You can link to this page using this simple URL:
http://urlbam.com/ha/M001A


Here are some interesting pictures showing symbology in modern politics. When you understand how important symbology is to occultism, then you will realize the significance of these pictures.


What's Wrong With This Picture?







The GOP Symbol: Then and Now.

Can you spot the change?







Did you know that the Republicans changed the stars in their official elephant logo to three stars downward in the year 2000, the very year in which Skull & Bones George Bush was "elected" President? This Republican logo is the traditional elephant logo as this book front page cover demonstrates. The book is entitled, "The Pictorial History of the Republican Party", by Beryl Frank, published in 1980. As you can see, the stars on this elephant logo are the same as the traditional stars on an American Flag. On the GOP's official website the stars are facing downward. Click here to see. GOP.com.



Washington D.C. From The Air



Here we have an enclosed pentagram, a six-sided "chalis & cup" star, the gnostic owl (blue), the all-seeing eye atop the pyramid, and an inverted cross (green).

The inverted cross is a favorite catholic symbol that helps reveal the deeper symbology of catholicism.



You will also spot some political figures revealing their secrets by the symbols they wear. In this photo, Chelsea Clinton wears her inverted cross in public.





What's Wrong With This Picture?





This toy is available from the GOP store.


Other Things That May Interest You

The Clinton Chronicles (video)[/b]
This is a mind-boggling video revealing the corruption, conspiracy, and murder surrounding Whitewater. This is just the kind of information you'll never hear on the news.

[b]Halliburton and KBR (video)
An astonishing video about the abuses of these war-contract companies. Please watch this all the way through as it gets more intense as it progresses.

12 Soldiers Electrocuted in Iraq by Halliburton (KBR) Negligence (Video)[/b]
Amazing and sad story about 12 deaths probably due to neglect by the large politically-connected government contractor Halliburton and KBR.

[b]Halluburton Watch
A watchdog group doing an excellent job of exposing the serious issues (crimes?) committed by this politically-connected (to say the least) military contractor.

Russ, I have never seen an "inverted" cross related to Catholicism in anything EVER!! And I wonder if you are using a picture that has in fact been "adjusted". Because this is the most bizzare thing I have witnessed yet. I have been a Catholic for over ten years now and nothing whatsoever of this kind has ever been seen or related to Catholicism or the Pope. And something like this would stand out a mile and it does. If I'd seen this, I'd have been stunned. I have NEVER seen this and I have certainly seen him plenty of times on TV and even live when I went to Rome (the Vatican).

Please be careful you are using undoctored pictures when representing another person's faith. I have also come across plenty of ongoing anti-catholic propoganda on the internet, an absolute bounty of it. Perfect for anybody to use and abuse to misrepresent a person's faith. I have contacted the owner of a website when seeing horrible and completely false statements made on the Catholic faith and "corrected" this person. Even when she knew the truth, she refused to remove the lie from her website, because it suited her purposes and she wished to continue mispresenting the faith.

Coming on here and seeing this is actually for me, most upsetting. This man carried around a burden of suffering himself for many many years and never lost his faith. Prayed for over 4 hours daily and carried around a crucifix (NOT inverted either) with a Christ full of suffering himself and continually spoke of Christ and pointed the youth always towards Him. Kept strong on all aspects of the gospel, even in the light of the liberal hatred towards him because of it. Gave the downtrodden the comforting words of Christ and was an inspiration.

This is perfect in this day and age to distort a person's faith, whether by pictures, or by words. It can be easily done.

seriously......again, not meaning to jump on a band wagon, but some serious lines are being crossed... Perhaps the accuser should take a look at himself. (I'm with Bex)

Thank you Jeanie for kindly standing up for me, even though you are not a Catholic.

Honestly Jeanie, nobody I know, nor myself has EVER been witness to an inverted cross like this in relation to Catholicism (except occultism which I have seen before). My father is 76 years of age and been a Catholic most of his life. Absolutely devoted to Christ and any mention or any appearance of any inverted cross around Catholicism of the Pope would have also been picked up very quickly. He's fully aware of such an occult symbol and deliberate demonic misrepresentation and insult to Christ on the cross by doing it "upside down". Satan adores to twist and do things backwards. This is NOT a representation at all of my faith, but a sick MISrepresentation.

I almost feel tempted to send this to people on my email list who are in the same church and ask them if they have seen anything like it. Some have been witnesses to Pope John Paul II in person and would have also picked up on this very quickly. It stands out.

After this, I am not quite so trusting anymore . But it's been a good reality check for me and a wake up call not to believe everything that is presented here. There are plenty of people out there that are amazingly adept at making someone's belief look "evil" and in fact, you can do it to anybody. You can also pick bits and pieces out of revelation and join it up and proclaim that it meant this or that (again making someone's faith look 'evil').

There is a famous evangelist on television that spent much of his years of preaching to also misrepresent and demonise the Catholic church. He finally started doing some honest investigation/research himself, instead of buying into anticatholic propaganda and regurgitating it and was ashamed and finally made a public apology for doing what he did. He has not become a Catholic, but now holds up the Catholic Catechism as a WONDERFUL companion to the bible. Completely backed up by scripture. Many Catholics tune into him and his wife each week, as do others from many other faiths.

If a person wishes to get it from the horses mouth so to speak, they would do well to get a copy of The Catholic Catechism and read it. Then, whatever criticisms they have, would be much more honest, than if they simply decide to take someone's else word for it and pass on anticatholic propaganda. I'd say, be very careful that one is not bearing false witness and deliberately demonising a person's faith. But certainly, I can do nothing to stop it, and often I've seen it on this forum and let it go. It gets tiring.

Ya, I replied to a thread called "This is Why I Call Them "Rock Star Politicians" Where Russ posted a video that was full of altered pictures, and it was related to the New World Order if I remember correctly.

Its not a good thing to do if you want people to take you seriously...

Well gdawson, I think it was necessary for me to be on the end of it. Had I not? I may not have questioned things as much. There are serious frauds and manipulations out there and sadly it will indeed convince many, who may not have the time or interest to research it truthfully.

Once you dirty somebody's name or faith? It is very difficult to undo and tiresome to try and do so. I don't store alot of this kind of stuff on my computer to spew out at any opportunity either. Nor do I have the time and material to counteract it all. There are experts on doing this kind of stuff and I'd not have a show.

I can only say, once again, go to the source of our beliefs and read there instead. That way, the criticisms will indeed at least be based on the actual source and ones concerns at all, are at least from the "horses mouth". Every practise and aspect is there and the scriptual/traditonal reason for it. Had I not seen and read that? I too would have been an easy target for manipulative slander.

I also do not base my faith on the Judases within my church. They also mispresent it and do much to undermine it. Thankfully we have many who stand up for the fundamentals of our faith, regardless of the hate and scandal. However in the minority we maybe.

Well apparently the republican elephant's stars are upside down, and I think that may have happened a while ago...they were right side up at some point...

But the upside down crosses still come off as most likely modified, as I don't know how they would get away with that one as I was aware since I was little that an upside cross was a symbol of Satan.

Well gdawson, one thing is certain. The Catholic church does NOT favour upside crosses as has been said on this thread (or passed on). The only explanation for the "inverted" cross on the papal chair would be to symbolise the upside crucifixion of St. Peter (the first pope). St. Peter did not want to be crucified in the same manner as Our Lord because he said he was not worthy. So St. Peter insisted on being crucified upside-down.

