the mail and I'm going to try a mixed round next round (ALA+ DMSA) as Andy says it will clear mercury even faster from the body.

Thanks gd. have you seen good improvements so far? Good luck with #5..I'm doing every 3 hrs ala only. I may add dmsa in a few weeks too.

I Certainly do see improvements. Part of me wishes I would have started earlier, but its a learning process I guess. I'm very optimistic about where I will we be as I continue chelating.

I can't remember what its like not to have mercury taint my thoughts and feelings...I've had fillings for literally as long as I can remember, even as a young child. I could always sense something was wrong in my head though...just didn't know why until I was in my late teens...and it definitely got much worse after getting braces.

i use empty gelatin capsules and put the divided ala powder into. yeah ala does make u choke, burn etc on its own.

How much ala are you taking/day? each dose I mean? I do about 20mg every 3 hrs...

I'm doing 25 mg...but I'm going to have to make a jump to 50mg soon as I have caps that are already 50mg. I tried 50mg one round and it gave me some nasty symptoms afterwards but I also started taking an organic adrenal glandular (bovine) at that point and I think that made me feel worse.

I'm getting some DMSA to do a mixed round, as I heard that can help you excrete more mercury each round as ALA takes mercury out through your stools mainly and DMSA will help it move through your urine more as well.

Hi Gd, DMSA can also help with symptoms. DMSA can sometimes help suppress them, whereas ALA does not. Hence why when both are taken together, it can be helpful. Depends on the person.

If you don't do well, then you can always ditch the DMSA. But yes apparently adding DMSA does increase the clearance of mercury. I think it would do a more thorough and possibly safer job too; Having both onboard!

katson, i finished a round of 16mg ala/4mg dmsa a couple of days ago (of course not even full 3 days because of yeast issues that i'm now fighting... again). i use 100mg ala capsules to begin with (and 25 dmsa) and here's a good tip I think for dividing doses as it is very difficult with ala powder as there is so little of it taht it's hard to be precise; i mix the ala/dmsa powder with some vitaminc powder (like half a teaspoon), put it in some post-supplement bottle and stir it up really well and then I have more powder for dividing to begin with and thus more precise doses (hopefully...). hope it helps

Thanks j. sounds like a good idea. I'll try it.


Bex, day 2, 2nd round...right hip joint is killing me. I can't straighten leg in bed without screaming. Hip joint locks etc. I wouldn't mind if it was'nt so painful! Is this merc too? ever heard of it?

Hi Katson, I have heard of mercury lodging in the jawbone etc, and I don't see why it wouldn't affect the joints and get in there, since it travels everywhere! I'd say YES! I have had experiences of severe lower back pain and sore joints and finding it hard also to straight them, once I've been sitting down or something. I was almost screaming agony to do the same as you're doing (straight myself). So this rings bells with me.

I assume it was mercury, since over time this resolved and things were loosened up nicely again with NO pain after detox! So it's possible, but in my unprofessional unqualified status, I would not like to say for certain, since this is your your health and in case there is some other issue going on.....

I can only take unqualified guesses. Things can hurt as mercury is chelated/mobilised/moved and pulled out and around. Wherever that mercury is residing? You can get increased symptoms in those very areas. E.g. some have had burning pain and pulling sensations in the brain area or in bones too and muscles etc. At times it can feel like sheer agony. I had to stop chelation sometimes in the middle of a round because I could not always continue due to aching and exhaustion. Thankfully, due to it being Cutler's protocol, I did not get quite the insane psycho symptoms I had with other methods which seemed only to move mercury around wildly.

Thanx Bex. I think this right hip going out started when my adrenals began to collapse in 2003. I kept insisting that my doc send me for xrays...they showed nothing. (it was all in my head)

I believe you are right, it's the mercury.

