from Nature Reviews Drug Discovery
Katherine Whalley
Tuesday 23 May 2006
http://www.nature.com/drugdisc/res_h...s/nrd1967.html

Cannabis has been reported to alleviate the symptoms of depression, but its psychotropic effects and addictive properties prevent its therapeutic use. Writing in PNAS, Daniele Piomelli and colleagues now describe an approach for manipulating endogenous cannabinoid metabolism that could potentially circumvent such problems, thereby identifying a new target for the development of antidepressant drugs.

Over recent years, the endocannabinoid system has emerged as a therapeutic target for a range of diseases including neuropathic pain, obesity and multiple sclerosis. The identification of the cannabinoid receptor CB1 — together with the discovery of endogenous cannabinoids that activate this receptor, such as anandamide — has provided scope for the therapeutic manipulation of this system.

The CB1 receptor is expressed in many brain regions, including areas associated with emotional behaviour such as the hippocampus, midbrain and amygdala. Elevated endocannabinoid levels in these regions are observed in response to stressful stimuli, suggesting that endocannabinoids may have a role in coping with stress.

Indeed, direct activation of CB1 has been reported to have antidepressant effects, but the widespread expression and diverse roles of this receptor make it challenging to separate these effects from the unwanted psychotropic actions. In a new approach to manipulate endocannabinoid signalling, Piomelli's group in collaboration with chemists at the Universities of Urbino and Parma (Italy) developed compounds which inhibit the enzyme responsible for anandamide metabolism, fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH). The key advantage of this approach is that anandamide is produced 'on demand' and not stored, and so by targeting its metabolism anandamide signalling is primarily affected in areas in which it is naturally up-regulated, and not in regions which produce side effects.

In previous work, the researchers demonstrated that one such compound, URB597, reduces anxiety-related behaviour. In this new study, URB597 was further characterized in two rodent models of depression, the tail suspension test and the forced swim test. In both models, URB597 treatment improved stress-coping behaviour. Furthermore, the researchers confirmed that URB597 does not produce reward-related behaviour, suggesting that such compounds would not be addictive.

To investigate the underlying mechanism, the authors measured neuronal firing in midbrain regions associated with emotional behaviour, and found increased activity of neurons which release serotonin and norepinephrine, two neurotransmitters implicated in the pathophysiology of depression. Further studies are needed to establish whether these effects are indeed responsible for the observed influences of URB597 on behaviour, and other important questions remain to be addressed, such as the effects of chronic treatment with these compounds.

Nevertheless, this study provides encouragement that drugs that target FAAH could become a new class of antidepressants. And as they activate both serotonergic and noradrenergic systems, this class of compounds might ultimately have greater efficacy than the widely used serotonin-re-uptake inhibitors (SSRIs). Furthermore, their acute anxiolytic effects could also be advantageous, given the time lag for the onset of the antidepressant action of SSRIs.

References
ORIGINAL RESEARCH PAPER
Gobbi, G. et al. Antidepressant-like activity and modulation of brain monoaminergic transmission by blockade of anandamide hydrolysis. Proc Natl Acad. Sci. USA 102, 18620–18625 (2005)

FURTHER READING
Di Marzo, V. et al. The endocannabinoid system and its therapeutic exploitation. Nature Rev. Drug Disc. 3, 771–784 (2004)

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Science: Cannabis and THC effective in the treatment of idiopathic intracranial hyper
Science: Cannabis and THC effective in the treatment of idiopathic intracranial hypertension

Scientists of the New York State Psychiatric Institute in New York City presented a case report on a woman diagnosed with a longstanding history of idiopathic intracranial hypertension reported improvement of headaches, photosensitivity, transient blindness, enlarged blind spots, and tinnitus after smoking cannabis. All these symptoms and signs, including papilledema (swelling of the optic nerves where they enter the eyes), were associated with increased intracranial pressure. This means that the use of cannabis effectively decreased intracranial pressure. Treatment with THC at a dose of 10 mg twice a day, then reduced to 5 mg twice a day, was also effective.

Idiopathic intracranial hypertension is a neurological disorder characterized by high pressure in the fluid around the brain. It is also known as pseudotumor cerebri because there are some of the signs and symptoms of a brain tumour without a brain tumour being present. The space around the brain is filled with a water- like fluid, the cerebral-spinal fluid (CSF). If there is too much of CSF present the pressure on the brain rises. The cause of the disease is unknown. It is mainly found in overweight women of childbearing age and only rarely in thin men.

(Source: Raby WN, Modica PA, Wolintz RJ, Murtaugh K.
Dronabinol reduces signs and symptoms of idiopathic intracranial hypertension: a case report. J Ocul Pharmacol Ther
2006;22(1):68-75)

2.

Science: Detection time of regular THC use in urine shorter than often assumed

According to a review in the current issue of the journal Drug Court Review "it is uncommon for occasional marijuana smokers to test positive for cannabinoids in urine for longer than seven days using standard cutoff concentrations. Following smoking cessation, chronic smokers would not be expected to remain positive for longer than 21 days, even when using the 20 ng/mL cannabinoid cutoff." By using a cut-off of 50 ng/ml in drug screening assays the detection window would typically be not longer than ten days for regular users and between 3-4 days for occasional users.

The author, Dr. Paul Cary of the University of Missouri, noted that it is usually assumed by scientists, the legal system and users of cannabis that the use of cannabis is detectable in the urine by drug screenings 30 days or longer after last consumption. However, he points out that many studies that found a long detection time had major methodical weaknesses. The most serious of these limiting factors would be "the inability to assure marijuana abstinence of the subjects during the studies."

Despite these limitations of the available studies his analysis revealed that very long cannabinoid detection times (30 days or
more) are rare. The average detection window for the THC metabolite THC-COOH in urine of regular cannabis users at a cut-off concentration of 20 ng/ml in the studies reviewed by Dr. Cary was 14 days. In many of the studies "only one single subject was the source of the maximum cannabinoid detection time." He concluded that "these rare occurrences have had a disproportional influence" on the perception on the length cannabis use can be detected in urine after last consumption.

