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#31858 - 02/11/08 04:47 PM Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
bfree Offline

Sophmore Member

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 21
I have only posted once and received some very good information. I am in the process of reading Andy Cutlers book. I am sure that when I am through, this forum will be sick of all my questions.

I still look at the posts on this forum to try and learn as much as possible.

I was wondering, does anyone ever get back to their selves after following Andy Cutlerís protocol that had true mercury poisoning? It seems many on this forum have gone through Andyís protocol but are not getting any better. Is this because they have other underlying problems besides mercury poisoning?

I do not want to be a downer, but it has just been going though my mind, if Andy Cutlerís protocol is so wonderful, then why are there so many people on this forum that have been using it for what seems years and are still not better?

I guess I am just trying to ease may mind and find out as much as possible before going through it myself and spending a lot of money.

Thanks, bfree

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#31859 - 02/11/08 05:24 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
Bex Offline

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Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 4266
Loc: NZ
Hi Bfree, yes the Andy protocol works. I was healing from mercury poisoning and was healing just from his DMSA protocol alone in the end.

There are people on this forum healing because of his protocol, Sunshine is doing better and a few others, some of which no longer get on here.

No matter how you decide to remove the mercury, it is NEVER easy, nor is it ever fast. Unless you have already have a pretty good constitution and good elimination. Most people struggle either way. I experimented a lot before using Cutler's. I mean everything you can imagine. Garlic supplements (which worked great when I had amalgams, but caused very strong reactions once amalgams were gone), chlorella, other DMSA protocols (which hurt badly), homeopathic detox kit (Heels, which was GREAT, but had to use much lower doses and keep having breaks from it), Alpha Lipoic Acid at one stage (high doses which hurt me a lot), DMPS IV (released a load of stored mercury everywhere, forcing my body to go into 24/7 detox mode, keeping me bedridden many days), etc etc.

Most of the time I found that I would increase my detox symptoms with any of these things, get intolerable symptoms, stop the detox, take sometime to recover, and doing this over and over. Anything for me at that time to speed up this long agonising process. But often I could not handle the symptoms and was driven so close to suicide or even being committed a number of times. Really dangerous.

So Cutler's was the last I tried and the one I mainly finished my detox with. It was still not easy, produced symptoms, but they were evened out more and more tolerated and safer for me. With all of it, I was obviously reducing metals over time. I found that treadmill walking was also helping, plus hot baths with epsom salts or sea salt and baking soda.

All these things pushed the metals out. But nothing made it go any faster than what my body could tolerate and often doing it wrong slowed things down due to the time I took to recover from redistribution....

I did whatever it took to get the stuff out of me, but now I realise that sometimes it causes unnecessary suffering and possibly damage too could have been done, I do not know.

You have to basically see what suits you, what works for you. If Andy's doesn't? Try something else. But always start slow and low doses and do not push your body to continue something intolerable. Stop and rest. My mistakes were trying to do the dose that I was told to do and to keep pushing myself to take it, even though I was going through hell on earth in the process. I had to stop and change the dose many times on many of these products. This would annoy any health practioner that dealt with me and they would tell me that I should not stop taking it, that I should continue. This was putting me at risk and following that advice could have caused a suicide. Because mercury, when it moves around for many people causes so much suffering as to almost defy belief. I could not handle the reactions.

Cutler's again was the best tolerated. I was indeed recovering from this condition and a much happier healthier person. Colour came back into my face and eyes, hair changed in quality. Skin was totally different, soft and smooth. You cannot believe what you can be like when you become less toxic.

If you find a doctor/mercury specialist, they too may have a way that will suit you, but make sure they are good and know their stuff. But whatever you do decide to do? steer clear of ALA until MUCH later!!!!! This seems to be the real danger one. This is the one that nobody should ever use until they have gotten their body levels of mercury reduced significantly. And then it should be used correctly.

You can give his a go and check your responses. Sunshine has to use very low doses of DMSA, his detox symptoms are too strong otherwise. It shows it definitely DOES work!!! Later people can increase as more mercury is gone.




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#31860 - 02/11/08 06:47 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
James44 Offline

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Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 124
Bex, how long did you detox for in totality? How long with Cutler's protocol? Just wondering what I may be facing.

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#31861 - 02/11/08 07:13 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
Bex Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 4266
Loc: NZ
James 44, I was a real mixed bag of goings on! I had my last amalgam removal in 1997 (I was 24). I did not understand mercury detox properly and didn't know what on earth was going to happen to me. See, when you have amalgams, the body is in storage mode, so you never really feel the full impact until all amalgams are gone and the body starts to go into detox mode. Then it's all on.

Anyway, I got ill immediately following last removal, very badly. Probably due to swallowing the removed grains of amalgam. I got badly poisoned.

I was given a few DMSA capsules (did it the wrong way, high dose and intermittant - 2-3 days per week). However, it didn't seem to affect me at that stage and this seemed to stablise some of my symptoms (for a time).

I went into what seemed like a sort of remission (to a point). Then by age 26 the sh*t hit the fan. I had done NO other form of chelation and had left everything as it was. My body on the other hand decided to start dumping stored mercury out of the blue and boy did I get sick. I think the year was 1999 when the sufferings began and I did not understand what was happening to me. I blamed my replacement materials, but I was wrong. mercury was coming out and repoisoning me.

I went and had a DMPS challenge test (wrong move, and uninformed doctor). The DMPS itself caused a massive eruption of stored mercury to hit my system in one shot. From there, I really copped it. I started to get mercury rashes covering my body from head to toe. Anytime I heated up, I was covered in rashes and welts and I'd feel it almost burning me. Very hot. Itchy too. They would subside to a point but took a few hours sometimes. I realised what it was, so I would encourage this process with exercise or hot baths.