I added app 25mg dmsa/every 3 hrs. to my regime last night (to help remove the merc in this 3rd day of the round) So far so good.I will stop at three days again(sleep at midnight tonight!)Haven't slept much while on these rounds.( I'm riveted to the tv 24/7 with the election) Thanx so much for your help Bex, k

Hi Katson,

Seeing as mercury messes up the glandular system, I'd not be surprised regarding any adrenal collapse (though that can be down to other things as well - viral infections, exhaustion from stress/work etc). But mercury is another culprit.

Well at least with the xrays not showing anything, it seems it may well be mercury. It's silent, invisible/insidious when it's been absorbed like that. I get very ill from breathing it in when I go into any dental office.

How have you been handling waking up at night to take doses? I used to find that a real strain. I used to take it approximately like this - 9 am, 12 midday, 3 pm, 6 pm, 9 pm, 12 midnight, 3 am, 6 am, etc etc.

You can extend the night doses to every 4 hours if it helps with sleep though and go back to 3 during the day.

Do not increase a dose during a round. Apparently this can alter the level of chelator in the blood suddenly and may cause redistribution. You shoudl stick to the same dose until you finish the round. You can always start a new round later on an increased dose if you wish. It's just not good to mess around with dosing during rounds.

I can understand you being riveted to the TV! Perhaps you should take advantage of being awake so much and do as much chelating as you can (within reason). You can do it for up to a week or two. The only issue is loss of sleep and I don't know many who would wish to do that, but you can extend the round if you want. It doesn't have to be rigidly 3 days. It can be 4, 5, more. Just so long as the break inbetween is about the same amount of time to give proper recovery.

You're welcome Katson!

Bex, Wow, been off the ala 2 days and still feel horrid. The thought of another round is more than I care to think about...DID YOU FEEL WORSE FOR DAYS AFTER A ROUND ? (oops hit the caps)I'm losing weight again like crazy.Did you?

My breaks are always MUCH WORSE than when I'm on round.

Hi Katson, yes I did. It took me over a week sometimes to feel better. Which isn't much consolation, considering you want to get on with doing another round....

I suspect you maybe taking a bit much at this point. So you may have to extend your breaks inbetween to allow your body to try and recover. Since even on breaks, it seems the body is still in the process of some mercury movement/reabsorption and healing crisis symptoms can continue.

Losing weight isn't so surprising, considering the amount of toxins that can be dumped. You can lose your appetite also and get insomnia. I got many odd things happen during/between detoxing. It is not fun!

B.lady, Bex, thnx . I think you may be right and I'm going too fast. I'm thinking I'll do the 11 days in betwween ...3 on/11 off..also lower the dose of ala....the physical pain I am experiencing is really frightening(especially when waking) They say mercury poisoning is made much worse when one is also lead poisoned. ( that would be me) I don't normally cry easily from pain...this has been relentless..so I cry to avoid screaming...truly a smorgasboard of torture...God forgive them

I think you are still doing too much if ALA if you think you need 11 days off of chelating. That means there is still too much redistribution of mercury. You should really consider lowering your dose to where you can do 3 days on and 4 days off. Its better to do a very low dose you can tolerate and get some mercury out safely than overdo it and do a lot of damage while getting some mercury out.

There are many people on the frequent dose chelation group who do rounds with only like 6mg of ALA at every dose.

Katson, my breaks are never that bad that I need to wait 11 days. One round I waited 5 days, but that was because I chelated for 5.

I agree with gdawson. In fact, I wonder if perhaps it is too soon for ALA for you. If your body/blood mercury isn't lowered before taking ALA it can actually pull mercury back into the brain. I don't want to scare you, but maybe a few rounds of DMSA before ALA would help.

Something I think gdawson? posted on another board. magnesium succinate ? Anyone tried this? It sounded interesting (if I read it right) thx k

I have been thinking about my situation. i first got a reaction from amalgam days after the first placement in '75? I was put on antibiotics...another placement in '84 prompted an mri when I experienced vision abnormalities and arm paralysis, leg dragging. The mri showed 1 lesion. so dx possible ms. Had flares directly after each (2) subsequent amalgam placement over 25yrs. last mri in 2008 was frightening. Brain full of inflamation and 'holes'. Maybe it is too late for chelation?

