according to cutler book amalgam illness ,when you start chelating with both dmsa and ala ,it is supposed to reduce symtoms while chelating , I am on my 2nd round of 25mg dmsa and 12 mg ala every 3 hours for 3 days ,I felt better before starting chelation than I do now , has anyone else experienced this ?

Hi Mikey. I think many have felt this way.
I finished my 1st round last week with just 12.5 DMSA and felt fine while on the dmsa but crashed on day 5 and still recovering. It's day 8 now and I'm going to delay the 2nd round because I am have such mental symptoms. I really think my adrenals are not taking chelation so well.
btw I tried ala a while back just after having my amalgams removed and had terrible anxiety, feelings of impending doom and the like. I won't try ala until I have a few more successful rounds under my belt.
Hope you figure things out and let us know how you're doing.
Veg

thanks for the reply veggiemom, I feel like I have moved some mecury around ,I started my 4 month post amalgam mercury organ dump last month and wanted to lessen the symtoms with dmsa and ala , but think It is making things worse for me ,don't know wheather to continue with the chelation or not ,I just do not want to get any worse than this , also you had mentioned that you crashed on day 5 , were you chelating 3 days on then taking a 7 day break ? please let me know ,one good thing that has not happened on this round compared to the last round was that my sinuses didn't get all messed up , I have to find a silver lining where ever I can .

Before you start with ALA, you have to clear away most of the candida and other stuff. It's not going to work to chelate if you have too many parasites around, because ALA is a potent parasite and candida killer as well, so there is no way you're gonna tolerate this. As long as you're in a state that you can't tolerate anti-oxidants like C+E vitamins in large amounts, but get foamy salivation and brain fog, you still have too many parasites around. Keep bombarding them with C and E and other more light stuff until they are almost dead, and then you can start thinking about switching to heavy artillery.
I hope you have started a rigorous anti-candida diet as well, it also won't work without it. Also support your adrenals with whatever you find to work.

I find that rounds vary greatly. Sometimes I feel great on round, other times lousy. I think it depends on where the body is with its own detox, ie, how much mercury it is offloading at the same time as you are mobilising / chelating with DMSA / ALA. I would stick with it. Symptoms during and after rounds are a confirmation of toxicity.

My first rounds made me feel lousy during and after. It wasn't until one year post-amalgam removal that I started feeling better on round.

Best
Nicola

Hi Mikey. In response to your question. I had planned on doing 3 days on 3 days off per Cutler's protocol. It's day nine now and don't feel safe to start the dmsa again but may in a couple of days just to see if I feel any better.
I am coming up on 6 months post removal in a week. I follow the candida diet very strictly and this helps the most with symptoms, but these blasted mental symptoms are the pits. I can't deal with any stress, nill comprehension when I read, it's like my brain is short circuiting. But I still have have hope.
Veg
PS... come to think of it my sinuses are acting up and that doesn't usually happen unless I've strayed from the diet. I'll have to make note of that.

thanks for all your responses , I am going to stick with the chelation and see how it goes , I have just finished my second round so far so good this morning feel a little better today ,I did a castor oil pack session yesterday this may of helped pull some of the mercury from the lymphs and liver just glad to feel better . thanks again for the support guys .

To Veggiemom! Dealing with stress is always a problem with detox BUT an overlooked organ is the adrenal glands. The adrenals should never be left out of any detox program since they need all the support they can get. Many of the symptoms expressed on this message board also involve the adrenals. They are powerful endocrine glands and are really abused during detox (a very stressful but good problem). Sometimes the endocrine system is overtaxed with detox and needs support (like licorice or glandular extracts or cortef). The symptoms many describe here very often includes the adrenals which are essential to life.

Thanks for your concern GaryS.
I am taking Adrenogen by Metagenics for the adrenals and as soon as I get it, will be starting ADR Formula by Pure Encapulations that's got Panax Ginsing, Eleutherococcus, licorice, whole adrenal and adrenal cortex. Supposedly this is to help with the symptoms.

And Mikey.... let us know how you do. I think I'm gonna start the 2nd round tomorrow 12.5 dmsa. I want to see if I feel better on round.
Take care,
Veg

I agree with Gary, adrenal support is very important.

feeling a little depressed this morning also have noticed lower back and hip joint pain and feel very warm today . I think my next round will be strait dmsa and no ala and will be going back to 12.5 mg instead of 25 mg as before ,don't think my body is ready for the higher dose just yet ,thanks for you concern guys and good luck on your next round

finally starting to feel better again after that last round , my body was not ready for that yet ,I read in cutlers book that you can chelate every two weeks at a comfortable dose , I will be doing 12.5 mg dmsa every other week ,for now

ditto here Mikey. I just finished 2nd round 12.5 dmsa. I felt much better on round. My sinuses cleared up while on round. We'll see if I get all stuffed up like I did last time inbetween rounds.
Veg

started chelation again ,as the msm I took last month mobilized ,and redistributed mercury all over the place , I have to try to reverse the damage , so far have not had the increased symtoms that I had experienced on my last attempt ,I am using a lower dose of both dmsa and ala ,only 10 mg of each every 3 hrs and at night , I think the key for me is to keep the dose on the low end for a while ,

wish me luck guys

All the best Mikey! Slow is the better way to go. Taking too much doesn't actually increase chelation all that much anyway apparently. Also if you overdo it, you slow things down by trying to recover from that.

Good luck Mikey!!! Hopefully it will work this time.

