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#17523 - 04/08/07 02:35 PM "Reverse osmosis" does not remove fluorides
Oleg Offline

Junior Member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Toronto, Canada
A previous posts by anonymous reminded me about this issue.
I am sorry to spoil the business for those who sell the so-called "reverse osmosis" filters under a claim that they remove fluorides.
Sodium fluoride, sodium silicofluoride, fluorosilicic acid, hydrofluosilicic acid, ammonium fluosilicate are among the compounds used as fluoridating agents.
All those substances become ionized in water, and so, they would pass right through the reverse osmosis filter.
IYou can read that in any textbook on laboratory chemistry.
Reverse osmosis is the passage of water under pressure through a semipermeable membrane made of cellulose acetate, aromatic polyamides, cellulose acetobutyrates or other materials.
This treatment removes approximately 90 percent of DISSOLVED SOLIDS and 98 percent of ORGANIC impurities, INSOLUBLE matter and microbiological organisms.
Reverse osmosis removes only about 10 percent of IONIC IMPURITIES impurities and does not remove DISSOLVED GASES.
This method of water purification will produce type III water (the lowest laboratory grade) and is frequently used to treat water BEFORE its passage through ion-exchange resins to reduce the load on an expensive ion-exchange bed.
In addition to claims that reverse-osmosis filters remove fluorides, some commercial enterprises sell water filtered using reverse osmosis, also with a claim that it removes fluorides.
I guess the only reason they continue doing that is because so far nobody had sued them for misrepresentation.
You can read more at http://www.deadwater.info/filter.htm
best regards: oleg

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#17524 - 04/08/07 04:34 PM A Water Filter That Removes Fluorides?
Russ Online   content


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Registered: 12/31/99
Posts: 21091
Loc: Maine, USA
Thanks for this excellent information.

Do you know of a filter that does remove fluorides? I know a lot of people who would be interested.
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#17525 - 04/08/07 07:38 PM Filters with ion-exchange bed
Oleg Offline

Junior Member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Hi, Russ and other forum members:

In order to remove fluorides you need a filter with an ion-exchange resin.
However, how do you know if it does the job and when it is time to replace / reactivate it?
Ion-exchange resins can be overloaded by other ions, which are plentiful in water and either harmless or considerably less toxic than fluorides.
So you end up paying big bucks and yet the effectiveness of it is quesionable, primarily because THERE IS NO EASY WAY to determine if the ion-exchange bed needs reactivation.
When it is fresh, it would do the job, no question, but what happens six months down the road? Do you unload another few hundred dollars or do you trust the manufacturer's claim that it can be used for 2 years (or whatever they claim)?
Let's not forget that mineral content in water is very much different from region to region. In some areas you cannot soap up your hands, it is so hard, in other areas you need to stay in a shower an extra few min, as you feel "soapy", the water is so soft.

I know one family, they had a 3000-dollar system installed (about 2200 US$) in the house.
IMHO that is tremendous waste, as it filters everything, even the WATER FOR THE TOILET TANK and the laundry machine!
It is hard to imagine that reasonable people would go for that!

In industrial/ laboratory settings they go by the prescribed maintenance schedule and a few hundred dollars is a small change for them.
There are prescribed procedures for ion-exchange bed reactivation, they call the service people and get it done.
But who can afford all that for his household?

Don't get me wrong, ion-exchange resin DOES REMOVE fluorides, but for how long can you hope to use it?
A couple assay tests would buy you another such filter, so that is definitely out of question.

IMHO the least expensive and safe way to filter drinking water is to use "reverse osmosis" for bacteria and viruses with a removable cartridge.
Then run that water through a carbon filter, maybe more than once, or buy 2-3 table-top filters. And then add soluble Calcium salt, as described in my other post (Simple and easy way to neutralize fluorides)

Here is a rather remarkable example of how misleading can be the claims of those who claim they know:
it is from
http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryhowtoguide/a/removefluoride.htm
>>>Reverse Osmosis Filtration
This is used to purify several types of bottled water (not all), so some bottled waters are unfluoridated. Reverse osmosis systems are generally unaffordable for personal use.<<<

Any book on laboratory chemistry would tell you that "rev osmosis" removes only about 10% of ionized impurities.
And yet this "pro" claims it is different!
Besides, a "rev osmosis" cartridge, which can be attached to a tap is only about 120-150 US. So it is perfectly affordable for household use. However, I would only use it for bacteria and viruses.
As for the specific product brands, do a seach for "fluoride removal", lots of entries pop up

regards: Oleg

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#17526 - 04/12/07 05:34 PM Re: Filters with ion-exchange bed
Russ Online   content