A doctor sent me some quality Vitamin C powder and selenium drops. This encouraged further elimination of metals via the skin. So I could not tolerate too much because of the symptoms from too much toxin movement/removal. I was that filled with mercury that it didn't take much to set off detox. The mercury was made very available by the DMPS challenge test, which I believe pushed it into accessible areas all over my body!

So I spent sometime on hot baths and supplements. I did try chlorella and things, but again I coudl not take the symptoms. I cried and salivated everyday almost as my body tried its best to get rid of the metals, further increased by any attempt at pushing detox further by supplements etc.

So let's say that I experimented with different things like this for probably a year or so. I used DMSA, only one 50 mg capsule (on its own) and this would cause horrific symptoms. I coudl not tolerate it and would wind up almost going insane. I did not know about Cutler's protocol then, so didn't know what was happening to me (redistribution).

I "think" i started using Cutler's around the age of 28 years old...probably around 2001 or so. But I believe I had already elminated some metals, I just needed to do more and his was working pretty well when I think back. I did it intermittently as well. I just did one week on and one week off when I felt up to it. I started to feel healthier and more normal by 2002.

I can honestly say that by age 29 - 30 years of age I was becoming a healthy and happy person. All the stored mercury was beginning to be reduced enough for me to start experiencing proper and prolonged improvements, instead of unstable intermittent ones that never used to last before more mercury would come up to be eiminated. When you are detoxing mercury, you get the roller coaster ride. But when you've eliminated enough, you start feeling better overall. It just hit me oneday out of the blue, I suddenly felt something had shifted, I was getting well.

So I can say that from the time I started detoxing mercury e.g. 1999, I was getting well by 2002. It took about 2-3 years. But remember I hardly did any chelation during that time and was only doing half pie attempts and using all sorts of things which only mainly mobilised it, rather than proper strong chelation. So I believe that Andy's was the main one to clean me up in the end and I only started using his in 2001....

I only used the DMSA part of his too, never got onto the ALA because I already felt I was quite well and happy.

I plummeted later from infections (bacteria/viral) and got worse after wisdom tooth removal. This has not been something I"ve been able to recover from like mercury. It is actually worse. So it's kind of sad that I got so well with years of effort from amalgam removal and detox and got only a relatively small time period of being 'well" and then this happened.

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#31862 - 02/11/08 08:36 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
James44 Offline

Graduate Member
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Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 124
Bex, thanks for sharing your situation with us. If anyone deserves to regain 100% health it is you!

I have a strong feeling that if your main health concern right now is a bacterial/viral infection your underlying problem is your ileocecal valve. I know, you read some of the information I provided but please hear me out and keep an open mind.

To draw a simple analogy: Your body is the kitchen and the garbage can in the pantry is your intestinal system. The cover on the garbage can is your ileocecal valve. When the cover is on the garbage can everything is well as long as you are able to open it up when it is full and empty it then put the cover back on.

Everything in the kitchen is fine, no smell and you hardly known the garbage is there. However, if you are unable to open the garbage can the garbage spills all over the floor and the kitchen smells, bacteria grows and the place becomes infected. Same thing happens if you can't put the cover back on the garbage can. Bacteria and viral infections all over the kitchen.

The reason why they call the ileocecal valve the "Great Mimicker" is that having waste material from your intestines dumped into your system repeatedly causes all sorts of health problems not the least of which is bacterial and viral infection.

Bacterial and viral infections are textbook ileocecal valve dysfunction.

When the ileocecal valve locks open or closed the body in effects poisons itself with its own bacteria.

Considering the chemical poisoning you've endured I'd almost be surprised if you didn't have ileocecal involvement. You know whats best for you but you may want to take a closer look.

Isn't the solution to the most complex problems usually simple? If there's bacterial and viral infections in the body doesn't it make the most sense that it is emanating from the dirtiest, nasties part of the body, the colon and small intestine?

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#31863 - 02/12/08 12:35 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
Bex Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 4266
Loc: NZ
Hi James, thanks!

well there are so many theories as to what part of me is causing what and it's overwhelming. I have spent a LONG time trying to adjust things to where I can just barely tolerate life at this point.

My diet is the main one that I rely upon for ANY eventual alleviation of symptoms. Because any deviation from it is totally disastrous. I have reached the only point where I am able to keep just "some" weight on me. I cannot give up butter, lard or my fats, they have been a bit part of helping me.

When I did not eat them, I was more underweight, skin was drier and my cramps in my gut were awful then too, in a sense things were worse, I was weaker. In removing fruit and grain and including healthy fats, there was at least "some" improvement. I was able to get hungry again and it helps produce more bile too.

It is possible what you said could be going on, I don't know. A great doctor here who uses a voll machine (EAV testing) and is excellent in wha the does, refers me constantly back to the oral gangrene in the jaw. He believes that this is connected with the gut problems, exacerbating the existing bacteria/viral infection. I think he "might" be right. The gut worsening and worse symptoms came after one particular wisdom tooth was removed. And this is the exact side he keeps detecting the gangrene, yet I never told him I had the wisdom tooth extracted at that time.

So that was interesting. However, no xrays etc really show much. Even a bone scan can overdiagnose in areas too and not always show exactly what is really going on. Many people have cavitations but I think it depends on how many you have, how weak you are, what else is going on, plus which cavitations maybe the most toxic...? I don't know, just guessing.

So if there is gangrene, no amount of anything is really going to do much for that, apart from surgical intervention and me keeping bacterial levels down by diet and maybe using something else (e.g. cat's claw or colloidal silver etc).

Thing is, gangrene would also travel to the colon I'm sure and me having any weakness there to begin with, would be an accident waiting to happen. Not sure how to handle the valve problem if there is one because I understand there is even more foods to eliminate, including fats....I've already had a low fat, no fat diet and saw what that did to me.