For Catholics, The Pope is the Successor of St. Peter. Therefore the reason for this unusual and isolated depiction would symbolise the humility and sacrifice of the first Pope. If it was meant for a symbol of "satanism", what a contradiction in terms it would be, to have that and then a Pope walking around stooped with parkinson's disease leaning on a giant cross (not inverted) with a hanging, wretched depiction of Christ.

To depict this in such a manner (whether manipulated photo or not), to deliberately demonise both the Pope and the Catholic church and faith, does a grave injustice towards all Catholics, and the person maybe in danger of breaking the commandment of bearing false witness. And there are plenty out there seeking to do just that. No Catholic church or person that I know would endorse such a Satanic practise or symbol - unless of course there is a very good reason. Although the upside down cross typically represents "satan's mockery of Christ's crucifixion", it does not do so exclusively! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_St._Peter

However, if anybody out there is in doubt and believes that the inverted cross is a favourite satanic symbol of Catholics, perhaps they would like to visit their nearest Catholic church, Catholic retails shops and look around and let me know when you find an inverted cross. Check out the Catechism and let me know if inverted crosses for Satanic purposes are endorsed .....certainly, the mockery of the upside down cross (outside of Saint Peter's upside crucifixion), is not a favoured symbol of any true Catholic, the Pope included.

Just a correction to one of my above statements:



I meant to state that there would HAVE to be a very good reason for an "inverted" cross", not very good reason to endorse a satanic practice or symbol! Just wanted to make that clear in case that was misunderstood.

I myself have not been witness to the inverted latin cross and have never seen it anywhere! But I understand that it apparently does exist. Sadly, the reasons behind it are unfortunately and deliberately taken out of context and distorted. And this is what I mean by the necessity to do ones homework and make sure that "homework" is not tarnished by an anti-Catholic agenda.

Bex,

I certainly don't mean to offend you by posting this picture, but I remember seeing the video this picture was taken from some time ago on television.

I have no doubt that you are a devout Christian, and I have no doubt that many Catholics are very devout as well.

I will continue and say that Mormons are among the nicest people I have met. They are family-oriented, kind, and have been some of the nicest people I've had acquaintance with.

I will continue and say that Free Masons can also be great people. They can be community-oriented and beneficent and great family-oriented helpers to society.

However...

Problems arise when you take a look at deep doctrines. When you take the time to do this, you begin to see the true nature of any organization. It is as Christ said, "Seek and ye shall find".

The same can be said about the relationships people in many different nations.

Do you really believe that most of the people in Russia want to have war with the U.S.?

Do you really believe that most governments carry out the will of the common people?

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Reichsmarshall Herman Goering, Nuremberg Trials, 18 April 1946.

Should it surprise us that the only country that voted against the Lisbon Treaty is the only country that makes this decision by popular vote while all other countries that approved it have no such popular representation?

I know very well that some part of truth offends us all. The difference between children and adults is our ability to examine ourselves and overcome our initial emotional reaction to an offense and then change ourselves, not expecting truth to bow its knees to our emotional ambitions.

Yes, truth offends us all.

If we maintain the personal humility that enables us to be gracefully broken, we shall find grace indeed. But if we stubbornly oppose truth in pursuit of our emotional ambitions, we find a different fate.

"Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."
(Luke 20:18)

My beloved grandmother lived next door to the catholic church in my home town. She worked tirelessly in the church for decades. She devoted herself to the people and the institution there more then anyone I've ever seen or known. When she died, her entire house and connected apartments and land were all willed to the church. Her house is today, the catholic store.

My first memories of "church" were Sunday school in that same building. I was christened in a catholic church. Most of my religious step family also attends and has lifelong devotion to the same.

Bearing all this in mind, I know well that the people of the church or the beneficent acts of the church, or of the mormons, or of the masons, display a grand show of helps to family and community.

Starting with my own roots in the Christian church, I came to learn that the Bible reveals what we need to know to discern the times, yet, the modern church has fallen away. The apostasy and apathy are mind-boggling in relation to scriptural mandates, but, I attended for years, and benefited as well.

Studying mormonism for nearly 2 years enabled me to see the amazing parallels with Scottish Rite Masonry, which are shockingly parallel to Jewish kabbalistic mysticism, an art wholly repugnant to the Bible.

Studying the Bible for decades has enabled me to spot the fundamental issues in which these institutions are in direct opposition to the Bible. Again, I'm not speaking about the common people. I'm speaking about the deep doctrine, the root, the core. Remember, this deep doctrine is written by the leaders.

The pope is claimed to be the vicar ("in place of") Christ, in Christ's absence. My Biblical studies have shown the the Holy Spirit is the Vicar of Christ. Satan was the most popular Biblical character who wanted to sit on the mercy seat, that is, he wanted to be in place of Christ—that is—antechrist ("in place of Christ").

I have studied both sides of the opinions dealing with the Biblical prophecies about the city on seven hills, and have found the one condemning Rome far superior. The declaration of Vatican City as the third supra-state by Reagan is a revealing milestone in Bible prophecy. The two other related entities are Washington, D.C. and the financial district of London. All entities centrally sporting the infamous obelisk that is so significant in occultism.

Books have been written on the subject, and for those who are truly truth seekers, they are worth reading. Let's put our bias aside and seek the truth on these matters.

I love and admire catholics. I have loved and missed mormons. I know masons who are beloved by friends and family as well. Persons from all of these groups have been great contributors to society and anchors to community.

Let us all grow in unity by confessing our brotherhood and sisterhood to each other, not to some named system that continues to defend it's name and position by making lofty claims. (There is only One deserving to make a lofty claim.)

And if we desire to know if these lofty claims are true, then seek out the truth behind them. I have, and I have found that when the veil of the temple was torn, there was no longer a barrier between us and God. There was only a Bridge that enables us all to enjoy a personal relationship with the Creator who has sought our best interest from the beginning.

In my studies, I have found that most lofty systems, no, nearly all lofty systems, do little more in time but become devices used by evil to divide us so deeply that evil can then use our emotional ties and connections to our beloved organizations and lofty systems (idols) to cause us to kill each other, steal from each other, and destroy each other.

This very truth runs so deeply that even the Bible itself prophecies—in no uncertain terms—that the church itself would become corrupt in the end times and be used to accomplish the purposes of evil.

Yes, I believe once we begin to call ourselves by the name of some organization, we risk our own destruction in due time, even as we witness it happening today.

The best thing we can do is call ourselves Christians to display the fact that we have been blessed with sufficient passion and discipline to put in the time to study (knowledge...), and that we have been blessed with the insight (...leading to faith) to discover the one true Path to the Creator.

We need to think critically ("A spiritual man discerns—judges—all things."), remove all idols from us, and most of all, remember that our brotherhood and sisterhood is defined by the torn veil that enabled us all to enter the holy-of-holies and commune with Yahweh without any need for any human intervention, save One.


If I have posted any material here that is incorrect or inaccurate, I am glad for people to point it out to me. I will look into it and find out if these things are so, and any material that is in error will be removed.

Likewise, I expect anyone who finds they wrongfully claimed that material is inaccurate, to confess their mistake and take action in their own life to correct it.


I am ready and willing to have friendly conversation about any points made in my above posts in an organized and prudent way.


Concerning the Ron Paul video, we need to realize the nearly all people in positions of power (or who have the ability to influence) are playing roles of "controlled opposition".

Ron Paul could have blown open the vote fraud felony that was blatantly taking place, but instead, he chose to bow out "gracefully" enabling this fraud to go unnoticed by most people. (This is exactly the kind of situation that controlled opposition is used for.)

We have to realize that all sides of nearly all positions—both good and bad—are controlled by the same "side" today. This is where the term "controlled opposition" comes from.