The full text is available for free at: http://www.ndci.org/NDCIR%20VI.pdf

(Source: Cary PL. The marijuana detection window: determining the length of time cannabinoids will remain detectable in urine following smoking: a critical review of relevant research and cannabinoid detection guidance for drug courts. Drug Court Rev
2005;5(1):23-58.)

3.

News in brief

***Science: Hypotension and rimonabant
In this study smoking of a cannabis cigarette had no constant effect on blood pressure but caused symptomatic (dizziness,
lightheadedness) hypotension in 7 of 40 healthy subjects. The CB1 receptor antagonist rimonabant attenuated this hypotensive effect suggesting that the CB1 receptor plays a role in mediating this effect. (Source: Gorelick DA, et al. Am Heart J
2006;151(3):754)

***Science: Childhood leukaemia
A large case control study did not find an increased risk of childhood leukaemia in children whose mothers had used cannabis during pregnancy. This report from the Children's Cancer Group of the United States and Canada included 517 cases of childhood acute myeloic leukaemia (AML) diagnosed between 1989 and 1993 and 610 controls. Neither ever lifetime use of cannabis by mothers nor cannabis use during pregnancy was associated with an increased risk of childhood leukaemia. Researchers concluded that "the previously reported positive association between maternal marijuana use before or during pregnancy and childhood AML was not confirmed." (Source: Trivers KF, et al. Paediatr Perinat Epidemiol 2006;20(2):110-8)

4.

ONE YEAR AGO:
- Science: Cannabinoids reduce the progression of Alzheimer's disease in animals
- UK/USA: GW Pharmaceuticals accelerates plans to introduce Sativex in the USA

TWO YEARS AGO:
- Canada: Proposals to make cannabis available in pharmacies
- USA: International conference on drugs and driving calls for zero tolerance

(More at the IACM-Bulletin archives: http://www.cannabis-
med.org/)

International Association for Cannabis as Medicine (IACM) Rueckertstrasse 4 D-53819 Neunkirchen Germany
Phone: 2247-968083
Fax: 2247-9159223
Email: info@cannabis-med.org
http://www.cannabis-med.org


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...just wondered if anyone else see's cannabis as medicine?..
EIP

No, i don't see it as medicine. I've seen lives destroyed by it and I have experienced what it is like to use it and what effects it has. It made me extremely ill, toxic and caused the typical mellow, high feeling that is contrary to reality and causes a person to become addicted and rely on this.

ONe friend of mine used it and changed in personality, developed short term memory problems, lung problems, behaviour problems and ended up not really caring about anything else but using it. She finally managed to get off it, but the way she was since and after she took the stuff is not how she used to be before.

One guy was an A grade student, got into taking marijuanna, became a flunky instead, then stopped caring about anything else much in life, aside from his pot. He's quite deadened in personality now.

I've seen what it does. I've also watched a programme on teens using it and what it did to them and their lives. How it changed them, how their previous interests were lost, behaviours and the feeling of deadness and having to use pot to try and get the high they craved.

How can that be medicine? The ONLY way I'd ever consider the use or this stuff is if someone is in a lot of pain and it helps them get through it. Like a war veteran, an amputee etc.

But even then, I'd be careful. I've not yet seen ONE positive outcome from the use of cannibis. Those that use it continually go on about how great it is and seem oblivious to their own deterioration. Only those around them can seem to see it. Takes a lot before they realise what is happening and hopefully can get off it early enough.

I hate the stuff.

I definitely can see it being used--but not in our current fallen World medical system of today that keeps the public and med students in the dark ages.

Every herb and plant has been created with a purpose. What people don't realize is that every plant , food, herb is to be taken with Wisdom and Guidance!

Unfortunately, the FDA and AMA will not permit this Guidance by trained nutritionists in properly administering it. Instead , they prefer to outlaw it instead.

I actually don't believe any plant was intended to be smoked either. I don't think smoke from anything is good for the lungs.- I don't care if it is tobacco or weed. However, when one is on thier deathbed in a hospice dying from advanced stages of cancer, -- smoking it would be a good option if it gets into the system faster.

Otherwise, I feel better, NON TOXIC results could be experienced by using it as a tea in doses provided by an enlightened nutritionist. Of course, you will never see that permitted by our current World system in this lifetime.

Even drinking water must be done with wisdom. Too much at one time can flush out electroytes and minerals at a very rapid rate, resulting in death. After that recent incident where that woman died from overdosing on water in a radio contest, don't be surprised that the FDA seeks to ban bottled water-- permitting only chlorinated, flouridated tap water for public use.

Cannabis can be used successfully as an appetite stimulant, pain reducer, sleep aid, expectorant, anti-nausea agent, antispasmodic agent, glaucoma treatment to reduce pressure in the eyes, and anti-anxiety agent. The seed contains all 9 essential amino acids needed by the body for good nutrition, something no other naturally-occuring substance on earth does. When injected directly into tumors, THC has actually been shown to cause them to shrink, and is currently being explored as a potential treatment for various kinds of cancer, including testicular and kidney cancers. It can stop a migraine dead in it's tracks and can be applied in salve form to painful joints in patients with arthritis.

What's the point? There are plenty of patent drugs that are effective for these purposes as well, right? Wrong. While there are a number of treatment options for individuals unlucky enough to suffer from things like chronic pain, multiple sclerosis, and the nausea from chemotherapy, many of these are toxic and not well tolerated by the patient. Take the case of cannabis as a treatment for AIDS-related anorexia, nausea, and pain. Many people with AIDS cannot eat or keep their medications down due to nausea and vomitting. Cannabis has been proven to have powerful anti-emetic properties, as well as appetite-stimulating effects. This in conjunction with the fact that it can be smoked, vaporized, or taken by other routes that bypass the gastrointestinal tract makes it the only treatment of it's kind for the unique set of problems inherent in AIDS and other serious conditions like cancer.

Let's look at some of the other alternatives pushed by the pharmaceutical companies, shall we? Take oxycontin, a potent and highly addictive narcotic pain reliever. Many patients with severe pain conditions who previously took this drug reported such improvement with cannabis that they were able to reduce the dosage or stop taking it altogether. Where sleep aids fail or cause addiction and dangerous side effects, cannabis has proven effective. When beta-blocking glaucoma drugs have been ineffective or caused conditions like blocking of the arteries, cannabis has come through with flying colors, reducing eye pressure safely with no side effects.