But yeah I mean if things aren't moving through properly from blockage, it will of course add to the burdens of what I already have. However, to eliminate more nad more foods from my diet concerns me too. I have been on a strict diet now without any cheats or slip ups for a full 2 weeks (just over). my cheat was with some fruit and it through me into a complete relapse.

I am still waiting for improvements. Don't want to speak too soon. Usually a cheat can consist of something quite small so it is very difficult to stick too. I am concerned adjusting - re-adjusting my diet will lead to other issues. I need the foods I "can" eat because it's what I survive on and keep some weight on with.

I can look into what you mention more, but it takes me a while to start looking into something new again. Well simple answers might be what's going on, but it may not. It can also be multifactoral issues combined that do not allow the body to heal properly. I think once upon a time I had "mercury" and so long as I dealt with mercury and kept candida at a minimum, healing was possible and did happen over time.

This time things are much different and I don't believe it's just one issue going on. Far from it. I think it's probably 3 or more. That's not easy to deal with, particularly if those issues are seriously hindering immunity and messing up the gut.

Thanks though. I know I need to look into this, I guess right now I feel tired and unmotivated and possibly still going through die off too. Hopefully in a week or so I'll be a wee bit more motivated and will read more of what you're speaking of here. I'm glad it's helped you, that at least is encouraging to me.

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#31864 - 02/12/08 02:57 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
imgeha Offline
Veteran Member
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Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 282
bfree

to go back to your question - how long does it take? - Bex is right. It takes a LONG time if you are severely poisoned, unless you were lucky and realised what was going on early on in the poisoning and acted promptly, in which case you could hope for a quick recovery. For most of us who sufffered a total collapse of health from mercury toxicity and who have had amalgams for decades, recovery will take years. I read somewhere it will take one month for every year you had amalgams. I had amalgams for at least 30 years, so I am looking at 2 1/2 - 3 years of chelation, and I am betting it will take longer than that. It is a long, agonising process, but, like Bex, I believe that Cutler's way is the safest and most logical. It has taken the toxins decades to accumulate and do their damage - so it will take a long time to clear them safely and let the body heal as far as it can.

Most of the people who post on the boards are actively removing amalgams or chelating. So they will be hanging around for a good few years. After they get better they stop posting, and so we don't hear about them leading normal lives again. So the view you get on these boards is biased towards the sick people. It IS discouraging, but you've just got to keep chelating, eating a good diet and hoping your body will come through.

Nicola

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#31865 - 02/12/08 03:16 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
Kitsune Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 1985
Loc: Leicester, England
That formula has not encouraged me. I had 4 fillings for 3 years. Have been chelating for almost 8 months with no significant changes so far, despite taking 50mg DMSA and 100mg ALA every 3 hours, daily, for the past couple of months. Yet I can't see any other possible root cause for my health problems. Go figure.

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#31866 - 02/12/08 05:42 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
James44 Offline

Graduate Member
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Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 124
Bex, there's ways of allevaiting ileocecal valve dysfunction besides diet. The area can be self-massaged a few times a day and there's also pressure points that can be worked. The reflexing pressure points are right side base of the neck, outside right thigh and front base of right heel.

Think of it this way, no matter if you have gangrene or excess bacteria or whatever. If your intenstine and colon are "sealed up" your body is going to pass the infection or bacteria with little problem to your body. It is the fact that the bacteria and/or infection is leaking into your blood stream through your intestinal system that is the problem.

Interesting that you mentioned the situation being exacerbated by a wisdom tooth extract. Did you have any extractions on the right side? I have a theory. There is a very important nerve that controls quite a bit of the function of the body called the Vagus Nerve. This nerve runs from the brain along the right side of the neck along the carotid artery and proceeds don't through the upper intestinal system and along the ileocecal valve. I'm beginning to think that mainly mercury but also other dental work causes impingement/disruption of this nerve which then causes all sorts of problems in the gastrointestinal system.

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#31867 - 02/12/08 06:38 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
Kitsune Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 1985
Loc: Leicester, England
Bex, sorry can't remember . . . has anyone actually opened up the wisdom tooth area and cleaned it up? While I've been reading up on various things I've come across stories of people who had adrenal fatigue and other symptoms which wouldn't go away, and they ended up being due to infections. One of them had two kinds of poisonous bacteria growing in the area around a tooth, and their health improved quickly once the area was disinfected. You've probably already considered this but I thought I'd add my two cents'. Unfortunately some of us just have to keep hunting and hunting. Eventually when all else is eliminated, then whatever else remains, however improbable, must be the truth LOL.

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#31868 - 02/12/08 11:22 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
mikey Offline

Elite Member
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Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 611
hi bfree : I sure that cutlers protocol may help many people , but the problem that I have run into is that my system is very sensitive to most of the chelators out there , I can only use them for a short while and then crash , others can use them for longer periods without any bad effects they are the ones that will have a better chance of healing much quicker , what I have found out so far is that dmsa and ALA are very tough on the adrenals gland , digestive system ,kidneys, and liver , so for now I am looking for alternatives to remove the mercury that are not too hard on the system

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#31869 - 02/12/08 11:36 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
Kitsune Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 1985
Loc: Leicester, England
That's interesting actually. The last time I had a break from chelation, I felt a lot better. My head wasn't as foggy, energy levels were up. Problem is, my sleep problems worsened instantly and I struggled to stay awake past 7 p.m. I figured I just had to keep pushing ahead with the chelation, but something isn't right here it seems. There should be no reason why my body should rebound so instantly when I have a break from chelation. It's can't be pure redistribution. Something to do with other physiological effects of the chelators maybe? Hmmmm . . .