All things are not as they seem.

When we were studying politics in the mid 90's, we found that "conservative" talk show host Rush Limbaugh was doing nothing more than playing the role of a "social counterbalance". This is a person who voices the opinion of the "opposition" loudly. This "voicing" actually has the effect of neutralizing those who agree with the position.

Yes, the fact is, when you hear your opinion being announced loudly and clearly, you are much less apt to get involved in supporting your position because you "feel" like something is being done in favor of your position. Your anger is appeased. Of course, this belief (that something is being done in support of your position) simply enables your opposition to overpower your position because of your inactivity.

The line from the movie "V for Vendetta" is one of the truest things ever spoken about the political relationship:

"They (the opposition) know you better than you know yourself."

This is true and enables them to control you. This is why I often encourage people to know themselves.

Concerning the video showing Ron Paul performing a masonic handshake: I watched this video many times before posting it. I saw no indication that it had been altered.

Whether a person likes Ron Paul or not, I believe everyone should have the right to know if he publically shakes hands using the masonic handshake. The fact that he does this is not necessarily stating that he is a bad guy, but this information should—nevertheless—not be suppressed (The same stands true about the catholic inverted cross). To do so would make us the very thing we despise: Liars.

People should be allowed to have all the evidence and then make up their own minds.

If anyone can show me evidence that the video has been manipulated to show this handshake, I will gladly remove the video. Far be it from me to promote false information.

I am interested in one thing and I have only one agenda:

Truth.

gdawson6 said...

(emphasis mine)

Today, they are blatantly spraying the skies with poisons and killing people, yet, the majority don't "notice". How do they get away with that?

The catholic church is replete with occult symbolism, as is the mormon church and masonic temples. How do they get away with that?


We are all blind to some degree. Part of growing up is removing this blindness.
(This includes me, which is why I am always open to correction.)

Losing our blindness is not an easy thing to do, yet, God expects us to be courageous men and women.


These are pictures I took today. Most people write this off as normal. I have been watching the skies for 30 years. This is far from normal, yet, they get away with it.









gdawson6 said...


In that post, located here:

Post 38933

You said...



Photoshop is a program used for modifying still images. (I use it myself and have it installed on this very computer). The post in question begins with a video that initially contains Ron Paul performing a masonic handshake... twice.

There is nothing else in that video that I can see (easily) that has been modified. If you see it, just let me know at what time it occurs. Then, it should be a relatively small matter to find the original photos and see if they have been modified.

I will also add that I have seen most of the people in the video showing the "goat" sign (there are other more accurate names for it) with their hands in video, and on television.

When you understand the reason for the symbology used by these people and organizations, you can gain a larger picture of what they are doing.

In short, they publically show symbols to let others in the "organization" know that they are one of them. It's just like a mason accused who stands before a mason judge. The accused will display covert symbols and gain favor from the judge. Ever wonder why so many high-level drug dealers get off so easy? Biblical sorcery (pharmakia) is alive and well today.


Please remember that I don't mean to offend anyone in posting what I believe to be true, just as you post what you believe to be true. I know that truth is sometimes offensive to us, but I also believe that truth is more important than our feelings, so I post what I believe to be true hoping that people will regard truth more then their own feelings as well. In other words, I'm having faith in you.


Don't let our idols divide us.

This depends very much on "whose truth" you are gaining your information from regarding the Catholic church Russ.

I realise you are not setting out to offend "me" personally. But let us not forget, as well informed as you are biblically, you may not be as well informed enough about the Catholic teachings to make judgement calls. And that is where the problem maybe. I am not disputing your biblical knowledge Russ, you'd wipe the floor with me I'm sure. But I encourage people to make sure they get their information from BOTH sources, before making statements, or they may, in the end, be making assumptions and false accusations. You have one solid source, the bible. But in order to use the bible as a testing rod for the Catholic church and teachings, you must also have the Catholic Catechism as the next source for your information. Having one without the other sets anybody up for misinformation/misrepresentations, even if they mean well.
Even the most "informed" and well-meaning wise individual is tainted by human error/sin and is, unfortunately, limited.

If I sat here and saw a picture of an inverted cross and the satanic reference, which is totally contrary to the Catholic church's meaning, do you think it would be a good thing for me to remain silent? Or do you think that as a Catholic myself, I ought to give OUR reasons? Surely it is not preferable to you to ignore that and instead base your "evidence" and "study" on anti-catholic propaganda and statements to the contrary?

No Russ, "truth" does not offend me and I have seen that line used on another forum by someone else. If truth offended me, I'd probably walk away from the sobering words throughout the bible, by Christ (as many do) and/or stamp my feet and decide to water it down or twist it into something that makes me feel a lot better about myself (many do that also). This does not mean I am always faithful to the word, nor does it mean I find Christ's truths easy. But He said it and so it is. Regardless of whether my ego handles it or not. So you comments here are incorrect regarding my defense of the Catholic church and totally incorrect regarding myself as a person.

Now, when somebody takes beliefs from somebody's faith out of context and misrepresents them, or uses the Judas's within the Catholic church to label it on a whole, then yes I'll be offended and rightly so. There is most definitely Masons within the church. There is liberalism within the church. Not always easy to catch, not always easy to prove. Does this begin to describe those being faithful to the teachings as being the same? Do we judge Christ by Judas? Anywhere Christ is, the Devil follows. Seeking to undo, distort and tempt. Where best to do the damage if one wishes to undermine? Within the church itself. I have listened to some wonderful, inspiring and faithful priests who put up with the snide, lofty comments of their fellow liberals. Why are these guys made fun of and often despised? because they refuse to bend and compromise and remain faithful to the church's teachings. I thank God for those men. The holy spirit prevails in those who are obedient/faithful, regardless of the attacks of the Devil.

Russ, may I also remind you, you are not the only one that has done extensive study on the bible. This includes the theologians within the Catholic church, (The Pope Himself) and goodness knows how many others, which I dare say, may just outdo you. There is a TV evangelist that has studied the bible so extensivey, that I would challenge you to outdo him also. His name is Jack Van Impe. Wonderful man who has spent his life preaching the word of God. No he's not a Catholic, but he is fully aware of the anti Catholic propaganda and bless him, has exposed it fully on his programme and made some difficult admissions and apologies himself. He holds up the Catholic Catechism on his programme and refers to it often. Why? Because it is fully backed up by scripture the whole way.

Now, if it is about truth, study and evidence, you would be making sure you are well researched enough to get your facts straight and your source's pure. And as I said, unless you have the bible and the Catechism both and have gone through the beliefs and traditions and read the scriptual back-ups and explanations, you are probably not informed.

Let us consider Christ and Saint Peter. It was Christ who instituted the church with Saint Peter appointed to lead the church. With the guidance of the Holy Spirit and Christ as the head of the church. They are in fact servants of Christ and stewards, not the "boss" so to speak. He entrusted this first to Saint Peter (we believe the first Pope) and from there, the position of "Pope" continued throughout the ages and up to this day. Papal history can in fact be traced back to Saint Peter Himself.

Please check out this link here which describes it much better than myself. As I personally feel this is a very good and faithful explanation.
Papal infallibility, God's not man's.

The holy spirit leads the church, not man. The corruption within the church throughout the ages, should have brought it down and destroyed it long ago. However, as it is not run by mere "man" and not surprising that it has survived regardless and remained one united church (even with all the internal divisions/arguments). Even though it may walk it's calvary and be attacked from all sides, and may even be crucified and considered dead and gone, Christ promised that even the gates of Hell would not prevail against it.