More people die every year from caffeine, alcohol, and even ASPIRIN than from cannabis. In fact, no one in the history of mankind has EVER died from cannabis, as it's non-toxic even in high doses. Fen-Phen, Vioxx, Thalidomide, the Ortho-Evra birth control patch, and many, many other prescription medicines have caused death and disease to thousands, yet these drugs are perfectly legal. The pharmaceutical industry is free from the stigma attached to "illegal drugs" and drug dealers, despite the fact that many of the illegal substances on the streets today wouldn't even be around if not for them! Take methamphetamine, the most potent stimulant known to man. In the 1930s, this drug--then known as Benzedrine or Desoxyn--was given to soldiers in the war to make them more aggressive and reduce fatigue. Even HITLER received daily injections of meth! The prescription use of amphetamines in the 1950s was the most widespread of any drug in history, taken by housewives, children, working men, truck drivers, and the elderly for virtually any complaint you can think of. Once the establishment turned on these drugs and realized their potential for harm, it was too late. Millions were already addicted. When they became scheduled drugs and were no longer prescribed, thousands found illicit sources, creating the meth lab epidemic we're still dealing with today. Cocaine, opiates, and even cannabis were once perfectly legal and WIDELY prescribed medications, which raises the question: why are people receiving lengthy prison sentences and hefty fines for using and selling the very drugs that were once seen as miracle cure-alls? Why are street dealers shunned by society when the pharmaceutical industry gets away with giving children ages 7+ drugs like Adderall, which is pure amphetamine, or prescribing drugs like Vioxx, which is responsible for the heart attacks, strokes, and deaths of hundreds of otherwise healthy arthritis sufferers?

It's all about our own attitudes toward drugs and what we've been taught is acceptable vs. what's deplorable. While people are finally beginning to see the light and accept cannabis as a legitimate medical treatment, many are still refusing to look at the facts and instead choose to cling to outdated and inaccurate propaganda. The bottom line is that cannabis is effective for a number of conditions and is far less toxic than a number of patent drugs available today. It is not physically addictive, and the risk of psychological addiction is actually very low, especially in comparison to prescription narcotics (morphine), sleep medications (Ambien), and anti-anxiety drugs (Xanax). It's not right for everyone and, like any other medication, should be used with respect and only as needed, but the fact remains that sick people should not be imprisoned, fined, or have their medicine taken away by draconian law enforcement agents and a government that receives funding (read: bribes) by the pharmaceutical and health insurance agencies who are responsible for the suffering and death of sick people every day.

This is what I used for depression. I never saw a doctor for my depression, nor took any OTC or prescription drugs. I use the natural method, natures way, I smoke pot. A lot. 10 years, some years every day. I would say it helped massively with the depression, which was why I never needed to see a doctor for it, but……
But I’m sure there must have been a better way……
At the end, before I gave up, it was not helping me in any way…..
And I was addicted, no question about that.
I think it blotted out a lot of pain which was good, but it also stopped me from actually doing anything about my aches and pains. I had a smoke and everything went away…..literally….I drifted off in a cloud of smoke.

When I say I used it for depression, I am exaggerating, what I should say is it was a way of life, and it happened to help me get through my depression.

When I gave up it was easy, but by then I had already given up so many things I was a seasoned pro at giving anything up.

Overall I agree with your comments 95pct, but it is not all good, it is addictive, and it takes away the focus that is needed to get well. If you used it specifically for a purpose, pain or depression, and used it when was needed…then yes…I agree…but if I becomes a way of life, like it did for me, then I disagree. I smoked pot because that’s what I did, that’s how I handled life….in a haze.

Saying all that, I would not change anything, I loved it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/oldsmoker.gif" alt="" />

I agree 100% about the potential for habituation, but I think there's that risk with a number of things from psychiatric medications (although they call it "discontinuation syndrome" instead of "withdrawal" when you quit) to coffee to pain killers to food. Some people are self-mutilators or drunks, some are potheads.

I have some friends who literally smoke from the moment they wake until they go to sleep. They don't have cars, spend all their money on it, and don't even get HIGH anymore because it's all they do. I also have the typical stoner "friends" who only call when they wanna smoke, which hurts my feelings. Some people just can't handle mind-altering substances of ANY kind, which is unfortunate. "Moderation" is just not in their vocabulary, and that's okay as long as no harm is being done to the body or to others. Personally, weed just makes me groggy and a little headachy. I used to be a constant smoker, but now reserve it for the end of the day a couple times a week. I feel like it was having some negative effects on me, such as giving me a cough and taking a lot of $$$, but I'm glad it was pot I was overusing and not alcohol or hard drugs, which can cause actual physical damage.

As I see it, we (unwell) people have two options: seek help from an outside source, such as a doctor, counselor, psychiatrist, etc. or help ourselves. We usually try the former first, taking medications, sitting through lengthy counseling sessions, and doing what others recommend. We put a certain amount of faith in their suggestions and believe they will help us, and for some they do. For those of us who AREN'T helped or are even hurt by these methods, we're left with no option other than self-medication, research, and getting advice from non-professionals. We do what works. For me, I've found that the most depressing mental aspect of my life is the inability to enjoy social situations. The anxiety is overwhelming and the noise at parties and other gatherings is too intense for me. I feel self-conscious to the point of paranoia and always have in these settings. I tried every medication and suggestion given me by doctors/psychologists, etc. all to no avail. In my experimentation with recreational drugs, I found that taking 1/2 of a Lortab about 20 mins. before a social event not only reduces anxiety, but makes me able to maintain eye contact and even start conversations, which is no small feat as anyone with an autism spectrum disorder will tell you. I don't know why it works, but it does. Lortabs make some people sick, itchy, dizzy, or sad, but for me they are very effective. The potential for addiction is there, no doubt, but when I think of it as a treatment instead of an escape or recreational high, the urge to overuse fades away.

Get high on life. Say no to drugs.

THC is a hallucinogenic drug, there is no doubt about it. Any drug that provides a 'high' causes your body to respond with a 'low' afterwards, and possibly imagine all sorts of things.