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#31870 - 02/12/08 01:34 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
pgm Offline

Graduate Member
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Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 185
Mikey, are you taking molybdenum and Pantothenic Acid or ornithine? They are against fungal and bacterial waste products (acetaldehyde and ammonia). You may succumb under them if you don't support this action (brain fog, etc.) I have never had any problems with my adrenals since I moved on a fairly high dose of Pantothenic Acid.

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#31871 - 02/12/08 05:52 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
mikey Offline

Elite Member
***

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 611
hi pgm: I had to stay away from high doses of panathonic acid or (b-5) it will send my cortisol levels to the roof , I found a multivitamine that contains molybdenum and will be starting that one soon

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#31872 - 02/12/08 11:04 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
Bex Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 4266
Loc: NZ
Hi Linda, no I haven't! We don't really have many dentists/oral surgeons here that do cavitation surgery.

My doctor recommended one, but at this time I haven't been in touch. I am paying my dental bill off, so I can't really do much more right now. Plus still trying to recover from the last job! Would be a bad idea to go and get more done in this state.

I too have heard of people getting almost instant recoveries sometimes from cavitation surgery (if it's done right and thoroughly), but some have gotten worse, some needed multiple surgeries to get it right because they can come back.

Virus made me ill, but I could still somehow detox....so with the wisdom tooth removal? Something went badly wrong. Coincidentally. I was actually STILL detoxing mercury at the time I had the virus and could still do so. But stopped being able to after tooth extraction.

It is interesting that Andy mentions this in his book about those who stop making progress and things come to a standstill. Sometimes it can be cavitations. They are horrible, worse than mercury believe it or not! The toxins have been compared to mustard gas.

It's just ongoing potent rot in the jawbone spreading through every area of the human body. No wonder people can wind up so ill they can be in wheelchairs from it. One guy did and got well after cavitation surgery!

I see you are not making the progress you had hoped for. I wonder what might be going on there too. Have you tried something else like cilantro etc to check a response? Do you feel it's metal related now? Or something else going on? If this protocol doesn't feel as though it's effective enough, you may want to try something else to see what happens. Though I'd probably not experiment with ALA

I used to try chlorella and other things and it stirred things up no end, but at least it was indicative of a metal problem.

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#31873 - 02/13/08 12:40 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
glancina Offline

Veteran Member
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Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 220
Loc: So. Cal, USA
how does one find a cavitation expert?
_________________________
Gabriella

Step by step, that's how you achieve success.

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#31874 - 02/13/08 03:17 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
Kitsune Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 1985
Loc: Leicester, England
It sounds like you can at least point to the wisdom tooth removal as being at point at which things changed for you Bex. I hope that can lead you to some useful ideas. Sometimes symptoms are all we have and we just have to make the most of what they are telling us.

I'm pretty sure mercury must still be a problem for me. My sleep problems had gone away for a year prior to amalgam removal, and they have been troublesome ever since removal, worsening as usual in the winter. I guess it's possible that during removal, with no protection, I took in more mercury than I did during the whole time I had the amalgams in my mouth. I also can't imagine what else could be making me ill, though it will hopefully help to talk to Dr. Peatfield about this.

Maybe I should try 3 days on/3 days off chelation again. I was able to do this until the SAD set in.

Don't you just wish sometimes that we could magically find out what was wrong so that we knew how to put it right

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#31875 - 02/13/08 05:15 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
pgm Offline

Graduate Member
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Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 185
Thanks very much for that Mikey. Now I know for sure that I really have had adrenal fatigue (and too low cortisol), and that B5 is a powerful supplement to address this problem. My adrenals never overshoot, no matter if I take large doses of B5. I think your overreaction to it may be a result of your anti-depressant usage, they tend to make your adrenals to produce too much cortisol, and leave them in a bad state, that takes a long time to recover from.

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#31876 - 02/13/08 08:46 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
pgm Offline

Graduate Member
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Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 185
Back to the original question: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? Yes and No.

I've been searching for an answer to my problems already for a year, or so. It seems like the pathogens are the ones that causes our problems. Many of my symptoms have been lyme-like, but then again not. When I started looking into bacterias and viruses, I noticed some of the described lyme symptoms can be generic, and related to many other bacterias and viruses: like depression, fatigue, aching joints, muscle pain, headache, dizziness, confusion, brain fog, heart palpitations, muscle twitches and adrenal fatigue etc. It appears that there are a lot of bacterias/viruses that can cause lyme-like symptoms, but they are not lyme and they are easier to deal with. The symptoms they cause are still similar, but less severe.

More evidence that your problems are indeed related to bacterias and other pathogens is the ammonia/acetaldehyde connection; if supplements that aim at detoxing these helps, you have further evidence for this.

The Cutler protocol does not include these, and I found these were essential for me. ALA on the other hand works well for killing these pathogens, and should generally be taken in the way Cutler suggests. However, I didn't find that all of his instructions worked for me, had to make rounds sometimes very short, because ALA could provoke a die-off that lasted for days, even after discontinuing its use. DMSA seems to have some undocumented anti-pathogenic effects, in addition to being an acetaldehyde chelator, that I'm really not familiar with.

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#31877 - 02/13/08 03:04 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
Bex Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 4266
Loc: NZ
Hi Linda, yeah I mean I can't do much about the virus, but if things are exacerbated by the possible cavitations, it might be one avenue. It's just sad that I need just a bit more health to get me going and I don't even have that right now.

YEs it is possible that the unprotected amalgam removal has made what you already once suffered much worse. mercury vapor is lethal. You can survive with amalgams only because you get a little of it and often, which is kind of chronic, but the body does its best to deal with it and if it gets help by diet etc, improvements can often be achieved. But obviously it is not really the answer because mercury is highly toxic and the body is constantly having to cope with this. But a big exposure to vapor in one session can be devastating with long term effects. But also the fact seems to be that amalgam removal tends to bring on healing crisis too, so you re-experience many symptoms and often worse than what you had as the body is trying to get rid of the mercury inside of you.