The Catholic church has been accused of many things, all of which I had heard long before I became a Catholic. I did not see any of these accusations play out amongst the Catholics I had met, nor did I locate it in the Catechism, so for me, I went in with a non judgemental attitude. My journey was personal and wonderful. The Catholic faith and the inspiration of fellow Catholics, were for me, a big part of that. Christ prevails in our church, and everytime I go there, the gospel is the forefront. One cannot stop a person from misrepresenting or misjudging the church, but we can only pass on the Catechism and ask them to read for themselves.

Should I have seen the things it has been falsey accused of within the teachings of the Catechism and foundation of the church? I would not have lasted, nor would I have remained. Judas's do not put me off remaining where I am, regardless of the poison within the church.

Russ, about the Rock Star Politicians...the opening video with Ron Paul was obviously real...but roughly 1/2 the pictures showed during the music looked slightly off to me...and touching up pictures in photoshop is part of my side-jobs so I can easily see when something looks like it hasn't been fixed perfectly. I know thats not much proof, and I guess I would have to find the originals to disprove it...but as a person who has done serious touch ups in photoshop I think they could have done a better job.

With the upside down cross pictures...I could easily reconvert the necklace to be right side up and it would look just as real, even in the close up. That would probably take 5 to 10 minutes.

I'm not saying that there isn't great evil in the world...but who knows the real purpose of chemtrails? They are obviously toxic from my research, but most technology is... I do see your point because it is amazing that they get away with it but chemtrails are more subtle IMO than upside crosses behind the pope...as I even knew what an upside cross meant as a little child and I was raised in a completely non-religious family.

Russ, at this point, honestly, you seem to think everyone else is wrong and YOU are right. On everything. You are pretty cynical. I don't think you have a right to promote something like that on the Pope. Nor do you have a right to paint untruths about my church. I've got a question for you. Since you have it all together, know who's right and who's wrong and are always right, are you celibate? You aren't married. Its a valid question. You say evolutionists are that way cause they are immoral. Are you? It sounds to me anymore, that you yourself are fitting your truths to how you personally want to live. You have attacked pretty much everyone on here with your accusations. I can't believe we're on here to even take it thinking about it. You think you're promoting the truth, but how can you say you are being responsible or loving for that matter? I think you are full of ****. And i'm saying that out of love.....because i care for you!!! Now may I sell you some supplements?

Bex,

I understand your frustration. The catholic church gets attacked a lot.

I also have seen the goodness of your heart and how you've given to the people here on the forum. You've done so much good and helped so many people.

(No doubt, the catholic church also does good. It has many beneficent sub-organizations and does good work all around the world. The mormon church and masons do good work as well.)

It is our job as Christians to teach truth and reveal deception, and the best I can say without writing a book is that the core—not the common people—of the catholic church is clearly—to be and based on my research—the ante-church. It is the "system" that the Bible refers to when it talks about the city on seven hills, and this is not the only proof text I rely on. This is just one example. These things are very clear to me, and I am not blinded by a love of or an affiliation to anyone except Christ and the Bible

God lead me supernaturally to the Church of Christ when I was soon to become a Christian. You may have read my testimony here on this forum.

I later discovered that the Church of Christ is scripturally off in deeper issues, but it was a great place to gain the fundamentals, and I did. God led me there under no uncertain terms, and it benefited me, but I eventually left when I grew all that I could there.

So you see, the COC served its purpose in that it helped me get a good fundamental base from which to study, for they are very strict about fundamentals. They do have strange ideas about deeper prophecy though.

The catholic may also by used the same way of God. Many people (hopefully) get a base there, and then when they become more educated, they move on.

I'm truly glad that you know that I have no purpose to offend. I don't and it's important to me that you know that.



Honestly, I have studied the deeper doctrine of catholicism over a long period of time, and the problems I see are many. I am not making hasty statements.

I also applaud you for putting links up and defending your position, because you are defending something that you believe to be misunderstood. But I will not discount my position either. I have done a lot of homework on the issues I speak about. When others are out playing games and having fun, I am often studying.

That's what this forum is good at. You state your position. I'll state mine. Then, we both have to have enough faith in God and in His ability to guide the onlookers that they will be guided into truth; That they will be able to discern the truth from untruth.

If you believe Christ is who He said He was, then you and I are brother/sister regardless of what organization you attend for worship. It's only important that we both continue growing, and challenging each other on deeper issues is part of that growing process. In fact, that's why God put us here on Earth along with evil (which also challenges us). It's not a mistake. It's God's way of putting us through the fire which purifies gold. It all has a purpose.



I would not judge an organization by its attendees. This is why I continually refer to deeper doctrine. We're looking at the core of the organization including it's leaders, not the attendees.



You will find that the most common cause of error in one's understanding of truth comes not from how well someone knows the Bible. It comes from what idols someone holds.

Idols blind.

Part of the search for truth is to let go of all presuppositions, emotions, and personal agendas. This is part of what Christ means by denying ourselves.

The beauty of truth is that babes are sometimes more equipped to see it as they are not blinded by idols. No one is exempt from this source of blindness and we must all continually check ourselves.

I'm sure Jack means well, but he also has a financial interest in not offending the catholic church. Has this become a blinding idol to him? I don't know, but if his position on the catholic church is scripturally inaccurate, then it is entirely possible. It happens to us adults all the time.



This is a great example, in my opinion, of scripture taken out of context. The catholic proof text for this belief is fundamentally flawed, in my opinion.

The Holy Spirit is the current leader of the Church. This is how God is closer to us than a brother. This is why we are the temple now. He is in us and guides us. The holy of holies has been opened to us and there is no need for a vicar. We have the real Thing in us.

A lot could be written on this, and we can go on if you like, but I simple believe this is man attempting to put himself in the position of God. As I stated previously, deep catholic doctrine considers the pope to be the ante-Christ; "Ante" meaning "in place of".

The mormon church does the same type of thing with their church leaders and apostles.



Please know that I am not speaking about corruption. I'm speaking about deep doctrine. This is where you find the true nature of organizations.



The Bible says, "A spiritual man judges all things." We truly need to be careful knowing that deception is everywhere.



And you will not see them. They are not shown to the common people because most people would leave the church and that would be financially devastating for the organization. You can begin to see the true nature of an organization by looking at its deep doctrine.

---

I would be sure to carefully examine both sides of this issue, and do you best to have no bias, in as much as that is possible.

All I can say in all honesty is that my studies have very clearly shown me that the root and core of the catholic is a false church, an "ante" (in place of) church.

If you have found differently, great. Post links. Display information, and have enough faith in people to let them decide. Just don't let your personal connection to this organization divide our brotherhood/sisterhood, as that's exactly what idols are designed to do; Exactly.

I don't doubt that you and many of your catholic friends are true Christians.

Christ warned us that as we grow in the knowledge of the truth, that we would have to make many difficult decisions.

gdawson6,



Excellent. Then I believe it's a good thing—a real blessing—that we are able to watch Ron perform a masonic handshake (twice). I personally believe that this is vital as we who have studied the state of secret societies today have to be aware of how completely they have saturated both sides of every organization.

Remember: "Controlled opposition" is their MO.



When you questioned this originally, I looked back through the entire video (as I did before I originally posted it), and honestly, I do not see a single evidence of "obvious" manipulation.

I have been doing image processing for about 15 years now (besides being a computer programmer, hardware designer, and website designer), and in my opinion, I don't see any clear evidence of manipulation.

Again, point out to me specific shots and I will be happy to look them over.



Not true.

