Basically they all say they feel better but they get worse later on in life because of taking hormones and steroids an makes you so much worse later on as ur body relies on them. And taking glandulars like iscort has a risk of BSE mad cow.

even the moderators who give out info on what is good Isocort an armour are always changing doses and saying what they should be doing an trying to balance levels of saliva and blood tests results...this drives any sane person crazy with fear and stress.
no one has ever fully recovered this route and always is stress dosing.

the reason you feel better is because your taking cortisol which suppresses yoru adrenal glands and puts them kind of like asleep which isnt realy good lol..its really bad actually.

then you beleive you feel better and go down the road of more problems

Most of them are mercury poisonned but don't know yet or do not want to recognize it. They have a very dogmatic view. They [censored] the endocrinology establishment of being dogmatic but boy do they have a doctrine themselves. However, some of the stuff they say is true. Better a combo T4+T3 hormone if you are hypothyroid than a T4-only protocol.

However, I must object to your post about growing a dependency on thyroid hormones. Maybe it's true for cortisol, I don't know, but not for thyroid. When you are hypothyroid, YOU NEED to take your supplements, FOR LIFE, or else you will have a very miserable and painful life and you might go into myeodemous coma and die. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. I was not in good shape. I won't go into the details but hypothyroidism is a very serious condition with LOTS of symptoms.

[color:"blue"]The reason they constantly up their dose is because they like the buzz they get in the first few days of dosage raise.[/color] Thyroid hormone has a systemic effect and probably causes the adrenals to function more or maybe it has an effect on the Central Nervous System (dopaminergic or seratonergic effect). The cause is unknow and not all individuals respond the same. You might give 50 mcg Synthroid (T4) to someone and it's as if you've given him/her a sugar pill. Me? Raise my thyroid meds and I'll be hypomaniac, lots of energy, lots of concentration, lots of motivation, lots of creative yet delusional ideas. Maybe it's a mercury-iodine interaction. Maybe the affinity of iodine with mercury pushes some mercury away from the CNS and allows neurotransmitters to function better. After the hypomanic episode follows a grand mal : depression. But after a while things restabilize for the better, especially when the proper dose is reached.

I discovered that I was resistant to levothyroxine (T4) and that I needed lots of T3. Mercury disables the enzymatic mechanism that allows T4 to be converted into T3, the most active thyroid hormone.

After a year and half of dosage fidling I got tired and finally concluded to try chelation. Alas, many at the STTM Forum, that you speak of, are still trying to re-arange their dosage. They are stubborn. To each his own. Now I'm getting better with chelation, but I would not and cannot stop my thyroid medication regimen.

Adrenal fatigue is true, my adrenals were not producing enough cortisol, DHEA-s and Testosterone, but the levels went back up 6 months after thyroid hormone supplementation. Are my adrenal hormones perfect? I'm still investigating. One problem leads to another. I can imagine that some of them have trashed their adrenals because hypothryoidism was diagnosed to late and the damage is important. But it's not the case of everyone and as my endocrinologist said, the adrenals come back up with thyroid hormone supplementation. He made it clear it was better to get the thyroid back on track and not start messing around with the adrenals, unless it is absolutly necessary. So again, it might be the case of some of them. They might need cortisol supplements or DHEA-s supplements. I must say I found all their discussions on the matter VERY complicated and they never seem to be able to keep a constant regimen as to regards of the adrenals hormone. It's one of the reason I didn't jump in the bandwagon.

Furthermore, it has been my observation that the people on these forums, the moderators I mean, have a hard time understanding that once the Free T4 and Free T3 levels have been stabilized back into optimal range, you need to stay at that dosage and stop changing it. Thyroid hormone takes time to exert its full effects on the body : 8 to 12 weeks for T4 and as much as 3 weeks for T3. On the STTM Forum, some moderators and the site administrator argues 4 weeks for T4 and immediate action for T3. It's absolute non-sense!

It's possible that some of them are stuck with an Attention Deficit and concentration problems and can't seem to make the difference between "brain fog" (thyroid) and attention deficit (ADD/ADHD, caused by mercury). So, when they reach optimal levels, they are dissapointed and they get stuck thinking it's the thyroid causing the problems because gosh, the buzz you get when you raised the dosage made you feel so good, it's gotta be the thyroid, right? No, it's not. It could be mercury poisonning. But keep in mind that low Testosterone levels can also cause concentration and cognitive problems. Medecine is not a straight "A to B" voyage.