I don't know if this is happening to you, it is difficult to know with anybody. I would think at this point there should be some improvements by now considering how many rounds you've done and the fact you are using ALA. But again, no matter what you do, it takes time and a lot of it. Unfortunately it is not always a gradual uphill climb to health, I pretty much wallowed in illness most of the time during healing and got some patches of improvements but they didn't last as more mercury came to the surface to be excreted. Like an ongoing cycle. The first 2 years are usually the worst.

Yeah, I wish I knew what was wrong, I mean REALLY wrong so I could have an exact plan of action with no doubts and no more wasting of my time and my life trying to figure it out. So far I've been pretty much falling on my face!

My recent dental visit has really done it. I am feeling like garbage daily without respite. Why? I mean I'm eating very well too, but I feel like I've been run over. And this didn't even have amalgam involved.

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#31878 - 02/13/08 03:16 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
Kitsune Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 1985
Loc: Leicester, England
Are you sure that the trouble is due more to EBV than to a possible cavitation? Maybe your body is struggling to cope because bacteria in the wisdom tooth area are compromising your immune system? Just a thought; it's probably already occurred to you.

I was thinking about posting a thread tonight called "Can DMSA and ALA be addictive?" then thought nah, that's silly. It's just that I thought I'd try giving my adrenals a rest after about a month of solid nonstop chelation. Took my last dose today at 7 am. By this evening I felt like I was coming down with a cold, I was irritable and anxious, and pretty well out of sorts overall. I gave in and took some DMSA and ALA about 45 minutes ago and the symptoms, including the ones of the oncoming cold, seem to be gradually settling down -- though I am also getting whacked hard with the evening sleepiness, more so than usual, as I always seem to be when I try to take a break from chelation. As for the cold symptoms, I suppose the ALA, being an antioxidant, could be keeping the germs at bay. I also know that cholinergic rebound can mimic the symptoms of a cold, but I don't know why that should happen in this case.

Just want to feel a bit better LOL. Never mind, back on the chelators for now. Maybe they are helping and my body doesn't want to be without them.

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#31879 - 02/14/08 05:08 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work?
bfree Offline

Sophmore Member

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 21
Thanks everyone! I am sorry that I have not responded back until now. I appreciate all that you have said. It has given me encouragement and eased some of the doubts I was having as I start this process of figuring out if I have mercury poisoning and then detoxing.

Thanks again!, bfree

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#59345 - 10/02/10 11:36 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? Of course it does. It works miracles. [Re: bfree]
Manhattan Offline
Freshman Member

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4
Loc: NV, USA
@bfree Congratulations, you are on the right way.

Originally Posted By: bfree
if Andy Cutlerís protocol is so wonderful, then why are there so many people on this forum that have been using it for what seems years and are still not better?


Because if they hadn't been using it for years they would be too sick today to write in a forum how sick they still are. Ask me how I know.

This stuff is so toxic it takes years to get rid of it safely.

Ease your mind about the Cutler Protocol. Cutler is the best. It is the only safe chelation protocol out there yet.

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#59346 - 10/02/10 12:41 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: Kitsune]
Manhattan Offline
Freshman Member

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4
Loc: NV, USA
@Kitsune
Originally Posted By: Kitsune
It's just that I thought I'd try giving my adrenals a rest after about a month of solid nonstop chelation.

I know this advice comes a bit too late, but this is not the best thing you can do for yourself. You need to chelate with LA (lipoic acid) no more than half the time: three days on, three days off. Otherwise you build up toxic amounts of Zinc and copper in your body.
Originally Posted By: Kitsune

Took my last dose today at 7 am. By this evening I felt like I was coming down with a cold, I was irritable and anxious, and pretty well out of sorts overall. I gave in and took some DMSA and ALA about 45 minutes ago and the symptoms, including the ones of the oncoming cold, seem to be gradually settling down (...)
Just want to feel a bit better LOL. Never mind, back on the chelators for now. Maybe they are helping and my body doesn't want to be without them.

What really happened: while you were taking LA and DMSA, heavy metals in your blood stayed bound to the chelators and could not do much damage. Once the chelators were gone, your blood was flooded with mercury and it sort of deactivated your immune system. My experience is that about 24 hours after stopping LA, you are at the lowest point and it is really easy to get down with a cold. What this means is you need to reduce the dose of LA on your next round of chelation and when next time you stop LA keep taking DMSA for a few more days on the proper DMSA schedule (every three to four hours day and night).

Originally Posted By: Kitsune

I gave in and took some DMSA and ALA about 45 minutes ago

Don't do this again (no ALA while having a cold). Take only DMSA because LA while being an antioxidant is also a very potent chelator which crosses cell membranes and you get the opposite effect. Instead of pulling mercury out of your blood with DMSA you are flooding it again with the aid of LA with the mercury from inside your organs. If you have a cold leave the mercury in its place until you get better or you may subject yourself to a chronic bronchitis or something similar. It's not worth it. Chelation must be done with utmost care. (Guess how I know. I made my own share of mistakes.)
In the situation you are right now I would only take DMSA (no LA) and take a dose at the upper limit of what I personally tolerate (200mg every two hours, but that's me), plus Cutler supplements (particularly Vitamin A and Zinc in the amounts discussed in his book, http://www.noamalgam.com/).
http://www.ontohigherlevel.com/articles/


Edited by Manhattan (10/02/10 12:47 PM)

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#59347 - 10/02/10 01:45 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: Bex]
Manhattan Offline
Freshman Member

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4
Loc: NV, USA
Would you please give us an update, everyone? How are you guys doing?

