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#15750 02/09/07 06:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Sophmore Member
Hello everyone,i am a newbie from Canada,just a test post,am i getting tru?

#15751 02/09/07 07:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Sophmore Member
Looks like i am in.

#15752 02/09/07 10:56 PM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 30,867
Master Elite Member
****
Welcome to the forum and enjoy your stay!!


The Captian
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#15753 02/10/07 08:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Sophmore Member
Russ,thank you,i am very interested in your experiment with the ion foot baths,i have done 3 sessions so far and i really do feel an improvment in myself,you stated that you ran the ion machine without any feet in the water and it still turn a color,you realize the water will turn colors regardless because of the chemicials in the water,it will change different from place to place as water has different levels of toxic material in it...my question is are you sure that the water turned so bad when you ran the machine alone,looke like the water is pretty bad in your area,cause i ran the nachine without water and it just turned a light tea color....BTW...my first session and my water turned a real nasty,and turn lighter with each session....may i ask how much your machine cost you were testing,there are cheap machines out there too that dont work properly i have been told....i thank you in advance for your answer,best wishes

#15754 02/10/07 02:34 PM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 30,867
Master Elite Member
****
Welcome and thanks for the questions.

The water was nearly identical each time we ran the machine—with or without feet in the bath. I believe that you're right; (that the amount of discoloration is due to impurities in the water) but what I don't think most people know is why this is true.

Water in itself is not a conductor. If you had perfectly pure water in a large container, you could submerge a television set in the water and it would still work perfectly. I've actually seen this done. This works because the water does not conduct electricity by itself and therefore would not cause the electrical circuits in the television to short out (I don't encourage anyone to try this).

The impurities in the water cause it to conduct electricity. This is why the operator of a foot spa adds stuff to the water—often sea salts of some kind.

The increase in impurities cause more electricity to flow in the water which greatly enhances the efficiency of electrolysis and greatly speeds up the electrode corrosion and therefore discolors the water. There are other effects in play here as well, but I believe the effect of electrode corrosion via electrolysis is likely the most significant in relation to the discoloration of the water.

I've heard of some people who have had progressively clearer water with each session seeming to indicate that they are less toxic with each new session. This would—on its face—seem to indicate that less substance is coming out of the foot with each session, which would—on its face—seem to indicate that the person is less toxic with each session, which would—on its face—seem to indicate that people are successfully detoxing with each successive session.

My concern with this idea is this.

For enough of—let's say—some combination of heavy metals to come out of the body in such an amount that would cause this amount of discoloration to the water in the bath would be a whole lot of heavy metal, so much that it would be way beyond fatal to the person it just came out of.

I've seen, for example, people giving or receiving foot baths claim that the metal flecks that are found in the bottom of the bath after a session came out of the body. There are a couple of problems with this idea.

First, metal flecks of that size could not come out through the skin without rupturing the skin.

Second, if that much heavy metal came out of a person, they would have already been dead because of its toxic effects while the metal was still in the person.

Third, if that is not all composed of heavy metal but also consists of beneficial metals, we should not be happy to be loosing them during a foot bath.

Fourth, some have claimed that the metal comes out in small amounts and coagulates as an effect of the electricity. If that's true, we should be able to add minerals to water, and then by using the same electrolysis process with non-corrosive electrodes, be able to produce the same effect. Instead, we would likely simply transfer metal from one electrode to the other, which is, of course, the process used to coat metals in industry, which is called—among other things—electrolysis. I'd have to do more research to confirm this, however.

Finally, I would have to point out that, in our experiments, we had very little change in the chemical makeup of the water when feet were in the bath as compared to sessions conducted when no feet were in the bath.

I can only speculate as to why some people experience a lightening of the bath water with each session, but I personally believe we can only know for sure with a series of independent experiments. I would be careful to be sure that all conditions in the session are the same with each experiment, for example, the same water source is used, the same amount of additives are put into the water, the same amount of voltage is applied to the water, etc.

We were going to manufacture our own version of the foot bath and market it, and, this is the reason we conducted these experiments—to determine that these devices actually did something useful. We were particularly interested in the removal of heavy metals as we believe this is a current "silent" epidemic.

Unfortunately, our experiments show no significant difference between water with feet and water without, so we cannot allow ourselves to move forward on a project, regardless of how profitable it would be, without knowing that it really does have a health benefit.

Now, I have seen a study conducted by a manufacturer of foot spas where the bath water actually showed a small increase of some sugars and urea, but of course, this is pretty useless in terms of detoxing.

I have seen another foot spa manufacturer display live cell analysis as being more favorable after a foot spa session. Unfortunately, I know very little about live cell analysis so I can't comment intelligently on this. Nevertheless, I would like to see an independent study check this matter out further.

Concerning people feeling better: Yes. I have personally heard testimonies about people feeling better after several foot spa session. In some cases, minor ailments go away. Of course, the rest of the story is that in each case I've personally heard, the ailments come back soon after the sessions finish.