Image manipulation leaves artifacts. You know this. You don't need originals to prove it. Just point out which shots you believe to be faked and we should be able to artifacts.



With all due respect, I completely disagree.

Manipulating images in a way that shows little evidence of tampering is very difficult, especially when they involve gradients close up.

This is why graphic designers get paid so much. Clean graphic manipulation is meticulous, and very time-consuming.

It's easy to manipulate images. It very hard to do it without leaving obvious artifacts.



The chemtrail project, despite being literally in our faces, is a obviously a secret project, so knowing the true intent is not easy.

What is easy is knowing what they contain and that they are harmful, and when we know what they contain (which we do), then we can make some fairly good guesses as to what they are intended to do, and many have.



Good point.

Two responses here.

First, I believe that chemtrails are not more subtle than the upside down cross. Chemtrails are huge, enormous, and displayed openly in numerous cities across the world. Everyone who simply looks up can see them. The inverted cross is more subtle because it's not often displayed, and only then for a short time. Furthermore, many people do not know what it means.

Second, you say that "even you" knew what an upside down cross "means". I think a surprising number of people don't, and even then, the catholic church comes up with an explanation that it is the cross of Peter.

Having studied these secret societies for some time, I know that they often make excuses for the symbols they display to the common people.

Remember, these symbols are not meant to be understood by the common people. They are the method in which co-conspirators communicate with each other, identifying themselves. They excuses to the common people are just that, excuses. They don't care what you think about the symbols. They are not for you.

I had this exact same experience with the mormon church.

I pointed the myriad of occult symbols that exist on their temples and in various other places, and they just made "commoner" excuses for them.

I know what they really mean and I know God well enough to know that He graciously allows us to see them openly so we can know who is who in this deception. God is very kind that way.

These symbols are taken very seriously by occultists and they believe that these symbols have power. In fact, occultists put their faith in these symbols. They use them to gain power.

My faith is in Yahweh: The God of the Bible.

The only power I have is the power God gives me. I am not to seek power in this life, but righteousness through Emmanuel: "God with us".

Again, I don't mean to offend, but I do have to speak the truth as I understand it, and I provide this forum for others to openly do the same, even if it differs from my understanding.

There are a lot of good people here. We can learn from each other, so let us reason together and all will benefit. Again, this is the purpose of this forum.

I do (as do many) appreciate your input, even if we disagree on some things.

Jeanie,



It's not about me. It's never been about me. I am nothing more than what God allows me to be.

It's about truth. I only do my best to study and reveal truth for the benefit of others. This is my greatest passion in life: Helping others understand truth and to see them grow and flourish as a result.



Honestly, I'm not.

It's just that there is a lot of evil in the world today—as the Bible predicted—and it's our job to expose it.

You see, that's just the way evil works.

God creates one good thing and evil comes along and offers a smörgåsbord of other "truths" to distract, deceive, and mislead people away from truth.

I don't mean to be cynical at all. The unfortunate truth is that deception is everywhere. I want to help people discern it for their own benefit and protection. I believe that to be part of my "job" in my life.



I think free speech gives us the right to point out deception wherever it exists, and many scholars who have done their homework have come to exactly the same conclusions that I have.

I have as much of a right to point it out as someone else does to oppose me, so long as they are sincere in their position.



I have said nothing untrue about your church.

I studied mormonism for years and have read much of the primary books (Book of Mormon, Peal of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants, an much mormon literature) and find that mormonism is doing the same thing that many other "religions" do; They put man in the place of God.

Following are Biblical quotes that only a good mormon will recognize the significance of:

# "Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
# "Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:39
# "See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy 32:39
# "You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You" 2 Samuel 7:22
# "For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?" 2 Samuel 22:32
# "Yahweh is God; there is no one else." 1 Kings 8:60
# "O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You" 1 Chronicles 17:20
# "For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God" Psalm 18:31
# "Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10
# "‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me." Isaiah 44:6
# "Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none." Isaiah 44:8
# "I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
# "Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah 45:14
# "I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
# "Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
# "I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me" Isaiah 46:9
# "There is one [hen] body and one [hen] Spirit, one [hen] hope, one [hen] Lord, one [hen] faith, one [hen] baptism, one [hen] God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." Ephesians 4:4-6



No. I have not attacked anyone.

I simply have told the truth as I understand it.

I don't offend anyone. I am only a messenger. I am simply compelled to tell the truth regardless of how it feels. The truth is more important than our feelings. Please don't attack the messenger.

It is possible that the truth has offended some, or at least my understanding of it. The question then becomes, is my understanding correct or not.

If not, tell me how and I will research and respond.

My intentions are good and my research has been pretty intensive in the areas in which I speak. There are many things I do not know, and when encountered with these subjects, I just sit quietly and listen.



I commend you for it.

We all should maturely face information that opposes our dearly held beliefs. When we do this, we have the opportunity to deepen our understanding of truth, and then, if we are courageous, to discover and discard our idols that have blinded us.

I encourage all people to explore information that offends us and reap the benefits of the refining process that ensues.

If we find the offending information true, we deepen our understanding and grow. If we find the offending information false, we deepen our understanding and grow.

How can we lose when we study.



Not sure if you're suggesting that my use of this forum to advertise supplements is immoral, but if so, please say it plainly.

If you do, than I will explain to you, as I have explained several times before, that I make much less selling supplements than I would if I charged $2 per hour (much less) for all of the time I put in helping people and maintaining this forum system on which people are free to levy accusations against me.

Search me. If you find any iniquity in me, reveal it to me that I may either purify myself or reveal to you how you yourself have the same.



You are quite a character. I say that in love.



Bex made the point that you cannot judge an organization by the Judas(es) therein. She well says that the integrity of an organization is not dependent on its followers. Therefore, to discredit my ability to know truth based on my moral fortitude is a poor way to judge truth. Nevertheless, the idols we hold to blind us, and so it is important for us to discard our emotional anchors to things of this world.

Nevertheless, if you must know, or if it helps you in some way to have this knowledge, than I will tell you.

Yes, I am celibate. I am a 43 year old virgin, but not without an entourage of lifelong temptation.

Oh.....Russ. You are so sweet..... I mean that. Thanks for all your honest answers. You do have a good heart. And I'm sorry...I am a character sometimes. I AM cynical.... I've dealt with a lot of crap especially the past year or so. My SIL is evil incarnate sometimes I think. But I can't judge the church harshly by her. She joined the same age as me and her mom was an unbelievable character. (Alcoholic in fact). My husband and her went through a lot as kids especially after their dad died so young. I knew their mom before she died, though, and loved her. His sister has never forgiven her. I think that is half her problem. She tries, but I seem to bring out the worst in her... (And she is an unbelievable control freak due, I believe to being the oldest in a family as an adult child of an alcoholic. I on the other hand, while not controlling do resist being controlled like a mule : ) I guess after saying that that I myself have some forgiving to do.

I'm researching the masonic issue right now, but having taken out my endowments and having been to the temple many many times and having performed these "rites" if you want to call them that (although not what they are), I understand what they are and don't see a problem with them. I feel so close to God when I am in there. Its the most uplifting thing I do. Its like a piece of heaven. There is nothing immoral that goes on in there, I assure you. I do hope that no one thinks anything along the nature of the female worship goes on in there. Nothing sexual....However, having said that, it is a most romantic religion. Women are respected and revered. I like that. I haven't actually been in a while. I need to go.

It is so special that you are still a virgin Russ....It can't be easy. I waited till I was 25 and married. Its not always all its cracked up to be anyway, but it is a wonderful thing - when you love someone. I'm sure you will find someone. You're probably going to have a rush of interested ladies now : ) Seriously....I am very impressed.