Master Elite Member
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Registered: 12/31/99
Posts: 21091
Loc: Maine, USA
Do you have any particular unit that you would recommend that removes fluoride. I would certainly look into it.
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#17527 - 04/21/07 08:21 AM Re: Filters with ion-exchange bed
Oleg Offline

Junior Member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Hi, Russ and other forum members:
My apologies for not replying sooner, I was away for a wk.
I do not know any particular brand of ion-exchange filter, as I never used any.
I still believe that even the best filter of this kind does not offer the same protection as a simple addition of soluble Calcium salt.
Tea leaves, for example, contain plenty of fluorides. And so if someone prepares tea with a fluoride-free water, he would still end up ingesting whatever came with those tea leaves.
But addition of soluble Calcium salt would do the trick for both ingredients - water plus whatever is added to it (tea leaves or smth else).
Wines contain fluorides, often very substantial amounts. Is anyone ready to forego wines and all social occasions it comes with?
But addition of soluble Calcium salt would do the trick perfectly.
Beer, soft drinks and reconstituted juices would contain fluories, if they are prepared with fluoridated water.
You cannot run those drinks through a filter, but you can add soluble Calcium salt and be perfectly safe.

Plus how about eating out? Here you got a glass of water in a restaurant, or a bowl of soup; what do you do with it?
I never touch water that is served in restaurants, just as I avoid drinking anything when at other people's places. I always carry my own water or I pour a solution of Calcium acetate into the "3rd party water". I carry a small flask of it with me at all times.

Plus no matter how good is an ion-exchange filter, the active ingredient would inevitably begin to age after a period of time.
Imagine during the first week it was taking out 90 percent fluorides. Ans so instead of "optimally fluoridated" water with 1ppm you were getting 0.1 ppm of rat poison.
But what happens 3 months down the road? six month? a year?
At which point you would make a decision to replace your expensive machine (or a cartridge)?

Plus on top of that, in addition to the quality of ion-exchange resin, you still need "mechanical arrangements" to ensure maxium contact of water with those granules.
This is a very serious problem and the best illustration I can think of is the fact that bacteria and viruses pass just fine through a table-top carbon filter, since there is some "space" between individual granules.

Plus every individual ion-exchange granule would be "aging" at the surface. And here the manufacturer's specs can be twisted by saying that "this filter has enough ion-exchange material to remove X amount of fluorides".
In view of the fact that once the material got "clogged" on the perifery of each granule, whatever is left inside becomes pretty useless.

It is essentially the same with bones. Transformation of hydroxiapatite into fluoroapatite is taking place in areas, which are adjacent to the blood vessels, which are a part "biological matrix" of a bone.
So in terms of pure weight, only a few percent of a bone mass could have undergone this pathological transformation, and yet a person would be debilitated with chronic fatigue, since his Calcium exchange would be severely compromosed.

so here are my 2c
best regards:Oleg

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#17528 - 04/23/07 05:07 PM Re: Filters with ion-exchange bed
Russ Online   content


Master Elite Member
****

Registered: 12/31/99
Posts: 21091
Loc: Maine, USA
Thanks for this information.

Where do you get your Calcium acetate?

Also, I would be happy to get some kind of filter even if I had to replace it every three months just to at least reduce the fluoride exposure I'm getting.

So, judging by your writing, I'm looking for an ion-exchange unit that uses resin. Is there a name for this that I can look for in the marketplace?

I would think that some reduction of exposure would be better than none, right?

Thanks again for your extremely helpful information.

Russ
_________________________
Russ Tanner
Today they call you "crazy". Tomorrow they call you "ahead of your time."
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#17529 - 04/26/07 09:39 PM Re: Filters with ion-exchange bed
Oleg Offline

Junior Member

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Hi, Russ and other forum members:

Again, my apologies for not replying sooner, I am still trying to figure out how to set up email notification to those threads, which I initiated.
For now it is "blind checking" every few days, so that people would not think I "walk away" from my posts.

I am not sure if Calcium acetate is a proper chemical name for this stuff, but I get it by adding acetic acid CH 3 COOH(vinegar) to eggshells (CaC03)
You can read more at http://www.deadwater.info/neutral.htm

As for commercial filters, here is what I got on my search for "Fluoride Removal" (paid listings)
www.equinox-products.com Top Whole House Fluoride Removal Filter System. Free Ship. Now $495.

Fluoride Removal Filters
www.PureWaterEssentials.com Remove fluoride from tap water! Undersink, counter, or whole house

Again, beware of false claims that "reverse osmosis" removes fluorides.
Also, a "whole house" may mean that the filter capacity is also wasted to filter water for toilets and laundry.