We also have to consider that those receiving sessions often are given a very beneficial mineral supplement before each session. I wonder if this could be the real reason for the health benefits. It's well-known that most people are mineral deficient and there are decades of testimonies showing people who have recovered from minor ailments by simply adding a mineral supplements to their diet.

So...

I'm a skeptic about foot baths in their relation to heavy metals. They may have other beneficial effects, but I haven't see any good evidence of this yet.

I have to admit that I also am concerned about the long-terms effects of exposing the body to voltages that are unnaturally high. For the sake of those receiving baths, I hope there will not turn out to be a problem here at some point in the future.

Also, after looking at these devices internally, I am concerned about their safety. The ones I looked at had no ground fault protection (GFI) and if a single person ever gets hurt or dies from a malfunction, it would be 1 person too many. I'm not an expert in electrical safety, but I do have electronics training and was ISCET certified just after college.

In conclusion, I really hope we can find a safe, effective way to quickly detox people without stressing the liver or kidneys, and other than sweating and using saunas, I just don't personally believe we've found it yet.

Hope this helps.

http://herballure.com/Studies/IonicFootSpa.html


The Captian
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#15755 02/10/07 09:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Sophmore Member
Thanx for your reply,i have read that these machines are tested and approved by standards set out by govt standards,i can post this article if anyone wants to see it,i also been reading that other stuff that goes into the water from your body like pesticides and other chemicials are invisible in the water,i never had any metal flecks in my water ,but there was a lot of sediment and a fat like mucus looking substance floating ,gross eh?...Russ...the air ion room cleaners remove dust and dirt from the air,so wa [color:"blue"] [/color] y cant the machine remove imprities from water,or our blood...it kinda makes sense...dont you think so?...BTW...those ion room cleaners work at dropping the dust to the floor ...you still have to clean it from the floor and furniture...and air filter works more effieciently ...BUT ion clenaers do drop the dirt fast ,straight to the floor....something to thing about!

#15756 02/10/07 09:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Sophmore Member

#15757 02/10/07 09:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Sophmore Member

#15758 02/10/07 09:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Sophmore Member

#15759 02/11/07 03:26 PM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 30,867
Master Elite Member
****
Interesting information. Thanks for posting.

I truly hope there is some lasting benefit from using these machines. I would just like to see an independent study with some good controls and non-subjective tests.

As for the safety, one of the units I looked at was—at its core—a standard wall-mount light dimmer feeding into a step-down transformer, then a full-wave-bridge (FWB) rectifier, a filter capacitor, and then the electrode. This is the most basic and common type of electronic circuit there is:

"A Conventional Filtered Power Supply:"

This unit contains about $50 in parts (if you buy the parts in single-unit quantities) and sells for over $2500.

I truly wish we could come across some well-performed tests because our company would certainly love to manufacture something that helps people to detox. We also stand to make a lot of money if it works. Unfortunately, we don't have the conscience to move forward with a project like this until we know it works and we can make a unit that we believe is 100% safe.

I would also love to see some studies where people add a mineral drink into their diet on a regular basis and see if their ailments disappear.

I'm a big fan of freedom, so "hey", if it's working for people, great. I really hope they do benefit from it. I love seeing people recover from ailments without subjecting themselves to harmful drugs.

Thanks again.


The Captian
Today they call you "crazy". Tomorrow they call you "ahead of your time."
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#15760 02/11/07 09:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Sophmore Member
If you still have that machine,why dont you conduct some in depth studies,i am sure fiiding subjects to help you out wont be a problem,try all kinds of water,different arrays...i think you can even rent these machines....you could be sitting on a gold mine...i am looking into renting one and doing some research my self...i will keep ypu posted...ALL THE BEST....ronnie

#15761 02/12/07 12:30 AM
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 30,867
Master Elite Member
****
We've moved on to other things. After our heavy metal studies, we decided there is probably no real health value here so we're putting our bets somewhere else.

Also, these tests take time and money and we're trying to be conservative these days.

Best of luck to you. If you find something interesting about these, I'd be interested in hearing about it.


The Captian
Today they call you "crazy". Tomorrow they call you "ahead of your time."
Global Skywatch Learn about Chemtrails - You're breathing them now!
OnlyTheBestHerbs.com World-class supplements
Mercury Talk Why you are sick.
OneUp Domains Domains, Hosting, Email
1-800-358-4278 (U.S. & Canada)
#15762 02/16/07 06:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Sophmore Member
Thanx for showing me in detail your test expeiment in the foot spa machine,well i must say,if those lab reports are indeed true and its sure hard to dispute it isnt,i dont think i will be getting anymore done,i am a little disappointed,i thought i found a way to clean up my insides...LOL....looks like ill have to go back to fasting and eating organic....how can they keep ripping people off with this scam and get away with it????????????????????


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