If you need an exhilarating high, try skiing or kayaking or something similar. Of course, if you've been using drugs you just might be too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/censored.gif" alt="" /> up to really get there in real life.

Drugs are stupid. Even your lortab excuses, just a crutch for low self esteem. It maybe has never occured to you, but everyone has esteem issues of some sort or another. It's a big secret no talks about. Relying on drugs will never help you resolve them. Just join the party as your real self and try to understand, you aren't the only one with issues. You'll have a lot more fun getting real than lortabs will ever help make you imagine. Fact is, the lortab hasn't changed you one ounce, so why do you risk your health and mental stabilty?

I have an autistic neighbor, just a kid but she isnt shy at all. She can barely talk in understandable english, like most autistic people, you maybe are imagining you have autism. She is withdrawn, in her own little world. But she's not shy at all once she knows someone. Quite the opposite. Very loving and needy of attention. She will probably never communicate and write like you do. I know more parents with autistic kids and all the kids are pretty much like that. They simply are unable to learn to read and write. You seem to do it quite well. Maybe in your case it's drug related imaginings. Drugs, including THC, change the chemical balance of your body/mind over time, you might consider looking into that. Because whatever you've got, it surely is not autism.

I smoked pot here and there with friends as a young adult, not much ever but i know what it feels like... and this:



... is quite typical of what pot always did to me. I hated it. It sounds like you overdosed on something and got stuck if you want my honest opinion.

You need to detox, not bury yourself deeper into a hole.

Drugs stink.

It's official! My first scathing reply on the herballure forums! A place where everyone's supposedly "in the same boat" and comes to teach and learn from one another and to share personal emotions, fears, and triumphs. Yeah right.

First of all, I was almost offended by your comments about my self-esteem and other personality traits until I realized it was just your ignorance that offended me. You obviously don't know me and it appears that you know little to nothing about autism besides what you've observed in a couple of kids you know. I never said "I have autism". I said I have an autism spectrum disorder. Very different. There are 5+ separate diagnoses within the autism "umbrella", including ADHD, Rett's Disease, PDD-NOS, classic autism, and Asperger's Syndrome (which I have). In addition to these different disorders, each can have overlapping symptoms that range in severity from totally disabling (no language, self-harming behaviors, wearing diapers, seizures, etc.) to mild (presenting with learning disabilities, motor clumsiness, obsessive thoughts, extreme "shyness", etc.)...

...that's why it's called a SPECTRUM.

Secondly, how dare you say that my feelings in social situations are probably due to the effects of drugs, especially since I've been this way since I was 2 years old?! My teachers thought I couldn't TALK in grade school, for god's sake! You have no IDEA what I've been through as a female with Asperger's syndrome: misdiagnosis, heavy medication, being institutionalized as a teenager, having no friends whatsoever as an adolescent, and struggling through day-to-day activities that most take for granted. I can't make a f*cking phone call without first writing out a word-by-word script. When tested for learning disabilities in the 11th grade, it was found that my math comprehension was on a FIFTH GRADE LEVEL. I could go on and on, but what's the point? Your mind is made up about autism, marijuana, about ME--a person you have never seen, embraced, or heard utter a single word--and about life in general. "Say no to drugs?" What are you, Nancy Reagan? I should have known a fountain of ignorance was to follow and stopped reading right there, but I wanted to hear you out.

Whatever your opinions of marijuana as a medicine, it was out of line for you to be presumptuous enough to say I don't have autism and then go on to say my problems are due to drugs. Not only is it offensive to me, it also is simply flat out WRONG. I've never done acid, ecstasy, cocaine, heroin, DMT, GHB, or any of the other drugs that are capable of producing lasting mental effects like HPPD (betcha never even heard of that, right?). Your ignorance about drugs is only dwarfed by your insensitivity (and ignorance) of autism spectrum disorders. It's people like you who make others feel unwelcome and disrespected on the internet, in school, at work, in abusive relationships, and in society at large.

Read a book.

You should have just said you have asbergers symdrome then. because your posts are otherwise very misleading. There is a huge difference between asbergers and true autism, and, I speak with knowledge of more than just a couple kids.

Quite seriously, asbergers syndrome or not, you sound like a junkie.

It's not a scathing reply hon, it's an honest reply. Maybe you are used to people lying to you for self esteem reasons as well because asbergers kids are shy but very friendly also.

anyone who smokes pot daily obviously finds their way in the world well enough to get what they want, legal or not. And anyone who smokes pot daily will have some issues and hurdles to overcome. Just like Bex above, I know plenty of examples myself. I know so many screwed up potheads.

Shame on your asbergers doctor for not seeing your drug problem, which doesn't lend a lot of credibilty to your claims either.

No I am not Nancy Reagan, but you sound a lot like Art Linkletter's daughter.

get a life.

This is a friendly place btw.

But you will notice, if you have read the posts, it's not the place to promote chemical dependency.

I am probably just the only one brave enough to tell you honestly thus far.

I know I shouldn't waste time arguing with someone who considers a cannabis user a "junkie" and spells Asperger's "asbergers", but let me just say that I've yet to hear you state one single fact regarding cannabis as medicine, which was the original title of the thread. I took the time to recall and type up actual FACTS--you know, the conclusions people come to after conducting scientific tests, recording their data, and having it published for the world to see--while you merely repeated the same tired propaganda you likely heard your D.A.R.E. teacher or youth counselor tell you.

FACT: Cannabis is non-toxic and has never killed anyone as a result of overdose, as have legal drugs like alcohol, caffeine, and OTC pain killers.

OPINION: "Drugs stink."

FACT: Cannabis is an effective anti-emetic, anti-spasmodic, and sleep aid prescribed to patients suffering from AIDS, cancer, arthritis, insomnia, and other diseases and disorders.

OPINION: "You sound like a junkie".

FACT: The cannabis seed contains all 9 essential amino acids needed by the body for proper nutrition, something wholly unique to the plant and found nowhere else in nature.

OPINION: "Say no to drugs".