It's there life. They made me lose time, but they also enabled me to get my hands on some interesting facts. In the end, you are the only one responsible for your life. I found the help of God more usefull than anything else : He gave me lots of precious knowledge in my meditation and prayer sessions.

Some nuances are always left out in the dark. Only the One that brought Light can guide you throught them.

Thank you for this, E. I found it fascinating. In a way it reminds me of the SAD site where I initially went when my depressive symptoms began. They, too, are convinced that SAD is THE problem. Just find the best ways to treat it and deal with it, that's all you can do.

A lot of those people, like the ones at STTM, need to be asking themselves WHY this is happening. It is not natural to have a malfunctioning thyroid. It is also not natural to have SAD. I believe it can be a problem in some rare cases, but too many people who think they have it, in fact have other underlying problems. If you look at indigenous populations across the world who eat their native diet, including those in Iceland, they do not get SAD.

If we help them to be aware of other possible issues like mercury, some might listen. A lot of them will stick with their diagnosis and their "cures" and not want to listen to any other ideas. At least we can try to spread our knowledge for the benefit of those few who really would listen. I keep wishing someone could have helped me see the answers a lot sooner, it would have saved me years of suffering.

Linda.

The reason the site exists is because doctors dont know how to treat thyroid and adrenal problems.Most of us are on our own,its a big scandal just like mercury,powers to be want to keep us ill. T4 never works,i was on it for12 yrs, i thought it worked bt did have so many symptoms,like constipation,dry skin, low stamina,candida,blurred vision but my endo put t down to other things not anything to do with thyroid. I was then prescribed prozac which nearly killed me,it has fluride in it aswell, not good.Lucky i was only on it for a couple of weeks,i scared my doctor with my symptoms, he told me never to touch it again,he took the packet away from me.
If you have underactive thyroid,its likely you will need treatment all your life mercury or no mercury. there are people on that site who have had their thyroids destroyed by RAI, after that the thyroid is never coming back, as i say the site exists cos hres nothing else, there are a few good docs but they are expensive.

STTM is a very useful website, and doctors' ignorance about thyroid issues scares me, but as with everything in life, you have to tailor it to yourself. The 3-5 grains replacement dose did not work for me - it simply made me more tired. I found that I have settled ond around 1 1/2 - 2 grains, and more T3. I think I must convert T4 to T3 very badly (typically mercury toxic person) and so taking 3 grains of Armour simply gave me too much T4 which I couldn't do anything with. The site does not believe strongly in mercury as a cause of thyroid issues - you have to take from the site what is relevant to you, and the same goes for the chelation websites, and somehow piece it together for yourself.

As for adrenal support, this was not a choice for me. My adrenals crashed on a low dose of T4 only meds, having been in a state of exhaustion for years already, and I then became seriously ill. Maybe they will come back after the mercury is gone. I think it is unlikely.

STTM was a major part of my thyroid / adrenal education, and they do advocate testing before going on adrenal and thyroid meds. I think it is a pioneering website, and I just wish the doctors would read it and stop telling us hypothyroid people that we are 'anxious' and need antidepresssants.

My two cents...

Nicola

Most of the moderators have left the forum, some have got jobs, doing hobbies,they just dont have time anymore, that shows they are better.

Lucky you, this doc is one in a million!

why don't y'all simply google wh y and how and what instead of ignorantly slamming people . ihave been studying for weeks and the info is out there.For instance iodine deficiency the #1 cause of thyroid problems is due to bromine chlorine and fluoride.
also you might pull up the drug fact sheet for ANY thyroid medication and see that it says to take care of the adrenals FIRST. it is simply not safe to begin any thyroid treatment without testing the adrenal glands first. everything works together in the body.

unlike y'all.

kim

I love this forum as its open to other suggestions for health instead of just blaming one thing. it does seem to have mercury as a major cause but they dont say this is the only problem. we all work together here to do whats best for us and that why this is myh fav forum.

I have been to many of the web sites for thyroid and adrenal issues and have found them to be lacking in total approach and /or treatment protocol. The one main attribute of many sites is to sell you the latest greatest hormone extract and such. STTM site doesn't seem to give you a hard sell and by carefully reading the forum posts you can extract nuggets a great information. The reason some on this board are critical of other sites is because of their gaining great knowledge and can discern helpful data from crap. THIS IS EXCELLENT!!! I have been getting treatment from a chiropractic/energy doctor for awhile now and I have gained great knowledge because of him, my treatment effectiveness have flattened out. I feel the treatment only was partially effective BUT the doors to find even greater knowledge because of him was terrific.