Quote:
I only used the DMSA part of his too, never got onto the ALA because I already felt I was quite well and happy.

@Bex: I have to break some news. You did not "finish" the detox. You merely scratched the surface of the problem.

Quote:
I plummeted later from infections (bacteria/viral) and got worse after wisdom tooth removal. This has not been something I"ve been able to recover from like mercury.

Unfortunately this is merely an illusion. You have _not_ been able to recover from mercury _yet_. You did not use ALA but only DMSA so your body is still full of the mercury even after all these years.
Quote:

It is actually worse. So it's kind of sad that I got so well with years of effort from amalgam removal and detox and got only a relatively small time period of being 'well" and then this happened.

I feel for you. I know what you are going through. Really.
In an attempt to keep toxic metals out of the bloodstream, the body seems to allow cells and the brain to suck it up. When you remove amalgam fillings and chelate with DMSA or DMPS, you only clear the blood and anything outside of cell membranes of mercury. You feel better but you are not detoxed yet.
After some time the body will start dumping mercury which was up to this point trapped within the cell membranes, back into the bloodstream. It happens by itself. But now the chelators are gone. Your liver will be still unable to excrete mercury on its own and so you get poisoned from within all over again.

Now, you could of course repeat your detox using DMSA and get better. The problem is, the brain sucks up mercury at 6x the rate of other organs. Your real problem is in the brain. Sadly, our brains take on the job of a toxic waste dump site in our bodies. Your health problems will likely only get worse over time. The brain cannot detox. It cannot dump the mercury like other organs do. You must detox your brain using Lipoic Acid (BTW, the body makes a small amount of Lipoic Acid by itself, just not enough to detox such huge amounts like those still present in your body).

There is no other way. Lipoic Acid is nature's own perfect chelator, invented by our own bodies for this very purpose. We need to supply it in a pill because we don't make nearly enough of it in a lifetime to detox the huge amounts of heavy metals we carry around in our bodies.

The bottom line is this: You must chelate using ALA for as long as it takes for your symptoms to disappear, plus about a year more. DMSA is only a decoration to maket his process more bearable, but what really heals you is Lipoic Acid.
There is no other way.
The cavities must be taken care of too, but cleaning up the cavities and not doing the ALA detox only sets you up for more trouble later.
Also, if you happen to have dead teeth (a.k.a. "root canals"), get rid of them immediately. If these teeth had ever seen a mercury filling, they will still be full of that stuff.

The brilliant thing about the Cutler Protocol is this:
- it is a two-phase chelation: first the blood (DMSA or DMPS), then the inside of cells and the brain (ALA)
- it keeps the amount of chelators in the blood constant to avoid redistribution (thus every 3hrs for ALA, every 3-4 for DMSA or 8 hrs for DMPS), then lets you take a break to recover
- it lets you use Alpha Lipoic Acid, our bodies' own perfect chelator, to remove mercury from the inside of cells and the brain
- it allows our bodies to make repairs and minimize the damage due to a generous intake of supplements

Good luck! And please give us an update.

http://ontohigherlevel.com/articles


Edited by Manhattan (10/02/10 01:47 PM)

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#59386 - 10/05/10 04:25 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: Manhattan]
Bex Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 4266
Loc: NZ
Quote:
@Bex: I have to break some news. You did not "finish" the detox. You merely scratched the surface of the problem.


Hi Manhatten.

Yes, I realise I never finished the detoxification, because at the time I "felt" well, I was still actively detoxing and getting very strong symptoms which told me there was still significant mercury present.

Quote:
Unfortunately this is merely an illusion. You have _not_ been able to recover from mercury _yet_. You did not use ALA but only DMSA so your body is still full of the mercury even after all these years.


You are correct in that I did not recover from mercury. Perhaps I should have worded it better by stating I was "recovering" slowly from mercury, but had not yet completed chelation.

However, it is no illusion that other serious problems came onboard near blocked/hindered my detox ability, and severely lowed my immunity, so that responses to chelation became almost non existent, even with high dosing (and this includes ALA).

Im battling a parasitic infection which becomes alot worse upon supplementation including ALA. parasites are also difficult to test for and results are not always accurate (similar to mercury testing). parasite cleansing is helping, but not killing them. I am unable at this time to take supplements at all, including ALA. I can only cope on parasite cleanses.

It is not ok for me to feed the problem, because the symptoms are distressing and rather serious. I am unsure how long I will have to cleanse for, but so far I have to "live" on this parasite clense in order to feel any relief.

Quote:
I feel for you. I know what you are going through. Really.
In an attempt to keep toxic metals out of the bloodstream, the body seems to allow cells and the brain to suck it up. When you remove amalgam fillings and chelate with DMSA or DMPS, you only clear the blood and anything outside of cell membranes of mercury. You feel better but you are not detoxed yet.
After some time the body will start dumping mercury which was up to this point trapped within the cell membranes, back into the bloodstream. It happens by itself. But now the chelators are gone. Your liver will be still unable to excrete mercury on its own and so you get poisoned from within all over again.

Now, you could of course repeat your detox using DMSA and get better. The problem is, the brain sucks up mercury at 6x the rate of other organs. Your real problem is in the brain. Sadly, our brains take on the job of a toxic waste dump site in our bodies. Your health problems will likely only get worse over time. The brain cannot detox. It cannot dump the mercury like other organs do. You must detox your brain using Lipoic Acid (BTW, the body makes a small amount of Lipoic Acid by itself, just not enough to detox such huge amounts like those still present in your body).

There is no other way. Lipoic Acid is nature's own perfect chelator, invented by our own bodies for this very purpose. We need to supply it in a pill because we don't make nearly enough of it in a lifetime to detox the huge amounts of heavy metals we carry around in our bodies.