See where this is going? For someone who has yet to dispute the things I listed about marijuana by using intelligent, unemotional language and facts, you sure are rude. I didn't come on this forum to flaunt some perceived knowledge of psychiatric conditions, drugs, and philosophy in everyone's face, but you flaunted your ignorance in mine first. I think everyone can see that my original post was just about as unemotional and straightforward as possible and that you attacked me for posting facts that are pretty much well-known and widely accepted (maybe not by anti-drug propagandists like yourself, but by the majority of the medical and psychiatric community). I usually AM friendly and moderate, but not when it comes to being publicly insulted by someone who doesn't know me at a forum I just signed up on, I tend to get a little irritated. I'm not angry at you and don't see why this should go any further, as it's not getting us anywhere as far as this thread is concerned. From here on out, I'll just listen to whatever you want to say to me with the quiet understanding that I know who I am and that my concept of self can't be shaken by another poster on an internet forum, nor can the facts about marijuana and the history of drugs in this country--both legal and illegal--be changed by sensational, biased, and politically-motivated propaganda.

hi guys : this is a very good discussion , I know that there are many out there that think that cannabis is a gateway drug and is very harmful, I was involved in drug inforcement in the military for 20 years and can honestly say that I didn't see one case related death from cannabis, unlike alcohol , cocaine , meth, and opiates , I feel that cannabis can play a important role as a potent natural pain killer for those in need ,but instaed ,most doctors will prescribe highly addictive opiate based pain killers that cause long term damage to the body , it is sad when something so effective is singled out ,this coming from a government that says that amalgam filling are perfectly safe

Yes I see where this going.

I didn't argue any of your facts about pot because I know they are all true. Why argue? I notice you didn't argue with my statements about so many people getting screwed up on pot.

I know for a fact that marijuana is a hallicinogenic drug. It is addictive, just like lortabs, painkillers of all sorts, drugs of all sorts. herbal or otherwise. And I also know for a fact that drugs do cause side effects and chemical changes/disruptions. It's well proven. And many many people struggle with those issues.

So, where this is going at current, is that you, like the medical establishment, desire to promote drugs that mask symptoms and create new problems rather than cure the illness.

it must be nice to have expendable income to blow on drugs. Fortunately, I have never been well off enough to afford those things. While many of my friends from backgrounds with money to provide them those illicit pleasures, like yourself obviously, I kept a roof over my head, shoes on my feet, put myself through college, worked like a dog to make a little something of my life.

Sorry, but I have no pity at all for someone like you, aspergers syndrome or not, with money and time to waste on drugs. And I have the utmost disregard for doctors and others who promote that type of mask the symptoms medical establishment mentality. Most sincerely, I do think you are a basket case of drug induced side effects and like to think whatever you've got is aspergers syndrome. I've read your other posts.

You probably have kidney problems from the lortabs already. Lortabs are a schedule 2 drug, just below the list of illegal drugs like heroin and cocaine. Chances are you high as a kite right now, I am aware of that.

You need to detoxify and start the healing process. Marijuanna is not the answer and neither are lortabs.

There are people here who can help you with that a little bit if you are honest enough to admit you have a problem. There are also good doctors and naturopaths who are very anti-drug and can help you with a detox program. but there aren't any guarantees that you will ever be the same person you were or should have been before your mind and body were drenched with drugs or other posions.

Say no to drugs. Always say NO to drugs... whether offered them on a street corner, at a party, or from your friendly pharmecuetical company sponsored family physician.

BTW, Lortabs, aka hydrocodone, specifically, may play a big part in why I got so sick at the hands of a dentist.

I had a tooth pulled the sloppy way and he gave me hydrocodone for pain. I took the stuff, about 4-5 days worth. I had some leftover. I am not big on drugs obviously and didn't really know what this stuff was or what it did, except it made the extraction pain site feel ok, I got kind of high and there was no pain. I had never taken it before, I was stupid enough to trust the dentist. 10 days to two weeks later I went back to the same dentist and he started work on another tooth for a crown. sloppy work again, quite painful afterward. I went home and took one of the hydrocodone pills, probably i took 3 or 4, over 2 days. By the 3-4th day my kidneys were shutting down, I had major plastic allergy reactions going on in my mouth and, unbeknownst to me, also major mercury poisoning. Mostly all I knew is I couldn't poop and I was getting all backed up and very very ill. My hands and arms became numb. I began having difficulty walking.

It took me months to recover simply to a place where I felt close to normal and I am still working on getting back to where I was completely, which still is not an entirely perfect place, before the dental incidents. Chances are excellent I would have fared much better if only I hadn't taken the painkillers which not only numbed the pain but numbed and slowed down my entire sytem, in the midst of a mercury poisoning situation which literally almost killed me.

I wish someone would have told me the truth about painkillers. I may have suffered permanant kidney damage just from that one short incident. Everything seems ok for the most part but every now and then I get reminiscent slight aches and pains in my kidneys that I never had before which tell me, things are not quite right.

Never again.

Hi Everyone,
This is an ancient debate and a really interesting thread.
The cannabis plant is invaluable and has so many properties &uses,possibly even some not yet discovered by mankind.
I smoked hashish (weed was not so easily available)for about 7 years or so,for some of those years I smoked almost daily,and I existed in a fog of oblivion.
If I was to write on this thread during those years I would have been 100%in favour of legalising cannabis and I would advocate it's medicinal use for any ailment.(The thing is I would not have written because I was always thinking up "wonderful "ideas,how to achieve world peace,that kind of thing,which I then forgot seconds later &would not have bothered writing because I just didn't do much of ANYTHING except smoke,chill,hang out escape from reality etc.
I spent one summer travelling in the U.S and my American friends supplied me with lots of weed there,I found this had milder effect in comparison with the hashish back home.
Ingredients of that brown lump of stuff also known as hashish ,I am only realising that it's ingredients are God
knows what,a mixture of this &that thrown in,I know for a fact that I hallucinated on several occasions and had hugely terrifying experiences while /after smoking.Sometimes I was so paranoid,I would sit for hours in the corner of a room at a party/wherever I was and be scared stiff to speak or move,untill the effects wore off.Yes these are some bad examples I mention here there were many hours of blissful peacefullness and oblivion and giggling untill my stomach hurt.
And stuffing our faces when we 'd get the "munchies"
I swallowed some on one occasion ,an "eight "as we used to call it,which was alot to swallow, a "friend" suggested we swallow it when we saw the police while waiting for our flight at the airport,well it was the most horrific experience in my life,it was like what I imagine an acid trip to be like,around 7 hours of hallucinations,panic,anxiety ,airports,flying,
I thought we were flying but we hadnt taken off yet...