Actually the main moderator is leaving at least partially due to *health related problems*. If a treatment was genuinely that good the forums would not be shutting down!

janie has high blood pressure, she has to work aswell.
basicall y they want to help people get their lives back because doctors arnt helping.
they like you to show lab test results before telling you what you should do, they have been through it themselves so they know what they are talking about. doctors dont seem to know anything about adrenal problems associated with thyroid meds,my doc thought i was going to die of a heart attack cos my heart was racing but it was my adrenals and he didnt know it,he is an endocrinologist, for cying out loud, what was his training. No we have to count on others and what worked for them in this world,its the same as asking your doc about mercury poisoning.
dr Peatfield is a retired doctor who knows all about thyroid problems and treats people by symptoms,were doctors have failed them, people turning up bald, in wheelechairs, suicidal all from lack of thyroid hormone,its disgusting.
yes most people are mercury poisoned and this is why their thyroids dont work, and some people on that site have said so, but people have to try and feel better and they do so by taking meds to help them get by,you cant just sit there and wait and hope for the best, its not going to happen,God helps those who helps themselves!
The biggest problemis that Drs dont like prescribing Armour,it probably hassomething to do with money, and they think T4 is the greatest,well itdoesnt work, when it doesnt work, your doc will prescribe other drugs like antidepressants.,Fibrogel for constipation, sleeping drugs, etc, cos hypos get so many symptoms, the pharmaceutical companies are doing very well on it, i forgot to mention high blood pressure and cholestrol drugs.

Can anyone who has used Lugol's Iodine tell me what dosage they used to begin, and how often they increased the dosage until they reached their ideal dose? If that question even made sense. I just began Lugol's and feel a difference already, but know that with some supplements and minerals, you have to slowly increase the dose.

i started on one drop, then went up slowly to 8 drops but found it too much, so now i have gone down to 2 or 3 daily, i mix it with Apple cider vinegar.

Thank you, Dawn. I've heard so many good things about Lugol's Iodine that I have started using it myself. I had a normal thyroid test, but have many of the symptoms of an under active thyroid. I was taking raw thyroid, but just couldn't get used to the idea of taking it. I know that it's silly to some, but I'd rather give iodine a try. Thanks again.

Is it helping your symptoms dramatically?
No placebo effect?

Kriminal...As I only started Lugol's a few days ago, it's hard to tell. I, definately, feel more energy. And, from what I've read from others, if iodine deficiency is a problem, there are lasting effects from taking it. Drclarkstore.com has it for only $5.75. Shipping is reasonable, also.

lugols is ok but Ioderal is MUCH better. I noticd an improvement straight away on Ioderal and Lugols didnt seem to do anything.

The Marshall protocol perspective is that 1,25-D spreads from the site of the inflammation (where it is acting as a cytokine) through the bloodstream (acting as a hormone)... 1,25-D directly controls the Parathyroid Hormone (PTH) and thence the Thyroid hormones as well as a number of other metabolic pathways, so it is pretty powerful feedback to the body systems, and when the bacteria interrupt that feedback path everything goes unstable.

I do know that when I corrected my 1,25-D, my usual thyroid supplement made me feel wired. I have not taken it since. Normally, missing a dose I would feel dead.

Hi Promagma - How did you manage to correct your 1,25-D ? I'm very interested in this approach as like you I've found adrenal/thryoid support to be a short-term band aid.

Many thanks!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good grief thank goodness that forum is shutting down! The "adrenal" forum is run by a dog groomer that states all docs are quacks and hasnt been to one in 30yrs. She is telling people to take steroids to "heal" their adrenals and from what I read 90% of them are not telling their doctors and are encouraged not to. The "physiological dose" they push is 20mg/day but many are taking in excess of 40mg-and most of those are complaining of cushing like symptoms and told... get this.. "stress dose and take more". The last post I could stand reading was one with a gal who was newly pregnant, self dosing 40mg of steroids and says she isnt telling her doctor. Her concern back and forth with the moderator was about "damaging her adrenals" not a word about what that dose might do to the baby. They have people ordering the stuff from overseas, some eating actual hydrocortisone cream to get the dosage needed...ugh... How many gp's are going to get stunned by a crashing patient that hasnt told them what the heck they are taking?? I think it is good that place is shutting down but all those people self medicating are left high and dry and hopefully know enough to taper down dosage and not just stop cold turkey.
Maybe they will get lucky and find themselves over here getting some other options.