"Reverse osmosis" cannot be "whole house" because it is very slow. It has an accumulation tank, which is being gradully filled "while you sleep".
One acquaintance had such a system, but he never assayed the water.
The tank is closed, you cannot open it and wash it. There is an inlet opening and an outlet.
If you use the same tank for 10 years (changing filters as required), would smth grow in it?

According to books it is the "Type 3", the lowest laboratory grade water, imho not worth the money, except for removal of bacteria and viruses.

Best regards
Oleg

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#17530 - 04/27/07 11:37 PM Re: Filters with ion-exchange bed
Russ Online   content


Master Elite Member
****

Registered: 12/31/99
Posts: 21091
Loc: Maine, USA
Very good. Thanks for the Info. I'll check it out.

By the way, if you want, I'll be happy to help you with the subscription issue. Once you log in, go to "My Home" (near the top of the page), and then click "Edit" to the right of "Subscriptions", you'll be 90% of the way there. The rest is easy.

Hope this helps.
_________________________
Russ Tanner
Today they call you "crazy". Tomorrow they call you "ahead of your time."
Global Skywatch - Learn about Chemtrails - You're breathing them now!
OnlyTheBestHerbs.com
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#58161 - 07/09/10 02:07 PM Re: Filters with ion-exchange bed [Re: Russ]
Lynnmn Offline

Master Elite Member
****

Registered: 05/26/08
Posts: 4713
Hmmmm, (((( Smiles ))))

Some bottle water has no flouride which ones would that be??
I have a Kinetico system reverse osmosis for drinking water and the rest is for normal use filtered but not reverse osmosis for brushing ones teeth,
showering ect because of the steam of Chlorine and what that other awful stuff they added to the water long ago that can kill fish and they warn kidney patients not to drink.
Chloramine thats it.
It's even worse it contains ammonia and it doesn't, like chlorine does dissipate it's awful stuff plus they form nitrates ( Blue Baby Syndrome )
look what they do to us from the heavy metals they place it our mouth, inject into us through vaccinations and poison us through the water system.
Blue baby they say genetic but you can get it through nitrates and the water.
They want to call everything genetic that way it's like blameing US for the toxic effects on our children.
Lets not look at the nitrates the water the vaccinations or the mercury in your mouth...
Lets just focus on genes thats what they want to do of course there must be a reason for that.
Want to guess what it could be???
It's the most terrible thing isn't it.

http://www.lexic.us/definition-of/blue_baby

http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-chloramines.htm

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#62525 - 04/20/11 07:06 PM Re: Filters with ion-exchange bed [Re: Lynnmn]
HERCULES2X Offline
Freshman Member

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 1
Hello Oleg and members

I am very glad I found this site as I have many questions regarding Fluoride. I stopped using Fluoride toothpaste a couple of years ago, but the water in New York City is heavily fluoridated as well as has a ton of chlorine in it, so the benefit of not using toothpaste is almost moot. I saw your recipe for neutralizing Fluoride in tap water by using Egg shells and Vinegar to make Calcium salt and adding that to tap water in a bucket/decanter/pitcher etc. Unfortunately you did not say how much Calcium salt is needed per given quantity of water. Also about how many egg shells should one use? and how much vinegar to neutralize the Fluoride in lets say a gallon of water? In all honesty I would like to start neutralizing water in five gallon bottles, this way I will always have fluoridated water on hand to drink and cook with. Would you know off hand about how many egg shells and how much vinegar would be necessary in this case?

Since I spoke of Chlorine is there a way of neutralizing that as well? I know those water filters say they neutralize fluoride, but how long and how well do they really work? I heard that merely heating water up causes the chlorine to evaporate as it has a very low boiling point an therefore boils off long before the water boils. Is this true?

BTW The website DEADWATER has been taken down is there another you can recommend?

Thanks for taking the time to read and answer my post

Hercules


Edited by HERCULES2X (04/20/11 07:07 PM)

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#62526 - 04/20/11 07:06 PM Re: Filters with ion-exchange bed/Ultra Pure Drinking Water [Re: Lynnmn]
Abigail Offline

Master Elite Member
****

Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 10436

star
Hi All,
I just so happen to be reading various posts, etc, and this one struck my attention.

I have been drinking Ultra Pure Light and Refreshing / LeBleu bottled water /50.7 Fl Oz. 1.5 Liter. I find it to be quite refreshing.

It is NOW AVAILABLE/ LeBleu 5 gallon bottled water can now be delivered to your home or office. For the distributor nearest you call:
800-854-4471
<www.lebleu.com>

Oxygenated with Ozone. Hope this helps! Blessings~
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