That was my worst experience with the stuff.
I used to smoke with my older brother & our friends,we were very close,and as the "friends"went their seperate ways over the years,myself &my brother drifted apart too,this is mostly because he still smokes &belongs to that world,and I no longer do.
I am sure that some of the anxiety & panic I now experience
can be attributed to my smoking that stuff.
It makes perfect sense to me that if you tranquillise your body in such a way for such a period of time ,you will have withdrawel symptoms,consequences.It may be a nice dream at times but then you have to wake up.If I was still a smoker and read this I would have thought I was such a boring idiot.

It was only when I gave up smoking that I realised that I was addicted,that I had a serious problem(I really did not know)that yes it is a drug, and unfortunately it does effect you mentally and physically and there is NO way of knowing what after effects &suprises are in store for someone years after they stop smoking,mental physical ,the evidence is inconclusive...the longterm aftereffects are so far unknown...

Smoking became a way of life and my perception and other people's perception of me was that I was a "stoner"I loved being called that,thought it was a compliment.And that was difficult to give up.I felt like I had to start over again,I had to lose all those "friends"and find a new identity.
Everything was completed distorted,it's now I can see that so clearly,it's like a fog has cleared.

Cannabis as medicine yes,but who can decide the quantities and the possible sideeffects?As with any medicine(I sure there are plenty of willing candidates to take part in those studies)

Food. Sex. Religion. Wine. Exercise. Sleep. Hobbies. Sunlight. Shopping.

All of these things have an effect on neurotransmitter levels in the brain, thereby affecting our moods and/or altering consciousness. In moderation, they can bring us joy, balance, and pleasure, but when used either too often or for the wrong reasons (escaping reality, fitting in with the crowd, etc.), they have the potential for harm and/or overuse.

I'm a firm believer in the saying, "Everyone has their drug," whether it's an illegal substance ingested for its physical effects is of little consequence. The same people who denounce marijuana often have other problems with excess and may be overweight as a result of overeating, be compulsive gamblers, use organized religion as a way to numb their pain and explain every single detail of their lives, thereby avoiding taking responsibility for their actions, or have unhealthy relationships with any number of substances or activities.

It's a lot like the question, "do guns kill people or do people kill people?" Is it marijuana that's causing a person's problems, or is it their RELATIONSHIP with marijuana that's out of whack? Seeing as how marijuana is neither physically addictive nor harmful/toxic to the body, this is a pertinent and fair question. In order to become dependent on a substance or activity, a person first has to have one or more of the following:

--an addictive personality
--a disrespect for the power that substance/activity has
--a disregard for its potential for abuse
--a lack of balance/ability for moderation in their lives

If it was a physically harmful substance like methamphetamine or a self-destructive behavior like cutting we were talking about here, you could say that the problem is the substance or the behavior and that "NO amount of it was beneficial and that ANY amount was harmful", but it's cannabis we're talking about here...a common weed that's been used since the beginning of time for any number of reasons--medicinal, creative, religious, nutritional, relaxational, and recreational.

Queen Elizabeth smoked marijuana for menstrual cramps. Bob Marley used it as a religious sacrament, a common practice in the Rastafarian lifestyle. Allen Ginsburg, Andy Warhol, Louis Armstrong, and countless other artists, literary geniuses, musicians, and cultural icons smoked marijuana. Present-day actors like Woody Harrelson and Susan Sarandon are advocates, as are comedians such as Dave Chapelle, George Carlin, Tommy Chong, and Chevy Chase. Even political leaders including Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, and George W. Bush admit to having tried marijuana. If itwas really the scourge on society that some are making it out to be, these people wouldn't have such hugely successful careers and millions of fans and supporters, let alone be able to think and function on a day-to-day basis.

Don't get me wrong--I'm not saying that because these "famous" people use or have used marijuana that someone else should do it, but I am saying that some of the most powerful, influential figures of our time have been avid pot smokers.

Cannabis used to be included in hundreds of over-the-counter and prescription medications prior to 1937 and routinely given to children with no brain-damaging effects. The Model T engine was designed to run on unrefined hempseed oil. The government actually released 2 films encouraging farmers to grow hemp for the war, one of which was entitled, "Hemp for Victory", in 1934. Hemp fiber was the main alternative to cotton for making clothes. It was only when high profile Black jazz musicians and Mexican immigrants began using marijuana for its mind-altering effects that legislators decided it was a problem. Do you have any idea of the role racism played in criminalizing marijuana? Commercials and films depicted Black men smoking marijuana and raping white women; it was used as an excuse for driving LEGAL Mexican immigrants out of the country. There was surveillance of prominent jazz musicians including Louis Armstrong and Cab Calloway by the Federal government and even an attempt to OUTLAW jazz music! Because many minorities used marijuana, it became an excuse to harass and demonize them in an already largely racist nation. A number of sensationalist films that blatantly lied about the effects of marijuana were released, including "Reefer Madness" and "Keep Off the Grass".

But why the big anti-marijuana campaign? Wouldn't a substance this insidious already be recognized as such by the American people?

No. In fact, during the early years of the attempt to outlaw pot, a majority of people saw it only as a common ditchweed that grew in every state in the U.S.

The point here isn't to argue or disrespect anyone's opinions, but to simply share a little bit about the history of marijuana and my views on the topic. I actually agree with the observation that many people become dull, lifeless zombies who spend too much money and time on marijuana. Like anything else in this world, it has the potential for abuse, and I've seen it firsthand. I respect everyone's right to make their own decisions as long as they're not hurting anyone else and feel that judging others for their beliefs would be contrary to my own. I also think the attitudes toward this subject are slowly shifting, and for that reason alone, it's an important issue that deserves discussion.