I know the scriptures say those things, but we don't go against that???? To me, nothing makess sense other than believing Christ and God (Elohim and Jehovah....Yahweh is Christ isn't He?) are separate, but it doesn't detract from Jesus in the least... People use that to make it seem like we have a lesser estimate of him, but it just isn't so. But Jesus IS the god of this world and even created it. God, though, is our literal Father in Heaven. But that only truly makes sense if you know (and believe) we existed before, which I do! God gave complete authority to Jesus and is our Lord and Savior. He IS the God of this earth. And will rule..hopefully soon. Things are getting scary.

Other than that, I didn't even know about the Masons till I watched the DaVinci Code. I think there may be some truth to that movie.... I think their original purpose may have been noble but as Joseph Smith said, it is an "apostate" priesthood ordinance they copy. I'm still researching, but am gathering we did use them in the building of our temples. Just like all the way back to the time of Solomon's temple. We're kind of funny that way....much like the original ancient church.

Anyway....sorry, but I now understand you better. By the way, there are definitely secret combinations in society as I posted to you in private. No doubt of it. And every church (not saying that's the case with Brigham Young, though!) has its Judas's as Bex put it... There are people who left our church who make a career of blasting and twisting it. It's happened from the beginning. I still hold, though, that to forward something painting the Pope that way - whether you believe in the Catholic church or not - is not fair... Kind of like personal character assasination. He was a great man...and I'm sure the present one is, too. I agree about how you see churches to a point. But you know what we believe. I just don't think you really understand some of it.

I hope I didn't upset you.... You do sell your stuff at unbelievable prices. When we get on top of some financial issues, I do intend to order from you. Sorry....maybe I was testing you. I figured I had nothing to lose and turnabout was fair play. I apologize, though.. You really are a precious person! I suspected as much, but we all have different sides. I didn't know there were men out there like you! You are good looking too! My son-in-law was a virgin as was my daughter. But even amongst our members its not as common as it should be even with the churches strict teachings. I am just really really impressed! Having said that I'm not judgmental of those who have not lived within those perameters, but do think its healthier all the way around to do so. Gosh, its so in your face with these kids anymore. They are getting involved younger and younger now as a whole. Nice to know its not always quite what it looks like....

Walking along, I came upon a great golden gate and could go no further. Sitting just outside the gate was a man reading a book. As I approached he neither looked up nor greeted me, but continued reading his book. I stood a few moments admiring the workmanship of the gate. Not wanting to interrupt the man and his reading.. I softly and politely asked, 'Excuse me, but what is this beautiful gate for?'

'This is the gate to hell' the man answered.

'Oh', I replied, 'But it is beautiful'.

'Yes', he answered and resumed his reading. I stood several moments admiring the gate, and wondering what book the man was reading.

After a bit the man looked up and said 'Would you please be so kind as to hold my book for a moment?'

'Why yes!' I answered, appreciating very much that he finally acknowledged me and even needed my assistance.

The man stood up, took a large key ring from his pocket and unlocked the gate.

'Please put my book on that little stool inside the gate so I can lock the gate again' he said.

'Of course, no problem' I answered, enjoying ever so much being helpful. I stepped inside the gate and left the book right on the stool where he had asked me to. He locked the gate, and reached inside for his book.

'Thank you,' he said.

'You're welcome' I answered.

He resumed reading his book. I stood a while longer admiring the gate and wondering what book he was reading that seemed to absorb him so entirely. After a bit, he said,

'You may go on now. I do have great difficulty concentrating on my reading with someone looking over my shoulder.'

'Of course, I am so sorry!' I replied, a bit embarrassed at my imposition, and journeyed on.

Hi Russ, ((( Smiles )))

I was wondering...
None of my business though but...
You wrote..

Yes, I am celibate. I am a 43 year old virgin, but not without an entourage of lifelong temptation.

By choice???
Or because you aren't married yet??
Thats not that common theses days but O.K....
I got married in my 20's..
It's O.K. to be a Christian and be married..
But it's O.K. not to as well...

Whatever..
It's O.K..
As long as you have made peace with it..
Thats all that matters really anyway..
Was it Paul the apostle that never married..
It's O.K. not too.. it's O.K. too...
I'm sure you would do fine either way..
As long as you married right, someone with understanding..

Thank You For This Web Site..
You've spent alot of time and effert on this..
I just want you to be happy..
With whatever you choose in life..

Take Care
Lynn

Lynnmn said...


I stayed celibate by choice; Because I never got married.

I had a number of great relationships with wonderful women that I should have married, but I missed out because mercury toxicity made me afraid to make a commitment.

This saddens me because I would love to have a family and there are several girls that I dated that would have married me and I would have married them. Perhaps some day it can happen for me.

Even from before the time that I was a Christian, I had a strong conscience that told me to never have sex before I was married, so I didn't.

I actually had one girlfriend accuse me of being gay. Well, I'm not and never will be, but it's sad that she was so used to men taking advantage of her that she would think it so unusual for me to wait until marriage.

I am glad that I kept myself because if I ever do get married, there will be only one woman that will have that part of me, and hopefully, that will make us stronger.

Jeanie said...


It's OK. Thanks for apologizing.



Almost all of us have someone we need to forgive.



Thanks. I just bury myself in work, but because of that, I don't have a social life so I'm not meeting anyone right now.

I am a member of Match.com just for fun and I do have a couple girls contact every week or so, but I rarely respond because I'm just too busy.



Well, having studied the deeper doctrines of mormonism, I understand the mormon polytheism thing pretty well.

I think people can get confused about the nature of God and Christ because of the translations of some of the scriptures in the Bible. They are translated in such a way that makes it seem that there is more than one God. People also get confused because they don't know about the science of hyperdimensional space, so it all seems impossible without this understanding.

Today, understanding the science of dimensionality (this sounds out there, but it's actually scientific) and knowing more about the nature of time (the 4th dimension) enables us to realize the accuracy of scripture, and it helps us to find the translation problems too.

I think it's so important to know that God and Christ are the same person. It's hard for people to grasp that because it seems unnatural, and because Christ didn't know some of the truths that God knew, but if we understand that having the same knowledge base is not the definition of being a single person, then we can begin to grasp the concept that Christ was literally God with us (Emmanuel means "God with us") and was still in heaven at the same time. This multiple-dimension stuff really messes with the human mind, but when we begin to look at time and space the way God sees it, it all makes a lot more sense. For most people, it just takes faith in the integrity of scripture.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
(John 10:27-30)


I guess I'll just leave it there because books have been written that do a much better job of explaining it than I could, for those who are interested.

I do think it's fascinating though.



I know something about the connection between mansonry and the secrets of Soloman's temple, and I'm not sure it's all good. In fact, these "hidden secrets" are very similar to kabbalism, which I have come to believe is one of the several belief systems that the Bible calls "doctrines of demons".

It's very appealing, intellectual, and dangerous, because it does the two most dangerous things we can do as Christians:

(1) Lower God to be more like man, and
(2) Raise man to be more like God.

The fallen sons of God would love to see us fall into this kind of trap.

Here is a video that touches on these things and is definitely worth watching:

The Sons of God and Biblical Prophecy, Michael Heiser



I understand what you're saying, but I also still hold that if I'm right, and if the information I have studied about the core doctrine (not the common people) of the catholic church is correct, I would be doing a disservice to not tell about it. It would be like me knowing that someone is stealing and not reporting it, only worse because this deals with spiritual matters.