It is never too late to try to get rid of mercury. The body will start to heal and regenerate after the mercury is gone, but you just gotta go at a pace your body can handle.

I don't think that was me in regards to the magnesium succinate, unless you meant DMSA which is Dimercaptosuccinic acid. In any case Andy Cutler says many people feel better when taking ALA with DMSA, but you would have to do both in very small dosages.

I've never heard of magnesium succinate. I tried to look into it, but didn't come up with much. So I don't know where you may have read this. I saw it in body building formulas, but none of them said what it did.

My husband tried detoxing a few days ago. Now his health is generally okay. He doesn't have any chronic issues like me, so he started on a fairly "high" dose of DMSA of 25mg. He had such a severe reaction that he temporarily lost vision out of his left eye. Needless to say even though he doesn't appear to be mercury sick, he needs to start on a MUCH LOWER dose.

ALA is much stronger than DMSA, so I think you are simply going too fast. On one of the yahoo groups someone had a great analogy as to what this detox is like. They said it is a marathon race where you have to pace yourself for 25 miles. This detox isn't a 500m dash where you have to give it your all right off the start. You have to take your time or you'll have to stop chelating for months until you get better. Can you imagine if someone was in full sprint at the beginning of a marathon? They'd have to stop before reaching the finish line. Starting with "high" doses of ALA and DMSA will force you to stop prematurely.

The DMSA alone at 25mg is enough for me to get ill and I've already done 5 rounds at 15mg. As I said, my husband lost VISION in his left eye on that dose. I can't even IMAGINE how he'd feel on 25mgDMSA and 20mgALA. When I start ALA next month, I will begin with 4mg. It really is that powerful. I just think you are trying to go fast WAY too soon. The feelings of hopelessness and "is it worth it to chelate now" is definitely the mercury. With each round you are pulling too much mercury out and your body can't get rid of it fast enough. Then at the end when the chelator levels fall you are having severe mercury redistribution. The breaks are going to be worse than on round, but you'd shouldn't need 11 days in between.

As I said before I think it is too soon for ALA. Your body obviously still have a LOT of mercury stores in the blood and tissues. These must be cleared out before starting ALA or you could get worse.

I'd divide the DMSA capsules into third's (8mg) and take that for at least 5 rounds. See how you feel. Until the breaks become better (4 day breaks rather than needing 11 days), you don't want to increase it. Then you can consider adding in the ALA. I'd start under 10mg.

I am very concerned for you and think you may be harming yourself more with these doses. I hope you aren't offended by my posts.

This is a cross post from AMC, and Andy answered it there, so I'm going to delete this from FDC, so the discussion on it doesn't get split up.--------Jackie

In frequent-dose-chelation@yahoogroups.com Joseph wrote:

I emailed this to Andy, who advised that I post it here.

Chelating agents (interview with Dr. Ray Peat, Ph.D.)

There are several methods of mercury (and other heavy metal)
detoxification. If you decide to have your amalgams replaced with
gold, porcelain or composites, choose a dentist who is trained to do
it. Otherwise your symptoms can become much worse or even
life-threatening due to unsafe removal procedures which increase
ingestion of mercury and its vapors. Also, removal of silver
amalgams does not remove body stores. These must be removed by
chelation therapy. Substances that bind mercury and other metals are
called chelating agents and there are both oral and intravenous
chelation therapies available.