It's highly unlikely you'll ever find a person who is addicted to drugs of any sort, whether pot or prescription medications, that will ever admit that drugs are harmful. Same goes for alcohol.

There are hoards of meth addicts in places these days. None of them think they have a problem either.

Cocaine was an an OTC substance once too. anyone want to argue it's OTC benefits? Opium?

Calcium and magnesium are great for menstrual cramps too and you don't have to sleep them off or manage recovery time. Matter of fact, you can even keep your car safely on the road while using them. Whatever happened to Andy Warhol and Bob Marley? Quite a list of stoner celebs. very impressive. You forgot to mention John Belushi, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, gosh, so many pot smoking celebs off your list there. Sometimes I wonder what they would have achieved had they not been pot smokers. You might want to balance your list with mention of non-drug using celebs or others.

Hemp is a great fabric, if you don't smoke it up before it gets to the mill. really nice fabric as a matter of fact.

There are other ditchweeds that'll really blow your mind too. Most people do recognize them as insidious and stay away, as they always have. Things get crimiinalized when people get hurt, pretty simple.

you have a very narrow simplistic view of things. like a 5'2" 350 lb person who claims they have really big bones.

there may be some truth to that... but... nevermind. Too hard to pry an addict from his love.



funny. influential to you anyway.

and prohibition was an attempt to demonize ummm... flappers, right the flappers, no umm gangsters, right gangsters... i know! the irish! lemme see, how else can i twist this to paint my ideas in a better light...hmm ... one of the most prominent leaders in the theory of evolution of the 20th century claims that black people are really less evolved than whites, maybe it's all related.

You know, gambling isn't illegal anymore in a lot of places, why don't you go play in a casino? take all your cash with you and your rabbits foot for good luck. take your credit cards too. Take your 10 year old cousins and teach them how to live. When your money is gone you can get a job as a topless dancer at the bar next door. I've heard it pays pretty well. That way you'll be close to the casino to spend your dough and days with powerful and influential people. Take your 10 year old cousins and teach them how to live and become powerful and influential too.


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Amalgam is safe too. Just ask any dentist that uses it.

Dentists, dental assistants, and nurses have really high rates of prescription drug misuse/abuse also. Just check any state medical license database. Lortabs are more popular than pot for those who have access to the prescription pad. They're safe, can't you tell that by the fact that so many of them are successfully employed under the influence? I cannot figure out what all the fuss is about.

Tracii,
You really don't have to defend it's case to me because I know first hand how wonderful the stuff is.I used to work in "The Hemp Store".I know about Hemp.It truly is wonderful
&amazing.
As for the names of those celebrities who have smoked pot ,well people are all the same celebrities or not,people who smoke will always say it's great.
George Bush probably wants to promote marijuana to further
make the people docile.If people are all stoned they won't do
anything,they are passive,confused,paranoid,they are drugged.maybe I am being paranoid.
I know a little bit about Rastafari.At age 11 I bought my first album,Bob Marley and have loved him &his music ever since,read books watched films about him/Rastafari ,all of that...but sadly Bob Marley died of cancer.An end often met by smokers & people who are regularly around smokers.

I definitely have an addictive personality, so my experience with cannabis could be called extreme ;but look around you also at all the people with mental health problems (me included )who smoke alot or used too.
It effects people mentally & phsically in a negative way.

Maybe you feel like this is some kind of attack,
it's just that it's been such a huge part of my life,before when I smoked &even still now when I do not,because I have lots of memories and lots of blanks were the memories should be.
Reading your thread ,I feel like that was me only 7 years ago,with all those facts in defense of cannabis,I heard them all in The Hemp Shop &Co.
Do you really believe it does not have any negative effect
on people's brains,on their health?
Do you know for a fact that it does not contribute to mental illness?Contribute to anxiety disorders,schizophrenia for example?

This is officially the last post I'll be making in this thread. Swear.

To everyone on both sides of this debate, I'd just like to say that I respect your choice to not use marijuana. I think it's fine that you don't use it, as it's not right for everyone. It's fine if you'd rather your kids not use it or the people you live with if you want to avoid second-hand exposure. That's your right. What I DON'T respect is the spreading of misinformation, propaganda, and myths regarding this issue.

First of all, George Bush obviously doesn't support the use of marijuana, as he's gone out of his way to further the War on Drugs, seeing to it that the DEA make numerous busts in states where medical marijuana has been decriminalized. These busts have involved compassion club workers and terminally ill patients who are now dying in jail with no family and no hope. They can't even die in peace because of these laws, so to say that GWB probably wants us to smoke to keep us docile is a glaring mistake.

Secondly, marijuana smoke, while an irritant capable of causing bronchitis and airway irritation, is by no means a carcinogen. Long-term studies of heavy pot smokers (5+ joints daily) have proven time and again that marijuana smoke does not cause cancer. A lot of people may not realize it, but the reason tobacco smoke is as detrimental to health as it is lies not in the fact that it's smoke, but in the fact that it's treated with multiple pesticides/fungicides/fertilizers/herbicides. These chemicals, when ingested and metabolized in the human body, break down to radioactive compounds, only a fraction of which include radium, polonium-210, and uranium. It's been postulated that a carton of cigarettes has radioactive effects equal to 200 chest x-rays! If it was truly the smoke that was responsible for causing cancer, why do smokeless tobacco products like snuff and chew also cause cancer at a rate equal to smokeable tobacco? True, it's not good to smoke ANYTHING, but marijuana smoke has an expanding effect, as opposed to the vein and airway-constricting effects of tobacco. Cannabis smoke is perfectly capable of irritating the lungs and leading to chronic coughing and mold-induced infections, but a carcinogen it's not. Bob Marley died of melanoma that started on his toe as the result of a soccer injury, not lung, oral, or esophageal cancer that would be expected from someone ingesting smoke.

For those claiming that marijuana makes people apathetic, docile, and detached from the world, I only have 2 words: The Sixties.

The 1960s saw the rise and popularization of marijuana and other drugs like LSD among middle class white youth. It also saw an era of GREAT public outcries against everything from women's rights to civil rights to protest of the Vietnam War. This country hadn't before experienced such unified, organized protests in all its history--marches on Washington, draft card burning, and many, many more rebellious acts were committed by this generation. That's not to say that drugs were the only factor in this uprising, but they definitely played a role and in no way served to make them numb to the goings-on in the world.