im fed up with the bitching on this forum about other people or other forums. That site is still around by the way, you can read it at any time, theres a wealth of information there.The new site where they provide REALLY GOOD ADVICE will be up and working in the next few days.
Get this, docs arnt helping most of us with hypo and adenal probs so we have to self treat until adrenals are up and running again.
Valerie knows her stuff and she hasnt gone away shes on the yahoo adrenals group, she is a great lady with more info than any doc,shes been through it, what doctor can say that.
On that site there s a list of doctors in each area that could help, and they like test results before they give advice.

Some really good info here, thanks for sharing E!!!

Sandi
xoxo

The Marshall protocol involves taking Benicar, which fixes a lot of things that cell wall deficient bacteria mess up, including the vitamin D ratio. Eventually (a long time) when you've killed all the bugs, your vitamin D will regulate correctly without Benicar. See marshallprotocol.com for more info.

The topics you guys all mention is something I struggled with a long, hard time, starting with zero knowledge of thyroid and adrenals, reading books like "Fatigued to Fantastic", studying hours on the internet. Know what? I still don't know sh*t.

Oh well, I suppose I am bright enough, why even my dad calls me son... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Can anyone tell me if they think low level supplementation of Armour - like 30 mg a day - over a period of months would eventually cause fatigue? I have seen suppression of my TSH. My T-4 and T-3 levels are looking good now, but I am still awakening in the night at times, sometimes a sign of adrenal problems.

But the thing is I do not think I have a thyroid problem - I think mercury is causing the conversion problem of T-4 to T-3 in the liver, which might??? go away after chelating for a year of two.

Any experts out there? Should I just stop the thyroid completely? Because there is no way I want to start ramping up to larger doses again. Adrenals should be treated first, but I could not stand taking cortef.

I will encourage anyone facing these issues to continue chelating, I have seen my dhea-s levels rise dramatically recently - my doctor says this is a good sign. I believe it is from removing the amalgams, and then chelating. I notice I handle stress better now.

Epistomologicus,
Have you ever asked yourself why you need testosterone supplementation , thyroid supplementation as well as the rest of the cornicopia of pharmicopia you take ? How old are you ?My 90 year old great uncle does'nt take anything. Your problem is'nt hg unless you worked in thermometer or battery factories since you don't have amalgam and never did.

I remember him saying he has Asperger's. As you are no doubt aware, it is thought that this and autism can sometimes be linked to vaccine damage. Rather than accept it as a life sentence, I think it's good that E. is actively looking for ways to address the problem.

There are other ways of getting enough exposure to mercury to cause illness. I've heard of people having no amalgams and consuming too much seafood for a long enough time and finally becoming toxic with mercury. And as Linda said, vaccines is another one.

I think the problem are people who tend to retain it, whereas others excrete it pretty well. This is why some people can work around mercury and seem to show no real ill effects, whereas others deteriorate. We had a study in new zealand with dental nurses and what had happened to them later in life. Nearly all of them without fail had most of the same problems, pretty severe too.

A general dentist my father chatted to (young she was) admitted to him privately that since working in dentistry she has suffered in explicable health and mental problems and now admits she may have to get mental help. She seemed fine externally, healthy looking and a great sense of humor, yet privately she admitted she was having these issues. She didn't seem to want to accept that mercury may be the problem, but looked very troubled when he mentioned the possibility...

I was one of those who initially thought the STTM site was helpful. However, I do have to agree with one of the posts that you can go nuts on there trying to self diagnose and it can be harmful. These folks do not know you and are answering lots and lots of posts. I know they mean well, but my thoughts on this have completely changed.

I am very, very, very sorry I am on HC. I was going slow and progressing at a good rate until May before adding HC and upping thyroid. I did well for 2 1/2 months then crashed and now I am stopping to wean myself off of HC and lower armour. Maybe not all docs are great, but one does need supervision with this stuff.

I hope someone reads this and understands please do all you can do to NOT get on hydrocortisone and heal naturally. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

i got onto H,C when i first took armour, just so it would get into my cells.
i too am weaning down, was at 35mg, now at 22 or 25mg.
my adrenals change all the time, one day i may need H.C, the next i forget about it and dont take it.

I'm starting with almost zero knowledge about thyriods & adrenals, so where do i educate myself about this? To learn how to "heal naturally" as u say.