The bottom line is this: You must chelate using ALA for as long as it takes for your symptoms to disappear, plus about a year more. DMSA is only a decoration to maket his process more bearable, but what really heals you is Lipoic Acid.
There is no other way.
The cavities must be taken care of too, but cleaning up the cavities and not doing the ALA detox only sets you up for more trouble later.
Also, if you happen to have dead teeth (a.k.a. "root canals"), get rid of them immediately. If these teeth had ever seen a mercury filling, they will still be full of that stuff.

The brilliant thing about the Cutler Protocol is this:
- it is a two-phase chelation: first the blood (DMSA or DMPS), then the inside of cells and the brain (ALA)
- it keeps the amount of chelators in the blood constant to avoid redistribution (thus every 3hrs for ALA, every 3-4 for DMSA or 8 hrs for DMPS), then lets you take a break to recover
- it lets you use Alpha Lipoic Acid, our bodies' own perfect chelator, to remove mercury from the inside of cells and the brain
- it allows our bodies to make repairs and minimize the damage due to a generous intake of supplements

Good luck! And please give us an update.


Thanks and I can see you're very knowledgeable about this method of chelating and the problem of mercury stored in the organs/brain.

I do not respond to DMSA anymore either by the way, so DMSA does nothing. ALA does not appear to either, but I have not been able to continue with it due to this infection and please understand this parasitic infection has been distressing and very difficult for me. Feeding it further has produced awful backlashes for me and I'm barely coping as it is. Cleansing helps, but has not gotten rid of it. This may mean eventually having to get strong medication/drugs to deal with it, but the problem of that is, you should know what kind of parasite it is so that it can be effectively dealt with. That is an issue when testing can produce false negatives, and the type of parasites tested for may not be the ones you have.

But yes, of course, I would be using ALA! I am well aware there is underlying mercury still present, even if I cannot get symptoms/results from using it, which maybe indicative of my body not responding properly to detox efforts. However, Andy Cutler has also mentioned the problem of cavitations in the jawbone which can block/hinder progress. This too maybe part of the problem. Diagnosis is not easy for this and neither is treatment. So I am honestly just doing the little bit I can to keep going.

I still have bottles of unopened ALA in the cupboard which I have been wanting to use, yet at this time, cannot do so. It is horrible to consider what the long term ramifications of mercury can cause. So yes, I believe that all these things I suffer have their roots in chronic long term mercury toxicity.

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#59559 - 10/14/10 05:22 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: Bex]
JK98 Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 1407
Loc: NYC
This chelation round I added NAC to my ALA+DMSA regimen. I think it is helping the chelation work better. I am taking NAC 600 mg twice a day. I guess ideally it is better to take the NAC every 6 hours which is its half life, however I don't know how well I would tolerate 4 capsules a day. I guess for my next chelation round I might try 3 capsules a day.

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#59598 - 10/16/10 05:25 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: bfree]
nate Offline
Freshman Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 2
Hi, I am new to this site.
Am looking into removing my amalgam fillings by a biological dentist.

Does anyone have recommendations of manufacturers of DMSA and ALA? How are the ones from Whole Foods Store (organic)?
Since they are not FDA approved or regulated, I assume they are not all created equally, depending on the manufacturer.

Also, which lab is recommended for hair testing for heavy metal/mercury toxicity? I live in the LA area.

Thanks for any information,
Nate

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#59601 - 10/17/10 09:01 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: nate]
JK98 Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 1407
Loc: NYC
ALA is made by many vitamin companies. The problem is that only a few brands make 50 mg tablets or capsules. Larger sized tablets or capsules are easy to find.

Over the counter DMSA is available from a few sources. Many use Captomer(DMSA made by Thorne Labs) or DMSA made by VRP. VRP is the only company I know of that has 25mg ALA capsules. The other makers make only 100 mg and/or 250 mg capsules. I have no idea if Whole Foods sells DMSA. They probably sell ALA though. Most people buy DMSA over the net since few stores sell it. Prescription DMSA(Chemet) probably costs around $3 per 100 mg capsule, vs around 85 cents for over the counter DMSA. Some people have good prescription insurance coverage so their best option is to get prescription DMSA.

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#59629 - 10/18/10 06:08 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: JK98]
nate Offline
Freshman Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 2
Thank you for the info

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#59992 - 11/06/10 09:04 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: nate]
JK98 Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 1407
Loc: NYC
"VRP is the only company I know of that has 25mg ALA capsules. The other makers make only 100 mg and/or 250 mg capsules."

OOps! I meant to say DMSA.

For 25 mg ALA, I think Kirkman is the only maker.

For 25 mg DMSA, AFAIK VRP is the place.

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#60311 - 11/28/10 12:44 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: JK98]
cmlyon Offline

Graduate Member

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 115
Bex, what sort of testing have you done for parasites and how do you know you have them? Have you sone great smokies? I have two nasty parasites that are hard to detect and were found by sending 6 stool samples, have you done the 6 sample stool test? Or is it 9. Also, what parasite cleansing are you doing? Even humaworm say i should do the 4 antibiotic treatment and that thier herbs arent enough.

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#60339 - 11/30/10 03:37 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: cmlyon]
Bex Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 4266
Loc: NZ
Hi Cmlyon, I don't know 100% if I do, I can only go by my symptoms, my instincts and the reactions I suddenly had to a parasite cleanse that seemed to indicate strong die off response, plus an improvement that followed. If I go off the parasite cleanse, things get worse and continue to get worse until I get back on it. So I'm dependent on it now.

I have not done great smokies, but a test here in nz at pathlab. I think it was one or two samples taken. Tested for faecal parasitology and showed negative results for ova, cysts or parasites. Negative for Cryptosporidium, EIA, Giardia EIA, Entamoba Histolytica EIA and apparently no other parasite antigens detected.