I hope this makes sense.

I don't say bad things about people to hurt anyone. I say them to warn those who are willing to listen to save them from getting hurt.

Having worked in the positions that I have, I know that there is so much evil in the world that people are not aware of, and the fact that they are unaware of it makes them vulnerable.

For example, there are many good people in the world who are being robbed and their health is being stolen and the quality of their lives are being destroyed simply because they are ignorant, and I want to stop this suffering by telling the truth about what evil is doing to us in the world.

A good example of this is vaccines.

I wish everyone in the world would watch this video:

Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices by Dr. Sherri Tenpenny

because it would save so many people (including children) from health problems. It would even save lives.

If you knew that someone I loved was going to hurt me in some way, it would be considered harmful to me if you did not notify me of it.

So, my intentions are good. Well, I hope that explains it, and I hope it makes sense. The evil and deception is huge, and I want it to stop by helping people become aware of it.

OK, I'm really tired and have to get to bed. Thanks for your kind words and have a good night/day.

Russ:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
(John 10:27-30)

Jeanie: I believe this means that they are one in purpose....Just like the church is supposed to become one....

I appreciate the vaccination link... I will forward it to my daughter.

I'm sorry your prior opportunities didn't work out, but its not too late. You may have to settle for someone divorced or widowed or something....or younger : )

Its sad that being a gentleman isn't appreciated more. I think as a society we build relationships on the physical first and they should be built, first, on friendship! You're doing it the right way. You will be blessed Russ. : ) Jeanie

Hi Russ, (((( Smiles ))))

Oh O.K.. I stayed celibate by choice; Because I never got married.

Last night my daughter wanted to watch the MTV Music Awards because the Jonas brothers were on..
Not far into the awards we had to turn it off because she got upset and started crying..
It seems the host they had for this music awards started makeing lewd blunt sexual comments and started getting offending and insulting..
and also went after the Jonas brothers because they wear purity rings..

It got really blatant she started crying so we turned it off..
It seems this Russel Brand guy is a bad role model for kids
and society in general nothing is off limits to him.. Well..
If it comes on a DVD eventually, we won't buy it....
Got the Jonas brothers though...
I bet they weren't too happy about it either...
To be laughed at, the brunt of the joke...

It's the way of the world now..
Anything goes and the TV fades to black..
We turned it off she was very very upset she wanted to see
them so badly... The Jonas Brothers...
But we were totally shocked by the host..
She didn't want to see this host at all..
she was very upset and angry with him..
Me too...
He was totally out of line but the good thing is..
She new it too, so I did something right...
She wanted it off too..
What a letdown for sure..
The music awards has gone straight downhill..
Jonas brothers or not..

Take Care
Lynn

The really good news here is that she recognized it. Good for her.

Yes, the world is so corrupt and is so lewd that most people have become blind to it. It has become the norm. It is so far from Biblical standards that the Bible now seems impossible to obey to some people.

I've heard of the Jones brothers but don't know much about them.

HI there!
Excuse me.....I am not very computer savvy and therefore can't seem to get a 'notation' (Lynn's quote), in here, so I will type it out and throw a 'monkey wrench' in this train of thought. :-)

Dearest Lynn, you asked, "Was it Paul the Apostle that never married? It's OK not to, and it's OK to [get married]."

History tells us the the Apostle Paul WAS a member of the Sanhedrin. And to be such, they HAD to be married. So it is very likely that he ONCE WAS married, and his wife died.

I heard this statement from the great Bible teacher, Pastor John MacArthur several years ago, and I also read it on a website this morning after keying in "Was the Apostle Paul ever married?"

I have always found that 'thought provoking' since we read in the Holy Scriptures where Paul states, "1 Corinthians 7:1b "It is good for a man not to touch a woman...' vs7).. 'For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that."

2Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

'just some food for thought. A BIG 'YES and AMEN' to your statement to Russ: "Thank you for this website..you've spent a lot of time and effort on this. I just want you to be happy." Russ, you truly are a wonderful godsend. Thank you for ALL YOU PUT UP FROM US! God bless you, Russ! Sincerely, Abishag <><

Abishag:
I have always found that 'thought provoking' since we read in the Holy Scriptures where Paul states, "1 Corinthians 7:1b "It is good for a man not to touch a woman...' vs7).. 'For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that."

Jeanie: Most don't realize that Paul is referring to BEING ON MISSIONS...(And best to dedicate one's self fully to that mission). Marriage is ordained of God. It is NOT better to be celibate than in holy matrimony.

Hello Jeanie,
I totally disagree. 1 Corinthians Chapter 7 is referring to"the Use of marriage" . (Marital duties and obligations)

Then verse 6) concerns "Advice Concerning Marriage"

verse 8) "I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I"; The column of the KJV specifically reads "Celibacy"

For we read in verse 9) "But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn."

Why on earth, pray tell, Jeanie would they 'burn (for sexual relations), if they are talking about missions?

However, I do agree that marriage is ordained by God (sacred). However, I believe you are truly missing the point of this Chapter.

Sincerely, Abishag <><

You have to know the background and context of the letters....

We disagree on a lot of things. Why on earth, pray tell, Abishag, are we made like we are? Do you think sex is wrong? Adam and Eve were commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. Sex within its proper bounds is HOLY and good. (Burn???)

I always took that as meaning "Burn with desire". Devotion to God and His grace through the Holy Spirit can temper and control many of our lower fleshly desires and help us deal with temptation. And who doesn't need that? Even people within marriage can struggle with it also, not just single people.
However, marriage as well as the single life can both be Holy callings in life.

I agree here with you Jeanie about God's intention that all His creatures bring forth after their own kind (including us). But also, many people out there lead single lay lives, which are also highly pleasing to God and should not be despised either. For various reasons this maybe their particular calling, as others have the married life as theirs. But in either circumstance, Christ intends us to devote ourselves to Him and serve our fellow man. Living a life of chastity and prayer. It can be a sacrifice also. There is the wonderful life of the family. Those who procreate and bring up their children. Hopefully preparing and moulding them for the afterlife. There are different callings for different people.

I believe completely in the reality of Hell and literally too as Christ pointed it out. But there is also such a thing as burning with desire and that is truly what I think was meant here. And lust can be a killer to anybody. It can be better for man that he marry, rather than burn with desire, if that is his calling in life. However, even the single person can struggle with temptations and lust. Because we were all born with the potential to procreate. So the desire for sex is in all of us (unless by some reason it has gone). It is not a bad thing for a person to be attracted to the opposite sex, for if we had no such desire, who would be drawn to seek out a mate and bring forth after their own kind?

I believe sex is a gift from God and I do believe it is a beautiful gift also. But as with any gift, particularly one in which it's soul purpose is for bonding, pleasure/procreation between married couples, is something satan wishes to pervert. It should be respected and used WISELY, according to God's intentions. The desires we have naturally, Satan wishes to pervert and cause them to be in excess. Anyway in which he can encourage a person to do so, benefits him. His purpose as we know is to draw souls away from God and hopefully for eternity.

Satan looks upon God as his ultimate enemy. Because God's interest is in souls, so is Satan's. The more he can pull away from God, the better. And sexual temptation, sins of the flesh, is often a big one that many human beings fall into and one in which I believe Satan focusses on also. As well as greed in other areas of life. Excess, perversion, selfishness, obessions, disobedience, rebellion, laziness etc etc.

Sex itself is not evil, when used according to God's intention. He created our body's to respond and enjoy such intimacy with another human being, for bonding/pleasure/procreation (again within marriage). It's the use/abuse of sex that is the problem.