Unfortunately, most chelating substances can have very poisonous
effects. Common chelating agents such as EDTA, used both
intravenously and orally, can remove heavy metals including from the
bone, such as lead. The problem is, after removal from the bones, the
EDTA dumps the lead into the brain and the kidneys. Chemet (succimer,
or 2,3-dimercaptosuccinic acid abbreviated DMSA), is a dangerous
chelating agent which was approved by the FDA in January 1991. DMSA
is very similar to another chelating agent called BAL, or British
Antilewisite (2,3- dimercaptopropanol). The problem is, just like
EDTA, both DMSA and BAL remove lead from the bones and deposit it into
the brain and the kidneys. IF the lead is removed before it gets
into the bones, there is no toxic effect with EDTA, DMSA or BAL but
why use something dangerous? There is a review article in J. of
Chem. Ed., in the early 1970's which summarizes the research in 3-4
pages and references the original research.

Estrogen makes you overproduce collagen and stimulates soft tissue
deposition of calcium.

Thyroid makes you retain magnesium and dump abnormal calcium and
estrogen. Thus, thyroid is similar to chelation.

Surfaces of blood vessels work like an ion exchange resin. If you run
calcium over the membranes, the membranes will suck up calcium.

To safely remove heavy metals, use succinic acid as the sodium or
magnesium salt (sodium or magnesium succinate). It is classified as a
food, is an antioxidant (anti-free radicals) and stimulates
respiration in addition to being a chelator. Succinic acid will suck
out Al non-toxically. Magnesium or sodium + succinic acid should
chelate mercury. No side effects.

The last resort is penicillamine. Good for all heavy metals but not
as safe as succinic acid.

According to Dr. Ray Peat, succinic acid as the sodium or magnesium
salt (sodium or magnesium succinate) is the safest chelating agent,
with penicillamine being next. In the 1930's, Szent-Gyorgyi showed
that succinate stimulated cell respiration. In the 1980's other
researchers reported that it stimulates pregnenolone production in the
adrenal glands. Succinic acid is a good food, is crucial to the Krebs
cycle (essential for energy), speeds it up by stimulating respiration
and is thus similar to the thyroid hormone. Pure succinic acid or
succinate (not DMSA) can be used either orally or intravenously. It
has no harmful effects to the mitochondria (as does EDTA). Succinate
has been shown to remove aluminum and lead. There is no reason not to
believe that it will also take out other heavy metals, including
mercury and iron, but I have no references on this. It would be great
if someone would do a study on this. Peat says succinic acid works
orally so I would choose to do oral rather than intravenous chelation
therapy. His recommended dosage is 200 mg twice daily but please put
the succinic acid in a capsule, otherwise, it will suck calcium out of
your teeth. Peat says that it may take a week or so to clean out the
heavy metals.

Succinate does not suck calcium from the blood, but helps carry it.
Plus, it stimulates respiration and helps deposit calcium in bones
while taking it out of soft tissues. It simulates carbon dioxide
production which increases oxygen in the body. CaCO3 is the starting
material for hydroxyappetite (bone substance).

A high sodium diet (sea salt, not table salt) prevents kidney damage
from heavy metals. Other good chelating agents include, orange juice
and coffee and intravenous (not oral) ascorbic acid. Ascorbate is
better used i.v. than orally because it can irritate the live and the
colon and cause diarrhea. Also, ascorbic acid must be pharmaceutical
grade because most sources are contaminated with heavy metals due to
the method of manufacture. Also 90% of ascorbic acid now comes from
China. The citric acid in orange juice is a good chelator. The
caffeine in coffee helps get the lead and cadmium out of the kidneys.

Succinate and mercury (Hg) , iron (Fe)

Does it remove Hg? Experiments used Al (aluminum). Al behaves the
same as Hg but this is only an assumption. It is proven that
succinate removes Fe.

Toxicity of DMPS and DMSA

Question: Does the body quickly or gradually get rid of DMPS or DMSA
chelating agents? I have many people who nearly died when they took
DMPS or DMSA. But, I should think that the body would eventually
detox it. What do you think?


I completely botched this attempt at posting, but I think this is the info. I had written a reply but botched it too.

Ok, Now that this attempt at cut/paste is over, I want to thank you ..Birdlady and gdawson for your encouragement/info.
What do you think of this info? k

I don't know enough about it to really comment.