As for pot causing mental illnesses and mental deterioration, that's only partly correct. In people with a tendency or family history of schizophrenia, marijuana has played a part in triggering the disorder in a handful of people. For mentally stable individuals, (the only ones who have any business using pot in the first place), there is no risk of "causing" mental illness. The study that "proved" that pot kills brain cells consisted of a scientist placing masks over the faces of monkeys and bombarding them with amounts of smoke equal to 600 joints in 60 seconds. They not only experienced brain damage, but also died, not because of the toxic effects of pot, but because of oxygen deprivation. It would be physically impossible for a human being to ingest that much pot in any form in such a short amount of time.

Finally, I'd just like to close with this: I am not a heavy pot smoker. I am not addicted. I smoke when I want to meditate or when I have cramps that aren't responsive to OTC pills, which comes to about twice or three times a month. There are often stretches of time where I don't smoke and have no desire to do so. It makes me tired and headachy, which is why I cut back so much. I smoked an ounce a week all through college and still managed to make As and Bs in everything but math (learning disability), participate in theatre, and maintain an active social and spiritual life. I have matured since then and no longer smoke as often. Even if I DIDN'T smoke marijuana, I would still go out of my way to defend another person's choice to do so, knowing what I do about it's history, mental/physical effects, and the politics behind keeping it illegal. I don't think it's right for government officials to tell me what to put in my own body as long as I'm not hurting anyone else. I'm telling you these things about myself not to justify my position on the issue, but to let you know that I'm not just another pothead who defends pot solely because I smoke it. I am equally passionate about gay rights and am not gay, and about a woman's right to abortion, though I've never been pregnant. There are so many things I feel strongly about that haven't touched me personally, as I hope we ALL do. Our convictions are what keep us from stagnating and standing still in life; I offer no apologies for mine and expect none for yours. This has been a good discussion, but I'm forcing myself to bow out, as some of the comments have been stressing me out more than necessary. Good luck and God bless.

I just wondered did you smoke pure weed with nothing else because what we used to do was make a joint using tobacco from a pouch or empty out the contents of a cigarette,and then burn the hashish & sprinkle it into the mix,
in varying quantities and then roll it all up in the papers and smoke it like that ,except when we used pipes/bongs.
And so we smoked all that other horrible stuff from the cigarettes too.

I respect everyone's rights too.I am a peace loving person.
I feel strongly,passionately about many things,
but during the time I smoked I personnally could not function adequately to act on any of these causes.I could not think clearly or focus properly.Everything was distorted.
You are lucky if it does not effect you negatively as it does many people.

I was once in a relationship with a native american man who smoked weed all the time.He used to tell me stories of special ceromonies where they would smoke,and I understand about the spiritual ,insightfullness the smoking brings/opens/encourages &it holds a special place in the World,it's a natural thing ,a plant,and here for a purpose
I understand &appreciate this.
This way of life is alien,
unfortunately,
to the 9-5 existence in this country at the moment.
I guess that the fact is cannabis dosn't suit me or my personality,maybe partly due to the fact of my metal toxicity
or partly caused by smoking all those years,especially the cigarettes.But I have met alot of people my age and older with similar cannabis experiences, who feel they are still suffering after effects,particularly mental symptoms years later.

If you are healthy & happy then I am happy for you.

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Sunflower: Bob Marley….what a cool first Album….respect! My first was Adam and the Ants, but they only had one great song!

I agree with almost everything you said sunsflower, I could have written what you typed up here. Uncanny really. Addictive personality, I too preferred hash, Munchies, laughing until my stomach hurt, I too was proud of being a Stonner.

again I agree 100pct, now I have given up, I too can see cannabis should not be legalised.

One thing; paranoia, I loved that strange sensation, I would actually seek it out, I needed to smoke a lot to get like that, but was always good fun. Not fun fun, but so strange that I revelled/wallowed in it. I loved being something, somewhere else.

However our governments want to dress it up, the fact remains that millions, yes millions, of the people in our nations smoke pot regularly. So many people do it, that some of them also happen to become famous. It does become a way of life, and that includes normal people and celbs too.

I agree with Tracii but have an experience closer to home. Me. I smoked pot for heavily for 10 years, during that time I held down, and excelled at, a well paid, high flying job in the city. I had an exciting social life. I worked hard & played hard.
To say that it turns people to mush is not always true because I did not. It was how I relaxed and chilled out from my stressful job in the city.

But…….with all the problems mercury has caused me, smoking pot did not help in the slightest. It did not keep my body in peak physical condition. My immune system was continually drugged with this stuff, and that is unfortunately one of the many reasons my health got so bad and continued to fall to such a low low level.
I should say; Worked hard, played hard, crashed hard!

I have no one to blame but myself.

The method our governments uses to dispel pot use is very interesting. They use fear. They advertise the fact that it “wrecks lives”, is a door to other “harder drugs”, causes so much pain and suffering, black market activity, waste of money, ruins your health, ruins families, ruins children, that people who smoke pot become usesless …etc …etc…they make it out to be something so EVIL and DISGUSTING.

But the fact remains it is a very nice sensation. I actively enjoyed it. In moderation it is fine. It was a great way to unwind and relax. All my mates smoked, it was a great way of life. unfort I have an addictive personality and I got hooked on it and other health issues got worse because I continually compromised my immune system with it.

What I’m saying is the governments make it out that you will burn in hell if you even try the stuff, but when u do try it, it is actually a very nice experience.

Its like saying don’t eat ice cream because its real bad for you, causes lots of health problems. But the fact remains most people eat ice cream; it tastes wonderful, and people receive no ill health because they ate ice cream.
(and yes yes yes us sicknotes can’t eat ice cream, me included, but most people eat it, they know it is probably bad for them, but they cannot tell how or why its bad for them because they don’t get sick eating it. I could have used any other example, like white flour, sugar, sodas, beer….this list is endless.)
(and yes yes yes I know ice cream is in fact bad for you anyway.)

A very interesting thread this, if anymore slagging matches start I will not post here again.