Just my two cents.

That was more like a dollar Bex : ) (2 cents worth : ) You are a good writer. I am not saying its bad or wrong to be celibate just to be clear. I just think that verse is read wrong by a lot of people. I completely agree that you can be unholy married.... And holy unmarried. (Or sexually pure in other words). Actually sexual purity is even moreso when temptation has been overcome....

Speaking of families, I miss my oldest daughter so bad. She got married in December. She's coming home this Christmas. (They go to school out in Idaho across the country). I can hardly stand the idea that she will have babies without me being right there. I held my kids so close as they were growing up. They say when you meet their dependency needs when they're young they will be more independent later. (Maybe I did too good a job She is making the world a better place, though. So is my 17 year old "baby" who I see at school when I work. Its so hard to let them go, but its how it works. I'm hating that she is a senior. Its hard to say this knowing others don't even think the same way which I have a hard time understanding, but its times like this that I realize how hard it was for God to give up HIS son to die. But Jesus overcame..... My sacrifice is not the same thing, but its a sacrifice in a sense.

We don't really lose them, though. I've added a son in law and will have grand babies soon. I had a miscarriage literally days before 9/11 and it's hitting me hard this year. I think its why I'm being hornery.... But in my own way, now, due to the empty place in my heart, I am contributing at school. I really love the kids. I'm lucky, too, cause I get to sub in all the classes and see ALL the kids all over the place. We had a pep rally today. What is hard is seeing kids out there (too many) mess up and get caught up in sexual promiscuity, etc. They're still kids. Half the time they have no guidance at home or do but get caught up in peer pressure or temptations. Everything is so sexualized. On the one hand it makes things harder, but on the other, its so blaringly in your face that you know its wrong and see it for what it is. It is much more special to wait and keep it special. Even if you have to wait a life time. I happen to believe families can be together forever and that opportunities you didn't have in this life can be attained in the millenium (and eternity).

Having said that, Bex, I think you've said you couldn't have babies due to your ill health. I'm sorry. That has to break your heart at times. I should be grateful I've had that blessing and not blather on.... Just missing my oldest right now...miss having them little and at home and all together.

I believe in hell, too. Just not in a literal on fire hell. Pain of conscience is hell....and its a place. I just don't think its completely cut and dried. THere are different degrees of sin. None is allowed in God's presence. (No one is perfect in this life, but we need to be working on it and willing to repent as needed). Anyway.... thanks for your "2 cents."

I love you Bex. You really are a sweet heart.

Jeanie,

You and I must be speaking of "two separate things" in regards to this SUBJECT.

I started out by mentioning that "Paul WAS MARRIED AT ONE TIME". THAT to me was very revelatory.....and him following it up by speaking to the Corinthians as how to live as a married man/avoiding fornication,etc, etc.

I see here in verse 7) "For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that."

YES, Jeanie, at THIS point in time Paul was SINGLE and was in the ministry of missionary service for the Gospel of Christ.

Thank you for bringing 'this' to my attention, that I was NOT CLEAR AS TO MY INTENTIONS.

It's is now 11:35 PM, and I can not rest without letting you know that I have reviewed, re-read, and also have read indepth Matthew Henry's Commentary and THAT is WHAT made it clear to me what you PROBABLY are referring to(?)

Thank you, Jeanie. Have a good night. Sincerely, Abishag
<><

The next time some wicca or another tries to tell you that the occult is harmless and it's symbols meaningless, send them to this page

--photos-- http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1692637.ece --photos--

Knifed 666 times each and eaten

FOUR teenagers were horrifically slain by Satanists — stabbed 666 times each and then EATEN.

The gang of Devil worshippers butchered their victims and roasted them on a bonfire before devouring their flesh.

Horrified cops found body parts dumped in a pit beside an upside-down cross, a symbol used in Satanic worship.


The victims all suffered 666 knife wounds — the number associated with the Beast, or Antichrist, and featured in horror films such as The Omen.


The pals, three girls and a boy aged 16 or 17, were all Goths.

They were lured one by one to a cottage and forced to get drunk before being butchered.

Hair from them was found in the embers of a fire the gang lit under a tree.

Police believe the teenagers were cooked in the flames before their flesh was devoured.

Their private parts had also been cut off in the sickening ritual in a rural area of Russia.

After police arrested eight suspected members of the ring, one boasted how they had previously dug up the grave of a newly-dead girl and eaten her heart.

Another said he did not expect to be punished, saying: “Satan will help me to avoid responsibility. I made lots of sacrifices to him.”

And a third said he had got fed up with God for not making him rich and that “things improved” after he started praying to the Devil.

The discovery in Yaroslavl, 300 miles from Moscow, sent a shudder across Russia — where Satanists are feared to have committed a string of mutilations and killings.

The victims, who all disappeared in June, were named as Anya Gorokhova, Olga Pukhova, Varya Kuzmina and Andrei Sorokin.


The upside-down cross marking what was left of their bones and scalps had a small animal nailed to it.


Police began tracing the gang after finding out that all the victims had made phone calls to alleged leader Nikolai Ogolobyak.

Locals said they all knew Ogolobyak, whose grandmother revealed he had sung in the local church choir as a boy.

The rest of the cult were described by ex-teachers as having been of low intelligence and moody at school.

Three were named by police as Ksenia Kuznetsova, Alexander Voronov and Anton Makovkin.

The dad of victim Andrei said: “My son said he had Goths and Satanists among his friends.

“I wasn’t scared. I thought, ‘Well, let him spend his time sitting around a cemetery — there’s not much harm in that, is there?’"

Russia has seen a series of gruesome murders, rapes and desecrations linked to Satanic cults.

Moscow alone has 15 whose worship is thought to revolve around symbols such as 666, an upturned five-pointed star within a circle and the swastika.

Devil worshippers believe in putting themselves first and their core values include pride, indulgence, ambition and meeting sexual desires.

In Britain, about 400 people list their religion as Satanism. Followers meet at a “Grotto” for rituals with candles and swords run by witches and warlocks.

I cannot find any evidence of an upside down cross being used by the current pope either. Maybe the photos of pope john paul really are just a mistake of some sort.

there are lots of pope photos here

Pope Photos


and even I do believe that Jesus had a hand in establishing the catholic church as it was established, more or less, for a certain day and time.. because if it weren't for the catholic church holding back the spread of islam I'd probably be wearing a burka right now... among other things the church did through the middle ages, like condemning witchcraft... not a perfect institution but it definitely had a purpose for a certain day and time.

however if you check the Vatican II catholic catechism, you will notice that today's catholic church declares that muslims, jews and catholics worship the same god. a bit of a problem there for most evangelicals, and even jews, who all disagree quite a bit with that idea... we do not worship allah. look up muslims or islam in the index to find that passage in the catechism.

I used to have the book on the shelf but I threw it out in the garbage so I forget which page it's on.

personally, I don't think it's wise to let anyone or anything come between you and your relationship with Jesus. that includes the pope. and even charles stanley. Jesus raised up a new temple 3 days after the crucifixion. I do believe the statement he made regarding that has great significance.

a big error I see in the catholic church is it's refusal to let go of the things of the past, so evident in it's use of symbolism. It's impossible to repent without letting go of the past.

pray for forgiveness for the sins of our fathers that our hearts might be healed.

Ohhh Yuck !((( Smiles )))

Never a dull moment on this board..
That's just awfull...

Knifed 666 times each and eaten..
Makes the Jonas brothers look like a walk in the park..

http://jonasbrothersfanclub.com/index.php

It could be worse..
Now thats pretty awfull..