May the force be with you Mikey

Hi Mikey
Good luck this time and will be interesting to see if you feel a little better. Hang in there.
Rachel

thanks guys , completed the round and can say that this time feels alot better than last time on the lower dose , but will take 7 day break inbetween , so far so good

just finished my recent round 4 total so far on 10 mg ala and dmsa every 3 hours decided to only take a 4 day break inbetween and did very well on this one ,the lower dose is the the key for me , a little fatigue on the second day but only for a short while

I am starting to look forward the things again ,have not felt that in a while , both my wife and I started to look for new houses yesterday and I actually got excited about it .

Hi Mikey
That is so good to hear. I am so glad for ya and gives me hope. I haven't been able to chelate yet...my body was just not ready yet. I am getting stronger every day and so after the first of the year I am going to give it a shot and see what happens. I still have a parasite cleanse to go through and liver flush before I will be ready to try. I am still doing the castor oil packs and see things improving so much. Thank you so much for telling me about them. Oh I have never had an hour just to myself before is really stress releiving. They have been a lifesaver for me. Hang in there and happy house hunting.LOL
Rachel <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/byebye.gif" alt="" />

Great news Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twothumbsup.gif" alt="" />

well going on 11 months post removal ,and have been feeling very much worse than 6 months ago , started 8 mg dmsa every 4 hours ,and feel like crap what is happening I feel like I am going backwards , ever since usinf ala and dmsa 2 months ago I have been feeling very bad ???????????

Mikey, recovering from mercury is extremely unpredictable and the organ dumping symptoms also. Even if you start dumping mercury and feel worse and then feel better again, you will continue to get worse again, because there is no way 11 months is long enough to remove the years of stored mercury.

To my mind, the organ dumping just continues and continues and sometimes you're left not knowing what to do. Chelate or not chelate, because you keep feeling you're regressing, then you have a better patch and then you regress again. This is part and parcel of the nature of detoxing mercury.

Roller coaster, constant regressions, clear patches, then regressions and on it goes. I'm not suggesting this is exactly what is happening to you, but it's possible. If it's mercury? then yes it's still coming out of you and some people require higher doses, rather than lower doses, to try and catch up.

Here is where it gets difficult. Some people take much lower doses and cope better than higher doses. Some people have to up their dose in order to catch up and grab the mercury that continues to leak out of them, or more of it fills them up than is being shifted out. So it's very hard to tell what a person needs.

E.g. I couldn't handle 12.5 mg of DMSA, yet I upped it to 25mg and I coped. How on earth does one explain this? I gather the nature of mercury and how much of it is being grabbed onto, as well as moved around. Yet too high and the same thing would happen. I had to find a dose that was the right balance of movement/removal of mercury for my body.

Some people do not handle even 12.5 mg and rather than go up, they must go lower to 6 mg. It is a strange thing and not something I really undersatnd, other than taking unqualified guesses at.

Also using ALA encourages further elimination of mercury from brain and organs and in no way suppresses symptoms and this is heavy duty chelation. Even DMSA cannot really prevent what ALA's causes as far as side effects go. It can "help". Sometimes it can set off more dumping too, so you must continue chelating your way through this, because for me? My main organ dumping started much later on. I also found that I'd get a better patch and then another dump would come (coming in long waves). So I'd be down for the count again. Right after I thought perhaps I was improving a bit, I'd plummet. I was at my worst a year following my amalgam removal if I remember correctly. I had the last ones removed in mid 1997 and my sufferings were horrendous from about early 1999 onwards. Before that, they weren't quite as intense. I guess my body decided to unload and unleash big time after a year or so.

Dont give up chelating. If you feel you need to raise the dose of DMSA? Then do so. IF you feel you need to lower it? Do so. But do not do anything dramatic. Just try and see whether you require it higher or lower by checking symptoms.

You also may need to take DMSA more often (every 3 hours rather than 4) for more suppression of symptoms, especially when using ALA, OR, if ALA has perhaps unleashed a lot more mercury from deep organ storage.

Sorry I am really still guessing here. I wish I could accurately tell you what's going on. andy no doubt could. have you asked the folks on the frequent dose forum who deal with cutler's protocol all the time and understand it far more than most?

please let them know your situation and ask them, because you could find a much more accurate answer than the ones I'm throwing at you.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/

Cutler himself often gets on there too and sometimes answers posts.

Mikey

I have been feeling rubbish lately too. I am 21 months post amalgam removal, and have chelated intensively with the Cutler protocol for 8 months. Around Christmas time my liver began complaining, so I stopped chelating so intensively - I now do a DMSA round every two weeks rather than every 4 days.

Because I got blown out of the chelating, I thought I would have a look at the methylation protocol - taking folinic acid, B12 and TMG to get the methylation pathway of the liver going. This certainly worked, but I don't recommend it. It unleashed the mother of all detoxes in my body, that continued for 3 weeks AFTER I stopped taking the supplements. I even had to stop taking my regular B vit for a week to calm things down. And I felt absolutely horrendous - fluey, depressed, very adrenal - it was a nightmare. Thinking it was a question of dosage, I went back on the supps at a much reduced rate, and still went into a detox that took weeks to pull out of. I have felt absolutely rubbish during this time.

In my experience, chelating is a MUCH more comfortable way to get rid of the mercury. And I think you just have to keep muddling through, chelating regularly, eating properly, balancing your hormones as far as you can. There will be times when you feel better and times when you feel worse. It is a frustrating, difficult process, because you simply do not know what is going on half the time, and progress is not linear. How many times have I welcomed feeling a bit better, thinking - it must get better from here - only to go back down into detox. I think the worst thing you can do is what I did, and became distracted by another protocol.

You might check out your diet / hormones - adrenal / thyroid support? can you specify a bit more what you mean by feeling crap?

Keep muddling on - after my experience with the methylation thing - I have even more faith in the Cutler protocol.

Best
Nicola