My doctor however did her "kinseology" on me and reckoned I indeed had them (though I'm skeptical on some of the stuff she does). I do believe I have them.

I can understand humaworm saying what they said - because no parasite cleanse has been able to eradicate the problem for me. Only help ease it somewhat. But they have seemed to adapted quite well and it's harder now to get them under any control at all. I'm on a strong one too and a good one. It's by Malcolm Harker - "Verm Ez" and the ingredients are the following:

Green Walnut
Artemisia
Eugenol (ether of Clove Oil)
Cayenne
thyme
Carrageen
licorice
Ginger
Celtic seasalt
'Lugols' organic iodine
Jojoba Oil
Vitamin E
U.V. light-treated rainwater

Contains NO: sugar, honey, alcohol or preservatives.


I am unable, so far, to take any other form of supplementation unless it's parasite cleanses. Vitamins/minerals/probiotics etc all feed the problem for some bizzare reason. Apparently there are some particular parasites (protozoa), that can feed on all those things, even good bacteria. Not all, but some do. My experience appears to show that mine consume all those things that I've tried to take to help supplement my diet.

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#60478 - 12/07/10 02:07 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: Bex]
cmlyon Offline

Graduate Member

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 115
You might want to consider looking at the site badbugs.org i had the same things happen as youve described. Humaworm no longer working and have loads of food inyolerances. I found that i became progressively less tolerant of things that used to help me like sauerkraut, herbs etc. Im now down to 8 tolerable foods. The two parasites i have are omebas. They are single cell organisms and hard to detect and eradicate apparently, hence the 4 antibiotic regime ive been presribed.

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#60490 - 12/07/10 07:45 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: cmlyon]
Bex Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 4266
Loc: NZ
Thanks cmlyon. I'll take a look. I'm interested to hear how you go with the 4 antibiotic regime. I have had antibiotics before, years ago. My candida is 10 times worse than what it was, which I attribute to them. I haven't found probiotics to help me either. So I'm really nervous about taking antibiotis of any kind again. But I may have little choice with this darned parasite problem, since it's not being eradicated by cleansing. Though helped 'somewhat'.

I have also given up eating any pork. I can't be certain the pork is why I got this parasite, or has been making things worse, but I've given it up anyway. I hear it can be pretty notorious for parasties and things. I note that I do feel drugged and tired after consuming pork, so I have to wonder if it was doing me much good anyway.

Please keep me posted on the antibiotics and what happens!

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#60493 - 12/07/10 11:59 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: Bex]
cmlyon Offline

Graduate Member

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 115
Yes im extremely nervous about antibiotics. I really dont know if its the right thing to do or not. I keep hearing from toooo many people that antibiotics have made them worse. Did your food intolerances get worse after anti b's ?

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#60494 - 12/08/10 12:38 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: cmlyon]
Bex Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 4266
Loc: NZ
Not sure about food intolerances as such, but recovery time after cheating on diet used to only take me a day or two, now it takes up to 2 months or more and basically I'm just much weaker and have a far greater issue with candida, so in that respect my diet has become more restricted. Not so much allergy wise, but because of yeast. And I can't seem to get back to how I was. So yeah, I'm really nervous about antibiotics now.

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#60495 - 12/08/10 01:32 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: Bex]
cmlyon Offline

Graduate Member

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 115
Hmm, not good. Some of us seem to be in the really complicated box which makes it so hard to chelate etc. Are you sulfur intolerant? Are you able to chelate?

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#60496 - 12/08/10 01:35 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: cmlyon]
cmlyon Offline

Graduate Member

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 115
Forgot to ask, Have you done colon cleamsing? parasites love to take up residence in the intestines. Getting mucous out is very beneficial. I did a colonic which helped a lot until i ate bread with a bit of yeast/ sugar which really clogged me up again.

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#60497 - 12/08/10 03:43 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: cmlyon]
Bex Offline

Master Elite Member
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Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 4266
Loc: NZ
I don't appear to be sulfur intolerant. I was at onetime during my early stages of mercury toxicity though and I'd get very strong symptoms after eating high sulfur foods or taking supplements. These days I don't get any reactions.

I haven't done colon cleansing no, though the parasite cleanse I'm taking is supposed to have herbs included that help with that as well as control/kill parasites.

I hear that they can be helpful yes, but doing them too often can be a problem too. I guess it's something that maybe good to do every so often.

Right now I'm on the parasite cleanse and doing chelation at the sametime (ALA). I seem able to chelate at the moment (touch wood). I've only just tried another round after doing nothing for so long. I'm on 100 mg of ALA every 3 hours (every 4 hours at night so I can get more sleep). I go back to every 3 hours during the day. Apart from flaring up of yeast and parasites, as I'm getting with any supplement I take these days, I'm coping "ok", just tiredness and aching, which is not abnormal when chelating. I'm just trying to get a round in here and there. Low doses don't seem to do much. I prefer to feel like something is happening. I can tolerate a certain amount of symptoms, especially if I feel that it means something is happening.

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#60528 - 12/09/10 09:54 PM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: Bex]
cmlyon Offline

Graduate Member

Registered: 01/02/08
Posts: 115
Thats great bex, real glad you are able to chelate. How many rounds have you done all up?

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#60529 - 12/10/10 12:30 AM Re: Does Andy Cutler's Protocol Really Work? [Re: cmlyon]
JK98 Offline

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Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 1407
Loc: NYC
Bex, why aren't you using DMSA together with the ALA? ALA works much better when taken with DMSA. The side effects from the ALA are also much less when DMSA is taken with it.




Now I am in the middle of a round using 75 mg DMSA and 100 mg ALA per dose. Last year I did a number of rounds using 62 mg DMSA and 200 mg ALA. my muscle ache is much worse now, so I decided to try a lower dosage of ALA.

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